72: Bonnie Parker
Gina (01:08)
Hello and welcome to I Scream You Scream, your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories, mysteries and paranormal perplexities. I'm Gina.
Kathryn (01:18)
And I'm Kathryn
Gina (01:19)
And this month we are talking about femme fatales while we have some chocolate and berry ice cream.
Quick reminder, we do have tons of amazing behind the scenes content on Patreon. I don't know why I said it that way.
Kathryn (01:34)
love
that you said it that way because it is amazing.
Gina (01:37)
It's true, it's very true. think it's because I've been rewatching Schitt's Creek, so I have the Moira Rose voice in my head. Quick reminder, we do have a lot of amazing behind the scenes. Pretty good.
Kathryn (01:41)
⁓ yes. R.I.P. As you should.
Wait,
that's so good! Do you practice?
Gina (01:54)
night before I go to sleep.
Kathryn (01:56)
You said that sarcastically, but I feel like you do.
Gina (01:59)
I do love the Moira Rose voice. But yes, we have a Patreon. Link is in the show notes. You'll probably super love it. But until then, grab a spoon and let's dig in.
Kathryn (02:01)
That was so good. Anyway, yes.
Yay. And like Cinnamon just crawled up on me. She knows now when I'm about to start eating this and she's like.
Gina (02:12)
Yeah.
Kathryn (02:19)
Capturing my hands. Okay. I like can't do this.
Gina (02:21)
No, mother.
I know we have to rate our ice creams, but real quick, I have something I forgot to tell you. I've received a formal request about an ice cream flavor we should eat. The request is from Tom, and the request is that we let Phil and Tom pick the flavor one month.
Kathryn (02:28)
Yes. Yeah, tell me.
really?
Okay.
No. Immediate no. Absolutely not. Do you think I'm new here? Absolutely not. So that's my genuine answer straight from my soul. I am willing to reconsider if we set ground rules. Namely, must be socially accepted as a food item.
Gina (02:45)
That's what I said. I said immediately no.
That's what mine was too.
Mm-hmm.
That's exactly what I said. Like, it cannot be disgusting.
Kathryn (03:13)
Yeah,
no. Yeah, that's like bare minimum and then moving from there has to be socially accepted as a tasty food combination.
Gina (03:24)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I completely agree.
Kathryn (03:26)
And like, it's not even Tom I'm worried about. It's not Tom at all. Tom can pick the ice cream. Yeah, exactly, he'd pick his favorite. Yeah.
Gina (03:29)
Mm-mm, mm-mm. Tom would just pick what he wants to eat. He'd be, yeah. I feel like
Phil would pick cigarette butts and curdled milk.
And I say that with love.
Kathryn (03:45)
It's funny because it's true. Yeah, it's funny because it's true. Yeah, absolutely not. Tom can pick the ice cream, but Tom and Phil cannot pick the ice cream. All right, well, we'll convene off camera and the four of us can work together on a socially acceptable ice cream flavor.
Gina (03:54)
This is not a team activity.
Kathryn (04:10)
Yeah, as far as this one is concerned, what are, do you, do you have a rating? Okay. my gosh, okay.
Gina (04:15)
I do, I'm gonna give this a four out of five. I really, really
enjoyed this. I had the same ⁓ blueberry ice cream with a chocolate ganache thingy ribbon in it the entire month, and I've really enjoyed it every single time. it's like just the right amount of blueberry, just the right level of darkness in the chocolate. I really, it's surprising to me how much I like it for an ice cream that doesn't have bits in it, because you know how I feel about bits.
Kathryn (04:40)
Yeah.
I love that for you. I also love this for us because mine's also going to be a four this month, which I don't think I've had a four in a while. could be wrong. I don't remember anything else we've ever done on this podcast. unlike you, mine was different every single time
Gina (04:43)
What about you?
Ha
Kathryn (04:58)
I had the raspberry sherbert from my bucket of rainbow sherbert, which by the way, I'm starting to get real hard to just get the raspberry at the point that I'm at. I almost got a little orange today, but I was focused. ⁓ The first time I think I just had, yeah, I just had my emergency chocolate. Don't remember the flavor that I mixed with some almond or some type of milk.
Gina (05:08)
Hahaha!
Kathryn (05:27)
almond cashew, whatever I had. So I turned it into like a little drizzle. That was delectable. Second time, forgot the chocolate. Still good. Third time, I had that cherry chocolate. Very delectable. And this time, I found my emergency lemon chocolate bar. And I liked the cherries better, I will say, but this is...
Gina (05:39)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (05:52)
as refreshing as we were expecting it to be. But it's almost like the raspberry and lemon is a little too... I don't want say too much, but I don't know. It doesn't work as well as the cherries and raspberry, which I was really surprised by because as a flavor combination, I would expect the raspberries and lemon to be nicer. I think combined with the dark chocolate, I liked the cherries better.
Gina (06:17)
Hmm
Kathryn (06:19)
They were a little
more subtle. It was a little chocolatier than that. Like the lemon is coming through a lot more. It's like they're battling each other versus like complimentary, but still a four, like still enjoying myself. But this one is shaved. This one I shaved to the chocolate. Yeah. Yeah. I had to go out with a bang. Yeah. I was real proud of myself for finding this candy bar that was lost in my sea of disorganized mess.
Gina (06:22)
That's what I have in my... yeah.
⁓ yum. That's fancy damn.
Hell yeah.
I'm so glad you found that candy bar because I've been thinking about it all the time. It sounds so good.
Kathryn (06:49)
I know
you did such a good job of like remembering to remind me after I reminded myself last time, but still forgot. You I know. Yeah, but I finally I'm happy for our last one. I'm happy I found it because next week's going to be the bonus. So I think we're going to be enjoying our palate cleansing cocktails.
Gina (07:01)
I think I reminded you once intentionally, it's just because I think about this chocolate bar so much.
⁓ yeah, I forgot that we do that.
Kathryn (07:21)
Yeah,
I forgot we did that too until just this moment. That was partially a statement, partially a question. So yes, we will be doing that.
Gina (07:25)
hell yeah, okay.
Kathryn (07:31)
What else? I feel like I had something. I don't know. Yeah, tell me.
Gina (07:33)
I have a question for you.
How is your journey going to not be scared of the dark anymore?
Kathryn (07:42)
yeah, it's not going well, but I'm on it. like I am actively on this journey and I don't remember which episode I mentioned this in. it Persephone? Was it just the last one? Cause I think you meant, yeah. yeah, cause you mentioned her daughter and yes, and I have not looked into her at all yet. My apologies. This will all happen. I got a lot going.
Gina (07:57)
It was one of the last few.
Mm, Melinoë.
Kathryn (08:11)
We're very busy over here. But yeah, I'm still very afraid of the dark, but I'm learning things about myself in the reading of this book
it either just came out or it will be coming out like any day now. It's called Night Faring and the like tagline or whatever subtitle is in search of the disappearing darkness. So it's all about.
like the value of not having light pollution and like the destruction that light pollution has on our just like ability to see the night, but it has a lot. How do I describe this succinctly?
This book has just been really nice because it's making me kind of, this is gonna sound cheesy, but it's kind of like making me understand the value of darkness in a way I've never really thought about. And there's a lot of metaphor in that. the author has a lot of metaphor in that. It's a very spiritual book, but also just scientific as well. I don't know, I highly recommend. I'm very, very slowly reading this because it is a...
pretty dense book. Like there is a lot of science and history and she goes through like the history of the night sky and when people discovered what and she's like traveling all over the world learning about different cultures relationship with the night sky and darkness and all that. I'm just loving this. This like might be a top five book for me this year. I'm like just absolutely loving this book. Yeah. So
Gina (09:38)
wow.
Kathryn (09:41)
I'm reading this on my journey to not be afraid of the dark. And as I'm reading and I'm like, yeah, I love the darkness. I love everything you're saying. Like you go moths migrate, like all this stuff. But then I'm like also still sleeping with my lamp on every night. So we're getting there eventually. I'm getting there. Yeah. Yeah.
Gina (09:57)
You're getting there. That's a big step to have, you
know, like a cognitive appreciation for it, even if it hasn't translated into your like bodily response to the dark yet. That's big.
Kathryn (10:05)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
yeah, because like, conceptually, I get it. I get the value of the dark. But like for me personally, don't wanna be alone there, you know? But we'll get there. We'll get there.
Gina (10:22)
Okay, so it's called night fairing, you said? Okay, sweet, I need to add it to my story graph. Okay, cool, cool. I'm glad that it's going well. Thank you for the update.
Kathryn (10:22)
I know. Night fairing, yeah. I'll share info on it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I'll share a link. Yeah.
It's going.
Gina (10:37)
It sure is going.
I have questions about your topic today, but I don't really wanna ask them because I feel like you're gonna answer them. And my main thing is like, I think I know who this person is, but I'm not 100 % sure. And that's kind of it.
Kathryn (10:55)
Okay,
Yeah, we'll just jump in. Hopefully I answer all your questions. If I don't, just ask them. Okay. So our story starts in a small farming town in a dry stretch of central Texas called
Gina (11:03)
You
Kathryn (11:12)
Rowena. It's got quiet roads, very small handful of houses, just the type of place where everyone knew each other and nothing much ever really seemed to happen. That is where Bonnie Parker, one half of the infamous duo Bonnie and Clyde was born. Does that answer one of your questions? Yes. Yes.
Gina (11:31)
Uh-huh. Okay, yes, yes. That does answer one of my questions.
Kathryn (11:38)
You don't often hear about her by herself and don't worry, we will talk about Clyde Pliny too, but this episode is about Bonnie Parker. It's easy to imagine her as something like larger than life right from the beginning. She was a reckless figure. People thought of her as a criminal at heart, but the truth as we have come to find on this podcast is much more complicated than that.
Before the headlines, the crimes, and all the infamous manhunts that would grip the entire country in regards to Bonnie and Clyde, she was a bright kid. She excelled in school and was very creative. And for a long time, her life looked like it might go in a very normal direction. But of course, that would not happen.
which is why today we're going to talk about the real Bonnie Parker in so far as what I could find. We're talking about her early life, the choices that shaped her, and the story of how a very talented young woman from Texas became one of the most famous outlaws in American history, which I love. I love it so much. Yes, exactly. That's the vibe. So exciting news, I think. The podcast shares a birthday with Bonnie. October 1st.
Gina (12:49)
Yee-haw! ⁓
Really? my god. Hey!
Kathryn (12:59)
Yes,
Libra Bestie. So she was born, oh, and Colette, my niece. Yeah, we all share a birthday. She was born October 1st, 1910 as Bonnie Elizabeth Parker to her parents, Charles and Emma Parker. And her father worked as a bricklayer and her mother was a homemaker. So very modest, normal, early 20th century life.
Gina (13:07)
You
Kathryn (13:28)
was the third of four children, but a lot of sources say that she's the second of three because one of her older sisters, what? One of her older siblings, sorry. One of her older siblings died as a baby. So she was raised as a middle child, but she was born one of four. ⁓ Her older sibling likely died of SIDS. It was very common, particularly like around that time.
So like I said, she grew up as the middle child, had an older brother and a younger sister. So when Bonnie was just four years old, her father died in a construction accident while he was at work. And it was really devastating to the family, not just emotionally. Obviously it's hard to lose any family member, but you know, the father, he's...
The breadwinner, he's the head of the household. So it was devastating to them financially as well. With their only source of income gone, Emma basically just packed up the kids and moved them about 250 miles north to Dallas, Texas. I forgot to look up kilometers. How much do you think that is?
Gina (14:43)
⁓ my god, I always forget.
Kathryn (14:45)
Texas is big as hell, so
like, I don't know, like that's pretty far. And that's not even like across the whole state.
Gina (14:53)
402 kilometers.
Kathryn (14:56)
Yeah, so very far to cover like a very small percentage of this giant-ass state. yeah, they moved to a place north of Dallas, specifically an area known as Cement City, where Emma would get a job as a seamstress to support the family.
Gina (15:02)
You
Kathryn (15:14)
The background of this area is important to this story because it kind of was the catalyst to how she would end up being one of the most famous outlaws in American history.
is known for being pretty poor and like overcrowded and just kind of rough around the edges. It was kind of the gritty part of town, if you will. Needless to say, it wasn't the type of place where people like expected anyone to come out and be super famous. ⁓ And arguably,
I feel like Bonnie is exactly the type of famous that people would expect to come out of this neighborhood. Not knowing any of this is like, I don't know anything about this neighborhood. This is just kind of what was said about the area. was just that type of area where people didn't really expect to do big things if they come from Cement City.
But by all accounts, Bonnie stood out almost immediately. First and foremost, she was incredibly small, which I think is kind of funny to think about because she's so infamous. She was a bite-sized child and would be tiny her whole life. She was barely five feet when she was an adult and like 80 or 90 pounds. Like she was tiny. Yeah, she was very small. So.
Gina (16:20)
didn't know that.
God.
Kathryn (16:34)
As a child, she physically appeared very mousy, but that was a little misleading because she did have a very strong personality. She wasn't like a bouncing off the walls, crazy type of kid, but she stood out because she was very intelligent and incredibly bright and confident. So she was like a star pupil as a child. She was very and she loved to read. She loved to write and she especially loved poetry. She found it calming.
and was just really inspired by the beauty of a good poem. And like I said, she did very well in school. In fact, she did so well that she graduated early, something that was incredibly rare at the time. You saw kids leaving school early, but you rarely saw them doing so well in school that they would graduate early, particularly for girls. was very rare for a girl to finish school.
Gina (17:27)
Yeah
Kathryn (17:31)
at that time, she'd get, especially in like, you know, working class areas in the early 1900s, many young women didn't finish school at all. So was incredibly impressive that she graduated early and she essentially excelled at everything she set her mind to.
Gina (17:36)
Yeah.
Kathryn (17:50)
classmates and teachers would later remember her as being like lively and charismatic, not distrapped, not disruptive. Like I said, she was just very positive. She is someone that I imagine her report card said was a joy to have in class, which I myself also was just saying. Yes, honestly.
Gina (18:11)
fellow joy to have in class.
Kathryn (18:16)
For real though, that everyone got that on a report card because I just always got it. I thought it was like a box that teachers just checked. So when I found out not everyone got that, I was pretty proud of myself. I gotta be honest with you, yes. So.
Gina (18:28)
very special.
Kathryn (18:33)
Anyway, yeah, so all of these wonderful, lovely, positive things, you might think, wow, she's gonna use her early graduation to get a jumpstart on life and become a writer, some type of artist or something. Of course not. In 1926, right before Bonnie turned 16, I think it was after she graduated, she had already graduated at this point, she married her high school sweetheart, Roy Thornton. And for once, they were actually the same age, so that's positive. He was her...
Gina (19:01)
Okay.
Kathryn (19:03)
classmate, he was a local boy that she went, was, you know, they were a couple in high school. ⁓ And, you know, young marriages, of course, were not unusual at this time. 16 was not a young age to get married in 1920, whatever the hell, especially in Texas and, you know, particularly in working class areas, that was very common. But their relationship quickly proved to be extremely unstable.
Roy, like I said, he was a local boy they met in high school and he was known as basically being like hot as fuck. He was like incredibly handsome. He was the one that, was like the bad boy that all the girls wanted. Yes, he was very charming, very handsome. He knew how to work a room. More importantly, he knew how to get his way. This of course, he used for evil. Yeah, yes.
Gina (19:45)
Nice.
Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (20:00)
So he started to get pretty heavily involved in petty crime. He would manipulate people, scam people, and he was successful because he was so charming that allowed him to be very sneaky and manipulative. So things escalated and he ended up getting arrested for.
relatively small things, but like several times throughout their marriage, which by the way, didn't last very long. It only lasted a little over a which time Bonnie and Roy would separate multiple times. The third and final time they separated was in 1927. It was reportedly due to infidelity. So Roy was a piece of shit, cheated on Bonnie. She's like,
I'm done. I'm not sure if the reason they kept separating prior to this was due to infidelity or crimes or whatever, but it was just a tumultuous relationship, regardless for what exactly. Yeah, there's a reason for it regardless of which one it is. this final time was because he was cheating on her. I believe that they never saw each other again.
Gina (20:59)
Any of the above works, yeah.
you
Kathryn (21:15)
I'm not totally positive on the timeline of the last time they actually saw each other, but I do know that he was arrested for something pretty serious shortly after they finally separated for good and he was sentenced to prison. So like after that, he just wasn't really around at all. And neither was she. For reasons we'll talk about in a bit. ⁓ But he did make an attempt to get back together with her a few years later, probably via
Telegram or some shit, I don't know. ⁓ Exactly, I'm like, don't know how, I don't know how. I don't know if it was from prison or, I don't understand the timeline of that, but regardless, she ignored him and they just never saw each other again. What's interesting to me though, is they never, two things, they never divorced. They just remained separated for the duration of their lives.
Gina (21:48)
Carrier pigeon.
Kathryn (22:14)
But also, she never stopped wearing her wedding ring. She was like wearing it the day that she died, which I find interesting.
Gina (22:25)
Wonder.
interesting. I wonder if it's like a conservative values thing.
Kathryn (22:31)
I thought that too, but like considering every other value that she seems to not give a fuck about, I do wonder like, because there's, I understand the not divorcing. That I understand because of what you said, you know, there are, were numerous reasons not to get divorced in the 1920s. So that's not confusing. Like it's expensive to get divorced. There wasn't a lot of money rolling around in the 20s. It was shameful.
Gina (22:39)
Fair, yeah. Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (23:01)
to women and for women. to mention if she's the one that wanted the divorce. It's harder for women to get a divorce, like particularly back then. So like that I get. do wonder if it was like a...
Gina (23:12)
Yeah.
Kathryn (23:15)
maybe she was no longer wearing it for him type situation. I just, don't know. I find that interesting. And that is one thing about this story that I'm like, I'm so fascinated by because there's the romantic side of me is like, ⁓ she, there was a part of her that always loved him. But then there's the other side of me. That's like exactly what you said. It's literally a logistics thing. And you know, she was married, therefore she wore her ring.
I don't know, there could be a million reasons why.
Gina (23:46)
Yeah, and it could be all of those things at the same time. And it could have also just been like, she liked the ring. Like she just thought it was pretty and it didn't fit any of her other fingers. I hope that's what it was.
Kathryn (23:49)
True.
True. ⁓ my God, wait, that's so funny because like, honestly,
that's my new favorite theory. I kind of hope that's what it was. She was just like, it was probably like, I mean, it may have been the nicest thing she owned. You know what I mean? Like, but then at that point I'm like, I don't know, would she have sold it? But no, like to your point, if she just liked it and like that could be like a source of pride too.
Gina (24:03)
Hahaha.
Yeah, true.
Mmm
I don't know.
Kathryn (24:21)
Like she has
this really beautiful thing. You know what, now that we're talking about it, the Libra in me is like, yeah, that's totally why she did it. Like, yeah, she's got some jewels. Yeah, exactly. Don't worry, I bring it. There's a lot of Libra energy in this story, which makes me a little uncomfortable. I know. You'll learn why. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll learn why. Don't worry. So anyway, after separating from Roy,
Gina (24:30)
We've got some insight. We have an insider scoop here.
That's really surprising, but I'm here for it, I'm down. Okay.
Kathryn (24:50)
Bonnie decided to kind of settle into a quieter life and she got a job as a waitress in Dallas. And the job did not pay hardly anything, but it was steady work. And that was particularly important around that time because there were like the whisperings of economic instability were kind of starting to float around. So she's like, all right, my husband is no longer in the picture.
I gotta like figure out what's gonna happen next. So she starts getting back on track and is living a more stable life. She has steady income, like things were looking up. So of course that's when the Great Depression hit and jobs disappeared basically overnight
Not only were opportunities disappearing for people across America, but it was particularly difficult for women to find and hold jobs. So, you know, she started to get a little worried because the super steady, reliable restaurant job was suddenly not so steady or reliable as it once was. It was like once people started losing their jobs, no one was going out to eat anymore. And the first people to go from places like restaurants were going to be women, you know.
And it was during this period that Bonnie met the man who would change everything. And that man's name was Clyde Barrow. So Bonnie met Clyde in January of 1930 when she went to visit a friend and Clyde was also at that friend's house. think it was like a party or something. There was like a group of people at this friend's house.
According to people who were there that day, their connection was instant. Like they immediately fell into like an undisrupted conversation. We're just chatting for hours. It was like they were lost in each other. The chemistry was palpable. You know, it was one of those like insert endless love at first sight cliches here. Are you feeling the Libra vibes? Do you get it? Are you feeling it now? Yeah. So.
Gina (26:59)
Hehehehehe
Kathryn (27:03)
They're like instant spark, you know? And they like get together, stay connected and end up becoming an item. But what Bonnie didn't know at the time is that Clyde already had a pretty significant criminal record and he had no intention of slowing down anytime soon. Not long after meeting Bonnie, once they were already an item, he was arrested for burglary and sent to prison.
For most people, that would have been the end of the story, but not for our girl Bonnie. Not only had Bonnie been there, done that, she knew how to be with a criminal,
but it was reported that Bonnie actually helped Clyde escape from prison by smuggling a gun to him while he was locked up.
Gina (27:55)
That's love. That's love.
Kathryn (28:01)
So he escaped and the escape didn't last long. He was very quickly re-apprehended, but it revealed something important about Bonnie and that was her loyalty. Like once she decided she cared about someone and like fell into their orbit, she stayed loyal, hundo-pee. I see your smile.
Gina (28:22)
Okay, I'm seeing it. I'm seeing the
Libra energy.
Kathryn (28:26)
It's like looking into a mirror. So, we just can't help ourselves. I'm like, when I was researching this, I was like, ⁓
love story for the century. Which it was, I mean we'll get there. But yeah, mean, yeah, she was loyal. She was sucked in. So all of this is the same. She waited for him and Clyde eventually received parole in 1932. And when he was released, the path they took together would quickly spiral into a level of chaos and violence that would go down in infamy.
Is that right? Is that the right phrase? Go down in infamy? Live in infamy? Go down in history? I don't know. Anyway. So there were a few really big misconceptions right off the bat about, I'm going to say kind of like woven into the lore that is Bonnie and Clyde. The first is that they worked alone, just the two of them. That's all you ever hear. Bonnie and Clyde, you know, that's the group. But that wasn't the case at all.
Gina (29:12)
Sure, why not?
Kathryn (29:37)
After Clyde got out of prison, he assembled a gang of outlaws who would become known to law enforcement as the Barrow Gang. I know, isn't this great? Like, I hate how much I love this. I know. I just love this story. It's awful, but it's great, you know? Like, I totally, we'll get there, but like, I totally get the obsession with Bonnie and Clyde. again, it wasn't just them. So the main group included, obviously, Bonnie and Clyde.
Gina (29:47)
Sick. That's so awesome. Me too.
I know.
Kathryn (30:03)
and then Clyde's brother Marvin, who was my brother's hamster's name growing up. And I wish, no, sadly no.
Gina (30:09)
Was he named after THE Marvin?
Kathryn (30:19)
Dude, that's not even in my notes. I was just like, ⁓ Marvin. Wow, what a great little guy. He was great. I loved Marvin. Anyway, RIP. So yeah, it was Clyde's brother Marvin.
Gina (30:30)
Please keep going.
Kathryn (30:33)
We had a funeral for him in the compost pile out back. So.
I'm so sorry, I really keep trying to move on from Marvin and I just keep really failing. Okay, so.
So it was God's brother Marvin and Marvin's wife Blanche. Then, so those were like the core four. And then along the way, they collected various other outlaws, including men named W.D. Jones, which I love. Right? Okay, stop. Right? I know. I know. W.D. Jones. I think it was William something Jones. But like, why do you guys always do that? I feel like that's an early 20th century, like,
18, 1900s, it was like initial, initial, last name. Like, what was that?
Gina (31:25)
I was just thinking about WD-40.
Kathryn (31:28)
my god, I was laughing at the name. Wait, that's funny.
The other names of the rest of the Barrow Gang is less funny. So we also, actually no, this is kind of funny too, Methvin?
Sorry. He comes back. His name was Henry Methvin. ⁓ Methvin, M-E-T-H-V-I-N. I think it's probably like Methvin, but I prefer Methvin. Not that I don't even know if anyone heard a difference in those two pronunciations. Anyway, also Raymond Hamilton, Joe Palmer, and Ralph Foltz. I'm sorry. They were all kind of funny. I'm just going to move on.
Gina (31:45)
Meth-fin. Meth-fin, okay.
Kathryn (32:08)
Anyway, this was the game.
Gina (32:08)
I feel like I'm watching a movie right now. They're all like getting out of the car in slow motion with their name like across the, yeah, exactly.
Kathryn (32:13)
Like a clown car, but it's a barrow gang car. I know. Yep, exactly So
So yeah, there was this big group. It was very much not just Bonnie and Clyde. It was more like Clyde and company he was he was the leader of this gang and She was kind of just along for the ride but right-hand woman, you know, it was like king and queen of the barrow gang kind of so another
I don't want to big misconception because I think this one can be argued. It is worth a discussion. But I'm going to say if we're looking at it just objectively, a misconception is the fact that this group had kind of a Robin Hood situation going on because very much painted themselves. We'll talk about this more at the end, but they very much painted themselves as like anti-capitalist. We are like
stealing from the big corporations that are ruining America type situation. And that was how some articles perceived them and reported on them. But ⁓ that was mostly because a lot of their most famous robberies were at banks. They were bank robbers. So was like, we're stealing from these banks who fucked us over in this economic crash. Right. So that was
Gina (33:36)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (33:38)
That was a very big news story at the time. They were anti-institution, anti-capitalist, like on behalf of the little guys. But that wasn't all they were doing. I think that that was like their intention, but they also were knocking off like gas stations and mom and pop grocery stores and the people who were also affected by this, you know, really tumultuous time.
Gina (33:59)
Hmm
Kathryn (34:07)
in order to get from bank to bank. You know what I mean? it was like, could argue that they were, but I think the intention was probably there, but in execution, that really wasn't the case long-term. Does that make sense?
Gina (34:25)
Yeah,
it's almost like they kind of slapped the label on to make themselves feel better or make other people feel better about it or something like that. Like that's more of a brand move than a
Kathryn (34:30)
Yeah...
Exactly, that's like one of, exactly, it's one of those things where it's like, you know, did they say this to save face or did they like really believe this is what they were doing and just were ignoring all of the other stuff? Like, I really don't know, I can't speak in their intentions,
Gina (34:48)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (34:52)
But there was a lot of discussion on just them and who they were and what they were doing and how violent they were and what their purpose was and all of that. There was a lot of discussion about them in general. I'll leave it at that for now. We'll come back to this. But part of the reason they, you know,
I'm gonna say quote unquote had to steal from so many mom and pop shops is there, I don't know how to like describe this, like their like service area was very large. Like they covered the whole country. I don't know, how do you say that? they're like, like they traveled across the entire middle America to rob various banks. Like they were traveling over large stretches of land.
Gina (35:28)
You
Yeah.
Kathryn (35:41)
So they primarily operated in Texas, but they also worked their way up through Oklahoma and Kansas and Missouri. And they even made it up into Illinois and just pieces of surrounding states. But they were mostly in Texas, because that's where they were from. But Texas is huge. So the fact that they even made it out of Texas, let alone so far throughout the Midwest, is conceptually just exhausting, in my opinion. I wouldn't make it a block.
Gina (36:09)
Yeah.
No, no. That's like how everyone talks about how it'd be like so much fun to go on a road trip with all of your friends and then you do it and you all hate each other by the end of it. And they were doing that for money. That just seems like, for crimes. It seems like a lot of-
Kathryn (36:17)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly.
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah. And they they did work in such a big area and they had such fast getaway times because there were so many of them. They had different people doing different things and coordinating different places. Like this was a big operation that they like very quickly shot to the top of the most wanted list. Like they were covering so much ground so quickly. It was like
If you were anywhere in the United States, you were not safe from them because who knows where they would end up next. They had several hideouts across Texas and just all over the Midwest. And April of 1933, police raided one of their hideouts in Joplin, Missouri, but they had all managed to escape.
So they left behind pretty much everything, including but not limited to a camera. And authorities developed the film on the camera just to see if it would give them any clues as to where they had been or where they were going next.
And that's how we got arguably the most infamous images of the Barrow Gang and kind of why the country developed such an insatiable obsession with Bonnie and Clyde specifically. So on the film, the photos that were developed, there were several pictures of Bonnie posing with like cigars in her mouth, guns in her hands.
And she's posing in very un-ladylike ways. Not sexually, but just very, she looks like a gangster. She's like, packin' with, she's posing in front of the car, and it's just very, they're very kind of salacious photos for a woman in 1933. And we'll share them, of course.
Gina (38:08)
Nice.
Kathryn (38:24)
But she looked scary, like she looked like a scary lady. You didn't want to run into this version of Bonnie. And there were a few photos. I don't know exactly how many. I'll try to see if I can find them all. And we'll post them to social, whichever ones we can find. But in one photo, she's like, sorry, I don't mean to laugh. It's just like the infamous image that you have of like Bonnie and Clyde in your head. She's pointing a shotgun at Clyde, but they're like,
ha ha ha, like LOL, you know what I mean? It's just like, it's just weird, I don't know. But they're like smiling and laughing for the camera. And the images were so bizarre to so many people because of that, they're like dark photos, you know? But they're having such a good time and they're both just kind of laughing about it. It was almost theatrical. It was like they were
Gina (38:57)
my god.
Kathryn (39:20)
like LOL JK, you know what I And you mentioned this earlier in the episode just a few minutes ago is what's notable about these images, especially retrospectively, is they look like they're just having fun. It doesn't look like proof of hardened violent criminals. It has the vibes of like friends on
Gina (39:24)
Yeah.
Kathryn (39:49)
a road trip messing around like before they head back to school in the fall, but just like with guns. Like that's why they're so bizarre. Yeah. So these images are strange to a lot of people because that's like not a normal vibe, especially in 1933, you know? So newspapers across the country are publishing these photos and suddenly
Gina (39:56)
That's wild.
Kathryn (40:14)
Bonnie Parker is like a national sensation, because like, who is this woman with like stogie in her mouth and gun in her hand? You know, and who's this guy that she's pointing the gun at? You know, like it was very like Pearl clutchy, you know? So the images are arguably what turned Bonnie and Clyde specifically into celebrities. Keep in mind, there's another couple on the road with them.
But you never hear about Marvin and Blanche. No, well, there was no photos of them. They weren't talked about. But Bonnie and Clyde were the ones that you were seeing, and they were the ones you were seeing with cigars and guns and stolen cars. they became what they are today. You know what I mean? They became...
Gina (40:46)
same ring does it?
Kathryn (41:08)
It wasn't just Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow. That's when they became Bonnie and Clyde, this is when that
ride or die kind of vibe came into play. But to take it one step further, too many Americans struggling through the depressions, they weren't just this, violent criminal couple. They were
almost a source of like catharsis for a lot of people, kind of became a symbol of rebellion. The reason there's this kind of misconception that they were this like ragtag group of Robin Hoods is because like that was almost what people needed to believe in that period in our history. know, like they, no matter what the newspapers reported and no matter what was being discussed, people wanted to believe.
that they were just knocking off the big banks and they were these come try and catch me law enforcement type of people because people were upset at the big guys, So it was almost like they were the ones, even though they were bad and breaking the rules and doing bad things and carrying around guns and stealing from people, they also like,
had the courage to live outside of the rules of the system that had failed everyone. we have those news stories where you see people doing things that like, you know you shouldn't do and, but it's like, but some people kind of had it coming. You know what I mean? That's like how people were reading these news articles at the time.
Gina (42:36)
Yeah.
I totally get that. That's reminding me of Luigi can't pronounce his last name because I've never said it out loud.
Kathryn (42:42)
Yeah.
100%. That is 100 % exactly what it was. People were reading it like, yes, they shouldn't be doing all these things, but the things that they're doing, the people they're doing it to, they also shouldn't have done those things. It was very much a, it created a discussion, I will say.
Gina (43:01)
Yeah.
Kathryn (43:06)
they're also.
the photographs are also responsible for perpetuating a third, I'm gonna say, misconception about the group's story, and that is the myth that Bonnie Parker was one of the more violent members of the group. The myth that she was like an eager participant in these crimes, because what the truth is is still kind of discussed and debated.
between law enforcement and historians and stuff like that. A lot of people do say that that portrayal of her was real. She was part of the gang. She chose to be part of the gang and she participated in their crimes.
As the decades were go on, we would develop a better understanding of the stuff we talk about time and time again on this podcast. We have a better understanding of just psychology in general, but particularly the psychology of relationships and power dynamics as they relate to gender roles. And also just who she was before she got swept up with her first husband and then moving on to Clyde. She very much has a type.
combined with first-hand accounts from people in her life before she got swept up in all of that, which we'll get to those a little bit later, we now kind of have an understanding that it is likely that she wasn't as violent and malicious as these photos seem to portray because...
The idea is pictures might be worth a thousand words, but none of that matters if the words are like incorrect. You know what I mean? only proof that we have of that is these photos.
All of that is to say, around the time that the photos were released, the gang got into a pretty devastating car accident. And basically, to summarize, I don't know exactly what happened, but one day they were driving through Texas and they...
either crashed into something or swerved or something like that and the car rolled and overturned which caused the battery to split and it got acid all over Bonnie's leg. Yep. So she was left severely burned and it's very unlikely that they got her any medical attention because they were on the run. Like they were...
Gina (45:19)
my God.
Kathryn (45:32)
If they went to any hospital anywhere in America, people were looking for them. So it's very likely that she just simply wasn't treated. So she was left with permanent damage and she struggled to walk for pretty much the rest of her life, which, mini spoiler, we'll get there in a second, the rest of her life wouldn't actually be very long because it was around this time that the manhunt for the Barrow Gang really started to intensify.
Everyone's paying attention to, you know, where they were going, what they were doing, what law enforcement was doing, why haven't we caught them yet? Why are they still free? Are we safe? Like the pressure is mounting. So.
Authorities bring in a former Texas Ranger named Frank Hamer, I think it is, to track them down. And this guy was known for his persistence. He was absolutely relentless. He is like one of those guys. You've seen them on any number of documentary, like true crime documentaries you've seen. He like will not rest until they are caught.
So he's very closely studying their movements, habits, patterns, like anything to try to triangulate where they might be going. And eventually he finds his opportunity.
Basically, he learns that the gang had occasionally been visiting the family member of one of the gang members, this Methvin guy. So they've been like back and forth between, I think it was, yeah, Texas and Louisiana to visit this family.
And once the authorities got wind of this, they were able to just kind of wait it out until they came back and basically plan like an ambush or whatever.
And on May 23rd, 1934, Bonnie and Clyde were driving a stolen car along a rural road in Louisiana, not far from the Methven's house. Waiting for them was a posse of six law enforcement officers from Texas armed with all the guns you could imagine. And when the car appeared,
up the road, they opened fire immediately. There was no trying to trap them. I know. There was no trying to trap them, arrest them, nothing. were like, essentially they were just too slippery. they were like, we're not fucking around with this anymore. is said, I guess I should do a trigger warning. I'm so sorry. Trigger warning for guns and stuff in this episode. This is an American story. I'm so sorry. So.
It is said that an estimated minimum 130 rounds were fired at the vehicle. It was like a rainstorm. It was a genuine full on like wild west shootout that you would see in the movies type situation. And a lot of ⁓ outlaw car chase shootout scenes are like when you see this is like based on this. So of course both Bonnie and Clyde were
Gina (48:17)
Jeez.
Kathryn (48:38)
killed instantly. And Bonnie was just 23 years old at the time and Clyde was 25. So this all happened like real this entire story basically from the time she started seeing or by the time she married Roy to this. That was less than 10 years. I mean, you know, it was very quick. Yes. So news of their deaths spread across the country.
Gina (48:59)
That's wild. God.
Kathryn (49:07)
within like moments, hours max. It was like straight up extra, extra read all about it type situation. This was big news and the country went nuts. It was like these horrible yet fascinating people were finally gone and everyone could sleep soundly at night. It was just like, America was buzzing.
What I find incredibly interesting is the fact that despite the violence associated with their crimes and just the reputation that Bonnie specifically had, thousands of people attended her funeral in Dallas. And it was a combination of a few things, most likely. One, very simply, just the grip that this group had over the country during this time.
she may have been an outlaw, but she was also a celebrity. You know, it was like when people go to like a serial killer's grave or something like that. It's not like that's not exactly the same thing, but it had that pull. Like she was a person that people were.
fascinated by and invested in and like they've been following this story and she was a celebrity as much as she was an outlaw. So she was a big deal. People understood that this was a historic funeral regardless of who she might have been in the media. But on the flip side, the other reason so many people showed up to her funeral is
There was the whole community of people who knew her when she was a child and a young woman and before she got swept up in all of this drama. And she was deeply beloved by so many people before she became Bonnie of Bonnie and Clyde. Like back when she was Bonnie Parker, she was so much to so many people. And a lot of people in Dallas were like, they were friends and family and they were neighbors and they were like,
The attitude was kind of like, finally she's back where she belongs. it's so sad and devastating the way it happened, but people were able to finally, it was like a sigh of release. She's back. We finally got Bonnie back. another detail about Bonnie that I really, really loved that I didn't know exactly where to put this in the story of the whole Bonnie and Clyde narrative.
But she never stopped writing. She wrote poetry literally until the day she died. There are two particularly famous poems of hers that were released. We'll link them in the description so people can read them. I'm not going to read them here. But they offered a lot of insight into who she was during this whole period. And I want to bring up the whole Robin Hood.
thing again, because one of the reasons that we know how they thought of themselves was from one of her poems. And it was titled The Trail's End. And she straight up writes right into that poem that, you know, they're not as violent as they seem. They just hate law enforcement and capitalism. Like that was like what the poem was about basically. So which like
Gina (52:14)
Man, people
in their early 20s have not changed at all.
Kathryn (52:17)
No, they have,
I literally like, girl, I hear you, same. Like, you know what I mean? Like she, yes, like that's what the poem was about. there are literally lines that say we're not that bad, you know?
Gina (52:22)
Yeah.
Kathryn (52:29)
So the other super famous poem that she wrote was called The Story of Suicide Sal, in which, you know, just the way the poem progresses, it does suggest that she just got swept up in everything,
she had chosen this role as Crimestars wife or spouse or girlfriend or whatever. And that's who she was now. And there was no going back,
So these poems really humanized her in a way that people hadn't really seen before. It's also noted in one of the poems, I think it's the trail's end, that Bonnie totally predicted the end of her story. Like she straight up wrote like,
that she was going to die by Clyde's side and it was going to be this big dramatic ending. you know, I don't know. It's interesting. I really there's like a poetry around the poem as it relates to herself in general. So it's definitely worth a read. very highly recommend everyone ⁓ go read them. But one thing that she did not accurately predict is
it is suggested that her wishes were for her to be buried next to Clyde after they died, but her mother said, fuck that. She felt that she had lost her daughter to this guy in life and basically she didn't want to lose her to him in death as well. So both of their graves are in Dallas, but they're buried at separate cemeteries. I'm not going to go exactly. Yeah, have no questions, like
Gina (53:43)
Huh.
I get that.
Kathryn (54:01)
not gonna go into their legacy, because we all know what it is. One thing I do wanna bring back up just really quick is the piece about kind of her reputation and why we thought of her the way we thought of her beyond just the photos. remember she had this reputation as being this really,
big bad lady, mean machine, like rough and tumble kind of gal. So in addition to the photos, one of the reasons she had this reputation was because of a false confession by our boy WD. Yes, yes, he has. So here's the story. One night in Dallas in 1933, so the year before she was killed, Bonnie...
Gina (54:34)
has betrayed again. Okay.
Kathryn (54:45)
Clyde and this Jones guy fell into a trap set by the authorities for a different criminal that law enforcement were tracking at the time. Yeah, isn't that like the most like loony tunes bullshit you've ever heard? Yes. So I'm not going to go into all the details on that, but basically Clyde was like startled and not that that's an excuse, but he...
Gina (54:54)
Hahaha
That's Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (55:12)
shot and killed this deputy who was there shooting at him and Bonnie and this WD, I'm just going to call him Jones, Bonnie and this Jones guy were waiting in the getaway car for Clyde and they were startled when they heard the gunfire and in his confession to the police after he was caught for something else, these guys were just always committing crimes. Jones claimed
that he started the getaway car in this situation while Bonnie was like, like firing out the window to like protect themselves from law enforcement to go get Clyde. So this is the version of the story about her that we had, you know, for years and years and years until several decades later, was sometime in like the late sixties or seventies, he was being interviewed by Playboy Magazine.
And in this interview, his story changed and he was like talking about his life on the road with Bonnie and Clyde and blah, blah, blah. And he said, when asked about Bonnie, he said, quote, as far as I know, Bonnie never packed a gun. During the five big gun battles we were part of while I was with them, she never once fired a gun.
Yes, that is very different. So all these, and that's the note I want to end on because all of these years she was known as this like big bad bitch. And it wasn't until the later half of the century that we started to get confirmation that that really wasn't the case at all.
Gina (56:40)
That's very different than what I thought.
Hmm.
Kathryn (57:02)
Yeah, so that's it. That's Bonnie Parker.
Gina (57:05)
⁓ man, I really like that. I think it's very interesting. I find myself compelled, Kathryn by how much personality shines through her story. Because I feel like the stereotype is ⁓ when young women or girls get together with quote bad boys, they lose who they are and become just an extension of the man. And I don't feel like that's what happened at all with Bonnie.
Kathryn (57:08)
Me too.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. No.
Gina (57:35)
Like there are things that happened in her life that probably wouldn't have happened without the men that she was involved with, but the things like the poetry and how silly and fun she was in the pictures. Like there's a lot in there other than just she was a brilliant student and then she was a criminal and that's the end of the story. That's really interesting.
Kathryn (57:48)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I've been searching. I have this opinion that I like have casually been searching for proof that I'm not totally crazy for a long time. And I feel like she proves it for me because there is this whole like, and I'm, are gonna hate me for this, but I feel like there's, once you grow up,
and you're out of your bad boy phase. you're like, we as women are inclined to say, don't date the bad boy. That's natural, I get it. But there's always a part of me that's like, unless you want to, you know? Unless you want to. Because, but it's because of this. It's like, my advice is like, don't marry the bad boy and expect him to suddenly not be a bad boy anymore. That's the advice I wanna give. It very much feels like,
Gina (58:38)
hahahahah ⁓
Kathryn (58:53)
Bonnie knew she could have easily just not gotten with Clyde once she knew that it wasn't gonna be so much different than Roy. But she chose to because maybe she wanted to go on a little road trip. Maybe she wanted to be a famous outlaw. You know what I mean? And it's like, I'm not advocating anything. I'm not like, you know. They did bad things, okay? I wanna be very clear about that, but.
Gina (59:11)
Yeah.
about.
Kathryn (59:24)
I'm like basically just know what you're getting into and be prepared to Live the consequences. That's all I'm saying. That's my that's my advice Yeah
Gina (59:34)
Yeah, and sometimes if you want to
be the bad girl, do it. Why not? Why not? Because it is within the content, that kind of women always like the bad boy thing. There's not really a narrative about being a bad girl. It's just always like the onus is on women to be a good influence on the man. And sometimes I don't want to be a good influence. I want to be just like a shitty little gremlin and that's okay. Not in the way that I want to, well, I do kind of want.
Kathryn (59:38)
That's kinda it, yeah, I'm kinda like, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gina (1:00:02)
Rob Banks. won't. say that on the podcast. I will not Rob Banks, but
Kathryn (1:00:04)
I gonna say, know you do. Yeah, she won't,
but she wants to. I can confirm that. That's exactly why people were so obsessed with them, because yes, but not everyone's as comfortable admitting that, because it's naughty. That's not good. You shouldn't rob Banks Gina, but it's like.
Gina (1:00:09)
Who amongst us does not want to wrap?
Mm-hmm.
Kinda fun though.
Kathryn (1:00:26)
The only thing stopping me from doing that is like knowing 100%, like besides it being wrong or whatever, is knowing 100 % I would get caught. I would not get away with it. But there is that, like I get that thrill, you know? Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. I also hate, I'm definitely a getaway car, kind of girly. I'm a getaway girly. Yes, that I can do. Speed all the time.
Gina (1:00:39)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Like a high stakes puzzle.
I couldn't be a good,
I get so stressed when people are in the car with me while I drive, I couldn't do it. I know you know, you've been in the car with me when I've almost killed everyone.
Kathryn (1:00:56)
No. I know. No, I don't give a fuck. I know.
No, you did good. you making left turns nowadays?
Gina (1:01:10)
No, I don't drive anymore.
Kathryn (1:01:13)
Boy boy.
Gina (1:01:16)
I hate a left turn, they should be illegal.
Kathryn (1:01:17)
Yeah,
I've been with you for three of those. You did good though. Man, yeah. Anyway, yeah, so that's it. Yeah, I love that story.
Gina (1:01:22)
Thank you.
Anyway, well thank you for that wonderful, wonderful, excellent story. What a way
to end the last full story episode of Femme Fatale Month. I really enjoyed that very much.
Kathryn (1:01:33)
Yeah.
I do apologize to everyone for my true crime heavy month this month, but they were the stories I wanted to tell and I feel like this is the energy I wanna end on for the month. Yeah. Good.
Gina (1:01:49)
I agree, I'm fully here for it. May I interest
you in a scary on top?
Kathryn (1:01:54)
You know you always interest me in a scary on top.
Gina (1:01:57)
Okie dokie.
So my cousins, as you may remember, just went on a trip to New Orleans. So shout out to Jess and Blake. And my lovely cousin Jess sent me an email about their experience there along with some pictures. And so I wanna read the email to you and we can add some of the pictures to the video as well. So, it says.
Kathryn (1:02:03)
yeah. Yes! Yes, yes, yes.
for sure.
Gina (1:02:22)
Hi Gina and Kathryn. Just wanted to send you guys some of the pictures I took while we were in New Orleans. I thought you guys would enjoy them. I attached them in the folder and named them in order of my descriptions. Pause because her picture organization skills, my god, pristine. So gorgeous. They were so easy to follow along with. This is like, I'm so proud to be blood related to her. Okay, sorry, back to the email.
Kathryn (1:02:38)
I love that. Yeah.
Yeah, no, that's great.
Gina (1:02:51)
I listened to your recent New Orleans episodes, but other than that, I am a year behind. So if you guys talked about any of these things, sorry in advance. I don't think we did Jess, so it's completely okay. Never apologize. It's still completely fine. We were mostly in the Lower Garden District, but we did make it to the French Quarter on Sunday. We got a tour of St. Louis Cemetery number one. And then she has like bullet points of what they learned at St. Louis Cemetery number one. So I'll read those too. It is so cool.
Kathryn (1:03:00)
Yeah, even if we did, that's still okay. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
That is so cool.
Gina (1:03:20)
So she said, first we saw Nick Cage's tomb. Apparently he bought the Lollaree Mansion and another building in New Orleans at the same time and then believed he was cursed. So the church told him he could buy a plot of land and have a very specific and expensive tomb made to relieve him of the curse.
Kathryn (1:03:42)
my god, I didn't know any of this. I literally mentioned him in the episode. I didn't know that. That's fun. Yeah. At first I was like, wait, is that a typo? He's not dead. But makes sense. Yeah.
Gina (1:03:44)
Me neither!
Isn't that wild? That's so funny.
I thought the same thing. was like, hold on, is there like a historical
Nick Cage that I didn't know about?
Kathryn (1:03:58)
I know, was like, shoot, what? Why don't I know this? That's fun.
Gina (1:04:01)
She also says, there are two massive tombs for the Italian Mutual Benevolent Society and Portuguese societies housing over 3,000 people in each. There is a tomb for the 12 soldiers that survived the 1815 Battle of New Orleans. Plessy of Plessy versus Ferguson is also buried there. The tour guide gave us the full story leading up to the case and how it shaped the future of New Orleans and America.
There's also the tomb of Bernard de Mérigny, I think that's how you say it. Before we approached this tomb, the tour guide gave all the women on the tour explicit instructions to stand directly in front of this tomb. This guy was one of the first playboys of New Orleans and is still said to touch women in inappropriate places from beyond the grave.
The tour guide at the end even had all the women wipe off their butts to ensure his ghost didn't continue with us as we left.
Kathryn (1:04:55)
my God.
my God, what the hell?
Gina (1:05:06)
I know,
I know, yeah.
Kathryn (1:05:08)
do not know about that too. I mentioned the Plessy too. I might've edited that out though, cause that was cemetery month and we were still kind of new and like that was the transition into things getting like real dark. ⁓ But maybe I left it in. I don't remember. That's cool though. Yeah, I may have. Man, that's so, I want to take a tour there so bad.
Gina (1:05:24)
It rang a bell, I thought you mentioned that one, yeah.
I know, yeah, and there's like more stuff too that she sent, it's incredible. So the back section of the cemetery is specifically for Protestants. It sits right on the line between the split of the cemetery, the Catholic area and the Protestant area. Protestants were in the lesser part of New Orleans, meaning their cemeteries were overcrowded and often flooded, and in turn caused large amounts of yellow fever.
Kathryn (1:05:40)
Hmm.
Gina (1:05:57)
A concession was made to bury some of them in a cleaner area, but it is very clearly separated from the Catholic side. So, yeah, if we're ever buried in St. Louis Cemetery Number One, we have to get them to make a special concession for us.
Kathryn (1:06:05)
Interesting.
Oh yeah, I always forget about that. I don't know why I always think you're a Methodist.
I don't know. I have no idea why.
Gina (1:06:19)
Well,
I was when I was young and hopeful.
Kathryn (1:06:23)
Wait, what? You switched?
Gina (1:06:24)
I was a Methodist.
I was raised Methodist. Methodist is Protestant. It's like a branch of Protestantism.
Kathryn (1:06:28)
What? ⁓
I did not know that. I thought those were two different things.
Gina (1:06:33)
Nah, it's okay. Anyway. A group of musicians bought a tomb in the cemetery and put out a call to any other musicians' families that said any musician could be buried in the tomb with them. It is the largest collection of musicians in one tomb. I thought that was lovely. Yeah. Okay, two more points about St. Louis Cemetery number one.
Kathryn (1:06:36)
Anyway.
That's wild. Yeah.
Gina (1:06:59)
There are two kinds of tombs and picture 11 shows the older kind that they are slowly restoring. Also, once a family has died out, they remove the plaque on the front. And then of course, Marie Laveau's tomb. the reason you have to make a reservation now to visit the cemetery is because during COVID, a group of drunk girls desecrated this tomb with three Xs.
This is supposed to be a symbol asking the deceased for help, but if done incorrectly, can instead curse you. It also creates a super big fine, which the church just finished collecting to resurface the tomb. Related to your episode, the tour guide said that the two children she had with her first husband died before she got together with her second husband.
Kathryn (1:07:49)
Okay.
Gina (1:07:50)
I did not know that about her tomb being defaced. It's very sad.
Kathryn (1:07:53)
Yeah, me either.
Gina (1:07:55)
We walked down to the LaLaurie Mansion. Google said that even standing under the awnings could curse you. So we have a nice picture from across the street. And then she put a little smiley face. They also went to the Ursuline convent. And then she has a parentheses that says, I told Gina this, Kathryn, but I read this book and is a book called The Casquette
Kathryn (1:08:04)
Smart.
Gina (1:08:18)
Girls, it is by, oh have you heard of it before? It's Alice Arden.
Kathryn (1:08:20)
Oh, that's the one.
Yes, I, okay. So just started interrupt, but when I was doing like research for the, what was that one scary on top I did? Oh my God, why can't I think of it?
like the gates to the underworld or whatever. I don't remember what I searched, but that book came up and I was nervous that I was just gonna like accidentally do your episode. Cause you hadn't, I think I did that scary on top for that episode. So I was like, oh, this is an adorable book. Like I want to read this, but also is this the same story as what you're telling me? But no, it was different. Yeah.
Gina (1:08:40)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I remember that, yeah.
Kathryn (1:09:04)
Yeah, that's on my reading list. ⁓
Gina (1:09:04)
Okay, cool. Excellent.
Well, she says that it is fun, but she hasn't read past the second one. She might continue on with the series, but more on that later. So, ⁓ she said it was Sunday, so we couldn't go on the full tour slash look at the museum. However, one of the shutters on the third floor was definitely not closed all the way. Is there a specific window that is supposed to be the vampire one?
Kathryn (1:09:14)
Excellent.
Gina (1:09:33)
I got that feeling from the book, but there are a lot on the third floor. And then I did look into this a little bit more. I don't think it is supposed to be a specific window. Everything that I found just said kind of vaguely the window slash windows on the third floor. I do remember reading somewhere that the room that was supposedly the vampire room is actually used for storage.
Kathryn (1:09:45)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (1:09:57)
So I emailed Jess back and I was like, they may have just been like airing out the room, but that's very boring. So we can pretend that there were vampires in there.
Kathryn (1:09:57)
Mm.
Maybe the vampires were airing out the room.
Gina (1:10:10)
They needed some nice spring air too, you know. And then she said, we scheduled a vampire tour in the hopes of learning about interview with a vampire. We didn't, and I don't know if I would necessarily recommend that tour. I know.
Kathryn (1:10:14)
you
Have fun.
That's funny Yes,
it's very so we only you know, only took one tour in New Orleans, right and we kind of had the same experience
Gina (1:10:35)
Yeah. And even
then we took about half of the tour because we just dropped off. Yeah.
Kathryn (1:10:40)
Yeah, that's generous. Yeah, it
may have been a little less than that, but yes.
Gina (1:10:44)
Yeah, yeah.
We are running out of time on this episode, but if you do want to hear more about Jess and Blake's experience on the Vampire Tour, we're going to put that on our Patreon, so make sure to check it If you have any stories that you would like read at the end of the episode,
in our scary on tops, feel free to send them to iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com. Also, if you haven't gotten the hint, we have a Patreon. You can check it out if you want to. is in the show notes We'd love to see you there. But until next time, little spoons, keep it cool.
Kathryn (1:11:17)
and keep it creepy.
