Kathryn (00:50)
Welcome to I Scream, You Scream your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories, mysteries, and paranormal perplexities. My name's Kathryn.
Gina (00:58)
I'm Gina.
Kathryn (00:59)
And for the month of September, we are telling each other stories about axe murders while we eat praline flavored ice cream. If you already know us, welcome back. And if you want more from us each month, go on over and join us on Patreon. This episode is sponsored by Clobear Money Coach. If you're ready to start investing, but unsure exactly how to get started, visit getlazynow.com. Grab a spoon and let's dig in. And I
Actually have big big news this week.
Gina (01:29)
What's your big news?
Kathryn (01:30)
I have praline ice cream.
Gina (01:33)
Tell me more.
Kathryn (01:34)
I would love to tell you huge, ginormous, emphatic shout out to our listener, Jen, who emailed us. Did you see this come through? Okay.
Gina (01:45)
No, no.
Kathryn (01:47)
So apparently, Bluebell ice cream makes a praline ice cream. It's called pecan pralines and cream, or probably pecan pralines and cream. Sorry, I'm a northerner.
Gina (02:01)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (02:01)
but
our listener Jen emailed us to let us know this exists. so
Gina (02:06)
yeah.
Kathryn (02:07)
they yeah, they had a little like find a store that sells us thing. No stores near me sell this. So I had to buy it online. But
Gina (02:18)
Ha ha ha.
Kathryn (02:19)
they have a minimum you can purchase online. So I had to spend like 85 bucks worth of ice cream in order to get this.
I'm set for the rest of the year. I I I got all
Gina (02:33)
Hey.
Kathryn (02:34)
the what I'm doing for the rest of the year. I like mapped it out ahead of time. So
Gina (02:39)
wow.
Kathryn (02:39)
still not super cheap, but yeah, I'm excited to try it. What do you have?
Gina (02:43)
I'm
so exc wow, that's well, that's amazing, Jen. did not see your email. So I have vanilla ice cream with a piece of chocolate on it.
Kathryn (02:53)
That's something. I don't know,
Gina (02:55)
Yeah.
Kathryn (02:55)
do they have Bluebell in the UK?
Gina (02:57)
I don't actually think that they do. I have not s I haven't seen
Kathryn (02:59)
I don't think they do.
Gina (03:01)
it.
Kathryn (03:04)
That's that's a fiver right there. This is bomb as hell. Yeah, this is good.
Damn, this is good. I put I did put I have that Tarani chocolate caramel sauce and I put that on top of it.
Gina (03:22)
Damn
Is Phil gonna be allowed to eat some? 'Cause he's a big pecan ice cream guy, isn't he?
Kathryn (03:27)
that just depends on how much I need for the rest of the month. Maybe I'll just need everything that's in there. I don't know. I don't know yet.
Gina (03:35)
I mean if it's a five, you need every drop.
Kathryn (03:37)
Yeah, by the taste of this, does not seem like he's gonna get any.
Gina (03:40)
I don't think I've ever actually had Blue Bell ice cream, now that I think about it.
Kathryn (03:43)
I
definitely have not.
think there's something called maybe it's like blue bonnet what's blue bonnet? What's that?
'Cause I feel like when we were little we got b ice cream blue ribbon, maybe? I don't know.
Gina (03:54)
That sounds familiar.
Pap's blue ribbon, that's what I'm thinking about. Good old PBR.
Kathryn (03:58)
Not that one. Didn't
I did not have that when I was little.
Gina (04:03)
You know, when you're six and your parents give you your first PBR. A blue bonnet is a type
Kathryn (04:06)
I
Gina (04:08)
of flower, apparently.
Kathryn (04:09)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (04:10)
And so is bluebell. Yeah.
Kathryn (04:11)
Blue bell? Maybe it was a blue bell.
Gina (04:14)
Fun fact, it is illegal to pick wild bluebells here in the UK.
Kathryn (04:19)
is it? Are they like protected or whatever?
Gina (04:20)
they
are protected. And if you are caught doing so, as one influencer whose name I can't remember was, he was sent like a let's cease and desist letter
for Which like I know ecologically, like it's important that people don't do it, but it is funny to get a letter from the government telling you to stop picking flowers. It's just f situationally funny.
Kathryn (04:43)
It's like
straight anti whimsy.
Gina (04:47)
The government's so anti-wimsy, dude. They won't let us frolic. They won't let us giggle.
Kathryn (04:49)
The government does not want.
Gina (04:55)
yeah. I'm real relieved to be back on my
normal microphone this week. Thank you very much. I
Kathryn (04:59)
Yes, you sound great. Yeah.
Gina (05:02)
was d working on the episode where I was away and my god, didn't realize I sounded like that, so thanks for putting up with it.
Kathryn (05:11)
It was one of those things, as soon as I went into the edit, you sounded so different from what I could hear on here. You know what I mean? Cause I was
Gina (05:19)
Okay. Yeah.
Kathryn (05:20)
just like, I couldn't I mean you didn't it was very clear you were on a different microphone, but as soon as I went in there, I was like, no. Whoopsie.
Gina (05:30)
I can hear dogs barking and roosters crowing
and a man chopping down a tree.
Kathryn (05:35)
One thing that I could hear while you were talking, it was very unfortunate. I could hear the chickens cackling while
Gina (05:44)
Mm.
Kathryn (05:44)
you were talking about the ghost children. And I do remember thinking like this this is an awful irony that like we can't
Gina (05:51)
Mm.
Kathryn (05:52)
move mute mute you for this because you're talking.
Gina (05:56)
I do think I I tried to get rid of my background noise. I think I was mostly successful in it, but I'm not a very technological person, so apologies.
Kathryn (06:05)
You know what? Anyone listening
to this, it didn't dissuade them from coming back. So
it's fine. Welcome back. Thank you for being here.
Gina (06:10)
You're right. Welcome back. And I have another dark story for you this week.
Kathryn (06:17)
I was gonna say, let's jump into this now that we'll be able to actually hear you.
Gina (06:22)
Yeah, so do have a something of a cold open for you today. Ice cream pun not intended. But
Kathryn (06:28)
Yeah.
Gina (06:29)
does get pretty intense real quick, so I will give a content warning beforehand. Heads up, I'm going to be telling a story that includes violence, torture, confinement, and children witnessing horrible, horrible things. Also axe murder.
Kathryn (06:43)
no.
Gina (06:44)
Yeah, this is an intense one.
And here we go, buckle up.
Kathryn (06:49)
Yeah.
Gina (06:49)
In june eighteen twenty eight, a ship called the Mary Russell put out a distress signal. A passing ship saw this and decided to investigate, and they boarded the Mary Russell to see what was going on. Eventually, a man came out of the main cabin to greet them. He introduced himself as the Mary Russell's captain, William Stewart, and he told the other ship's captain, Captain Callender, that
That he desperately needed help. Hence the distress signal. He said that his crew had tried to mutiny and he had been forced to kill them. He took Captain Callendar into the main cabin of the ship, where Callendar saw an absolute bloodbath. There were seven dead bodies, beaten beyond recognition, and it looked like each one was tied to an iron bolt in the floor by their neck.
Callender stared in horror at the scene as Stewart seemed to puff up with pride, and he said, quote, Am I not a valiant little fellow to kill so many men? This is a story about a descent into madness while at sea, which I think is just about one of the scariest things I could possibly imagine.
Kathryn (08:05)
yeah, that's the ocean's already scary enough. We don't need to be losing our minds while we're out in it, you know?
Gina (08:14)
Couldn't agree with you more, so let's just mutually agree to not do that while we're on the ocean together.
Kathryn (08:19)
Okay.
Gina (08:22)
So this story actually begins a few months earlier in February 1828. At the time, the Mary Russell was preparing to take a trip from Cork to the West Indies. It was a trading vessel, and this time it was going to be taking a cargo of mules to Barbados. And mules, as I discovered, is not a synonym for a donkey.
It's what happens when you breed a donkey with a horse.
Kathryn (08:47)
yeah.
Gina (08:48)
Yeah. So that's that. Anyway
Kathryn (08:53)
Sorry, I was just thinking of that because I what's the other one? There's another animal that's similar to a donkey is not actually a donkey. don't know. It doesn't matter. I'll think about this later and awkwardly like
Gina (09:03)
There is another one.
Kathryn (09:04)
text you in the middle of the night about it. Yeah.
Gina (09:06)
I know what you're talking about though, because it I think a mule
comes from a female horse bred with a male donkey, and when the inverse is true, it's something else, and I can't remember yeah,
Kathryn (09:14)
Is that something else? Okay.
Gina (09:16)
it's something I can't remember what it's iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com What happens when What are we talking about right now?
Kathryn (09:18)
Yeah. What's that?
Gina (09:23)
but anyway, yeah, it was gonna be taking a ship full of mules to Barbados. And it needed an experienced captain at the helm in order to do so. Somebody that the ship's investors trusted.
and who sailors respected, which is why they chose Captain William Stewart. At fifty three years old, he was a seasoned sailor and he was a very popular captain, and also a very God fearing man, which in 1828 was very important for business. Ship owners liked him because he was seen as honest and reliable, and crew members really liked him because at a time when flogging was a common punishment on board,
Captain Stewart was a really fair and humane person. He wasn't even a fan of flogging in general as a punishment. Instead, if one of his crew needed to be punished, he preferred to just tie them up, which was infinitely more preferable to the alternative. So he was a really popular guy. He was the man for the job, and luckily for him, when it came time to pick out his crew, there was an excess of talent to choose from.
In Cork at the time, it was the kind of like economic situation, like labor market thing, where there were more able-bodied sailors than there were ships leaving the harbor. I don't know how to put that into words, but there was like too many sailors, not enough ships. So
Kathryn (10:41)
Yeah. Okay.
Gina (10:44)
not only did the Mary Russell wind up getting a great captain and William Stewart, it also got a great crew because he was picking from like the creme de la creme of sailors in Cork.
He selected a man named William Smith to be his first mate. And there's a lot of like Williams and Johns and Jameses in this story, so I'm just gonna call everyone by their last name to make it easier. If it gets confusing as I
Kathryn (11:06)
Thank you.
Gina (11:07)
go, please just stop me and ask who's who, because I had to make a little map
Kathryn (11:10)
Okay.
Gina (11:10)
for myself as I was researching this.
Kathryn (11:12)
Jesus, okay.
Gina (11:13)
Anyway, so Captain Stewart and his first mate, Smith, had sailed together before, and they trusted each other, there was already a rapport there. So again, it was like a pretty easy decision. And when the Mary Russell set sail for Barbados in February, they were joined by 11 others for a total of 13 people on board, including some pretty young kids. They had three ship apprentices who were all boys ranging in age from 12 to 15.
And they also had one passenger, an 11-year-old boy named Tommy Hammond. Tommy's dad was a friend of Captain Stewart's, and Tommy was allowed on board as a passenger as like a favor, essentially. He was kind of like a sick kid, and this was at the time where, like, if you were sick, a very common order would be like to get better air. And so his parents were like, take him out to sea. He'll get some nice fresh air there. He'll get some nice warm air in Barbados. It'll help with his health.
Kathryn (12:09)
Yeah.
Gina (12:10)
the voyage to Barbados was a piece of cake, all things considered. they had gorgeous blue skies, the weather got warmer and warmer the further south they went, and the most experienced sailor on board, who is a man named John Howes, even got some lessons from Captain Stewart about celestial navigation.
It was just like a lovely, easy, camaraderie filled trip.
Kathryn (12:30)
That sounds so
nice. Yeah. That's so quaint.
Gina (12:33)
Yeah.
That it sounds like a wonderful like not a cruise because they
Kathryn (12:37)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (12:37)
were working, but about as easy as a voyage could go.
Kathryn (12:40)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Gina (12:42)
So they arrived in Barbados, they dropped off their cargo of mules, and they reloaded with some animal hides and some sugar to bring back, and they were soon ready to sail back to Cork. And that is when they met a man named James Raynes Raynes was also a ship captain, and
Who had been fired and abandoned on Barbados due to his excessive drinking while on the voyage there.
He was also an Irishman, just like many of those aboard the Mary Russell. And when he learned that Stewart and his crew were heading back to Cork, he started begging Stewart to let him catch a ride, because he had been abandoned, so he had no way home. And at first, Stewart was like, mmm.
No, thank you. Stewart wasn't like a teetotaler or a straight edge, but he was definitely more anti-alcohol than other sailors at the time. And the idea of having someone with a history of alcohol abuse on board a ship that he was in charge of just didn't really appeal to him. Plus, there was a whole extra layer with Raynes also having the rank of captain, because having two captains aboard one ship, even if only one of them is working, could create like this weird power dynamic and just like
be disruptive to the delicate ecosystem of humans being trapped in a confined space for weeks at a time.
Kathryn (13:56)
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm imagining like big trouble coming from that. Cause that's a specific personality trait. Like, yeah.
Gina (14:03)
Mm-hmm.
So Stewart was like, nope, no thank you. but Raynes begged and begged and begged, and when he told Stewart that he had no other way to get back home, Stewart gave in. He was like, Fine, you can come along, just don't cause any problems. And on the 9th of May, 1828, the Mary Russell set sail on their journey home to Cork. To his credit, Raynes did settle in without a fuss.
He didn't seem to assume that just because he was also a captain that he should be treated like one on the Mary Russell. He actually wound up helping the crew with little jobs on the ship here and there that like a captain would never normally do. So he didn't seem to expect any special treatment or deference or anything like that. And he actually seemed to enjoy it because he could let his hair down around the guys a little bit more, and he started getting pretty friendly with the crew and the other men on board pretty fast.
He would shave with them in the morning, he would chat with them, and he would even speak a bit of Irish with them now and then. And just for context, a lot of the crew were Irishmen, and at least one of them didn't speak English very well. He was used to only speaking Irish. And so when that guy was around, Raynes would naturally switch to speaking Irish so he could understand what was being said, and the men would just kind of generally oscillate between the two languages. It's just what you do when you're bilingual, trilingual, whatever. They move between them easily.
But as Raynes settled in with the other men, Captain Stewart seemed to withdraw. After about a week of sailing, it was clear that something was going on with Captain Stewart. He looked unwell, like he hadn't been sleeping, and he started spending like a weird amount of time alone in his cabin. And it's not like the captain is normally, you know, scrubbing the deck with the rest of the men, but he's usually out.
amongst them giving orders and providing guidance, but Stewart was just kind of like keeping to himself, which was weird. But most concerningly, Stewart had told his first mate, Smith, that God had come to him in a dream and warned him that his crew was going to mutiny and kill Stewart in the process.
Kathryn (16:14)
no. Awful.
Gina (16:15)
Yes. And this is coming direct from God, yeah.
Kathryn (16:18)
Yeah, that's bad news when it comes straight from the big guy.
Gina (16:22)
Yeah. he also told Smith that God said that the new passenger Raynes was going to be behind it. So whatever that like weird dynamic was between them, the alcohol thing, the two captains thing, it seemed like it caused something to snap in Stewart's head and he just became aggressively suspicious of Raynes.
Smith, hearing this, was like, Whoa, that's a lot. Maybe we don't have to act on that right away because it's just a dream. Like these are good men, this has been a good and easy voyage. There's no reason to think it was anything but a dream. Like there is no evidence that these men are gonna mutiny. They like you.
But instead of calming the captain down, that only made Stewart look at Smith like, huh, why is he trying so hard to convince me there's not gonna be a mutiny? He must be in on
Kathryn (17:13)
no.
Gina (17:13)
it. And in the days that followed, Stewart started seeing everything as a suspicious act. When he'd overhear Raynes speaking Irish with the crew,
He became convinced they were talking about him because he didn't speak Irish. So he he just assumed it's like that thing where you walk past a group of people who are laughing, and your anxiety is like, they're laughing at me. You know what I mean? Yep. So it was that kind of thing. And he
Kathryn (17:33)
Ugh yes. Awful.
Gina (17:38)
wound up banning speaking Irish on the ship. When one
Kathryn (17:41)
no.
Gina (17:42)
of the men on board misplaced his pocket knife, Stewart was he became like convinced that someone had stolen that pocket knife and was gonna use it as the murder weapon to kill him. And
John Howes, the guy who had gotten celestial navigations from the captain earlier in the voyage, he asked for more lessons, and instead of being like nice about it and teaching him, or even like declining politely, Stewart kind of freaked out, and he was like, you only want to learn celestial navigation so that you don't need me anymore. You just want to replace me so you can kill me, kind of thing.
Kathryn (18:13)
But this was after
he was already like t
Gina (18:17)
Yeah.
Kathryn (18:18)
That's sad.
Gina (18:20)
I know, He started ordering a few of the crew members to sleep in the captain's quarters with him for protection, but despite that, he barely got any sleep, if he did get sleep at all. And on top of that, Stewart also started hoarding weapons, He took a harpoon, he took an axe from the ship's carpenter, he found a crowbar, and he also had this thing called a granes
Which is kind of like a trident looking thing. I had never heard of that before, and I also can't find any
Kathryn (18:50)
Yeah, me either.
Gina (18:51)
pictures of what it looks like. So I'm just gonna call it th the
Kathryn (18:53)
Okay.
Gina (18:54)
trident thingy.
Kathryn (18:55)
I'm imagining like a like a sea pitchfork. I guess that's a trident.
Gina (19:03)
Yes, the sea pitchfork for the stabbing of fishes and such. Yeah, that's exactly what it was. I think. I don't know. Having not seen it, I'll tell you, yes, that's exactly what it was.
Kathryn (19:10)
Probably. iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com
Send us your what is it called?
Gina (19:16)
Granes. G R A N E S.
Kathryn (19:18)
Okay, send us pictures of all your granes out there so
Gina (19:22)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (19:22)
we can see what it is.
Gina (19:25)
But yeah, so he added this mysterious granes weapon to his pile of weapons that he was accumulating. And his paranoia and anxiety kind of grew and grew and grew over a series of days until finally Stewart decided that he'd had enough and he was gonna confront the men on his ship about it. So he called an all hands meeting with everyone on board, where he told them to their faces, I believe you are all planning a mutiny. Like something fishy is up, I'm on to you guys. And his men
were shocked. they were like, what? Like I've we all thought we were having a wonderful and lovely time here. Like, what are you talking about? And so they started trying to calm him down, you know, like, no, we're we're good, the voyage is going really well. We're not trying to overthrow you, everything's fine, like I'm so sorry you thought that. And after an amount of this, you know, it did seem to comfort the captain. He did calm down. And over the next few days, he seemed better. Like it seemed
That they had squashed whatever this was. And so everyone was like, whew, alright, that was weird, strange little blip, but like, we're good, we hashed things out. But a few days later, Stewart's paranoia came back. The captain convinced himself that the men on board were just waiting for him to fall asleep so that they could murder him and take over the ship. And so he stopped sleeping, and that obviously exacerbated his feelings of fear and anxiety.
And he decided that even if he couldn't protect himself against so many men, because he was a kind of a small guy. He was not like a big dude. I think he was like five-eight, which no shade to people who are five-eight, but he just wasn't like a big burly guy. so he knew he couldn't defend himself if it came to like physical blows. And so he was like, All right, I can't protect myself physically from these guys, but I can make it difficult for them to kill me. And so he took all of the ship's navigational instruments, all of their charts, their logbook.
And he chucked him overboard into the water.
Mm-hmm. It's a
Kathryn (21:27)
That's bad. That's real not good.
Gina (21:30)
big deal. It's a very big deal.
Kathryn (21:33)
my god.
Gina (21:33)
because not only were those things absolutely necessary to properly navigate the ship, but also navigation was an extremely specialist skill. It's not like the crew members could just navigate by the stars without all of this equipment. That kind of thing is in the captain's remit.
Because it's really fucking hard to do. That's one of the reasons why Howes had been asking the captain to teach him about celestial navigation, because it was difficult. So, from Stewart's perspective, it was kind of an insurance policy in that Stewart knew what was in this logbook and on these charts and whatnot, but the others didn't. So if they wanted to keep sailing and heading in the right direction, they had to keep Stewart alive, After this, everyone on the ship.
started walking on eggshells. Something was very clearly seriously wrong with the captain, but no one could tell what was wrong or what had caused it. What they did know is that they were in a very dangerous situation. Because out there on the water, the captain was the ultimate power and whatever he says goes, no questions asked. And if the man sitting in that role doesn't like you or suspects you're planning an uprising against him,
You're on a boat and there's nowhere to hide. The captain
Kathryn (22:46)
Yeah.
Gina (22:47)
is judge, jury, and executioner, literally in this case.
Kathryn (22:51)
I keep getting like as you're speaking, I keep getting a little like not to be dramatic, but I feel very claustrophobic and almost like mildly not like nauseated. Only
Gina (23:03)
Yes.
Kathryn (23:04)
from like that this just on a ship. Ugh.
Gina (23:09)
On a ship. And
it it wasn't even a big ship. It was about 80 feet end to end. It was a small ship. Yeah. And there weren't that many people on
Kathryn (23:13)
my god Yikes Oof.
Gina (23:17)
the ship either. There was I think 14 after they picked up Raynes And so you couldn't really hide. Like he was watching everybody. It was
Kathryn (23:24)
Yeah, that's so scary.
Gina (23:26)
very, very scary. And I think what makes it scarier for me is that he was a known and respected captain before this. And so they're watching a
Kathryn (23:33)
Okay. Yeah.
Gina (23:34)
man that they like they know.
They they either know him or they've heard of him, they respect him, like other men on the ship vouch for him, and they're watching this guy start doing these really scary things. And you can imagine the kind of, you know, how scared should we be right now? Like we trust him, but also his actions
Kathryn (23:50)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gina (23:52)
seem really weird. It's like this weird in-between space.
Kathryn (23:55)
This it's
reminding me of a movie, it's very like psychological horror.
Gina (24:00)
Mm, Yeah, this whole story is very like horror movie coded to me. It's yeah, there's
Kathryn (24:04)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gina (24:06)
a couple of parts later where I think we'll we might need to take a break so we can let
Kathryn (24:10)
Okay.
Gina (24:10)
our hearts just beat into the abyss. So
Kathryn (24:13)
Okay.
Gina (24:14)
at this point, tension on the ship was palpable. And it didn't help that any perceived deviation from the ship's normal routines caused Stewart to absolutely spiral.
For example, after about a month and a bit at sea, the first mate, Smith, had to go down into their little storage area a few times to grab oil for his lamp. And Stewart didn't see Smith doing this, but he did hear Smith's footsteps going up and down.
and up and down, and up and down. And Stewart found that to be incredibly suspicious. He convinced himself that Smith had to be up to something. So the next morning, Stewart woke Smith up with a harpoon pointed directly at his chest.
Kathryn (25:03)
My god.
Gina (25:05)
Yeah. He accused Smith of being a mutineer and of plotting to kill him. Smith, who had literally just woken up, was in absolute shock at this. He was baffled. And he was being accused of a very serious crime first thing in the morning. Like that's tough. That was very trivial. That's hard.
Kathryn (25:24)
That's tough. That's
r you know what that is? It's a real tough.
Gina (25:30)
I mean I'm not a morning person, but geez.
Kathryn (25:33)
How incredibly inconvenient.
Gina (25:37)
Yeah, sorry, I could've phrased
Kathryn (25:38)
Mm.
Gina (25:39)
that better. It was really tough.
Kathryn (25:44)
It was super duper tough. Okay, sorry, continue.
Gina (25:49)
So yes,
Smith is having his life threatened by Captain Stewart, and the crew pretty quickly gathered around to see what was going on. The crew tried to calm Stewart down, but it was no use. Stewart started insisting that Smith's hands had to be tied together. Smith protested this, of course, and so did the crew.
But when they were defending Smith, Stewart just like flew into a rage, like face turning purple, spit flying everywhere, pacing back and forth, like scary fly into a rage type stuff. He was scaring his men. And so Smith, who just desperately wanted to keep the peace, was like, you know what, fine. Like if it'll make you feel better, tie me up, but I didn't do anything wrong. And so Smith's hands were bound together.
And Stewart ordered that he be placed in a lazarette. Now I had never heard of a lazarette before, not good. it was
Kathryn (26:44)
Yeah, I don't know what that is.
Gina (26:48)
a very shallow storage space under the floor of the main cabin. So it's not like a cellar, really, it's just like a really, really shallow little storage space where you can keep bits and bobs under the floor on a boat. And Smith, a fully grown man, was squished into it.
Kathryn (27:04)
Yeah, that's a no for meme.
Gina (27:06)
Right. And the small space, combined with his hands being tied together, I'm pretty sure his legs were tied together as well, meant that he was in constant pain. and this lasted for days. At one point he complained that he could barely breathe down there. He started saying, like, I'm going to suffocate and die. And so Stewart had the ship's carpenter drill a little air hole into the floor.
And that little hole is what helped Smith hear what happened next.
Not long after taking Smith captive, Stewart gathered all of the young apprentices together, separate from the rest of the men, and he told them, these 12 to 15 year old boys, that none of the men on board could be trusted. And one by one, Stewart held a pistol to each of their chests and promised that if they betrayed him, he would shoot them dead. These are children.
Kathryn (29:01)
my god.
Gina (29:03)
The boys, of course, were absolutely scared out of their minds, and so they swore up and down that they were loyal to the captain, And then almost right away, it was like Stewart's personality completely 180ed, and he was suddenly like the same friendly, familiar guy that they had gotten to know on the voyage to Barbados. He told the boys that if they stayed loyal to him, they would be rewarded when they got home. He said they would get so much money as to practically make them gentlemen.
Which was a very, very big deal. All they had to do was sign a statement swearing that there was a mutiny on board. Because it was something that Stewart wanted to use as proof later on that there really was a mutiny. And so, of course, under the threat of death, the boys agreed. That day, the weather was perfect for sailing. It was clear outside, there was this nice, gentle breeze, they were making really good time getting back to Cork.
Things went on for a little while, you know, the crew carried on with their work, until one of the apprentices came and called one of the men down to the cabin to see the captain. And then a little while later, they called another man down. And then it turned into a pattern. About every fifteen to twenty minutes, one of the boys would come up, pull one of the men aside, and say that the captain wanted to see him in the cabin. The man would go, and he wouldn't come back.
Soon there were only two men left on the deck, and the next time a boy came up, it was to fetch John Howes, our celestial navigation aficionado from earlier. So he started down the steps into the main cabin to see the captain, and he saw standing at the bottom of the stairs a
Captain Stewart with two pistols pointed directly at him.
Kathryn (30:48)
What the F?
Gina (30:49)
I know. Dude, imagine seeing this on a boat. Like that's and y like the rest of the men around you have just disappeared. It's
Kathryn (30:53)
I'm struggling. I know.
Gina (30:55)
so scary.
Kathryn (30:56)
That's so scary.
Gina (30:58)
Howes somehow kept his cool and he was just like, What do you intend to do with your pistols? And in response, Stewart told him, Like, I know all about your mutiny plan. Like, I know you're gonna betray me, I know you're gonna try and kill me. Howes, realizing that the captain was delusional, raced back onto the deck. Stewart ran after him,
And Howes managed to jump down a different hatch on the ship, and he kind of like scrambled off into the darkness of this little hatch hold thing. Stewart was still on the outside of the hatch, he was on the deck, and he realized that I probably shouldn't jump into the darkness after him because that puts me at a big disadvantage, because he can see me, I can't see him. And so he stayed outside. And he decided that if he couldn't force Howes to surrender,
He could talk him into surrendering. So he started speaking into the hatch. And at first he used threats. And when that didn't work, he made a more emotional appeal. Stewart told Howes that he hadn't slept in days. He was so tired. And he promised that if Howe just surrendered, he wouldn't hurt him. He just needed to tie him up so that he could get some sleep. And so Howes
Who, just like Smith, just wanted the captain to calm down, allowed himself to be tied up. He relented. As for the other men who had disappeared, they were all tied up too. One by one, as they had entered the cabin, the captain had held them at gunpoint and threatened to shoot them if they didn't allow themselves to be tied up.
And I will say again, Stewart was known for tying men up as an alternative to flogging. This was not like some wild, outlandish thing he was doing. It was just a form of punishment while on board. And so these men had no reason to believe that they would be harmed any further than that. Like this was supposed to be as far as it was supposed to be able to go. You know what I mean?
Kathryn (32:53)
Yeah.
Gina (32:54)
Unfortunately, the three apprentices and the 11-year-old passenger Tommy saw all of this happen. they were like in the cabin while the men were being tied up. They were completely powerless to do anything but watch as these men were threatened
at gunpoint. Stewart actually forced the apprentices to help him reposition the men a little bit. So these boys were forced to like drag these men around on the boat.
And eventually, every single person on board, except for the apprentices, and the eleven year old Tommy, were all tied up. So like the only free grown-up on the ship is this captain who is clearly mentally
Kathryn (33:35)
my god.
Gina (33:36)
unwell. And yet that night the captain still couldn't sleep. The next morning, the captain decided that his insomnia was because the men weren't tied up securely enough.
And so he took these, they're they're called like iron bolts, but they're described more as like staples,
Kathryn (33:54)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (33:55)
like big massive staples, and he drove them into the floor of the cabin where all the men were tied up. And then using more rope, he tied each of the men to these bolts by their necks. And
Kathryn (34:07)
Huh.
Gina (34:07)
he did this using nooses so that if the men like moved around too much or tried to get away, they would strangle themselves.
Kathryn (34:15)
This is so upsetting. I'm just like so uncomfortable right now.
That's just a lot. Like this would be astonishing and scary if this was happening anywhere, but the fact that it's on a boat is just really fucking me up.
Gina (34:30)
There's no way out. There's no escape. Yep.
Kathryn (34:31)
There's nowhere to go. Yeah.
Gina (34:33)
And the only people who might be able to save you are kids.
Kathryn (34:37)
Well
and that's the thing, like and what are the kids gonna do? They can't do anything, yeah.
Gina (34:40)
Right, yeah. They're
terrified and they don't know. Like you can't expect an eleven
Kathryn (34:45)
Yeah.
Gina (34:45)
year old to be making decisions about winter whether or not there really is a mutiny on board. Like how do they know that the captain's
Kathryn (34:50)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (34:51)
not in his right mind?
Kathryn (34:52)
Yeah. Well that's what's wild. Like there literally is, but they're the ones doing it.
Gina (34:57)
Mm. Yep.
Kathryn (34:59)
That's wild. Yeah.
Gina (35:00)
I know.
And the tying by the neck thing, that really ugh,
Kathryn (35:04)
Yeah.
Gina (35:05)
yeah, that freaks me out. The only one who wasn't tied up that way was John Howes. He was kept in a separate part of the ship because Captain Stewart, he didn't want to put Howes with the rest of the men, because Howes was like very outspoken. And so I think Stewart was afraid that if he put Howes with the other men, they would find a way to like escape, or Howes would like talk them into resisting more or something. So he kept him separate.
And when the captain was done tying the men up in the main cabin, he went to pay Howes a little visit in that other area of the ship, and he brought his apprentices with him. By this point he had given each of the boys a weapon, as a reminder, they are twelve, thirteen, and fifteen. One of them had a harpoon, one of them was given an axe, and the other one had that trident thingy,
Almost immediately upon entering the area where Howes was being kept, Stewart noticed that the ropes that were binding him were looser than they had been the previous night. Because you see, while the captain was supposed to be sleeping, Howes had decided that he wasn't really here for all of this like tying people up business, mainly because he found it just aggressively uncomfortable.
And so throughout the night, he had been kind of wiggling around, trying to loosen the ropes. And he had succeeded in, I think he got one of his hands free, but his legs were still tied. Stewart demanded that Howes let him retie the ropes, and Howes was like, Absolutely the hell not, I'm not doing that. Two men started shouting at each other, they started arguing, and suddenly Stewart had his pistol out and he was firing shots at Howes. The first shot missed.
The second one caught Howes in the hand and hit his thumb, and his third shot grazed his side. And this is when Howes did something that I think is incredibly smart and quick thinking, in that he faked his own death.
Kathryn (37:00)
Yes. Man, I've thought of this so many times. The only way
Gina (37:04)
Mm.
Kathryn (37:04)
I will ever survive anything is if I just drop dead.
don't tell anyone this, but that is my plan in case of an emergency. Just fake dead.
Gina (37:12)
I have bad news about the nature of podcasts.
Kathryn (37:15)
I literally used to do that when I was little. I would like practice. So I would just like see how long I could hold my breath and like pick a focal point and just be like and like pretend I was dead. Yeah.
You gotta practice.
Gina (37:29)
I used to
I used to do that in front of my dogs when I was a kid to be like, my dogs try and save me if they think I'm dying and they never cared. They would just come sniffing over.
Kathryn (37:33)
To see what they would do. No, never. Yeah.
Never.
Gina (37:41)
I I did that
but with well, I wasn't pretending to be dead, I was pretending to be kidnapped. I used to hide in like clothes
Kathryn (37:47)
yeah.
Gina (37:47)
racks at stores and my mom had to give me a talking to one time. I was one of those, yeah.
Kathryn (37:50)
god, you were one of those. Yeah. That actually is scary because like
you actually could get kidnapped. That happened to me
while I was nannying. Yeah.
Gina (38:02)
One of the kids did that.
Kathryn (38:03)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. she like but I don't think she knew what she did. She wasn't like trying to be ordinary.
She saw the racks and literally just went, Let's play hide and seek and by the time I turned to look
Gina (38:15)
O
Kathryn (38:16)
at her to say no, she was gone. She had fled. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She wasn't trying to be a butt, but yeah.
Gina (38:19)
Okay. It was not yeah, okay. Yeah. I well
I was trying to be a butt because I knew it pissed my mom off and that's why I did it. But I d like as an adult, you know, that's horrendous and
Kathryn (38:28)
Yeah.
Gina (38:31)
I I know I know better now as a thirty year old I would never do that. But
Kathryn (38:36)
Yeah.
Gina (38:37)
when you're six. Or when you're Howes on a ship and you just got shot at by your crazy captain. So
Kathryn (38:41)
Yeah. Exactly. It's the same thing.
Gina (38:46)
like I said, the bullet only grazed his side, but Stewart didn't know that. He just saw like blood on Howes' abdomen. And so Howes laid back and was like, you've got me. Like I'm dying you know, more convincing than that, but I'm going to die now, kind of thing. And he went still and he went quiet for long enough until Stewart turned to the apprentices and was like, Yeah, this guy is dead. Like Howes is dead. He's done. And right at that moment
Another ship appeared on the horizon. Stewart saw this and he was elated. He was like, my gosh, yay, they can help me with this like mutiny thing that I've convinced myself is happening. Hooray! So he ordered one of the apprentices to go as fast as he could and fly the distress signal.
And while Stewart was distracted by this ship, Howes had time to examine his wounds because he also didn't know how bad his wounds were. He was smart enough to fake dying, but he didn't know if he was actually gonna die or not. And this gave him enough time to kind of check himself out and be like, okay, no, like I'm hurt, but these are not mortal wounds. I have a chance of getting out of this if I play my cards right. The ship that was sailing in the Mary Russell's direction wound up veering away. It didn't come to anyone's rescue.
We don't know why. We think that like they might have thought it was a pirate ship flying a decoy distress signal or something like that. We just don't know. But we do know that eventually Stewart like gave up on trying to flag this ship down and he went back to the area where Howe's. And he noticed that one of Howe's hands had moved.
He fired at him again, this time he hit Howes in the thigh. And as Stewart started reloading his pistols, because this is 1828, it takes a while to reload a pistol, Howes sprang into action. And he used his free hand to like try and rush to untie his other hand and untie his legs as quick as he could before Stewart could reload. And by the time Stewart was ready to shoot again, Howes had managed to hide behind some cargo. At this point, Stewart
Turned to the boys because the apprentices were all still there, and he demanded that they use their weapons to attack Howes. The boys started crying because they were scared and they liked Howes. They had like gotten to know him and become friends with him on the trip to Barbados. So they were begging Stewart, like, please don't make us do this. Like, we really don't want to do this. And in the middle of this, Howes took the opportunity to rush forward and start attacking the captain.
He managed to get Stewart to the ground, he had his knee on his chest, but he hesitated. Because Howes realized that if he killed the captain in this moment, he would definitely be labeled a mutineer when they got to port, and he would be hung.
Kathryn (41:31)
my
god. This is so dramatic. I hate this so much. What the fuck? Ugh.
Gina (41:34)
I know Ugh And
in that moment of hesitation, one of the boys hit House on the head with an axe.
It was not a fatal blow, House did not die, but it obviously hurt him a lot. There was blood everywhere, and this caused House to release the captain and he ran away into the cargo hold.
Around this time, another ship started sailing towards the Mary Russell, and once again Stewart got really excited about it, and he became completely fixated on this ship instead of following Howes. But just like the last one, it veered away. And that, the second ship failing to rescue him, caused Stewart to snap for good. Stewart started thinking that surely if the men on board were innocent, God would have saved them.
Already. But God hadn't saved them, therefore they were guilty of mutiny, and therefore the only fitting punishment was death.
He put down his pistols, he picked up the crowbar, and he told the apprentices to follow him. He entered into the cabin where his men were bound, and where eleven-year-old Tommy was still in bed, too terrified to move. He kept like hiding his head under the covers in like a if you can't see me, you can't hurt me kind of way.
And as Stewart entered the cabin, he said, The curse of God is on you all.
Stewart lifted the crowbar, and one by one he began smashing it into his men's heads, saving Raynes for last.
And when he was done with the crowbar, he picked up the axe and attacked each men man again just to make sure none of them survived.
Seven people ultimately died William Swanson, James Morley John Cramer Francis Sullivan, John Keating, Timothy Connell, and James Raynes. Meanwhile, Smith was still under the floorboards, and he had heard everything. Helpless to protect himself, all he could do was lie there as Stewart picked up the crowbar.
and started attacking the air hole that they had drilled for him to try and get at Smith. and when the crowbar didn't work,
Kathryn (43:51)
my god that's horrific.
Gina (43:55)
he used the harpoon. And then he used the axe until he declared that Smith was dead.
Kathryn (44:02)
Yikes.
Gina (44:03)
Fucking terrifying.
After this, Stewart's personality seemed to once again completely change. He got excited, he got really animated, he started to get like really triumphant and cocky seeming. He ordered one of the apprentices to bring him meat and grog. And in the very same room with the bodies of his victims, he ate, drank, and smoked his pipe. Because he was proud of himself. According to him, he had saved not only himself and the boys on board, but he had also saved the ship's cargo.
So he was like, job well
Kathryn (44:36)
Yeah.
Gina (44:37)
done, I'm brilliant. He also started bragging to these poor boys and he pointed out, you know, look how steady my hands are. And he said, quote, I think no more of killing them than if they were dogs.
Kathryn (44:51)
my god, can you imagine being those boys? That would be the most terrifying experience. Cause they're still trapped and there's nothing I just my god.
you can't help but think, like, if he's just gonna come for you next, like there was no reason for him to go after the
Gina (45:08)
Right.
Kathryn (45:10)
men. Ugh.
Gina (45:11)
Mm-hmm. And
two of these boys, the two so the 15-year-old was like the senior apprentice. And the other
Kathryn (45:17)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (45:18)
two, the twelve I think they were twelve and thirteen, this was their first like long voyage. This was kind of like their trial,
Kathryn (45:21)
Hmm. no.
Gina (45:25)
trial run to see if they like would be accepted as apprentices. And so this is like their first real experience on board a ship like this.
Kathryn (45:32)
God.
Gina (45:34)
And also Tommy, too, like this is a family friend that he's watching do like he's known this man probably all of his life watching him do this stuff.
Kathryn (45:42)
yeah Ew That's so scary.
Gina (45:44)
Mm-hmm. Terrifying, so fucking sad.
So Stewart was sitting there on the pedestal of his own making, being so proud of himself, but he was still conscious that Howes was loose on the ship and could come for him at any moment. And so that night when he went to sleep, he barricaded the way into his room. But what he didn't know is that it wasn't just Howes he needed to worry about.
Because beneath the floorboards, Smith had survived.
He had been laying in the same area as a bunch of animal hides. And so when Stewart thought he was stabbing Smith, he was actually stabbing the animal hides. So he didn't wind up killing him. Smith didn't walk away unscathed. Like he was very seriously injured. He lost an eye and he had really bad injuries to his head and his shoulder. But he didn't die. And he was there listening when Stewart was bragging to these children about.
Murders that he had committed, and Smith knew that he had to get out. Like he was full of adrenaline already, but
Kathryn (46:48)
Yeah.
Gina (46:48)
this really was like, if I'm going to survive, I need to get out of here now. He was, however, still stuck under the floor. And so he waited until he heard the captain go to his cabin for the night. He sent the apprentices to bed, and then he waited a little bit longer, just to be sure, and then he struggled like absolute hell to free himself.
He somehow managed to reach a pocket knife that he had on him and he was able to cut the ties on his hands and his legs. And slowly he crawled out of the lazarette and he made his way into the cargo hold, where he found, of course, Howes, who was still hiding down there. The two men exchanged the information they had. Howes told Smith about Stewart attacking him, and Smith shared what happened to the rest of the men, and they spent the rest of the night holed up in cargo.
praying that they would make it home.
Kathryn (47:43)
I don't understand how they could possibly hide on a ship. You know what I'm saying? Like I I I know they are, but I'm just like, where are they that this crazy captain can't even at least hear them or something? You know what I mean?
Gina (48:00)
Yeah. I think part of it from what I read,
Kathryn (48:01)
I don't know. It's so alarming.
Gina (48:04)
part of it was that the captain obviously was not well, and so he didn't
Kathryn (48:08)
Right.
Gina (48:09)
look for like he wasn't being logical and saying, I should go go look
Kathryn (48:12)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (48:12)
for this person. He just didn't seem to look that hard. And also, while Howes was in the cargo hold, he managed to fashion like kind of a little hiding place, like a little hidey hole for himself,
And they also had
a
Kathryn (48:22)
Okay.
Gina (48:23)
lot.
of cargo. So it's not like he was behiding hiding behind one box. There were like stacks and stacks and sta like it would take a while to search everything. You know what I mean?
Kathryn (48:31)
Yeah, I guess that's true. I'm just a I'm I don't frequent a lot of like seventeenth century ships. So I just like my brain can't because I think about
Gina (48:38)
Ha ha ha
Kathryn (48:41)
that here, like not to like whatever, but I'm like, if anyone ever broke into this house it's a whole ass house. And I'm like, I don't know if there's anywhere to hide around here. So on a ship out at sea,
I just can't I can't fathom that.
Gina (48:58)
Yeah, I don't think they were very well hidden, but they also weren't very well looked for. I think that's all that's just what it comes down to. Yeah, yeah.
Kathryn (49:01)
Yeah. Yeah. It's the combo of things. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense.
Yeah, for sure.
Gina (49:09)
The next morning, Stewart woke up to see that a broken watch that he had in his cabin had suddenly started working again. And so he just assumed that like one of the apprentices, one of the boys, must have fixed it. And he thought about that. And he thought about how smart someone has to be to fix a watch. And he thought about how a boy that's smart enough to fix a watch like that.
Probably shouldn't be trusted.
Kathryn (49:36)
no.
Gina (49:37)
And so he found the boys, he took their weapons away, and he tied them up. All except for Tommy Hammond, his friend's son, who begged the captain not to kill the boys. In response, Stewart handed Tommy a gun and said that if he did hurt the apprentices, Tommy could just shoot him.
And that is when Captain Callender's voice sounded from outside. We're back at the beginning of the episode. Rescue has come.
So Captain Callend's ship, who is the person who boarded
Kathryn (50:15)
Mm.
Gina (50:16)
the Mary Russell at the beginning of the episode, they had seen the
Kathryn (50:19)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (50:19)
Mary Russell flying the distress signal, and so they had come to the rescue. Because Captain Callendar, and Captain Stewart had actually met while they were in Barbados. They knew each other. And so Captain Callendar recognized what the Mary Russell looked like. And he was like, okay, well, I need to see what's going on with like my new friend Captain Stewart.
So Stewart gave his account of what happened to Captain Callendar, who could tell that something wasn't quite right. He wasn't sure though, because like you never know, he didn't know Captain Stewart that well, so maybe
Kathryn (50:50)
Yeah.
Gina (50:50)
he was just like an anxious person. and so, like, whatever, Captain Callendar's here to help however he can. He saw the three apprentices and he saw little Tommy, and he said that they would take the boys on his ship, the Mary Stubbs. So
Great, those boys are getting off the Mary Russell, they're getting away from Captain Stewart. And when Stewart told Callendar that Howes was still loose on the ship somewhere, they set out to find him. And to your point earlier, it didn't take very long, because they just followed the trail of blood.
Kathryn (51:22)
Okay, yeah, see, this makes sense to me. So it really was largely just because he had lost it. Okay.
Gina (51:27)
Yes, correct.
Mm-hmm. But what Stewart wasn't expecting was to see Smith with House. He was really taken aback because he thought Smith was dead. And when
Kathryn (51:39)
Yeah.
Gina (51:39)
he saw Smith standing there, he was basically like, my bad, like you must have been innocent since God let you live. How wild.
Kathryn (51:51)
Man, what is this? Like what did he have? Like, cause this is definitely some type of delusion or whatever. Like he has some something. Do we know? Sorry, I'm like, I'm at the edge of my seat. So sorry if I'm like ruining anything. But do you know? Is it this a thing? Sorry.
Gina (52:10)
So we don't we
don't know for sure what he had. At the time when this spoiler alert eventually goes to trial, it was speculated or testified by someone that he had monomania, which is no longer really a a term that we use, but at the time monomania
Kathryn (52:23)
Uh-huh.
Gina (52:26)
meant that you were a completely sane, rational person until it came to one specific thing. And that one specific thing would make you go cra Yeah, I think we've talked about it like maybe a year ago.
Kathryn (52:34)
yes, I know about this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have I'm
Gina (52:38)
'Cause kleptomania isn't an example.
Kathryn (52:41)
yes. It was in one of your episodes. I don't remember which one. But yes. Yeah, I remember this.
Gina (52:48)
Yeah.
and so there's that. He also had a history of mental health issues. he and his wife
Kathryn (52:55)
Mm.
Gina (52:56)
actually cause Captain Stewart ha had a wife and I think four or five kids, and one on the way at this time. And he and his wife had previously agreed that he wouldn't undertake journeys to like warm warmer climates because it seemed to set him off. And the only reason he agreed to take this voyage to Barbados, which is warm, is because his family needed the money, because they were gonna have a baby soon.
And so I don't
Kathryn (53:18)
Okay.
Gina (53:19)
know enough about psychology and psychiatry to say how much of an impact the weather has on psychotic breaks, but he clearly had one.
Kathryn (53:28)
Yeah. Okay. iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com If you're a psychiatrist or psychologist and have been thinking the whole episode, that sounds like XYZ, please let us know. Because I'm just like, this is such a s like, please continue because I just can't I'm like spiraling over trying to figure out what this guy was actually experiencing.
Gina (53:51)
Mm, yeah, I get it. I totally get it. so they needed a way to sail both ships into Cork, right? Because it's the Mary Russell, that's gotta get to Cork one way or another. And then there's also Captain Callendar's ship, who, as luck would have it, was also heading for Cork. Howes and Smith were like, we are not staying on this ship with Captain Stewart. We're going to Captain Callendar's ship, which, fair enough, makes total sense. And so Captain Callendar.
loaned Captain Stewart three of his men, because Captain Stewart can't sail the Mary Russell by himself. He needs some people. So Callendar was just like, here, take three of my guys, they'll help you get to port okay. So fine, great, whatever. The two ships are on their way to Cork. After a day or two of sailing, Captain Callend went back on board the Mary Russell just to see how Stewart was doing. To which Stewart replied, I am not very well. Captain Callendar was like, what's
Like, what's going on? Talk to me. And Stewart told him that he was suspicious of the men that Callend had loaned him. He didn't
Kathryn (54:53)
no.
Gina (54:54)
think he could trust them. And that is when Captain Callendar was like, yeah, this dude is not mentally well. Like, there is I had suspicions before. Now I know for sure
Kathryn (55:04)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (55:05)
he is like not we can't trust him with like command of this ship.
Kathryn (55:09)
Yeah.
Gina (55:10)
Callendar tried to comfort Stewart, like calm him down a little bit.
And Stewart responded by jumping overboard.
Kathryn (55:18)
What? He just like fucked off the ship?
Gina (55:21)
Peace out, he's gone. Luckily, the the little boat that had like taken Callendar over to the Mary Russell so he could board it, that little boat was still in the water. And so Callendar just called down and was like, hey guys, can you pick up that dude that's trying to swim away real quick and bring him back? And so they picked him up and they brought him back on board. And as soon as Callendar turned his back, Stewart did it again, jumped back into the water.
Kathryn (55:48)
Not a funny story, but this is definitely a funny scene in the movie. I'm imagining have you ever seen that video? Sorry, have you ever seen that video? This is this maybe disrespectful, but this is what it's reminding me of. Have you ever seen that video of this guy? it's my assumption is father and son. This guy, wake-I it's wakeboarding. What's it called when you're on the little like mini surfboard boogie board thing?
Gina (56:16)
yeah.
Kathryn (56:16)
And you're being
dragged by a boat. I think that I don't know what it is. but like he's got the little boy on the board with him, and all of a sudden it's everything's totally normal. And all of a sudden the little boy just like launches himself off the board, and the dad or guy, whoever he is, just reaches out and like grabs him by the handle mid-air by the handle of like the life jacket or whatever.
Gina (56:40)
Yeah.
Kathryn (56:41)
It's very funny. It's one of my favorite internet videos right now.
Gina (56:43)
Ha ha ha ha.
Kathryn (56:44)
That's what I'm imagining. Like just like broop.
Gina (56:47)
Yeah.
Stewart is trying to yeet himself off this boat and Callendar just keeps
Kathryn (56:51)
Yes.
Gina (56:51)
pulling him back.
Kathryn (56:56)
Wow.
Gina (56:56)
And so this time
when they brought him back, they didn't bring him back to the Mary Russell. They were like, you don't get to go back to your own ship now. Like, you're coming
Kathryn (57:00)
Yeah. No.
Gina (57:02)
on the Mary Stubbs with us.
Kathryn (57:04)
About time.
Gina (57:05)
yeah. so they bring him onto Captain Callendar's ship. And when he got onto the ship, he saw Smith and Howes standing
right there. And that terrified him. So he jumped overboard again.
Kathryn (57:22)
Gina, I
genuinely like I love you, but I don't believe that. I just don't believe you. You're lying to me. You're lying to me right now. my God.
Gina (57:27)
It's true. Is it true? Three times
he jumped overboard. But this time Captain Callendar couldn't get to him in time. There was a small fishing boat nearby, and they
Kathryn (57:39)
no. Mm-hmm.
Gina (57:42)
picked Stewart up before anyone else could get him. Which meant that Stewart, this like delusional axe murderer, was now AWOL. And the crew of that fishing
Kathryn (57:52)
Shut.
Gina (57:52)
boat were in serious danger and they had no idea.
Kathryn (57:55)
no.
Gina (57:56)
Luckily it didn't last long because Stewart told the fishing boat people about what had happened and they were like, Huh, this dude's fucking bananas and so they brought him straight to the Coast Guard. And he got
Kathryn (58:05)
What the fuck?
Gina (58:06)
apprehended, yeah.
Kathryn (58:08)
This is wild.
Gina (58:10)
Stewart was very vocal about what he did. Like I've been saying, he was proud of this. Like he thought he was in the
Kathryn (58:14)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (58:15)
right. and since he was confessing, like over and over again to anyone who would listen, he was brought to the local jail and an inquest was set for the next day. They're in Cork now, by the way. I think I failed to mention that, but they did make it to Cork.
Kathryn (58:28)
So
one question I was going to ask was when they met up with Stubbs, where were they? Like how far away from their destination were they? Do you know?
Gina (58:41)
I wanna
say they were roundabouts three hundred nautical miles from shore.
Kathryn (58:48)
I don't know why I asked that. That means nothing to me. Are they like clot
Gina (58:50)
It doesn't mean much to me either. Yeah.
Kathryn (58:53)
like how time wise? Like how long were they?
Gina (58:55)
So, okay, it it might
help if I if I explain that while Stewart was keeping the men captive, while they were still tied
Kathryn (59:01)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (59:01)
up before he killed them, they actually tried to broker a deal with Captain Stewart. And they were like, you know what, if you like give us a long boat, we're only 300 miles away from shore. We can row the rest of the way ourselves. Like we don't need sails.
Kathryn (59:14)
Mm.
Gina (59:14)
We can make it ourselves. And Stewart wouldn't let them, essentially. So it's like close enough to shore that it's it it wasn't a very far trip. Like you could do it manually if you needed to.
Kathryn (59:24)
It was realistic but still probably like unsafe and that was a lesser of two evils situation. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Gina (59:30)
Yes, yeah, yeah. So not wildly far. Yeah.
an inquest was set for the next day. and remember how like in the Lizzie Borden episode they used an inquest to determine like whether or not it was a murder kind of thing. same
Kathryn (59:43)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Gina (59:46)
kind of situation here. Clearly there was a murder, there were multiple murders, but they needed to establish like what kind of crime was this? Like did Stewart
just straight up kill them in cold blood, or was it, to use their term, under mental derangement, that he did this?
Kathryn (1:00:03)
Mm.
Gina (1:00:04)
Unsurprisingly, the inquest found that Stewart probably did commit the murders, and that he was probably mentally deranged when he did it. So essentially the outcome of the inquest was like something weird happened here, it definitely needs to go to trial. The trial began very shortly afterwards, on the 11th of August 1828.
And it hinged on whether or not Stewart understood the difference between right and wrong when he committed the murders. There was absolutely no question of whether or not he did it, and the whole mutiny thing didn't really factor in either. There was no evidence of a mutiny, therefore no one was trying to prove that there really was one and that he had cause to murder them. It all rested solely on Stewart's shoulders.
There was absolutely no outcome of this in which he would have walked away. Like either he's found guilty and he's executed of cold-blooded murder, or if he's found not guilty by reasons of insanity, he'd be put in a psychiatric hospital. So it's really just deciding like where does this guy go? And so after an array of witnesses and an hour and a half's deliberation, the jury declared that he was both guilty and insane, which was not an option.
the judge was like, You're not allowed to say that. It's either guilty or not guilty by reason of insanity. You can't have both.
Kathryn (1:01:22)
Mm.
Gina (1:01:22)
and eventually the jury like ate their words. They're like, fine, okay, we'll walk that back. We declare him not guilty, quote, having committed the act while laboring under mental derangement. And Stewart was sentenced to confinement, aka putting him in an asylum. Stewart was committed to, and I'm sorry, this is like an insensitive name for.
a psychiatric facility, but I do think it's a little bit funny, sorry. the Asylum for Criminal Lunatics. That's a little bit funny.
Kathryn (1:01:54)
Yeah. That
that sounds like honestly the jerk reaction to that also insensitive was wow that sounds like a good time. I'm sorry. Because I'm imagining like I'm imagining that would be the name of some really awful like music group that has really fun concerts. Do you know what I'm saying? Like insane clown posse.
Gina (1:02:18)
Hmm. I'm picturing I was
literally just about to say like insane clown posse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. So that's where he went. N I don't
Kathryn (1:02:25)
That's what it sounds like. Yeah. That's the vibe of that name. Yeah.
Gina (1:02:30)
think it was quite like an insane clown posse concert, but it actually interestingly enough, so he was put into he wound up being transferred to a different asylum eventually.
Kathryn (1:02:41)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (1:02:41)
but the asylums that he were in
Ireland at the time was kind of on the cutting edge of mental health treatment in that they believed that people struggling with mental health should be treated like humans and rehabilitated rather than just like shut in a cold dark room to suffer endlessly. so he did
Kathryn (1:02:57)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (1:02:58)
receive really, really good treatment, especially at the hands of a guy named Doctor Osborne. He was one of the doctors
who testified at Stewart's trial. He was one of the witnesses who was like, Yeah, he
Definitely snapped. He definitely didn't know the difference between right and wrong. He thought he was doing the correct thing. And that was about as good as it got for Stewart's defense. And so him and this Dr. Osborne guy had a really good doctor-patient relationship. And after a while, it did seem like Stewart was doing better. He still had his bad days where he would get really angry and he would insist that he was innocent and he was only protecting his ship and he did what needed to be done. But then he also had
Pretty good days, where it seemed like he was relatively calm and accepting of the whole thing. Eventually, though, Dr. Osborne did pass away, and Stewart was moved back to his original asylum, where he remained until he passed away in 1873 at the ripe old age of 98 years old.
Kathryn (1:04:02)
That is far too old for that time period. What was he doing?
Gina (1:04:06)
Yeah, I dunno. Apparently the Asylum for Criminal Lunatics had something in the water.
Kathryn (1:04:10)
Wow, that's impressive.
Gina (1:04:11)
Yeah.
And that is the story of the Mary Russell.
Kathryn (1:04:17)
Man, that's fucked up.
Gina (1:04:18)
Yeah. Sorry.
Kathryn (1:04:20)
That's real fucked up. What do we know what happened to his family? Like I feel so sad that he only went on this trip because they needed money and now he's like well not now, he's dead now. But then like he was locked up the rest of his life and she just
Gina (1:04:38)
Yeah.
Kathryn (1:04:39)
was alone with all these kids. I assume maybe she moved in with like
Gina (1:04:41)
I mean it's it's pretty sad.
Kathryn (1:04:43)
her parents or something.
Gina (1:04:44)
not sure she moved well, I'm I'm sure that she did move. I'm not sure where she moved. It's it's a really sad story, the story of the family, actually.
Kathryn (1:04:50)
Yeah.
Gina (1:04:51)
So his his wa his kids were all pretty young, like on the young side, like younger than fifteen, I think, younger than ten, maybe. And when he was imprisoned, his family essentially went from being the family of a wealthy ship's captain to having no money at all. They were thrust into like
Kathryn (1:05:08)
Yeah.
Gina (1:05:09)
a life of poverty.
So much so that Stewart, while he was in psychiatric hospital, he wound up creating model boats, and s trying to sell them for money that he could give back to his family. And he did this using like when they would feed him at dinner time, they would give him like
Kathryn (1:05:26)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (1:05:26)
a piece of mutton or whatever, and he would use the bones from the meat to carve the ships. And you can find, like it's actually he car they're they're quite beautiful, the ones that he made. It's pretty wild. So they were
Kathryn (1:05:38)
That is
like sorry, that's like
Gina (1:05:39)
They did not have a great time, his family.
Kathryn (1:05:41)
that's the most horror movie shit I've ever heard in my life. This guy
Gina (1:05:44)
Yeah.
Kathryn (1:05:45)
gets locked up for axing his entire crew on a ship, gets imprisoned, and makes money by making ship models out of bones.
Gina (1:05:56)
When you put it like that, yeah.
Kathryn (1:05:57)
Are you fucking
out of your mind? You couldn't you
Gina (1:06:00)
Heh.
Kathryn (1:06:02)
the most creative minds in Hollywood could not come up with this in like a writing room. Like, are you kidding? We're just gonna brush past this.
Gina (1:06:10)
Yeah. Yeah,
I know. Well actually it's so another interesting thing. a pair I didn't know this until recently. I went to the Whitby Museum where they have a bunch of
like essentially it was not uncommon for people who were prisoners to carve things out of bone in order to make money.
Either for them or to send back to their family, or they were forced to
Kathryn (1:06:32)
Yeah.
Gina (1:06:33)
do this by the people keeping them prisoner. And it was especially common for like French prisoners of war. At least that's what I saw was a lot of like French prisoner of war
Kathryn (1:06:41)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (1:06:41)
carvings. I'm assuming the Napoleonic Wars. I don't know that for a fact. But they, one of the things they carved, I'll send you a picture of it actually. It's amazing
Kathryn (1:06:48)
Yeah.
Gina (1:06:49)
the level of detail they were able to achieve with like bones from their food and like makeshift little tools. They were in a prison cell and they were doing this.
Kathryn (1:06:57)
Where where did you see this?
Gina (1:06:59)
So this was at the Whitby Museum, which is in Yorkshire. My mom and I went there when she w yeah in
Kathryn (1:07:02)
In New York?
Gina (1:07:04)
no, not York. Yorkshire. The original York.
Kathryn (1:07:05)
Not New York, Old Old York.
Gina (1:07:08)
Old York. Yeah. Here I'll send you sending it to you now. So this is not what Stewart carved. It's just an example of like the level of
Kathryn (1:07:15)
Okay.
Gina (1:07:15)
detail you can achieve.
Kathryn (1:07:17)
wow. Look at that.
Gina (1:07:18)
Mm that's beautiful, right?
Kathryn (1:07:19)
Yeah.
Gina (1:07:20)
Yeah. So that yeah, that would have been about thirty or so years before. Like same kind of time frame as when Stewart was in prison. So yeah, bone carvings. That's a thing.
Mm-hmm. If it weren't for TikTok, we'd all be carvin' bones. That sounds kind of sexy.
Kathryn (1:07:29)
This is what happened before social media. I know. Yeah.
Gina (1:07:42)
Anyway, that's
Kathryn (1:07:42)
Well, yeah. Damn.
Gina (1:07:45)
enough of that. Do you perchance have something for me?
Kathryn (1:07:48)
I do. And I I was gonna I was looking for a funny or feel good ghost story. And I found a few, but I'm gonna read this other one instead that's not funny or more fun.
Gina (1:08:04)
Okay. Okay.
Kathryn (1:08:08)
I'm a little confused about so I went on Reddit and I was just I literally searched funny ghost story feel funny.
feel good ghost story, et cetera. Cause I know we've been we've been talking about a lot of dark stuff lately. So I wanted to bring it up a little bit. and this was one of the answers. I yeah the question is funniest ghost story. And I don't think this is that funny at all. But like it's actually very creepy and very scary. I don't know why this person
Gina (1:08:32)
Okay.
Kathryn (1:08:33)
put this as an answer, but it's a good ghost story. So I'm gonna read it.
So yeah, like I said, it's in the it's in the paranormal subreddit, the answer to a question, and this person's name is Cherry Poison 7. it says, For context, my older sister and I had this bit where we were constantly trying to prank each other by scaring the other one.
By hiding in each other's closets and jump scaring anyone who would walk into the room.
Gina (1:09:01)
Awww that's evil.
Kathryn (1:09:04)
Yeah.
So this was ongoing, and one night I took a nap and woke up at maybe around 8 p.m. My room was dark but had some light from the outside streaming into the room. I turned around to face my closet and saw my sister slowly opening the closet door and creeping out of it, but hesitant almost. I saw her shirt peeking out. I thought to myself,
I was just gonna fake asleep because she probably thinks I don't notice her. So I pretend to close my eyes, but I'm peeking out at my room still. And a few seconds later, my sister walks into my room and says, Food's ready, let's go eat. I immediately turn on all my lights and there was no one in my closet. My sister was never hiding in there.
Gina (1:09:54)
You gotta move. You gotta burn it down and you gotta move. my god.
Kathryn (1:09:57)
Immediately, immediately move. I know.
I know. It's not so creepy.
Gina (1:10:03)
That's I think seriously that is what I'm most afraid. Like I say, I'm really scared of heights,
Kathryn (1:10:07)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (1:10:08)
and I am scared of heights, but I that is much scarier to me. Like that's my actual worst fear. That someone is hiding in my house and I don't know where they are and they're gonna get me. Ugh.
Kathryn (1:10:18)
Yeah. Yeah.
Sorry, there was a squirrel out in that tree and it kind of looked like it was gonna fall out of the tree for a second. So I just like lost my train of thought. Sorry, I was just like watching that squirrel almost die. Okay. yeah, me too. I never that was never s honestly, it was the phroggers month way at the beginning that made
me afraid of that. I've never been afraid of that really until but also I'm kind of not afraid of that because I feel like spooky would sniff them out pretty fast.
Gina (1:10:49)
Mm, that's
fair. Yeah.
Kathryn (1:10:50)
Like I trust
him to like find them for me.
Gina (1:10:54)
I don't think Roux would. I
think Rue would just get excited at having another friend.
Kathryn (1:10:58)
Yeah. Well, there is a big difference between a like little queen cat and a hound dog who is bred for hunting.
Gina (1:11:06)
Just a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.
Kathryn (1:11:11)
but yes, if any of you out there have super spooky stories or just casual stories or funny stories, if you want to send us one of your funny ghost stories so I don't pull one of these again, let us know at iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com Also, friendly reminder that we have a Patreon.
And we would love for you to join us over there. If not, no worries, hit us with a five star review wherever you listen. And until next time, little spoons, keep it cool.
Gina (1:11:37)
Keep it creepy.
