73: Valiant Thor
Kathryn (00:12)
Welcome to I Scream You Scream, we’re your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories, mysteries, and paranormal perplexities. My name is Kathryn
Gina (00:20)
I'm Gina.
Kathryn (00:21)
And it's a new month. Happy April. This month we are telling stories that have to do with aliens. We are very excited. This is highly requested and we are very excited about it. We've been waiting for this topic. And the flavor is something green, very specific for you. We'll talk about what we have here in a little bit. But before we get to that, we have some fun.
news that I am very excited to share and it is the fact that Ice Scream You Scream podcast officially has their first sponsor. huge shout out to friend of the pod Chloe of Chloe Bear Money Coach. Thank you so much for sponsoring this episode.
Gina (00:58)
He he!
Kathryn (01:06)
you're interested in getting started with investing, but it feels overwhelming, visit getlazynow.com. Link is in the description. So yeah, grab a spoon and let's dig in.
Gina (01:19)
I'm so excited to hear what you're eating.
Kathryn (01:21)
Well, you shouldn't be, because it's very boring. I decided to phone it in again this month. So you're all going to be shocked to learn that I am eating the lime strip of my rainbow sherbet.
Gina (01:23)
You
Hey, no waste.
Kathryn (01:39)
No waste. I'm doing real hard. I promise I'm not going to propose orange for next month. But I will say I did want to zhuzh it up. And I am using my Halloween sprinkles. And I specifically plucked out the ones that made it most alien-y. So I've got lime sherbet with black and green sprinkles of my black, green, purple, white, and orange mix. So I tried. I did.
Gina (01:50)
Ooh, nice.
Nice!
Kathryn (02:07)
I of try in my lack of effort.
Gina (02:10)
Dude, you spent time separating sprinkles to be on theme.
That's definitely effort. You get 20 gold stars for that. I would not have the patience.
Kathryn (02:15)
Thank you.
What are you eating?
Gina (02:23)
I made matcha ice cream.
Kathryn (02:25)
my God, I'm over here plucking out sprinkles and you actually made matcha ice cream. We are not the same. You are just a glorious person.
Gina (02:27)
I know.
I'm so excited.
I've always wanted to try matcha ice cream and now I have it and I get to eat it I'm so excited. I like a little spoonful when I was churning it, but I haven't like properly had a bowl since it's set. So I'm gonna try it.
Kathryn (02:38)
Have you tried any yet or is this the first bite?
Yay.
Gina (02:49)
it's so matcha-y. That's so good. Whew, that's a lot of matcha.
Kathryn (02:51)
I saw it on your face. It was like, ooh. I saw your face do the, Really?
I wish I was a matcha girly. It just looks so pretty. I just don't, it's not my, it's not my thing.
Gina (03:04)
It does taste like grass. It tastes like eating dirt. It's an acquired taste.
Kathryn (03:07)
It does. I remember
the first time I got it with you. The first time I ever tried it was with you. It's the day you learned about my food ordering voice. And yeah, that was rough. I wanted to like it so bad. gave it another sip just in case. I was just like, ooh, that's... I'm not like an earthy flavor kind of girl. Like that's not... If I'm eating something of the earth, I like a citrus or something with like... I need that like zip, you know?
Gina (03:12)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mmm.
then matcha is not for you. It just tastes like it came straight from the ground. Yeah, your food ordering voice is one of my favorite things in the whole world. ⁓
Kathryn (03:38)
Not it. It's not it at all. Mm-hmm.
I love how we still talk. I notice it every
time now and I cannot stop.
Gina (03:48)
So the story goes, the lore goes that... I would be honored to tell it. So it was back when Kathryn and I worked in the same office and it was like over our lunch break one day we decided to go through the Starbucks drive-through and like get some drinks or something. And it was the first time I think I had ever heard Kathryn order something at a drive-through. So like she and I were having a conversation. I can't remember what we were talking about. It was probably
Kathryn (03:49)
I was like, we have to tell it. I feel weird being the one telling it.
Yeah.
Just whatever.
Gina (04:14)
And the person comes through the microphone asking what we would like to order and Kathryn goes from talking normally to me, faces the window and then goes, hi, I would like to order a hazelnut.
Kathryn (04:28)
The highest pitch voice.
Gina (04:31)
I am being a little hyperbolic there. You didn't sound like that, but it was so funny.
Kathryn (04:34)
Honestly, it's okay, I think I do. Like, I get real mousy.
And then I think it was like, I turned back to you to confirm what you wanted, and I was like, what do you want?
Macho!
Gina (04:48)
Was that
the same day that ⁓ the breakfast sandwich that you ordered fell on the floor before you could eat it?
Kathryn (04:58)
Is it? It may have been.
Gina (05:00)
If so, that was dark.
Kathryn (05:02)
I literally just sat on the floor and tried not to cry. I think that may have been that same day. I forgot about that. I repressed that. Yeah, that was a dark day.
Gina (05:06)
Yeah.
was a dark day. Yeah, we're fine. ⁓ I have some fun news actually that I think will cheer us up after revisiting that dark, dark day. I have ⁓ three pieces of exciting animal news.
Kathryn (05:13)
That's okay, we've moved on. Everything's fine. What else do you have for me?
Tell me.
I love your animal news.
Gina (05:30)
Okay, so the first one is that a group of ladybugs is called a loveliness.
Kathryn (05:36)
your beautiful mouth. Are you fucking kidding me? Stop. Don't do that to me, Cheetah. I'm literally gonna cry. What a loveliness of ladybugs? That sounds like a children's poem.
Gina (05:39)
It's called the loveliness of ladybugs. Is that not the cutest thing you've ever heard in your life?
loveliness.
It's so beautiful, isn't it? And it just makes sense. It's like how business of ferrets just makes sense. Murder of crows. Perfect. Yes.
Kathryn (05:57)
Murder of crows is everyone's favorite. that's yeah, that's
such a good. Wait, murder, murder of crows and loveliness of ladybugs is like the Scorpio Libra of like the animal grouping kingdom. I love that I'm writing that children's book in my head, A Loveliness of Ladybugs. Nobody steal that. I swear to God, I'll be so mad. Intellectual property.
Gina (06:16)
I do appreciate that.
Kathryn (06:26)
You heard it here first. Copyright, Kathryn, iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com
Gina (06:27)
Copyright. TM.
Kathryn (06:33)
Wait, I didn't...
Gina (06:37)
Ame out.
Kathryn (06:39)
was like, wow, we've got a long title.
Okay, I'm sorry. What's item two? You said you had three.
Gina (06:48)
⁓ I discovered a cute new animal that I had never heard about before. It's called a Japanese... yeah, I'm sending you two pictures. It's called a Japanese dwarf flying squirrel and... ⁓ you're gonna love it. Okay, I'm texting it to you now.
Kathryn (06:51)
Okay, are you sending me a picture? Okay, okay.
Duh.
That's cute.
Gina (07:08)
Shit!
Kathryn (07:09)
It looks like if a snowball was an animal.
Gina (07:13)
And then it like spreads its little wings and it's actually very small. It just looks like a snowball because its wings are so wingy. It's so cute.
Kathryn (07:21)
Man, I don't know if I just missed you extra lots, but I found a way to find this site or like connect the side by side to us. This top puffball picture of me is me and that bottom flying one is you. Because I just love you so much because zoom in on his face.
Gina (07:33)
Why? Because it is.
Kathryn (07:40)
That flying face is you. Tell me it's not.
Gina (07:45)
It looks like purposeful and a little miffed, so yeah. The one, ⁓ the first one that I sent you, where it looks like it's posing like a model, that one's you coded.
Kathryn (07:49)
Yes.
Yeah.
my God, thank you so much. Yeah, he looks like a little squirrel princess.
Gina (07:58)
It's like, stop, stop.
It's so cute. Okay, my last piece of animal news is, do you remember a million years ago, I'm pretty sure it was on the podcast, we were talking about how cute baby toucans are?
Kathryn (08:14)
I can't see them in my head, but I feel like I remember this conversation. Let me, look it up real quick.
Gina (08:19)
Ooh, okay. Well, hold on.
Kathryn (08:23)
yeah, yes, okay, I do remember this conversation now because they do look a little fake because their bills are so big. Yes, yes. Yes.
Gina (08:28)
Yes, they're adorable. So the
zoo that my mom works at has two toucans, a male and a female, and they've been exhibiting mating behaviors. And recently they laid an egg. So we're going to have baby toucans.
Kathryn (08:43)
No...
Wait!
It's so cute. Your mom's gonna like actually see one.
Gina (08:47)
Isn't that so exciting?
Yeah, she is! It's really, really exciting. So yeah, that's my three-fold animal news. Happy April.
Kathryn (08:57)
love that one in
particular because is one of the birds where like you never see the baby. I feel that way about flamingos and pigeons too. Pigeons, pigeons is a big one. And I actually learned something from the Merriam-Webster dictionary social media. If you don't follow them, you should follow them because whoever runs that social media account is the best social media manager.
Gina (09:07)
Yeah.
Kathryn (09:21)
ever in the world. But I think it was Merriam-Webster. It was either them or Britannica. But the reason you never see a baby pigeon is because of all the birds, they take the longest time to be ready to leave the nest. So by the time they're ready to leave the nest, they're fully grown, essentially. They're like physically fully grown. Yeah. So that's why you never see them. Yeah.
Gina (09:23)
Hehe!
Really?
Okay. Because
I think about that every time I'm in the city, because there's always pigeons everywhere and I always wonder where their babies are. that's so interesting.
Kathryn (09:50)
Mm-hmm. Everywhere. And you're like, where's your nest?
Yeah, they're so, so good at like hiding their nests and their babies don't leave until they're like, yeah, fully developed. So that's why.
Gina (10:04)
Wow. All right, well today
I learned pigeons are like super supportive parents. Good for them.
Kathryn (10:08)
Yeah.
Yeah. See, we're all full of bird news here on iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com.
Gina (10:10)
Hehehehehe
Kathryn (10:17)
Anyway, what do you have for me today? I'm very excited.
Gina (10:21)
my God. ⁓
so originally I had planned to do this episode in the second half of alien month because I wanted to start with like a more traditional alien story. But then I started doing like some light reading about this topic just to familiarize myself with it. And I fell head first into a rabbit hole and I've become completely consumed by this story and everything that happens around it. So.
Kathryn (10:34)
okay.
Gina (10:51)
I'm going to attempt to tell you within one episode about that one time an alien supposedly lived at the Pentagon for three years. And that alien's name is Valiant Thor.
Kathryn (11:01)
sweet.
saw Valiant Thor on the spreadsheet and I did do a quick Google search because I was like, I genuinely, I've never heard, I've never heard of this. Yeah, so I was like, that seems like a children's story about a god. So was like, I need to make sure she knows what topic we're doing.
Gina (11:16)
What?
Wow.
I think you may have just had a little bit of a psychic moment and that's all I'm gonna say for now. So I'm gonna start telling you, no, don't apologize because we will definitely get into it. So I'll start off by saying that everything we know about Valiant Thor comes from one person, a man named E. Stranges who published a series of writings about his experiences with Valiant Thor.
Kathryn (11:32)
⁓ okay, sorry. I'm gonna stop talking.
Okay.
Gina (11:56)
perhaps most notably in his novel, Stranger at the Pentagon, which according to Frank is not fiction. He claims that it is a 100 % true account of his experiences with this alien. This is not the only book that Frank wrote about Valiant Thor, but it was the first book that he wrote about him. So this is where most of the information that I'm gonna be sharing with you comes from. And Frank himself,
plays a very large role within the book. He is a character in it. So for a little bit of a background on Frank, the book introduces him as a person with a lot of credentials. It says he has multiple PhDs in criminology, psychology, philosophy, and theology, alongside being the president of the International Theological Seminary of California.
It also lists a bunch of other credentials as well, all of which like basically add up to say, this guy is super smart, he's a loud and proud Christian, and he believes in his book, Stranger at the Pentagon, came out in 1967, but it takes place beginning a decade earlier in 1957. And the narrative of the book stretches over like a number of years after that. So before we talk about what happens in the book,
I wanna just real quick touch on what was going on around the book because a lot happens in the 50s and 60s, historical context wise. So when this book takes place, when it starts in 1957, were 12 years after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Soviet Union had nuclear capabilities and the Cold War was in full swing. It seemed as if the world was teetering on the edge of self-destruction.
And that is the environment in which we start to see a really interesting cultural phenomenon emerge. People started coming forward and claiming to have been contacted by aliens from outer space, often Venus or Mars, but they weren't like scary aliens. In a lot of these stories, they were friendly. And almost across the board, the people claiming to have met these aliens said that they were very worried about humans having nukes.
And the message that the aliens gave was often some version of like, you need to sort out this nuclear bullshit before you blow the world up and mess up the solar system. So this was a period of time where reported alien encounters centered around deescalating rising nuclear tensions. And it's known as the Contactee Era And by the time the book was published,
The Contactee Era had kind of given way to a scarier version of aliens in the 1960s. This is when like the grays became a big thing. This is when reports of like forced abductions started to rise. It's not like the first time we had heard them, just their frequency tipped up. So when this book takes place and also when it came out, there was already a lot of very intense nuclear anxiety that fed into this kind of like UFO mania.
and thinking that things were so bad in the world that even the aliens were asking us to stop, that kind of thing. And with that history in mind, with all of that very loaded heavy context, I will now tell you about the claims that Frank makes in this book, Stranger at the Pentagon.
whole fucking thing, swear to God, it's such a rabbit hole. Can you tell? I've been like...
Kathryn (15:34)
I can tell like your,
what is it called? Demeanor body language is very like, where do I start? Where do I start? Yeah. Just bear with me. Beautiful. So far so good.
Gina (15:45)
my God, there's so many elements to this. Well, it all started on a rainy day in 1932. Just kidding, it
was March 1957 when a spaceship landed in Alexandria, Virginia and was almost immediately spotted by two on-duty police officers. The door to the spaceship opened.
and the police watched as a figure emerged from within. He was described as a wildly handsome, six-foot tall, human-looking man with brown hair and brown eyes, wearing a silvery gold space suit. The officers raised their weapons at him, but the alien looked at them and both police officers suddenly and simultaneously realized that he meant no harm.
and that he needed to talk to their president, like, take me to your leader type stuff. And we would later come to learn that this alien who, spoiler, was Valiant Thor, he can project his thoughts into people's heads and that's what he had done here. So when they were pointing the weapon at him, he basically sent them a mental thing of like, don't worry, I'm not like gonna mess with you. I don't mean any harm. I just casually wanna talk to the president, whatever. So the officers lowered their weapons and they asked him for his name.
Kathryn (16:44)
Mm.
Gina (17:09)
And the aliens said that they wouldn't understand his real name, but that they could call him Valiant Thor, or Val for short. The officers put him in their car and took the 20 minute drive to Washington, DC. And after some back and forth about what to do with him, Val was passed from security post to security post. And then he wound up at the Pentagon where he was passed up the chain and up the chain
until eventually he wound up face to face with President Eisenhower. Eisenhower asked where Val came from and Val replied, quote, I come from the planet your Bible calls the morning and evening star, AKA Venus. Yes, very beautiful way to say that he's from Venus.
Kathryn (17:53)
⁓
Yeah, I kind of love that.
Gina (18:00)
That's nice. And Eisenhower very reasonably asked for proof of this. So, Val invited the president to come see his spaceship as evidence that he really was from outer space. And Eisenhower was like, mm, I would love to, but it doesn't really work that way because I'm the president and I can't just go like traipsing around towards an alien spacecraft. There's like protocol we have to follow. But let's get to know each other a little bit better and we'll see what happens.
And then at that point, Nixon entered the room, introduced himself, and then after a little bit of chinwagging, Nixon, Eisenhower, and Val discussed the reason for Val's visit to Earth. had been sent by his planet's highest authority, called the High Council, to help Earth achieve peace and prosperity by eliminating nuclear weapons, solving world hunger,
and curing all diseases through access to their advanced alien technology. Eisenhower heard him out and said that they couldn't commit to anything just yet, but America's best scientists would run some tests, crunch some numbers, and see whether or not Val's plan was actually feasible. And while they were doing that, Val could stay at the Pentagon.
So as Val was being escorted out of the room to his new lodgings, Nixon commented that Val's spacesuit was incredible and that if Val would allow it, they'd like to run some tests on it and see what they could learn. Val agreed. And after he was taken to his new apartment, which was in the basement of the Pentagon, he changed into human clothes and gave his spacesuit to the powers that be. And we'll talk more about his spacesuit later, because there is some stuff with that.
Ultimately, Valiant Thor was given permission to stay at the Pentagon for three years. And that is what he did. I want to ask if you have any questions yet, but I imagine they are countless.
Kathryn (19:54)
I do, I do, but
I'm trying to see where this goes because I have questions and comments and I'm trying to wait to see where this goes. But so far I'm along for this ride and I'm like, so far there's not a single thing that I don't believe. I'm along for this ride. I'm like, you know what? Sure, why not? I believe it. Who fucking cares? Yeah.
Gina (20:01)
Okay.
Okay, cool. Great.
Okay, awesome, awesome. All right, cool. Sure, why not? Why not, right? Could totally happen. Who cares?
Kathryn (20:22)
Who cares?
It doesn't matter anyway. This is probably all true. It's all probably true, guys.
Gina (20:30)
Can that be our tagline? I Scream You Scream, who cares?
Kathryn (20:33)
Is it not already? Yeah, we'll update our marketing collateral. I thought it was. It is in my head. Who fucking cares?
Gina (20:36)
Okay, sweet.
Fucking cares. So while the government was busy deciding whether or not to end the threat of nuclear war in exchange for world peace and happiness, Val spent his time America in other ways. He consulted on space medicine projects and he gave advice to government officials whenever they asked for it, really.
And notably, he declined to help America build a space-based missile defense system, which I included because the idea of a peace-loving alien coming to Earth to fix all of our problems and us being like, hey, could you help us build weapons? That is so American. And it just makes me laugh because we suck.
Kathryn (21:15)
Mm-hmm.
That's
exactly why I believe this story. Yeah.
Gina (21:27)
Yeah.
And then of course Val also let them run tests on his space suit. And most of those tests seemed to be about its durability. Frank in the book described how they tried to drill through the space suit with a diamond drill bit, but the drill bit snapped. They also doused it in acid, which did nothing but burn a hole in the floor after it dripped off the suit.
Kathryn (21:48)
Ooh.
Gina (21:56)
And they also fired rifles at it and shot lasers at it to no effect, making it very clear that these aliens did possess some pretty advanced technology,
time passed and one day Val was hanging out in his Pentagon apartment when he got a call from the other aliens on his spaceship because he wasn't the only one on Earth. Like he had just left his crew to come talk to the government. They were all still chilling on the spaceship. And the other aliens, of which there were three,
Kathryn (22:18)
Mm.
Okay.
Gina (22:25)
that they had heard of a gathering of humans who believed in extraterrestrial life. So basically there was like a UFO ologist party and these aliens wanted to go to it undercover to kind of get the scoop on like what kind of support they might have with the citizens of Earth. agreed
So he opened his apartment door to head over and there were secret service members guarding it, as always. And he told the secret service members that he was gonna, you know, head out for a while and they were like, mm, no, you're not. You don't have a high enough security clearance to leave this room alone. And so Val held up his empty hand and using his alien space powers, he made the guards hallucinate that he was holding a very high clearance ID badge. It's a...
Kathryn (23:09)
Sweet.
Gina (23:10)
Technique referred to in the book as trans imagery. It comes up quite a few times. And seeing this, the guards had no choice but to let him pass. So Val went to this UFO party with his alien friends. It was in like someone's backyard. And it's during this meeting that we get some pictures show Valiant Thor and his crew. I will send them to you. Yeah, I will say.
Kathryn (23:15)
Okay.
⁓ that's cool!
Gina (23:37)
Well, let me send the pictures to you first and then I'll give my caveats.
I just sent you one. So Valiant Thor is meant to be the guy all the way on the right.
Kathryn (23:46)
The one in like closest to the camera? Like he's holding? Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of looks like Jimmy Stewart.
Gina (23:50)
Yeah, yeah, the one, it looks like he's holding a notepad or something. Yeah, so allegedly that's.
Yeah. Yeah, he looks like a regular person. all these pictures really honestly show is like just some very pretty people at a garden party wearing era-appropriate clothing. So they could be pictures of anyone up to and including Jimmy Stewart. Do with that information what you will.
Kathryn (23:58)
Do you think? A little bit.
Yeah.
I would
also believe that Jimmy Stewart was an alien. He was very tall.
Gina (24:22)
And when, so, so, Val, you know, the party goes well, he meets some new people, and when he returned to the Pentagon, Eisenhower invited Val to another meeting. And this time in the meeting, the president said that the U.S. would not be accepting Val's proposal because they had run the numbers and it turns out that getting rid of sickness, hunger, and nuclear bombs would ruin the American economy. So it was not worth it because society would collapse.
Kathryn (24:22)
Okay, interesting.
Sounds about right.
Gina (24:51)
Yeah, honestly, I think this is potentially the most realistic part of this story for me. Like this is the part I believe more than anything else.
Kathryn (24:57)
for sure. Whether or not
aliens were involved, I believe this conversation happened and happens on a regular basis. Like, yes, this is, I have no doubt that this really happened.
Gina (25:05)
Yes.
And Val responded like, what do you mean Americans couldn't withstand the eradication of hunger, sickness, and nukes? Like that doesn't compute. Those are all horrible things. And Eisenhower responded by alluding to the fact that there were other powers preventing him from agreeing to the proposal. So Frank straight up writes in his book, like someone else was pulling the strings.
Kathryn (25:20)
you
Gina (25:35)
And we don't know who, we don't know if this was like an Illuminati situation or just like corporate fat cat stuff. No matter what, Val's plan was a no-go, at least from the American government's perspective. But Eisenhower made it clear that Val was still welcome to stay at the Pentagon. So Val wasn't happy about this decision, obviously. He wanted them to accept his proposal, but he did stay.
And he decided that if he wasn't going to get government support on his mission, he could at least get grassroots support. And so he started looking across the planet for someone who the government couldn't control. Someone who could spread the word about his plan and his purpose on earth. Someone like Frank E. Stranges, our esteemed author.
As a UFO researcher who claimed a high level of education and a deep devotion to Christianity, Val thought Frank would be perfect. So he set out to get in touch with him. And by this point, his time at the Pentagon was almost up. But during his time there, he had become friends with a Pentagon employee named Nancy Warren.
And that's a pseudonym. We don't know what Nancy's real name was, but in the book, she's called Nancy Warren. And Nancy agreed to contact Frank on Val's behalf. Frank had been a series of lectures at nearby churches and Nancy attended one of them.
And after the lecture was done, she introduced herself to Frank and she invited him to meet Valiant Thor. to Frank, he had already heard rumors about Val by then, and he had even come across the alleged pictures of him at that garden party. so Frank was like, me? I'm kind of nervous about this. Like, I'm just a guy. Why me? And Nancy was like, you know, don't be scared. It'll be okay. You should come to the Pentagon.
Just meet him, just listen to what he has to say. And so Frank agreed to meet Val, and the next morning, Nancy came to pick Frank up, and she brought him to the Pentagon. Now you might be saying, why on earth would the Pentagon let a random civilian inside its walls to meet a top secret alien from Venus? Well, I will tell you what Frank said happened.
As Nancy drove her and Frank towards the Pentagon security gate, she told Frank that when the guards asked for his ID to simply point at his lapel, worth noting his lapel had nothing on it. Like it was nothing at all. So Frank didn't know how this would help, but he decided to do it anyway. So when he got to the guards and they asked for their credentials, Nancy showed them her Pentagon ID and Frank pointed to his bare lapel and the guards nodded.
and let him through, with the implication being that Val from inside the Pentagon sent a mental image into the guards' minds to make them think that Frank had credentials that he didn't. Same trick that he used when he went to the party. And once they were inside, Nancy brought Frank into a room and then Val walked in to speak with him. a little bit of a chat, Frank asked Val what he was doing on Earth, and Val explained his mission to Frank and said that he had been sent by God
to return humanity to the Lord.
Val went on to say that he had been created at the very beginning of the universe alongside Adam and Eve. But unlike Adam and Eve, those living on Venus had never been like expelled from a Garden of Eden type moment. They had never disobeyed one of God's commandments or been cast out in the way that humans have in the Christian
which meant that Val and his fellow Venusians, which is the word for people who live on Venus, lived in harmony with God and that Jesus Christ was actually one of Val's close personal friends. I'm not making that up. Like that is a claim that Frank slash Val make in the book, like he is friends with Jesus. Val told Frank that he had been at the Pentagon for a few years now and he had tried to steer America and the wider world in the correct direction.
But the three years Eisenhower had given him at the Pentagon were almost up and there was still so much left to do on earth. So, Val told Frank that he needed his help. If the government wouldn't spread his word across the world, he needed someone who would. And Frank would be the perfect emissary.
Frank was taken aback by this. He believed everything that was saying, but it was kind of like a, can I, but a lowly earthling help someone as great as you type deal. To which Val responded by saying, basically like you are favored by God. ⁓ Frank had recently written a book about UFOs and Val pointed to it as evidence for Frank's worthiness saying, and this is a direct quote, SAUCERAMA could not have been written without heavenly guidance.
Kathryn (30:33)
You know what? That checks out. First thing I think, Jesus Christ. Yeah, absolutely.
Gina (30:35)
You know what? Yeah, like when you hear SAUCERAMA I have a religious experience. Praise God. Praise God. Yeah.
And just as a reminder, Frank is the one writing all of this. As their meeting drew to a close... Do you think you see where this is heading a little bit?
Kathryn (30:47)
Yeah. Sweet.
You know, I smell what you're stepping in. I'm with you. ⁓ please. You're doing great. You're doing great.
Gina (30:57)
Mm. I really told myself I was gonna be objective in this part of the story, but I'm struggling with it so hard. Thank you, I'm really,
I'm in a bit of physical pain, I won't lie.
Kathryn (31:09)
can see guys she's squirming. ⁓
Gina (31:11)
I'm squirming so bad. Okay. As their meeting
drew to a close, Frank agreed to help Val and asked when he would see him again, to which Val simply replied, when the time is right. A few months later, in March, 1960, Val left the Pentagon. But that doesn't mean he left Earth for good.
So about a year after their initial meeting, Frank was driving along in his car one day when suddenly Val appeared out of nowhere in the backseat because Val can also teleport. And this startled Frank understandably because
Kathryn (32:45)
Sweet.
Gina (32:50)
what the hell, but once he had kind of calmed down a little bit, they got to talking and they just had like, like small talk. They talked about Frank's family, what he had been up to, just like chit chatting. And after a while, Val just disappeared. This happened multiple times over the next few years. Frank would be somewhere and Val would just like rock up suddenly out of nowhere.
And over time, over the course of their conversations, Val eventually started sharing more about himself and also more about his people. He shared that on his home planet, Venus, they all lived underground. And Val said that this was very common on planets across the universe. And actually, humans are a little bit weird for living above ground, which I love.
He also shared that his people had actually been watching Earth for a while and apparently visited our planet over 6,000 years ago, but only after performing a protection ritual called the Ring of Fire. Because according to Val and his people, the Earth is under the influence of Satan. So they did this ceremony called the Ring of Fire.
Kathryn (33:42)
Ooh.
Gina (33:57)
where they would basically pray to God for protection before visiting earth, including saying the Lord's Prayer on Venus. Do with that what you will. each time Val's, yeah, yeah, makes sense. Each time Val visited Frank, their conversations ended mostly the same way with Val insisting that Frank simply must publish more books. So Frank obeyed and kept trying to spread the word.
Kathryn (34:07)
Makes sense.
Gina (34:25)
And apparently this put Frank into considerable danger.
According to Frank, his friendship with Val resulted in multiple attempts on Frank's life, including a poisoning attempt while at a conference in West Germany. was being interviewed by representatives of an Italian magazine. I think it was like a UFO magazine over a light lunch. Frank ordered some rather bland tomato soup.
Kathryn (34:40)
mine.
Gina (34:52)
And the two men from the magazine started really pressing Frank with questions about Val. And specifically, they wanted to know where Val was. And they kept asking Frank, kept asking him over and over, are you sure you don't know where he is? Okay, but where do you think he might be? That kind of thing. And Frank was like, I don't know, man. He's an alien. Maybe we should check space. No idea. And after a while, Frank had to step away from the table to take a call. And when he came back, the two men had disappeared.
And Frank was kind of like, well, you know, whatever, I guess I'll finish my soup. And he sits down and he took another bite and he immediately realized that something was wrong. He wrote, quote, I tasted a gritty substance that burned like fire all the way down to my stomach. Ugh, I know, isn't that horrifying? I agree. Yeah, me too. In the soup. In the goddamn soup.
Kathryn (35:41)
Ew! Yuck! my god. That makes me sad.
In the soup?
Gina (35:53)
So right away, Frank was like, shit, I might've been poisoned. I am in a foreign country where I don't speak the language. I need to find my interpreter. Because coincidentally, Frank's interpreter was a medical student. And as a double coincidence, Frank found him in the very same restaurant that he was already at.
Kathryn (36:12)
Okay.
Gina (36:13)
Yeah, the interpreter, I know, it was very serendipitous. It's almost like someone wrote it. The interpreter brought Frank back to his hotel room where he mixed some white powder into a glass of water and gave it to Frank to drink. We never find out what this white powder is. In fact, the interpreter doesn't know what it is either. He would later say that he was just told to bring it with him, presumably by Val. So anyway, Frank drinks this water.
Kathryn (36:14)
I'm lucky.
Gina (36:43)
and he quickly passes He later woke up in his hotel room to the sound of a phone ringing, and when he answered the phone, it was Val on the other line. And Val basically said, like I told you, to be careful. People are after us. And eventually, Frank did recover from this poisoning attempt.
And he made contact with that Italian magazine that those two guys allegedly worked for, and the magazine had never heard of them. So it was like some covert operation to try and kill Frank, basically. And that would not be the end of his near-death encounters. In the edition of Stranger at the Pentagon that I read, which was the fourth revised edition, he recounted a 1974 attack on his person by none other than men in black.
Kathryn (37:13)
Mm.
interesting.
Gina (37:35)
Mm-hmm.
Yes. According to Frank, he was on his way to Las Vegas to visit Val, and he was met at the airport by two men in black driving a black car. Frank didn't really question it. He didn't ask these people who they were. He just kind of assumed that they were Val's friends picking him up at the airport, and he got into the car with them, and they drove off.
So if this was the movie taken, Frank would just be 100 % gone. zero awareness, absolutely no thought for safety. You could tell he's a man. Anyway, so Frank later wrote, and I included this because this line did make me laugh. So when he gets into the car with these men in black, they were smoking cigars. And Frank said, quote, the smell of cigars should have tipped me off. However, the excitement of seeing Val again superseded my caution.
Kathryn (38:06)
Yeah.
Gina (38:30)
And then this next part is in capital letters. Space people do not smoke and are never around people who do. Which like, it does make sense. I just thought it was like, ⁓ okay. That was a bit random and funny. All right, cool. Yeah, got it. worries. So they drove around the block or not around the block. They drove several blocks away when the car suddenly stopped. One of the men, and I think there were three men in black in the car,
Kathryn (38:43)
Interesting. It's like, all right, all right.
Gina (39:00)
One of them told Frank to get out and then he literally kicked Frank out of the car. So Frank kind of like spilled out of the car outside because he's been, you know, kind of pushed or kicked. And the other three dudes get out of the car and they start to beat Frank up. Frank proceeded to call upon the power of the Lord to give him strength in the fight. And he, at the age of nearly 50, apparently put up a pretty fair fight against three men in black.
And then a white car pulled up and two men exited and started helping Frank. And that's when Frank realized like, ⁓ these are Val's friends. Like these are the ones I was supposed to get in the car with. So the two dudes from the white car are aliens and they're friends of Vow's. And they essentially save Frank from the men in black in the black car. They subdued most of the bad guys.
but one of them almost got away. He like got back into the black car's driver's seat and he started to pull off. So one of the aliens melted the rear tires so that it couldn't drive off. And then for good measure, the alien raised his hands and the car and all of the bad guys disappeared into thin air. And when Frank asked where they had gone, the alien replied, quote, let's just say that they are now displaced.
Kathryn (40:20)
Okay.
Gina (40:21)
like a pocket universe kind of deal. And after that, the aliens took Frank to the location of Val's ship. So I'm gonna tell you a little bit about the spaceship now. It was 300 feet in diameter.
which is 91 meters, ⁓ three stories high, and it had a force field around it that rendered it invisible. Once Frank was inside, he noticed that the interior of the spaceship was interesting as because inside there were no sharp corners, no right angles, but there were also no visible light fixtures. Everything kind of had like a soft organic curve to it.
and everything also had a very slight glow about it. So rather than having like light bulbs in the ceiling to light everything up, everything was already a little bit lit up. So the interior was lit like very much from what was within it, if that makes sense.
Frank was taken to the ship's medical bay because he was injured from the fight. And he noted that there were no drugs in the medical bay. There were only natural remedies in there. And also a quote, very powerful laser type sun gun attached to the ceiling pointing down at like,
Kind of a memory foam examination table. Like it wasn't like a stainless steel table that people talk about sometimes in abduction stories. It was kind of like a big, like warm plastic memory foam thing. I pictured it as like cut, yeah, like a heated water mattress is what I pictured. Yeah. Honestly saying. dude, I want my cousins, my cousins did and I was so.
Kathryn (41:49)
That sounds nice.
Yeah, ooh, I want that.
Remember waterbeds? Oh my god. Did your parents have one? Oh.
Gina (42:03)
Actually, my cousin Jess who listens to this podcast had one. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kathryn (42:04)
My parents had one. Oh nice, nice. Yeah, my parents had one and boy oh boy was that fun to jump on. Oh god, that was so good.
Gina (42:14)
I believe it.
I wanted one so... Does anyone still have one? I haven't seen one of those in years.
Kathryn (42:20)
I don't know,
probably not, because I cannot imagine that's like good for your back. I don't think it is. It's too like, yeah.
Gina (42:27)
No. No, my back hurts on a regular bed. I don't feel like it would
be supportive enough.
Kathryn (42:34)
Yeah, I don't think it is. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Anyway, yeah. How's your back?
Gina (42:36)
I don't know. don't know. Anyway, Jess, tell us if you... I'm kidding. Just text me. Do you miss your waterbed?
What are you back doing?
Okay, yeah, so Frank lays down on this healing waterbed and he immediately falls asleep, just like we would. And he woke up feeling like a million bucks, like he was completely healed. After which Val visited Frank and told him, quote, it would behoove every honest UFO researcher and investigator to be warned that the men in black were in the business of destroying and discrediting good on the face of this planet. Their threat is truly real.
Kathryn (42:58)
Nice.
Gina (43:22)
there's a lot, lot, lot more that happens in Stranger at the Pentagon that we could talk about and over the course of Frank's other books as well. But I've already been talking about it for an hour. And we need to move on at some point. So as a reminder, everything I have told you up until this point comes only from Frank. He is the only source for all of it. And as you can imagine, the UFO community
has some pretty split opinions on the whole Valiant Thor thing. Is he real? What's the whole thing made up? If he is real, is Frank being honest about their experiences together? And I will say millions of people do believe everything that Frank said and millions of people don't for a lot of reasons. One of them is people get really suspicious about how much Christian theming there is in this story.
Not only because people think it's unlikely that aliens have the exact same religious system as one you could find on Earth, but also because some think that the story Frank tells about him and Valiant Thor sounds, and this is gonna sound harsh, but it sounds like a sci-fi themed Bible fan fiction that Frank wrote himself into. Because like the parallels between Val and Jesus are obviously there. Like they're both direct creations of God put on the earth to deliver salvation to humanity.
Kathryn (44:38)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Gina (44:48)
Both of them are rejected and ostracized by human powers that they appeal to. And so they both turn to the masses for help spreading their message. It's like the Jesus story. And even Nancy, from way back at the beginning, the one who introduces Frank to Val, is kind of narratively similar to like an archangel. in the same way that an angel appears to Mary before she meets God and tells her to not be afraid, Nancy?
Kathryn (44:57)
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Gina (45:17)
basically does the same thing with Frank. ⁓ And then Frank, you know, is left largely alone on the earth, barring a few miraculous interventions from Val to spread the word of a powerful being that lives in the sky, which is like very biblical, disciple So a lot of people think,
that what the story of Valiant Thor actually is, is it's just Frank's elaborate fantasy where he casts himself as the chosen disciple of alien Jesus. Like he's writing himself into a Bible narrative where he can be a hero, basically.
Kathryn (45:53)
Yeah that checks out.
Gina (45:55)
And then there are also those who refuse to believe him because, like I've said, he's the only source for this story and he made a lot of money by telling it. There has never been any corroboration from a credible government source, military official, or declassified document. It's all just Frank. And because of that, the credibility of this story relies on the credibility of the person telling it. And Frank's credibility
has been called into question a lot over the years. I mentioned at the beginning, Frank introduces himself in his work as having multiple PhDs, including ones in psychology and philosophy from Faith Theological Seminary in Fort Lauderdale. I could not find any evidence that that school offers PhDs in either of those fields. I will give the tiniest benefit of a doubt that maybe they did at some point.
Kathryn (46:48)
⁓
Gina (46:52)
but he also claimed that he got a PhD in criminology from the National Institute of Criminology in Washington, DC. And I couldn't find any evidence that that place even exists. I did find the National Institute of Justice, which like fine, maybe it changed its name at some point, but even that place doesn't offer PhDs and I can't find any record that they ever did. And none of the international institutions that Frank claimed to have attended have him listed in their alumni registries.
So his title of doctor appears to be a lie. There is no evidence that he ever held a PhD in any field.
Kathryn (47:29)
Interesting. Okay.
Gina (47:31)
Mm-hmm.
He also claimed to be the president of the International Theological Seminary of California, which is true. But what he doesn't mention is that that place was a diploma mill. For $25, anyone could enroll at the school and they would receive a doctorate in divinity. It's kind of like how... Yeah. I did too. Yeah. Happy how many years is it?
Kathryn (47:52)
Oh, that's good to know. I know, I just got my anniversary email the other day. Yeah, yeah, I meant to text you about it.
Six? Yeah.
Gina (48:01)
Six years being ordained, yeah.
Yeah, it was like that, but like way, way, way more bad because it was illegal. Like what Frank did was super illegal. And he wound up doing time for it. Like he only did a few months of time, but like he was found guilty of running a diploma mill. And then there's Frank's, yeah. And then there's Frank's relationship with NICAP In the early 60s, before Stranger at the Pentagon came out,
Kathryn (48:19)
I didn't know that was a thing.
Gina (48:30)
Frank was doing a talk at a UFO conference where he claimed to be a chief investigator for the National Investigations Committee on Aerial AKA NICAP, which was basically like a private UFO research organization. Their website still exists. It's like super 90s. I'll add it to the show notes. It's very fun. Yeah, me too. And Frank was a member of NICAP. He had purchased a membership, but he
Kathryn (48:49)
Ooh, love it.
Gina (48:56)
definitely was not an investigator. He was lying. And when NICAP heard about this, ⁓ they canceled his membership, returned the fees that he had paid, and disavowed any claims that they approved of him or his stories. So like even the hardcore alien slash UFO believers at kicked him to the curb, and that was before the Valiant Thor stuff even came out.
Kathryn (49:00)
Hmm.
Gina (49:23)
Of course, that did not stop Frank from continuing to claim that certain works of his were NICAP approved when they absolutely weren't, but NICAP disavowed him all the same. So this is painting a picture of a person who, to say the least, plays fast and loose with credibility signifiers and is really comfortable using shortcuts to get people to trust him. Two other things that I want to say about Frank's credibility.
Kathryn (49:40)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (49:49)
The first is that at one point he was under investigation by the FBI because they suspected that he had been impersonating an FBI officer. In the end, or sorry, FBI agent. In the end, they weren't able to prove anything, but the report from the FBI does say that Frank was, quote, to say the least, a promoter and a pseudo con man. And the second point that I want to make, well, I guess last point that I want to make.
is that before Frank published Stranger at the Pentagon, he had already released a few books about UFOs and been involved with at least two UFO documentaries, none of which mention Valiant Thor, despite coming out after Frank claims that they met and developed a relationship. I don't know about you, but if I was friends with an alien Jesus,
tasked me with spreading his word and knowledge of his existence, and then I went on to write books and make documentaries about aliens, I would probably mention my alien Jesus friend. Especially as how Frank positions his relationship with Val as one of, if not the most defining relationships of his life.
Kathryn (50:56)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (50:59)
Now I will say, after all of the shit that I just talked, there are people who have come out in defense of Frank, or at least people who say they believe the story that he tells or that he told. One of them was actually Canada's former Minister of Defense, Paul Hellyer. And that story goes that basically seven or so years ago, he did an Ask Me Anything on Reddit.
And during that AMA, he appeared to confirm that Valiant Thor lived at the Pentagon for a few years. But he also admitted that all of his information on this was secondhand and based on interviews that he'd heard and documents that he had read. So again, he's not adding any new information. He's not a primary source for this.
Another strong supporter of Frank's story is actually Laura Eisenhower, who is President Eisenhower's great granddaughter. But she also doesn't add any independent evidence to this conversation. like, this is oversimplifying it, but she's basically just like, yeah, I believe it. Which is like, that's fine. It's not nothing, but it's also not really something. You know what I mean? ⁓ And you know, I...
Kathryn (52:11)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Gina (52:14)
There is an argument to be made that like, you know, those in power maybe don't want us to believe Frank. And so they've gone out of their way to discredit him because they don't want us to know the truth. So maybe this is all just one big conspiracy against Frank. But in this case, in the context of this story and what we know about the person who told it, that does not land with me. What do you think?
Kathryn (52:41)
feel bad saying this, but now that I know about his lack of credentials, I believe that he was at the Pentagon with an alien. Because if there's one thing that gets you into the US government, it's a lack of credentials.
Gina (52:52)
Really?
You know what, you're too right. You are too right.
Kathryn (53:03)
Why the fuck not?
I was on the fence and now I'm just like, you know what? This probably checks out. It probably checks out. Yeah. That's my final thought.
Gina (53:08)
Ha ha ha ha.
That's so funny. Yeah,
why not? Why not? Sure, yeah.
Kathryn (53:20)
Honestly, so
genuinely, I don't know. See, I don't know that part of my journey this month is like ⁓ how much of these alien stories I believe, because all of the alien stories I have are rooted in like government conspiracy theories. You know, so I'm like,
Weirder things are happening at the Pentagon. So like, why the fuck not? It's not going to change anything if I just believe this story. Why not? That's where I am with it. Do I think that Jesus is hanging out in Venus? No. I'm pretty sure isn't Venus like, well, it doesn't matter because he's an alien. I was going to say, isn't it like not inhabitable, but like they're aliens. So
Gina (53:51)
Yeah
Yeah, mm-hmm,
Kathryn (54:08)
I do believe in aliens, but I don't know if I believe in the like weird guy in suit version of aliens. ⁓ But we'll more on that later this month. This is a journey I'm on this month. ⁓ I don't know. I don't disbelieve this entirely. I think that there are pieces of this story that are true. there are pieces of it that I'm just like.
Gina (54:23)
Yeah.
Kathryn (54:36)
Nah, not for me. Yeah.
Gina (54:39)
Yeah, yeah, I
agree. I believe in aliens and I was a little bit sad to discover that I don't believe in this and I don't believe what Frank is saying because the
Kathryn (54:49)
This feels, yeah,
sorry, go ahead.
Gina (54:52)
⁓ At first, I first heard about Valiant Thor, I listened to it on a podcast. think it was just ⁓ Conspiracy Theories might be the podcast's name. And I totally believed it at first, because I was like, yeah, hell yeah, there could be an alien at the Pentagon and none of us know. Hell yeah, man. And then I started researching what the actual story was. And I read the actual book. And I looked up Frank's actual alleged credentials. And I was like, OK, parts of this could be true, but I don't believe the man telling the story. So therefore, I don't believe the story.
Kathryn (54:59)
So nice.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Gina (55:20)
Like if somebody else came forward and said like, actually, yeah, there was like these things that I saw or here are some documents that might hint at XYZ, I would be more open-minded, but I feel like this was one massive con personally.
Kathryn (55:20)
Yeah.
My, yeah, I don't disbelieve that there are aliens being hidden by people at the Pentagon. I don't necessarily believe that Valiant Thor is one of them.
Gina (55:49)
Yeah, yeah. Because like at the end of the day, I'm gonna head into my outro here. Frank made his living from book sales and speaking engagements. So whether or not Valiant Thor really did exist, it was in Frank's best personal interest to say whatever he needed to say in order to make money. And I will not trust someone who is in that position.
Kathryn (56:13)
Yeah.
Gina (56:15)
At the end of the day, Frank made his living by telling this story for over 50 years until he passed away of natural causes in 2008. So whatever Frank was doing, whether or not his story was true, it clearly worked because he told a story that has long outlasted him.
if Frank was and is to be believed, Val still makes regular visits to Earth, and there remain quite a few undercover aliens living among us to this day.
Kathryn (56:46)
So, yeah.
Gina (56:48)
Sick. Yeah. So that's it. That's Valiant Thor. That's where I've been living in hell for the last ⁓ week. I am now.
Kathryn (56:49)
That's dope. Nice. I'm so sorry, okay? You like, yeah.
Well, thank you for sharing that story. I'm sorry that you had to live in that rabbit hole, because you're not like a conspiracy theory kind of like live in that head space type of person. so.
Gina (57:09)
I can usually pick
things up and put things down real easy. This was not one of them.
Kathryn (57:12)
Yeah,
you're not like fall down a conspiracy rabbit hole and like live there and like, yeah, you're not one.
Gina (57:20)
Yeah, and I just I do I
I really if if we all feel we have the mental fortitude I do recommend reading the book because it Just there is so much in there that I did not have space this could have easily been a three-part episode and So much of it too. I think is in the way that Frank writes the book like, know that thing where someone
Kathryn (57:29)
You
Yeah.
Gina (57:43)
is lying so they add like too much to specific detail.
Kathryn (57:47)
I was gonna ask about that because some of these stories, even the ones you shared were like so specific. even just the pointing at the lapel, I don't know why that felt so specific to me.
Gina (57:58)
that you point that one out because people often point to that anecdote as ⁓ evidence that Frank was lying because multiple times throughout his career, he changed that detail of the story. So in the version that I read, it was Lapel, ⁓ he at some points would say that he showed his empty hand like Val did and Val projected something on there.
Kathryn (58:06)
Mm.
Okay.
Yeah.
Gina (58:23)
In other versions of his story, he'll open his ⁓ suit jacket as if there's something, like an ID badge hanging on the inside. And it completely depends on when he's telling the story and who he's telling it to. And so people point at that as like, he's making this shit up. Like this didn't really happen.
Kathryn (58:40)
Yeah. Yeah, I don't believe it anymore. That's exactly it.
Gina (58:42)
Because you could just leave that out. Like you could just say, yeah, you know what I mean?
Kathryn (58:45)
Interesting. Okay. Well, here you go. Our first alien episode. What a doozy. My God. Yikes, a moly. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, that's a big one. Cool.
Gina (58:45)
Yeah.
Yeah, I know, I'm so sorry. And also, I'm so relieved I don't have to know all of that alone anymore. Not that I was alone, because other people know.
Do you have
a scary?
Kathryn (59:05)
I do.
got a message from one of our Instagram followers detailing their experience staying at the Stanley Hotel. Yes, yes. So they were listening to the episode, I think like either on their way to the hotel or, you know, coming back from
Gina (59:18)
Oh yay, okay cool.
Kathryn (59:30)
They had commented saying that it was like the perfect episode to listen around their trip to the Stanley. So I asked for, you I asked her to send information after she stayed there and she responded. This message is from Kelsey. It says long messages ahead. LOL, which it's not that long. So we're good. And even if they are long, feel free to send us whatever you have. OK, so it says.
stayed last night at the Stanley Hotel and we checked out this morning. A little backstory is that we live about two and a half hours from Estes and go to the mountains often.
soon as we checked in, my husband felt a heavy and kind of nauseous feeling. He is a believer in paranormal activity, so we instantly connected it to that versus altitude sickness. I surprised my husband with this day and he at first didn't want to stay here because we had our kids with us and he didn't want to see anything or experience anything paranormal.
which I totally get, but I'm also like, start them young, man. That's fine. Coincidentally, we stayed in room 215. There are ghost tours happening all the time and my husband got to sit in on one outside our room and they said that Elizabeth Wilson is the one who took care of 217, 215, 219, and 213.
Gina (1:00:35)
Hmm.
Kathryn (1:01:02)
She was the housekeeper that did have the gas explosion and went through the floor of 217, but she did live and continued to work there up until her death at 91, which I did not know she worked there that long. That's a very long time. So they dedicated room 321 to her. We also watched Ghost Adventures prior to coming and they dedicated 428 to the cowboy attic, 401 to the Lord
Dunraven Suite and 413 as the Haberdasher Suite. I don't know what Haberdasher is, but Lord Dunraven, I think, is the guy I mentioned, like, very briefly at the end that, like, originally, not originally, but, like, ⁓ owned the land that he sold, I think, to the Stanleys. I could be wrong on that, but he was, a former owner of the land. I mentioned him at the very, very end, but I don't think I mentioned his name. I think that's who it was.
Gina (1:01:48)
Okay.
Kathryn (1:02:00)
She says, the fourth floor definitely gave me the creeping vibes and it doesn't help that the hallways are narrow compared to the other floors on the fourth floor. As far as paranormal activity, we both believe that it is very haunted. However, we think that if you do go there looking for that, then you'll see something. My husband couldn't sleep because every time he tried, he started to hear tapping sound like someone was tapping on
the wood. And then when he, yeah, and then when he finally did fall asleep, he had nightmares.
Gina (1:02:31)
Nuh-uh.
Kathryn (1:02:37)
When I checked out, they told me that before remodeling rooms 215 and 217 used to be one big room. So technically we did stay in room 217. You both definitely should stay there, 10 out of 10 experience. So yeah.
Gina (1:02:53)
Hell yeah.
Kathryn (1:02:55)
So nothing like extreme, but I think that we need to land on the tapping of the wood and the nightmares a little harder because damn, what the hell? Super cool that they, he got to sit on a freaking ghost tour. That's exciting. I'm like genuinely jealous of that. Cause remember, I don't know if I mentioned that in the episode, but like I missed out on the ghost tour by like literally one spot. I'm very jealous. That's very cool. Cause of the freaking family reunion or whatever the hell.
Gina (1:03:00)
Yeah.
I know.
Yeah.
Yeah, because of that massive family who's overpopulating the earth.
Kathryn (1:03:24)
Yeah. So that's very cool.
Gina (1:03:26)
Yeah. ⁓ man, I want to know more about his nightmare.
Kathryn (1:03:30)
I know me too, Kelsey, if you, if he's comfortable sharing, please let us know what nightmares he had. It may have been one of those, you know, you know, you have a nightmare and it wasn't a good dream, but like, can't remember exactly what it was. But yeah, I love all the detail in the room and just the fact that like, she felt that weird creeping vibe, you know, throughout the hotel. Cause like, you can definitely feel that the moment you walk in, but it's hard to explain.
Gina (1:03:40)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kathryn (1:04:00)
unless you're there, because it could easily be altitude sickness, but it's like when you're there and you're looking for something spooky, it's like, man, it really feels like more than that. It's hard to explain unless you experience. It's just one of those places. So really cool to have someone to confirm that who actually stayed the whole night.
Gina (1:04:04)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
We have to go there together. So I'm envisioning a little mini road trip where we drive there and on the way there, let's stop somewhere where we'll for sure get altitude sickness and then we'll ride that out and then we'll go to the Stanley and see. Get it out of our system. It's like a chicken pox party. Yeah.
Kathryn (1:04:20)
I know.
Yeah, that's good idea.
Just get it out, yeah. Yeah, box party. Okay, smart.
All right, well, if any of you out there have been to the Stanley, had a ghost experience, experienced altitude sickness, let us know. iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com. We would also love for you to leave us a five-star rating and review wherever you listen to us. That's the best way to help us beat that algorithm and bring you more content.
If you do send us your rating and mailing address and we will send you a free sticker And yeah until next time little spoons. Keep it cool
Gina (1:05:18)
Keep it creepy.
