74: The Bennington Triangle
Gina (00:11)
Hey, hi, welcome to I Scream You Scream, your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories, mysteries, and paranormal perplexities. My name's Gina.
Kathryn (00:20)
Kathryn
Gina (00:21)
And in April, we're talking about aliens while we have ice cream that involves something green. Today's episode is sponsored by CloBare you are ready to start investing, but unsure of how to get started, go ahead and go to getlazynow.com. You shan't regret it. But until then, grab a spoon and let's dig in.
Kathryn (00:43)
Yay!
Gina (00:44)
Still rocking with the lime and sprinkles. Nice.
Kathryn (00:46)
Yes, you know I will be. You know I am.
Are you the same thing this week?
Gina (00:54)
Yes, but a much smaller scoop because I took way too much last time and I didn't eat most of it and so a lot of it melted and by the end it looked like ectoplasm or something.
Kathryn (01:06)
Yeah,
I feel like we used to be very good scoop size ⁓ as it relates to who is speaking the majority of the time. And I'm not going to speak for you, but I'm not good at that anymore. Like, forget when it's my... Yeah. We also originally planned this so that whoever had news would be the person that was not talking.
Gina (01:15)
Yeah.
Me neither, I don't know what happened.
Kathryn (01:33)
that day and now we're just like, have news. Yes, it's fine.
Gina (01:34)
Yeah. I have things to tell you. I think that's okay. It's okay to be a few
bites of ice cream podcast. That's fine.
Kathryn (01:43)
Yes, better than no bites of ice cream podcast. know, speaking of being the one with an episode and having news, I have news. It's not so much news as it is a recommendation. I'm not sure if I've talked to you about this before. I'm sure I have, but
Gina (01:46)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm!
Kathryn (01:59)
I want to be more like noisy about it now that you are this giant horror fan. Have you watched the show from?
Gina (02:07)
No, what's that?
Kathryn (02:09)
so fucking good. Dude, I honestly, if I've not mentioned it to you, it is because it is one of the scariest things I've ever seen, but it's only because it has like every single horror element known to mankind. It has weird, type nighttime people. It's got a creepy doll. It's got a weird music box. It's got like a
Gina (02:25)
Okay.
Kathryn (02:35)
stuck in a place you can't get out of. It's got like all the creepy things. It is... I'm obsessed with it. I literally have on the calendar the fact that season four premieres on Sunday, April 19th. Like it's on the calendar I share with Phil. His co-worker recommended it I think just last year or maybe two years ago we blew through the whole thing and
Gina (03:03)
Okay.
Kathryn (03:03)
just are so obsessed. So we're coming on the fourth season. I think they have said they previously stated they are doing it's like a five and done. They will not extend it. The series will be done after five seasons. And a lot of people were really hesitant about this show at first because it's by I think it's created by the people who did lost. If not,
There are like some of the same people are involved, like the same actor is the main guy. It's just like a whole thing. There's a lot of crossover. it's a very out there. Where is this going? What's going to happen type of show. So a lot of people were like, you have a plan, right? Like there's an end game here. Like, you know where this is going. Showrunners have promised there is an end game. We will not change it. You know, it's not.
Gina (03:28)
wow.
Kathryn (03:54)
It's like we promise it'll be good this time essentially. Yeah.
Gina (03:58)
respect that. I respect when
shows are allowed to end. You know what mean?
Kathryn (04:03)
Mm-hmm.
it's so good. The writing is so good. every single episode is just horrendous. It's one of those shows where
It's super atmospheric and creepy and you never really know what's going on. But also the character development is divine. The dialogue is great. The writing is beautiful. Like, it's just such a great show all around. And I want to time stamp this in case it becomes bad. I am saying this pre-season four, so I do not know how it ends. Thus far, it is so, good.
Gina (04:19)
.
Kathryn (04:40)
It's so.
Gina (04:42)
have two questions. Okay, so is it like a linear plot or is it episodic? Like is there a different story in each episode or is it one continuous? Okay, okay, sick. Love that.
Kathryn (04:43)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
No, it's linear. Yeah, it's all one story.
like one episode you'll focus on one thing more than the other, but it's not like an analog show.
Gina (05:02)
Okay, okay, sick. And how is it for jump scares?
Kathryn (05:06)
it's jumpy. Yeah, it's scary. It's a scary show. But I think so it starts heavier on the jump scare and then it goes deeper into like the psyche. And then it's more like creep scare. Yeah.
Gina (05:17)
Okay.
Okay, because I can deal
with a psyche and a creep scare, I think. So maybe I'll start watching it during the day. And then, okay, okay. Okay, sweet.
Kathryn (05:26)
Mm you must. Yeah, it's terrifying. It is part of
it was like why I was like I need to go on a nighttime journey because it has made me horrendously afraid of the dark because it's this is not a spoiler. You this is like a episode one. The bad things come out at night. It's like there is like a a town wide curfew situation. Yeah. that's not all. There's so many more bad things. That's just like the you like come in real hot with that one.
Gina (05:50)
Okay.
Kathryn (05:53)
here.
Gina (05:54)
Is it based on anything, like a book or something?
Kathryn (05:56)
my God, I you meant like a true story. was like, I hope not, holy shit. ⁓ No, no, it's ⁓ an original story, which I love. I feel like that's part of why I'm so obsessed with it because it is one of the most creative stories I've seen in a while. Like it is a very good, it's so good. my God, it's a very good show. Yeah, I love it.
Gina (05:58)
Hahaha
Nice, okay, cool.
Okay, excellent. and I are just about to...
Speaking of shows that ended horribly, we're just about to finish a Game of Thrones rewatch. So once that's done...
Kathryn (06:23)
So many
people are rewatching that and I don't know why because everyone's like still so mad about how it ended
Gina (06:31)
yes once we're done with that and once we're done with The Pitt because we are tearing through The Pitt We're watching that so fast. So once once that's all done. We'll watch from
Kathryn (06:38)
Yeah, I have c-
I have coworkers that are obsessed with The Pitt and have been like told that I need to watch it, but it's so far down on my list of things I need to watch that I'm like, that's one that I would watch without Phil and he's way more of a TV guy than I am. So I'm like, just realistically, the chances of me getting to that anytime soon is very low, but I am curious about it because so everyone who watches it is obsessed with The Pit.
And I just, don't know really anything about it.
Gina (07:08)
Yeah, I mean...
It
is incredibly good. The characters are phenomenally well written. It is so insightful into the issues facing the American healthcare system and the real world impact they are having on medical practitioners and also patients.
Kathryn (07:20)
Mmm.
Gina (07:28)
very good. So I do recommend, but it's not like a drop everything you're watching. You have to see this piece of art immediately. It is wonderful, but it can wait.
Kathryn (07:31)
Okay.
We, didn't intend to bring this up, but I'm like in my brain, I'm trying to gauge where I am. I was just telling someone the other day that I am in a space where I do need to start consuming more uplifting media because I've just been watching, reading and listening to nothing but just really devastating and horrific things. But we did just start watching last night, the mini series, something very bad is going to happen. That's a literally the title of this. I was like, so I will start that.
Gina (07:51)
Hmm.
⁓ hmm, okay.
Kathryn (08:08)
pleasant consumption journey after we finish this because I cannot imagine that's got a good ending, but I will report back.
Gina (08:11)
Yes.
If that
has a happily ever after, I think that might be false advertising. I also, yeah, I have some. Actually, I have a recommendation. ⁓ I don't know if it's available in the US, to be completely honest, but over the weekend, Tom and I went to a witch market that they do a monthly witch market at Anathema, that witchy shop that I told you about, the esoteric place. And while we were there this time, I
Kathryn (08:20)
Truly.
What else do you have for me?
Yes.
Yes!
Gina (08:44)
⁓ saw a table with a bunch of really amazing earrings and I met the woman who makes them and they're just like the cutest earrings. She has ones that are like ⁓ little like ducklings, like rubber ducklings, or ones that are like little soy sauce packets. They're just like all this really fun, interesting things. And so I got a pair and they're little pastas, little bow tie pastas.
Kathryn (09:00)
Boy, that's so cute.
Stop! I'm
obsessed. That is so cute. I love that.
Gina (09:12)
They're so cute. So yes,
⁓ huge shout out to Cherry Moon Accessories on Instagram. Her handle is CherryMoonUK. Everyone should go totally follow her and support her because her earrings are amazing, but also she was incredibly nice and clearly so proud and like in love with her work, but not in a alienating way. Like it was just clear she was really passionate about it and excited about it. So I wanted to give her a shout out.
Kathryn (09:26)
fun.
Love that.
Yeah. ⁓
I love that pasta noodle earrings. That's adorable. I love that.
Gina (09:43)
Yeah,
Alright man, what are we talking about today? What's the deal?
Kathryn (09:47)
Okay, we are talking about the Bennington Triangle, not to be confused with the Bridgewater Triangle, which I have over and over again throughout the entire duration of us kind of having this podcast. So since the beginning, I've been confusing them. But we are talking about the Bennington Triangle ⁓ in southwestern Vermont. Bridgewater is in Massachusetts.
Gina (09:55)
You
Hahahaha
Kathryn (10:12)
They are very similar. I am, you know, for anyone out there who's familiar with one or the other, there is a lot of overlap. That's something maybe we'll talk about someday. Maybe not. Who knows? Maybe we'll do like a topic on triangles. Who knows? Anyway, so. Wait, that'd be so fun, actually. We could get creative with that one.
Gina (10:27)
shapes.
That would...
We could get really... Okay, that's actually... I like that idea. That could be really fun.
Kathryn (10:38)
Yeah, we'll talk after. Okay. Okay, so the Bennington Triangle, it's not like an official spot on the map. It doesn't have any official like outlined borders that you can physically see. It's kind of just a generally defined area that stretches between the towns of Bennington, Woodford, and Shaftesbury.
Gina (10:40)
Okay.
Kathryn (11:04)
Shaftesbury? I don't know how any of these are pronounced. Sorry, it's New England. I feel like there's a lot of like English names going on that I like feel inclined to say in a British accent, but it's in Vermont, so I don't actually know how it's pronounced. These are all probably like Americanized names of something else going on. Anyway, the center of all of these towns is Glastonbury Mountain and the name Bennington Triangle
Gina (11:15)
Do it. ⁓
Kathryn (11:32)
was originally coined by a man named Joseph Citro. Joseph was born and raised in Vermont ⁓ and he lived there all his life. I believe he still lives there, he's still around. he, just as a little background on him, he got his start as a horror novelist, but is now known for writing about kind of like the strange and unusual goings on throughout Vermont and the greater New England region.
including but not limited to paranormal legends, strange folklore, Occult activity and of course, UFO sightings. some of his most notable works are books like Weird New England and The Vermont Monster Guide. So he's just one of those guys that writes like the spooky books about the regional
areas, you know, and he became known as like the guy on Spooky Vermont. But just because Joseph gave the area its popular name and kind of made it, I will say, little more well known across the greater United States, it doesn't mean that he's the first one to ever notice strange happenings in the area.
is said that the Abenaki people were known to avoid that specific
region, more specifically the mountain, and they did so out of both reverence and fear. It is said that a particular benevolent god, believe his name is pronounced Glouskabe. Glouskabe? I'm not totally sure. Sorry, I tried. This is another one that I looked it up extensively and I'm like, I don't know. I think it's Glouskabe.
Gina (14:13)
You're getting some really hard
names.
Kathryn (14:16)
Okay, thank you so much. I'm like rolling through real confidently, but real sorry about everything I'm saying to anyone who knows how they're actually pronounced. But anyways, so this Gluskabe guy, he was a god from the Abenaki stories.
He taught them how to run like a civilized society, essentially. He taught them about art and culture and just like how to be good people, essentially. And then he would stand guard to protect them from the malevolent spirits that were like in and around to the area. The mountain is often thought to be shaped a little bit like a seat.
And it is thought that Gloucabé would sit atop the mountain to protect them Like that's where he would guard the area. beyond just Gloucabé, there are numerous legends. Some of them come from actual Abenaki oral traditions. Others are what we know and love as fake lore. ⁓ But one of the main things that people
Gina (15:18)
Hmm.
Kathryn (15:22)
kind of came to realize about the land is the fact that it feels very spiritually charged, I will say. You know when you just go in one of those areas and you're like, something's not quite right here? So that kind of led to the legends of the land being cursed or spiritually dangerous or just any number of things.
One of the key stories that I want to talk about about the mountain specifically is the fact that it is said if you stand in a specific spot near the peak of the mountain, there is a rock. And if you stand on the rock, the mountain will allegedly swallow you up. So you just disappear out of thin air. I know I knew you would love that. Yes. Yep. This is right off the bat. One of the stories that
Gina (16:04)
Awesome!
Kathryn (16:09)
Again, could be anything, but it has led to many alien theories because it's like, is the mountain swallowing you? Are you like falling into the underworld or is it more of like a beam me up Scotty situation and are you getting like zipped in It is also said that there are numerous strange animal sightings on and around the mountain itself.
and just the general region that creates that triangle shape, which the Abenaki people attributed to being what they called a, okay, here we go, a bookwood zemon, a bookwood zemon. But in recent decades, the name has been anglicized into Pukwudji. Have you heard of a Pukwudji?
Gina (16:54)
have heard of a pukwudgie. Okay.
Kathryn (16:56)
That's wild. Okay. I feel like their story
is kind of like sprinkled around and like woven into stories from this region. But basically, for those who don't know, a pukwudgie is a little kind of human-like being similar to an elf or a fairy. And they're generally harmless unless they feel threatened or disrespected. Then they'll fuck with you and like fuck you up. The way they're spoken about...
Gina (17:23)
you
Kathryn (17:24)
now is very much, ⁓ it is suspected that they are like a cryptid or part of the fey. But again, many people believe that they could also be a specific type of alien species that has settled in the area. It's not thought that there's just one singular pukwudji. There's like a bunch of them sprinkled throughout the land.
Gina (17:48)
obsessed with that. I didn't know that. That's so cool.
Kathryn (17:50)
I know. Yeah.
Yeah. Because I've heard of them being Faye and I've heard of them also. I didn't know they were kind of woven into cryptid lore because I've heard of them being Faye and alleged alien people, but I didn't know that they were like a Bigfoot situation who also has been spotted in the area. But yeah, we could probably do a whole episode on Pukwudgies. Oh, really?
Gina (18:08)
⁓ Huh.
almost did one time, like way back in
the early days. Yeah, I almost did. I think it was, I can't remember what month it was for, but it was one of those where like I researched it for a few minutes and then was like, this is a rabbit hole, I don't have time to go down.
Kathryn (18:27)
Yes.
Yeah, exactly. That's why this is the extent that we're talking about Pukwudgies, because like there are a lot of sightings and they could be anything. And I'm like, OK, this is an alien episode. So I'm just landing on that part of their story. But it's good to know that like their story is older than just modern times. Like there are ancient stories about what did I say they were called? Bookwood Zeman Bookwood Zeman.
before they were known as Pukwudgies. anyway, these are just some of the many, many, many, many, many Abenaki stories that have influenced people's thoughts on the land. But beyond just the legends, it is said that even to this day, the area has an incredibly strange vibe. This wasn't something that just, you know, people moved into the area and it was
totally fine and everyone got over it. It's still to this day an area where people feel kind of uneasy and believe that they could be on, like I said, spiritually charged ground.
When Glastonbury was settled as a logging community in the 1800s, it didn't ever really thrive. It never really got off the ground and wasn't super economically successful. So it wasn't long before that caused everyone to kind of move out and move on. And it did eventually become a ghost town, which added to the region's mystique and lore and, you know, almost I'm going to say proof.
of cursed land.
It's one of those places where people can feel very disoriented and kind of confused while hiking the area. Even people who are super experienced and familiar with the region will sometimes say that they get kind of out of focus and
almost loopy, like they've lost time and they don't really know where they're going and they don't know what's happening when deep down they're like, yes, I do. I've been hiking these trails for years. It's like sometimes people will experience just this weird out of body don't know who or what's going on type situation. It is, of course, one of those places where numerous reports of the woods suddenly going silent take place. That happens quite a bit up there.
Gina (20:41)
you
Kathryn (20:43)
To top it off, there have been numerous UFO sightings. I didn't pull any specific UFO.
⁓ sighting stories because they're so frequent. It's just like people will be outside and it's like, there's another weird blinking light over and you know what I mean? Like it's just very, very prevalent. to this day, I mean, it happens all the time. It's just such a hotspot for strange sightings and occurrences in general. And one of them happens to be UFO and alien related stories.
Gina (20:57)
Yeah.
Kathryn (21:14)
One of the reasons this area has been suspected of being like a hot spot of strangeness is just what I'm going to call it because I don't know what else to call it. Almost feels like hell mouthy, you know, like there's just something going on in that area that is like attracting weird things from cryptids to spirits to aliens to all of this stuff. One of the things contributing to this theory
Gina (21:26)
Yeah.
Kathryn (21:37)
is a five-year period of time where there was a slew of disappearances in the area that to this day have no answer and many, many, of them like literally provided no clues whatsoever to the point where it felt very, you know, supernatural, paranormal, extraterrestrial, whatever you want to call it. So I'm going to roll through those content warning.
for missing people, that is a big part of this story. We'll go through them. Some of them have potentially logical explanations. Some of them I fall down massive rabbit holes and genuinely am like, could be aliens. I really don't know, but I will tell you about them now and we can decide for ourselves. So it all started in November of 1945 when a man named Midi Rivers,
Gina (22:26)
Sweet.
Kathryn (22:34)
for like pause on the name because that's one of the best names I think we've ever discussed, Midi Rivers, perfection. He set out on a hunting trip near Bickford Hollow, which is on kind of the southern end of the mountain.
Gina (22:36)
Great name. A wonderful name.
Kathryn (22:49)
Midi was an expert outdoorsman and he knew the Vermont wilderness like the back of his hand. He was nearly 75 and he had spent decades navigating the woods as both a hunter and a fishing guide. And on that particular day, he was with a small group of people, which included his son-in-law. And at some point,
Rivers moved ahead on the trail. I'm not sure if it was like, you know, the group was taking a break and he was going to go up ahead and see what was going on or if he was just faster than everyone. I don't know. But for whatever reason, he was gaining a lot of ground on the rest of the group and.
This wasn't really concerning to anyone because he was very experienced and they were all together and there was a very clear trail that they were following. They were not like climbing through trees and up ravines and all that. They were just like out for a hike situation. So nobody felt unsafe with him moving ahead of the group,
As time went on, they continued to not catch up with him and they started to worry.
By around four o'clock that afternoon, they had finished their outing and they still hadn't seen him anywhere. They hadn't heard anything suspicious. They didn't notice anything strange. He just was nowhere. He was nowhere to be seen. So even though he was experienced, this was incredibly strange. So their concern grew pretty significantly.
They searched the immediate area calling out for him, searching around and based on where they were, where they were headed, where they had come from, everywhere they were hiking, he should have been able to hear them from where he presumably was if he was just, because he wasn't like leaving the premises. He was just supposed to be a little bit up on the trail. So there was no reason he would have not
been in that area and if he fell and got hurt or if something happened, they were close enough that they should have been able to hear him screaming, you know? So they cannot find him. Nothing is turning up. So they go into the town of Bennington to try and find some help. And at that point, a large scale search party was formed and hundreds, like the whole town worth of volunteers came out to look with him, along with soldiers.
from nearby Fort Devons and they looked for him for days and they never found a single thing. They never found a clue. They never found a footprint. There was nothing. There was nothing indicating that he had even been in the area except for one thing and that was a rifle cartridge that was believed to belong to a gun that he had, but we do not know for sure.
That was literally just the only thing that they found, yeah.
Gina (25:46)
Interesting.
Okay, and did they find it? Do you know, was it like close to where he should have been?
Kathryn (25:55)
don't think it was where he should have been, but it was somewhere that he could have been if something had happened. but even that, there was like, no, someone would have heard a gunshot. You know, yeah.
Gina (26:08)
That's why I was asking, because I was like, if
he would have been close enough for them to hear him call out, they definitely would have heard a gun. All right, interesting.
Kathryn (26:13)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so it
was definitely within a spot where they for sure would have heard the gun if he had shot. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. So really nothing else came from it because. we don't know for sure that it was even his. It could have been from any number of hunters and like any number of days.
Gina (26:21)
Okay. Ooh, that's spooky. All right.
Kathryn (26:36)
over a year later, we have our second disappearance. In December 1946, an 18-year-old woman named Paula Jean Weldon left Bennington College, where she was going to school, and she left the campus for an afternoon hike. told her roommate that she was just going to walk a small part of what is called the Long Trail.
This trail, I looked it up. It's like hundreds and hundreds of miles of like winding trail. And she was just going to go casually walk a small part of it. I'm just like, of course, a story about presumed aliens would start this way.
Gina (27:07)
wow.
Kathryn (27:14)
She leaves her dorm around mid afternoon. It is said that it was around three or four o'clock in the afternoon, I think closer to three. So remember it's December and she's going on a hike. So that's pretty late. Yeah. So I think it was closer to like three, hopefully, I don't know. But many people saw her that day. She was like accounted for for a large part of her hike.
Gina (27:25)
Yeah!
Kathryn (27:41)
She was incredibly recognizable because she was wearing a bright red parka and then sneakers and jeans. So she was technically dressed for the weather. She was dressed for like daytime weather in December. December is not the coldest it gets in Vermont. So it's like, okay, maybe if it was not predicted to snow, I could understand that she wouldn't be in like boots and leggings and all that kind of stuff, but certainly not dressed for a late night.
like if anything happened, she was not in a situation where she would be safe in that clothing. So kind of recognizable. If people knew she was out for a hike, they would recognize it. Okay, she's in a bright red coat and like inappropriate footwear. You know what mean? So people when later asked, people remembered her vividly. one of the people that...
Gina (28:25)
Yeah.
Kathryn (28:34)
accounted for her when later asked was an employee at a gas station who reported seeing a young woman that matched her description pass by. she had apparently hitchhiked to the trailhead because the person who picked her up and took her as far as the beginning of the trail also came forward and said, like, yes, I saw her. I was with her. I dropped her off here and then she went on her way. So one of the
theories of her going missing was the fact that she was hitchhiking. But that's often kind of brushed aside right away because if you were kidnapping someone while hitchhiking, you probably wouldn't admit to seeing them. Maybe you would. I don't know. Regardless, even after she was dropped off, people did see her. People on the trail saw her. So that's another reason that was kind of brushed aside.
Gina (29:16)
Yeah.
Kathryn (29:27)
There was a group of hikers that she stopped to talk to along the One of the people in the group did note that they were concerned with the way she was dressed just because, it was getting later by the time she was out there and properly hiking that they were they noticed that she wasn't properly dressed. And the reason I keep bringing up the kind of improper.
clothing for the weather is just right off the bat because she was from the area and she like presumably knew Vermont weather and all of that. People thought it was strange that she felt the need to go on a hike so late in the afternoon to begin with. I don't know if there's anything necessarily like paranormal or extraterrestrial with that, but that is a question mark that people have right off the bat because she never said that she was going to meet anyone or
do anything like she just casually was like, I'm gonna go for a walk and like, headed on out, you know, which is pretty strange for someone who's familiar with the area, you know?
Gina (30:30)
Yeah, I don't think it's like too crazy though, she was 18, she was living in a dorm, like maybe her roommate was just annoying her or something, you know? Like, there are reasons.
Kathryn (30:33)
Yeah, that's I was going to say that. Yeah, yeah,
exactly. ⁓ Yeah, I agree, especially in December. If this was like mid February where it's like there's three feet of snow on the ground, it'd be a little bit more. A little stranger, but yeah, it's just something that people get hung up on. And I'll talk about the clothing in a little bit, too. There is another reason that it's brought up.
Gina (30:48)
Yeah.
Kathryn (31:01)
With all that being said, the last person who saw her was a man who had a cabin very close to the trailhead. he, I'm going to mention it one more time. He did warn her or he claimed that he warned her that she was not like, it was too late. It was going to get too cold. She should turn back and go home because the weather was going to plummet. And he did claim that she like didn't heed his warning. She just
went on the trail and continued going. And that was the last confirmed interaction that she had had with anybody. Her roommate wasn't super concerned when she didn't first come back. Just because, you know, like she left a little later in the afternoon, it's possible that she'd come back after the roommate went to sleep. But she was very concerned when she wasn't there the next morning, because that was very unlike her to not come back, just like be gone overnight. So.
She contacted her parents, got the school involved, and a search effort very quickly commenced, I'll say. But it was kind of a mess from the start because there was a huge lack of organization. And what I find really interesting, this doesn't really have anything to do with aliens, but fun fact, Vermont didn't have a state police force at the time that this happened.
Gina (32:20)
Really? ⁓
Kathryn (32:20)
Nineteen four. Yeah, this was
1946. They did not have a state police. That's why the soldiers got involved in the last missing person story, because there was no just standard police. Yeah. So I bring that up because it was just super disorganized and people were like, young female college student missing in the woods. They were like, that's bad news. So like everyone was taking it very, very seriously. Hundreds and hundreds of students, locals.
people from the college all got together and were searching all over the place for her. And that is the, this is the missing persons case that did, Vermont to get a police force. Similar to the last one, not a single clue was ever found.
of her. She was never seen again. There were no clues. They couldn't find anything. It was just nothing from start to finish. the first two of five missing persons cases could be attributed to kind of logical things, either like a natural occurrence, like maybe there was a medical something or other, got disoriented and lost in the woods.
Any number of things could have been something more sinister. I'm not convinced that the creepy guy in the cabin didn't have anything to do with it, but there is no proof. I'm not going to accuse anyone of doing anything. just like. Wish they had a police force at the time is all I'm saying,
Gina (33:38)
Yeah
Yeah.
Kathryn (33:49)
But it was the next three that kind of tipped people off to something a little stranger going on. And then they kind of retrospectively looked back at these two and were like, hey, wonder if those have anything to do with like paranormal or extraterrestrial or whatever.
There was about three years between Paula's case and the next case, which was in 1949, a 68 year old man named James Tedford was traveling via bus to get back to the Vermont soldiers home in Beddington. Bennington? Did it sound like I said Beddington? Sorry. Yeah, I like said Bennington, but it came out Beddington. Sorry. Bennington. Okay.
Gina (34:31)
It did,
Kathryn (34:39)
So he was a World War II vet. So he was staying at the Vermont Soldier's home and he had been visiting family and he boarded a bus to get back and they made several stops along the way, but numerous people could account for him. Pretty much everyone on the bus vouched for the fact that he was there. He had been talking to people on the bus, made a few friends, like acquaintances, bus traveling buddies, whatever you want to call them.
And ⁓ people were 100 % positive that they saw him get back on the bus at the last stop before the final stop at Bennington. But when the bus arrived in Bennington, James was not there. He was not on the bus. He was literally just nowhere to be found. And his belongings were there. His suitcase was in his seat. He had a folded up map.
in his seat and even his ticket was there, which he needed to get back on the bus at each of the stops. So presumably if he was at the last stop, he would have his ticket with him and his ticket was in his seat. Everybody questioned about James.
disappearance confirmed that he had been on that bus in that last leg of the trip. it just like that's pretty much the story. Like he he was completely unaccounted for after the bus got back to Bennington. He just simply vanished. There really wasn't much of a case on that because like.
there was nowhere to look like they looked on the bus. They looked on the route. They looked in the towns that they stopped at. And there just wasn't, you know, the most logical thing would be if he just like didn't get back on the bus. But people were absolutely 100 percent positive that they saw him. If he like. I'm like, this is a stretch, but if he like jumped out the window or something crazy like that, like.
Gina (36:40)
That's what I was thinking.
Kathryn (36:42)
They would have found that would have been easy to spot that there would have been like a person on the side of the road that people would have seen, you know. This particular missing persons case is like not as in depth.
Gina (36:45)
Yeah!
Yeah.
Kathryn (36:57)
As the other ones, because it's like, that's really all it is. He was supposed to be on the bus. He wasn't. Nobody knows where he went and there's no clues or anything. I don't even know if they opened an investigation because it was like.
Gina (37:07)
Man, the lack of detail in that is very unsettling. mean, all of these are unsettling. That is very unsettling.
Kathryn (37:08)
Like, yes.
It's very unsettling and this was the one, I don't wanna say the one again, it's like a collection of all of them are like, this is super weird that none of them have any clues whatsoever. But this is the one that was like, what the hell? Like, where did he go? He just was never seen again, simply. That's it, end of story.
Gina (37:35)
and to leave all of his stuff behind. Like why?
Kathryn (37:37)
Yeah, because at first when I was reading this, I was like, okay, maybe he just stayed at the last stop. He was like, I don't want to go. Like maybe he found a new place to stay. You know what I mean? But he had none of his stuff. had nothing. And it's like, if he was, let's say he was left behind, like the bus left without him, it's not like he was in middle of nowhere. Like he could have called his family, you know?
Gina (37:43)
Yeah.
That's terrifying.
Kathryn (38:02)
So that's a super weird one.
following fall, October of 1950, another person disappeared. And this one, I hate all of them, but this one's a little rough because it's an eight-year-old boy and his name is Paul Jepson. Yeah, I know. I just, I hate when kids go missing. So he had been with his mother all day. Some people say that they saw them at the dump that his family managed and also at home.
Gina (38:15)
God.
Kathryn (38:29)
on the family farm, which I do have to comment on because I kind of love, I feel like there's poetry in the two jobs that this family had. It's like the full life cycle of things, a farm and a dump. Like, I don't know, there's something, there's a metaphor in there somewhere. ⁓ Yeah, yes, exactly. But yeah, it's often referred to as like conflicting stories, but it is possible that they were seen at both places. You can be at both home and
Gina (38:39)
Yeah. That's a consumer life cycle metaphor. Yeah.
Kathryn (38:57)
your place of employment in one day. Hopefully you are both places and you're not just at work all day. Anyway, so at some point, I don't have details on this. I looked as hard as I could and there were like conflicting things on this. I don't know exactly where this happened, if it was at the dump on the farm or what was happening. But at some point his mother left him alone and it was like the classic
like I took my eye off him for a single second type situation, when she came back, he was gone, which could be a red flag to something strange. Could be just an eight year old boy alive on this earth because those guys are slippery little beings.
is every mother's worst nightmare. She had last seen him wearing a red jacket, which is a connection that people make to the Paula case. Don't know if there's anything there, but that is something that conspiracy theorists have drawn a connection to. The other strange thing is the time of day. All of these stories
are allegedly between the times of like three-ish and four-ish p.m.
Similar to last stories, search teams mobilized super fast. We have a police force now. This is a kid. So things on missing kids typically move significantly faster than missing adults. barely any time passes before everyone's out looking for him. This part's sad, I'm sorry. Eventually bloodhounds were brought in because they were not able to find him anywhere. And they did pick up his scent.
But only for a little while. It said that the dogs were on his scent. They were following it. And then just all of a sudden out of nowhere, it just stopped. They lost him and like couldn't find it anywhere. It was just like gone. Yeah. Which There could be like a creep creeping around.
Gina (40:47)
⁓ man.
Kathryn (40:51)
could have gotten into a car or something like But the reason that is often, I don't know what the word is, debunked, disputed, I guess, is he wasn't, I don't think the scent was super close to home. was like he would have needed to traverse to get to the point where they lost his scent.
And yes, that's possible, but it's like, there wasn't really any reason for him to leave wherever they were. it's not impossible. It's just such a big question mark
And just the fact that it was so sudden and he was so just gone and there were no clues. these patterns keep showing up in all of these stories. And then it was nearly no time at all before the fifth and final person in this group of disappearances would go missing. It was just a few weeks later.
And that was a 53 year old woman named Frida Langer or Langer. I think it's Langer. She was staying with family at a cabin near the mountain and she knew the area very, very well. She had been there numerous times to visit family over the course of the last several years. So she was very experienced in the area and she had gone on a walk with her cousin. And at some point she slipped into a stream and got
all wet. So she's like super uncomfortable. It's October. No one's trying to go on a leisurely walk in the fall soaking wet. So she decides to go back to the cabin to change clothes. It was a straight shot. They were like less than half a mile down an easy trail,
If anything happened to her, it was very similar to that first story with Mitty Rivers, where it was like, she was never far enough from anyone anywhere on the trail that if anything else happened to her, they wouldn't have heard she never made it back to the house.
Her cousin noticed that she, I think the plan was she was gonna go back to the house, change and then meet her cousin wherever they were going. She never showed up, cousin went back to the house, the rest of the family said she never made it back. search clues are not found. Nothing ever comes from anything until about six months later, body is found.
Gina (43:13)
Damn.
Kathryn (43:13)
So
this time we've got not just a clue, but something big. is never explicitly stated what definitely happened to her. Officials concluded she likely suffered a medical emergency, possibly a seizure or something like that, fallen into the water and drowned. These things happen very quickly. It's possible that that did happen
Gina (43:32)
⁓ god.
Kathryn (43:36)
What's strange is where she was found had been searched numerous times, like fine tooth combed over, over and over and over again, it was a little ways from where she went missing, but it was within the vicinity of their search region. And it had been combed over like she she was in a spot that
If she had been there when they were searching, she would have very easily been seen. And it was suspected based on where she was and how she was that her body had not moved. there's still that question mark of
did she get here and was she here the whole time? How could we have missed her? She wasn't moved, allegedly. She's been here the whole time, allegedly. how could we miss her? You know?
all of this being said, these disappearances, what was that? I think it was five in five years, very small town area. So this is a high percentage of people. This was not a thing that people were used to dealing with.
very large percentage of unanswered questions. And all of that combined really added to the, I'm going to say, uncanny nature of the area in general. And the fact that this is an area that people already felt strange about and already had a lot of rumors and legends and lore. And people kind of started using these disappearances as proof.
of something either sinister or extraterrestrial, whatever you want to call it. One of the biggest claims is that these people were either abducted by aliens or fell into like a different dimension or something.
I don't necessarily know if I want to ascribe to the alien theory right off the bat. I definitely think it's a hot spot. mean, I definitely think that there's something weird and inhuman going on in this area. The only one
really do kind of ascribe to the alien theory is the James Tedford one, the bus guy. I really don't. I'm just like, I do not know. Yeah. I don't know. And like, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there are details that are kind of hard to find and have gotten brushed aside over the years or something. But if there's not, I'm like, damn.
Gina (45:43)
Yeah, because how do you... How is that even possible?
Kathryn (46:01)
It's gotta be either aliens or another dimension or both. Like, that's literally where I land with that one. that one is a strange one.
Gina (46:05)
Nah.
I think I do lean more towards other dimension than aliens. Because I think if this is aliens...
Kathryn (46:11)
Yeah.
Gina (46:14)
pick a different place for a little bit. Guys, they're onto your case. Five and a five years might be too much, you know? I mean, don't kidnap anyone, ideally, but I don't know.
Kathryn (46:20)
Yeah!
Yeah. Well, and I also feel
like, like, don't aliens usually bring people back? Like, isn't the deal with alien abductions, people usually come back, right?
Gina (46:33)
Yeah
Maybe they hadn't figured that out in the 40s yet.
Kathryn (46:39)
That's true. And actually, we only have the accounts of people who have come back. Maybe there are other people that, like, have not come back and we just don't know. Maybe there are people just maybe they're just living their best lives over on the spaceship, feeling bad that we haven't gotten abducted yet. Like, I don't know. Like, who knows? But yeah, that's, you know, there's so much more to the Bennington Triangle. The missing
Gina (46:50)
Yeah, that's true.
Ha ha
Kathryn (47:05)
people is the thing that I think amplified the legends. And there sounds like there's something going on.
Gina (47:15)
Yeah. It rings very Appalachian.
Kathryn (47:19)
That's- yeah, I agree.
Yeah, I agree.
Gina (47:22)
Yeah, and
I don't know where I stand on. think, something going on. I won't pretend to know what it is. there's also, it could just be a series of very, very unfortunate tragedies that coincidentally all took place within five years. That would be a massive coincidence, but I wonder what the actual statistical likelihood of that happening would be, because it feels like it would be
Kathryn (47:27)
Yeah.
Exactly.
Gina (47:46)
very extremely small. So if you're a person who does math, iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com What are the numbers doing?
Kathryn (47:53)
I know, I was sitting here and
my brain was like, this one does not concern me. Yeah, I don't know, especially, know, 40s and 50s, that was a different time. like hitchhiking to a trailhead was not weird or dangerous. You know what I mean? Like exactly. Like that was very common.
Gina (47:57)
I know. Don't know.
18 year old girl hitchhiking, my God.
Kathryn (48:18)
That's a small town area, know, there was not a lot, this is the type of area slash time period where people did not lock their doors. and all of this is to say, you know, this is me both arguing for and against the something sinister happened to these people because it's like the likelihood it happening feels smaller, but it's also like.
people had their guard down and bad things were happening. This was before DNA and all of that. So it's very possible that it was just a human monster ⁓ versus something paranormal or extraterrestrial. And we just did not have the technology or resources to know that. therefore we created this alien.
Gina (48:51)
Yeah.
Kathryn (49:02)
about it. I'm always gonna want it to be something extra terrestrial because no one wants it to be thy neighbor, but I cannot confidently say it wasn't, you know.
Gina (49:16)
The scariest monster of all is mankind.
Kathryn (49:19)
'Tis, 'Tis...
Anyway, what do you have for me?
Gina (49:25)
⁓
my gosh, man. Well, thank you for doing that research. That was sad, but very fascinating. ⁓ I have a ghosty paranormal story for you today that I picked because it reminds me of an experience that you had.
Kathryn (49:30)
Yes, you're welcome. Yes.
Oh my gosh, yay! I selfishly am very excited to hear this thing that reminds you of me.
Gina (49:42)
Mm-hmm. One second.
So this is a Reddit story, and it was on a thread where the question was, what's the scariest thing you've ever seen that nobody believed when you told them?
Kathryn (50:02)
Oh my gosh, okay.
Gina (50:05)
So it's kind of short and sweet, short-ish and sweet, but like I said, it reminded me of you. So this comes from Reddit user mojoduff27. I live with my grandma. She was Italian, so she had one of those formal dining rooms with the chandelier buffet with the big mirror over it, big table with lace tablecloth, the whole deal. I felt like I was in this living room, or with this dining room, when they were describing, can't you see it?
Kathryn (50:30)
I'm literally like,
yeah, that's like my dream.
Gina (50:34)
But like,
Kathryn (50:36)
I love how I also have to land,
like I have to land on the, like, I have an Italian grandma, therefore I have this like very specifically decor dining room, which my Italian grandmother also had. Yeah.
Gina (50:45)
for this dining room.
could totally, totally see it.
Yeah, so they go on to say, one day I was in the living room, which sat parallel to the dining room. My grandma asked me to go upstairs and get her something because she was busy cooking. I started going up the stairs, I had that eerie feeling of being watched. Goosebumps and all. I looked to the top of the stairs to see if something was up there and there was nothing. Just then,
Something caught my eye down low. looked into the mirror in that dining room. From my vantage point on the steps, and I saw reflected in there an entire dinner party. The ladies were wearing floofy hoop dresses with updo hairstyles and the men had on dressy suits. They were clanking silverware and laughing and talking. Holy crap, it scared me so bad. I screamed and shot up the stairs.
My grandma came running and I was huffing and puffing trying to explain to her what happened. She walked me down to show me that nothing was there and indeed nothing was there. But for the rest of her life, about every five, 10 years or so, she would ask me to describe to her exactly what I saw that day.
Do you want to tell me why this reminded me of you?
Kathryn (52:12)
I was gonna
say, I'm like racking my brain. What part makes you blub blub blub? Yes, tell me.
Gina (52:19)
So I
remember when ⁓ we talked about your experience at the Roff House. This might have not even been on the podcast. This might have just been like you and me talking off the pod. And you said that at times it felt like there was a party going on in there. That's why it reminded me of you.
Kathryn (52:30)
Mm-hmm.
Yes. Yes.
OK, that's interesting. Yeah, because we were we were in the dining room and that was the vibe. That's the thing. It was just the whole time we were there. felt like there was a giant party going on in like the spirit world. Yeah. that's interesting. I love the idea of a ghostly dinner party. Yeah.
Gina (52:50)
Mm-hmm.
Isn't that fun? I hope
that's where we go after we die.
Kathryn (52:58)
God, I love a dinner party. They don't do those very much anymore. That's like a I've been wanting to do one.
Gina (53:00)
as a party with each other.
They should, I love them.
Kathryn (53:06)
but then I have to like clean and have people over.
Gina (53:07)
Yeah, I love a dinner party.
That is the worst part. Like I would get
excited. I do get excited about like menus and thinking about what music I'm gonna play and like what drinks I'm gonna serve. But when it comes to the cleaning, yes. But anything having to do with preparation of my abode, not interested.
Kathryn (53:17)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. The table setting, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I do not find the cleaning calming. I've never been one of the I am. I'm calm when things are clean, but I do not find joy in cleaning whatsoever.
Gina (53:32)
Me neither.
No. In fact, I go into a frenzy when I clean, like an angry frenzy, because I want it to be done as soon as possible.
Kathryn (53:46)
Yeah, I get. Although I did remember how I was like, I'm not going to finish listening to Interview with a Vampire audiobook. Rage cleaned my bathroom that day and did in fact finish it. But again, I was rage cleaning, so that doesn't count. Yeah, that was spooky. I wonder who they were. And I wonder where they were. I wonder if they like were they in the mirror? Were they at the table?
Gina (53:56)
Mm-hmm.
Nice.
Kathryn (54:14)
Were they in the house? Like, I'm curious about that.
Gina (54:16)
I know. Yeah.
Reddit user, what was it? MojoDuff27, if you ever happen to listen to this podcast, iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com tell us everything, more details, please. As a reminder, if you would like your story read out at the end of an episode, you can send it to iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com if we haven't said it enough times this episode. I wonder how fast we can say our email. I feel like we're getting really good at.
Kathryn (54:29)
You
You
⁓
Gina (54:44)
I'm host, hostess, energy.com.
Kathryn (54:45)
I don't know. It's
really specific.
Gina (54:48)
Yeah.
Kathryn (54:50)
You know, I'll try next time. I'll try next time. I was
not prepared. I'm sorry. That was a horrible horrible horrible chance. Okay
Gina (54:58)
So yeah, just send your story to a pod and come.
⁓ And also we have a Patreon link is in the show notes. We would love to see you there But until next time little spoons keep it cool
Kathryn (55:17)
and keep it creepy.
