Ep. 58: The Flying Dutchman

Ghosts

9 Dec

Note: Our transcription software got a little confused during this episode. You might see some duplicated sections or instances where Kathryn and Gina appear to say the same thing.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Gina (00:10)

Welcome to, wait, okay, hi, hello. Welcome to I scream you scream. We're still in person here in Milwaukee in a basement. ⁓

Kathryn (00:10)

Welcome to, wait, OK, hi, hello. Welcome to I scream, you scream. We're still in person here in Milwaukee in a basement.

We're your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories, mysteries, and paranormal perplexities. My name's Kathryn. I'm Gina.

Gina (00:23)

your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories mysteries and paranormal perplexities. My name is Kathryn. I'm Gina.

That's pretty much it. That's pretty much it. We are drinking cocktails. Cheers. Celebrate some in-person situations.

Kathryn (00:31)

That's pretty much it. We are drinking cocktails, cheers, celebrate some in-person situations,

and we're telling ghost stories. And think that's all you need to know, right? I don't think we have any announcements other than we are in person, live from Milwaukee. We did have some lovely sandwiches.

Gina (00:40)

think I don't think we have much banter today. We just had some lovely sandwiches from Colectivo.

Shout out Colectivo

Kathryn (00:52)

Shout out Colectivo

hashtag not sponsored, but actually really deeply wannabe Like you're you're on my list of want to be sponsored by for real someday. So if you're listening Colectivo sponsor us What the fuck give me some coffee? don't know what else to say. Oh Yeah, grab a spoon. Let's dig in grab a cocktail. Have a sip whatever you're doing Whatever you want be free

Gina (00:53)

hashtag not sponsored but actually really deeply wannabe. Yeah, I've- You're on my list of want to be sponsored by for real someday so- Yeah. If you're listening, Colectivo sponsor us. What the fuck? What the fuck? Give me some coffee. Um, I don't know what else to say. Grab a spoon and let's dig in. Oh yeah, grab a spoon and let's dig in. Beautiful. cocktail, have a sip, whatever you're doing. Whatever the fuck you want. Whatever you want. Have a jello shot. Be free. Be

bold.

Kathryn (01:21)

Should we tell them that there's someone behind the scenes today?

Gina (01:21)

Should we tell them that there's someone behind the camera? We do for

the first time. There is someone watching us record this. Oh my goodness! So great! I love it. Hi, Tom. Hello, Tom. beautiful bethrothed Anyway, so today we have ghost stories. was just to remember on before we started sexing with Tom.

Kathryn (01:26)

Ew, I hate it, it's so great, I love it. Hi Tom.

Anyway, so today we have ghost stories. I was just trying to move on before we started sexing with Tom on

accident.

I don't know how to do banter in person. This is so hard. We have things to talk about. We haven't talked yet about why you're in town.

Gina (01:46)

Well it's hard because usually when we banter on the podcast it's because we have things to tell each other and we've been together for 48 hours straight.

Kathryn's wedding reception is why I'm in town. I forgot about that, too Yeah, we had a lovely trip to Goodwill earlier where we found some really nice vases for the decor that was fun

Kathryn (01:59)

I keep forgetting. I keep forgetting. To us, this is just a pod vacation. I have so much to do this week. I'm so sad and scared. did. ⁓ shit, yeah we did. Yes,

we got a lot of really pretty vases We went to an antique store. was great. Antiques on Piers. We did Zoltar, yes! Yes, that was fun. I didn't know that that was a working Zoltar.

Gina (02:16)

That We did Zoltar. Zoltar is fun.

I've

Kathryn (02:26)

I've lived here for many years. I've seen that guy many times. Didn't know he took real dollars. So thank you for that. I hope it's me. Pock has Soltar.

Gina (02:26)

lived here for many years. I've seen that guy many times. Didn't know he took real dollars. So thank you for that. So whoever winds up buying that thing is going have so much of my money. I hope it's me. can reinvest. Podcasts ultar, podtar. know what that makes me think of? Rugrats. Yeah, Reptar. don't want to say anything that was wildly inaccurate. Yeah, Reptar. Very different thing, but same energy.

Kathryn (02:43)

You know what that makes me think of? rep reps. I was gonna say reptar? Yes, but I didn't want to say it in case that was like wildly inaccurate. Yes, rep, reptar. Very different thing, but same energy.

Gina (02:54)

Same vibes.

Kathryn (02:54)

Same vibes. Yeah.

Gina (02:56)

Distant cousin of Soltar. Reptar the dinosaur. I have a story. I would love to hear your story. Excellent.

Kathryn (02:57)

Absolutely. All right. I would love to hear your story.

Gina (03:03)

Hit me with it. I have been wanting to do an episode on the Flying Dutchman since we started this It has been on my list for forever. And when we decided that December was Ghost Month, I thought, what is better than a ship full of ghosts where the ship is also a fucking ghost? Literally nothing.

Kathryn (03:03)

Hit me with it.

since we started this I'm so excited. It's been on my list for forever. And when we decided that December was Ghost Month, I thought, is better than a ship full of ghosts where the ship is also a fucking ghost? Nothing. Literally nothing,

Gina (03:22)

Except for all the other things we also talk about, which are equally as amazing. But other than that, Other than that, nothing. So today we're going to be talking about something that is one part maritime legend, one part sailor superstition, with a healthy dose of

Kathryn (03:22)

except for all the other things we also talk about, which are equally as amazing. But other than that, else. So today we're going to be talking about something that is one part maritime legend, one part sailor superstition, with a healthy dose of

Gina (03:35)

modern scientific explanation. Oh, OK. And I do promise the science part is actually pretty interesting. That's cool. I'm excited for that part. And it involves, not to spoil anything, a reference to a famous supposed witch, or someone who has been called a witch. OK, OK. So without further ado.

Kathryn (03:37)

Oh, okay. That's cool. I'm excited for that part.

Okay, okay.

Gina (03:52)

Let's set sails. I couldn't resist, I'm sorry. So the legend goes that the Flying Dutchman is a ghost ship that is doomed to sail around the world forever, never reaching safe harbor. the legend was born, it's been said that seeing the Dutchman while you're at sea or on land is an omen of imminent disaster and doom. And as for the legend itself and where it came from,

Kathryn (03:55)

Excellent! Yes.

the legend was born, it's been said that seeing the Dutchman while you're at sea or on land is an omen of imminent disaster and doom. And as for the legend itself and where it came from,

Gina (04:19)

What's that face? Oh, the imminent doom. Yeah, it's not fun, it? over.

Kathryn (04:19)

what's that face? Sorry, I was stuck on imminent, like, doom. Yeah, sorry. Your storytelling's great. I just got so scared there for a second.

Gina (04:30)

You look like you saw a A bug of my dreams. Scary one. So because it's a legend, we've seen this a million times, but there's no like one place.

Kathryn (04:32)

I feel like I did only a really violent scary bug. OK. So because it's a legend, we've seen this a million times, but there is no one place

that this story comes from. There's not a specific person or story that kind kickstarted this whole thing. But I'll tell you the most common version of the story first, and we'll a little bit deeper.

Gina (04:43)

that this story comes from. There's not like a specific person or story that kind of kickstarted this whole thing, but I'll tell you the most common version of the story first and then we'll dig a little bit deeper.

So the Flying Dutchman is rumored to have originally been a trading ship for the Dutch East India Trading Company centuries ago when that was a thing. And it said that it was captained by a man, it was like a particularly stubborn kind of ornery dude named Hendrik van der Decken who winds up being the person that brings the curse about. Like allegedly he is the one who kind of brought the whole Flying Dutchman thing into being.

Kathryn (05:10)

named Hendrik van der Decken, winds up being the person that brings the curse about. Like allegedly he's the one who kind of brought the whole Flying Dutchman thing into being.

Gina (05:22)

There is an alternative version of the story where it's the crew who kind of bring the curse about. In that version, it's said that the crew of the ship was guilty of heinous crimes. Doesn't really specify what those crimes were, but it's implied that it was related to slavery. And the deal was basically before the crew were turned into ghosts, which I will get into that in a second, the ship was turned away at every port that it went to because

Kathryn (05:22)

the crew were

Gina (05:51)

the crew were so

evil and also I think they were struck by like an illness that meant they were turned away to keep it from spreading. yeah, that's like a small version of the story you might see every now and then, but the main version is about our guy, Van Der Decken. And it goes like this. Der Decken was attempting to navigate the ship around the southern tip of Africa, AKA the Cape of Good Hope.

Kathryn (05:56)

Oh,

Gina (06:15)

or as it used to be known, the Cape of Storms. As the name suggests, the area is notorious for temperamental weather, which means that sailing on those waters can get really tricky, really fast if a storm rolls in. So you kind of have to know what you're doing to sail in that area. And that's exactly what happened to the Dutchman. A storm came in, Dutchman's shit got rocked, and the crew started petitioning Captain Van der Decken to turn back to safety.

Kathryn (06:15)

as it used to be known, the Cape of Storms. As the name suggests, the area is notorious for temperamental weather, which means that sailing on those waters can get really tricky, really fast if a storm rolls in. So you kind of have to know what you're doing to sail in that area. And that's exactly what happened to the Dutchman.

A storm came in, Dutchman's ship got rocked, and the crew started petitioning Captain Vanderdecken to turn back to safety.

Gina (06:44)

kind of like head for land, make port, wait out the storm somewhere, and then once things calm down, can, I gonna say hit the road again, but that's not the phrase. the water. Hit the waves. But Captain van der Decken, he wasn't a fan of this idea, because he was really stubborn.

Kathryn (06:45)

Kind of like head for make port, wait out the storm somewhere, and then once things calm down, can, I was gonna say hit the road again. That's not the phrase. Hit the water. the waves. But Captain Vanderdecken, he wasn't a fan of this idea, because he was really stubborn.

Gina (07:00)

And according to many versions of this story, he had been drinking really heavily by the time this happened. So it was kind of like a drunken, you can't tell me what to do thing, which we wouldn't know anything about. No, that's not.

Kathryn (07:00)

happened ever. basically, he was positive that he could muscle his way through the bad weather. So several of the crew tried to mutiny to force van der Decken to turn around. They were not successful.

Gina (07:12)

No, that's completely unfamiliar to us. And basically, he was positive that he could muscle his way through the bad weather. So several of the crew tried to mutiny to force Van Der Decken to turn around. They were not successful.

And Van Der Decken wound up shooting the leader of the mutineers and tossing his body overboard. Yeah, so he's not inviting good karma here. Kind of bad news, bad news bears.

Vanderdecken again refuses to turn back and he said quote not a real quote because we don't know if that's happened but theoretical quote may I be eternally damned if I do though I should beat about here till the end of judgment no that's not what it says till though I should beat about here till the day of judgment which basically is like if I turn back

Kathryn (07:47)

to us it's a direct quote

⁓ hell

Gina (08:07)

Let me be damned to hell. I will fuck around here until the end of time if I have to. And apparently, that declaration caught something's attention because the clouds parted and a figure appeared on the deck as if out of nowhere. It's described as like a celestial figure.

Kathryn (08:09)

I will fuck around here until the end of time if I have to. ⁓ And apparently that declaration caught something's attention because the clouds parted and a figure appeared on the deck as if out of nowhere. It's described as like a celestial figure. Okay.

Gina (08:27)

Van der Decken, in all of his infinite wisdom, immediately tried to shoot the figure with his gun. And the gun exploded in his hand.

Kathryn (08:32)

Sure.

Gina (08:36)

Yes, yes, yes, yes. the figure said, another theoretical quote, you are condemned to sail the oceans for eternity with a ghostly crew of dead men, bringing death to all who see your spectral ship and to never make port or know a moment's peace.

Kathryn (08:38)

another theoretical quote. You are condemned to sail the oceans for eternity with a ghostly crew of dead men, bringing death to all who see your spectral ship and to never make port or know a moment's peace.

Gina (08:53)

Furthermore, gall shall be your drink and dread hot iron your meat. And apparently,

Kathryn (08:54)

Furthermore, gall shall be your drink and dread hot iron your moves. And apparently,

van der Decken replied by saying, amen to that. That, Gina, that's some shit that you would say. This is you. Dude, it's so fucking funny. My next bullet point is, that cracks me up. Yeah, that's because that's some shit you would say. amen to that, dude. Fuck yeah. I would immediately be like cowering.

Gina (09:01)

van der Decken can reply by saying, amen to that. ⁓

Dude, it's so fucking funny. My next bullet point is that cracks me up It's so I'm into that dude fuck yeah

Kathryn (09:24)

Apologizing my backbone would be gone You'd be like yeah, fuck you too want to come over for some iron steak dinner. Yeah

Gina (09:27)

You'd like, yeah, fuck you too, wanna come over I'm having fun out here. We got some grog, we got some salted pork, what else do you need?

This scary spirit, potentially God, is dooming you for all time and you're just like, hell yeah, brother, rock on. That's basically what he did. And apparently from that moment on,

Kathryn (09:35)

This scary spirit, potentially God, is doing you for all time and you're just like, hell yeah brother, rock on. That's basically what he did. Apparently from that moment on,

the Dutchman has been sailing the seas, bringing doom and to all who see it. And if you do see it, it does sound really terrifying. You'll often see it floating above the water, the flying Dutchman.

Gina (09:47)

The Dutchman has been sailing the seas, bringing doom and gloom to all who see it. And if you do see it, it does sound really terrifying. You'll often see it floating above the water, hence the flying part of the Flying Dutchman,

with tattered sails surrounded by thick fog or glowing mist. Like the weather will be like sunny and beautiful everywhere, right over the Dutchman.

Kathryn (10:00)

with tattered sails surrounded by thick fog or glowing mist. Like the weather will be like sunny and beautiful everywhere, right over the Dutchman,

Gina (10:10)

it's misty or like a storm is rolling in. It's like isolated to where the Dutchman is.

Kathryn (10:10)

it's misty or like a storm is rolling in. It's like isolated to where the Dutchman is. That is one of the scariest things about, if you ever see like, I can't think of a specific example, but like pirate movies or whatever, where there's like a ghost ship or something. That is one thing that it...

Gina (10:20)

can't think of a specific example, like pirate movies or whatever, where there's like a ship or something. That is one thing that

does scare me when you know you're out on the open water and there's nothing but fog. Fog is inherently disorienting, but so is being at sea, so those two things together is just too much for my emotions. That's like too emotional. It's scary. I mean, the ocean in general is scary. And what I was thinking about when I was reading, well, I was thinking about two things, Pirates of the Caribbean.

Kathryn (10:27)

does scare me when it's like, know you're out on the open water and there's nothing but fog. Fog is inherently disorienting, but so is being at sea. So those two things together is just too much for my emotions. That's like too liminal. It's scary. I mean, the ocean in general is scary. Oh, for sure. I was thinking about two things. Pirates of the Caribbean.

Yeah. then also, so the Assassin's Creed game franchise has.

Gina (10:49)

because obviously. then also, ⁓ so the Assassin's Creed game franchise has

a pirate's game, basically, Black Flag. And there are ghost ships in it. And so you'll just be sailing your little pirate ship through the waters. It'll suddenly get foggy. And then out of nowhere, a ship that's like 10 times the size of you, you'll just see its shadows start to come towards you. And even like, it's fucking video game and my heart drops into my butt. It's terrifying.

Kathryn (11:11)

Okay That's so scary

we talk about the fact that it just got dark as you said that

Gina (11:19)

I made that happen. It's the Dutchman. I've been practicing my weather control a lot. But yes, so if you look, this part is creepy too. If you let the ship get close enough to you, it said that the Dutchman's crew might try and flag you down and they'll try and give you letters that they've written to their family members to deliver. But it said that accepting one of these letters is horrible luck.

Kathryn (11:21)

You're really good at podcasting. You're really good. Okay. ⁓ Okay

so sad. And they're like, if they see someone and they're like, please get this to them, that feels very desperate. It doesn't feel like they mean to curse you, And also like.

Gina (11:49)

sad, especially because all of their family members would be dead by now. So it's just very hopeless.

Yeah.

Kathryn (12:06)

scary because you know damn well I would not be able to say no. I'm really in danger of like getting cursed through like sadness. you know what mean? You know

Gina (12:08)

Right.

Kathryn (12:17)

those like shows and movies where it's like people have to be like no that's not really your mom. I like wouldn't be able to do that. You know what I mean? Yeah

Gina (12:23)

Yeah, because what if

But yes, bad luck letters, which kind of suck. But the Dutchman itself, doesn't just like appear and give you bad luck and like ask you to be its mailman. It also apparently goes out of its way to lure ships off course to try and trick them into crashing into rocks or

Kathryn (12:36)

sad

Gina (12:47)

things like that. It's trying to shipwreck you. So it does actively try to harm people. One thing that's not clear in the legends is if it's the ship doing it

or if it's the crew slash Van der Decken doing it. Because that's part of the whole deal is that the ship is just as cursed as the people on it. So there's a lot of vagueness in the legend.

Kathryn (12:56)

or if it's the crew slash van der Decken doing it because that's part of the whole deal is that the ship is as just as cursed as the people on it so there's a lot of vagueness in the legend

that's interesting

Yeah. Gina's the flying Dutchman. just like, flowed out the window. ⁓

Gina (13:10)

it just got really bright that was also my weather control. Yeah, Gina's the flying It's been me the whole time. I just become a boat. But like I'm still the same size, just a boat.

Like one of those little kid boats. But yeah.

So like I said, we'll never know the true origins of this story, but there's a lot of speculation about where it could have come from. Interestingly, I thought this was such a fun way to view this legend. A lot of people think that it's a branch of the Odyssey. Like retellings of the Odyssey over millennia transformed into.

Kathryn (13:31)

But there's a lot of speculation about where it could have come from. Interestingly, I thought this was such a fun...

Gina (13:50)

the Flying Dutchman we know today because there's and it makes sense to me because there are parallels in the story like you've never made that connection in my elbow but it makes sense like a ship a curse by a god doomed to sail and never be able to go home like it totally tracks it's just very it's like displaced. That's interesting. Yeah. But of course this story isn't quite as old as the Odyssey is the first printed reference to the Flying Dutchman was actually much more recent than I thought it was it was only the 18th century.

Kathryn (13:54)

I would never make that connection on my own though personally it does yeah, yeah

Yeah, it does. Hmm, that's interesting. Yeah. of course, this story isn't quite as old as the Odyssey is. The first printed reference to the Flying Dutchman was actually much more recent than I thought it was. It was only the 18th century

that we saw the Dutchman being spoken about in print.

Gina (14:19)

that we saw the Dutchman being spoken about in print.

we suspect that the legend itself actually started before that, which would make sense. You talk about things before you write them down. And the reason why the 18th century here is so important is because that was the golden age of Dutch trading and sailing. And that was also when the Dutch East India Trading Company was regularly having to navigate the Cape of Good Hope. So it's possible that it started as a way of like,

Kathryn (14:23)

we suspect that the legend itself actually started before that which would make sense to talk about things before you write them down and the reason why the 18th century here is so important is because that was the golden age of Dutch trading and sailing and that was also when the Dutch East India Trading Company was regularly having to navigate the Cape of Good Hope so it's possible that it started as a way of like

Gina (14:48)

a cautionary tale about the Cape of Good Hope and how dangerous it is to sail

Kathryn (14:48)

a cautionary tale about the Cape of Good Hope and how dangerous it is to

Gina (14:52)

those waters and that if you see a storm rolling in, it could be the Dutchman, might not be the Dutchman, either way don't fuck with it. Like just get away from there if you can. But some historians also speculate that it could be based on the story of a real 17th century Dutch captain. I didn't look up how to say this

Kathryn (15:12)

you say is correct

Yeah, that sounds right to me.

Gina (15:17)

Yeah, that sounds right to me. Oh no. I should have looked up how to say that.

That's a hilarious name. Maybe it's folky.

Kathryn (15:23)

a hilarious name. Maybe it's folky.

Gina (15:28)

Wow. Happy Ghost Month, everyone. Love it. OK, I'm going to start that sentence over again, because I'm going to edit all of that out. No, no, you have to keep it in. That was fantastic. Oh, I'm so embarrassed I didn't look up how to say this. I'm so sorry.

Kathryn (15:28)

Wow, happy Ghost Month everyone No, no you have to keep it in that was fantastic Do it ⁓

Gina (15:40)

phonetic pronunciation in the show. Anyway, so, Bernard Fokke worked for the Dutch East India Company and his whole thing was that he

could sail really, really quickly. Like a trip that would take most people eight months, he could do in half the time. He was just really, really good at his job and he was so good at it that there were rumors that he was in league with the devil So it's possible that his story

Kathryn (15:58)

Wow.

Gina (16:06)

kind of fed into like a big game of sailor telephone, where people would say, hey, have you heard about this crazy captain who's like working with the devil? And over time, it changed and became a story of a crazy captain who doomed his whole crew kind of thing. So in more recent years though, like 19th century onward, that legend really exploded into all of the adaptations and the Pirates of the Caribbean movies and things like that that we know now.

Kathryn (16:06)

fed into a big game of sailor telephone. People would say, have you heard about this crazy captain who's working with the devil? And over time, it changed and became a story of a crazy captain who doomed his whole crew. In more recent years, though, like 19th century onward, that legend really exploded into all of the adaptations and the Pirates of the Caribbean movies and things like that that we know now.

Gina (16:35)

It's only recently that it's become kind of like mainstream. Other people know about it. Yeah.

Kathryn (16:35)

It's only recently that it's become kind of mainstream. Other people know about it, yeah.

Gina (16:41)

Most notably, in 1821, Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine published a short story that basically wound up being the framework for the legend we know today. And everything that kind of came after that, all the modern stuff that we know, uses that short story as a springboard. is one

Kathryn (16:41)

Retelling of it though that I am particularly enchanted with. Okay. is romantic. It's in an opera and in this version of the story

Gina (16:59)

retelling of it, though, that I am particularly enchanted with because it is romantic. It's in an opera. And in this version of the story,

Kathryn (17:08)

the captain of the Dutchman Same deal like cursed to sail around forever blah blah blah. But he can break the curse by gaining a woman's love. ⁓ I love that. I love a love story. I'm a sucker for that. I love it, especially ghost story plus love story plus a pirate ship.

Gina (17:08)

the captain of the Dutchman, same deal, like cursed to sail around forever, blah, blah, blah, but he can break the curse by gaining a woman's love. ⁓ I love that. Me too. Love a love story. I'm a sucker for that kind of thing. ghost story plus love story plus pirate ship.

Kathryn (17:27)

Plus, this guy like all the best stuff. I love that. up. Yes, I love it. I love

Gina (17:29)

Dude, I know. Any kind of like a Beauty and the Beast thing, like if somebody loves you, the curse will be, a sucker for it. yeah, I'm just there.

So the deal was in this one that the captain would be allowed on land once every seven years to try and win someone's heart.

Kathryn (17:42)

Oh, that's

a long time. Yeah. that's I was gonna ask. Okay. You didn't? Jaina.

Gina (17:48)

But not, yeah, it's like a long time in between stints. And I don't know how long he would be allowed to go on land for. didn't, yeah, yeah, I did not read the opera because I didn't have time. But I was curious about that too.

I sang it in my shower and I didn't. But if you've seen like the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, I'm pretty sure that's where they get that whole thing because that's an angle in one of them that Davy Jones quote, I think it's Davy Jones, can only come on land once every.

Kathryn (18:05)

Caribbean movies, I'm pretty sure that's where they get that whole thing because that's an angle in one of them that Davy Jones quote, I think it's Davy Jones, can only come on land once ever. Oh, I don't

remember that. Okay. It's like one of the other ones after. I just. I was gonna say I watched that first one 400,000 times. I was during my Orlando Bloom phase, but I never watched any, like I know I saw the other ones, but I don't know how many there are anymore. An Orlando Bloom phase is

Gina (18:15)

I have for many years. It's like one of the later ones after... after the good bits.

but I never watched.

An Orlando Bloom phase is a

magical time in every girl's life. had pictures of him cut out of every magazine he appeared in and it was like him and a few others. He's just a gorgeous man. He's just beautiful.

Kathryn (18:35)

Every girl

had pictures of him cut out of every magazine he appeared in and it was like him and a few others but he was the main one yeah yes

Gina (18:53)

But

Kathryn (18:48)

anyway what were we talking about yeah Tom's still here

Gina (18:54)

not all stories about the Dutchman are grounded in fiction. There have been and continue to be real reported sightings. In 1939,

Dozens of people on a beach in Cape Town reported seeing the Flying Dutchman sailing directly for the beach before it disappeared before their eyes.

Kathryn (19:15)

Ooh. I love this. I have things I want to say but I won't wait until you get to the science part because... Okay.

Gina (19:20)

Okay, it's soon.

Kathryn (19:23)

That's so creepy, can you imagine? Especially that era, that was like, I don't know what era we consider modern science, but 39 is like long enough ago that yeah, feel like it's it's late enough to know that you don't know things, like that there are things to learn, the average person.

Gina (19:25)

know. was getting into it. But yeah, feel like it's still... It's late enough to know that you don't know things, like that there are things to the average person didn't.

Kathryn (19:47)

didn't,

well I'm just talking about science in general, even modern times, we all should know a lot more than we actually do. But, I don't know, that's just like an era, that era's like mysterious to me regardless. I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Gina (19:57)

Yeah, because it was kind of like

extra eerie to hear about these things happening back then because I think that's pretty much the

Kathryn (20:02)

extra eerie to hear about these things happening back then because I that's pretty much the-

Gina (20:07)

farthest back I can go in history where I feel like I can still identify with what was happening.

Kathryn (20:07)

Farthest back I can go in history where I feel like I can still identify with what was happening. I think that

that's what it is, where it's like, know, like my grandma would have been a child that time period, you know? it's the post-industrialization where it's like, people know that there is an answer to what they're seeing. So if you don't find an answer, what could that be? You know what I mean? It's almost like proof to the fact that it's spooky.

Gina (20:16)

that time period. know, so the post-industrialization where it's like people know that there is an answer to what they're seeing. So if you don't find an answer...

What could that be? Yeah, I mean, it's almost like proof to the fact that it's spooky.

Yeah. In understanding that like if you can't prove it, but it is provable before that in time periods before that, you didn't necessarily know it was provable. There just be like God, like a sign from God or yeah, or a demon or whatever. Yeah, that's what it is. It's this weird in between time. Yeah. We have enough knowledge to know this is something that can be explained, but don't know how to explain it. So therefore can it be explained?

Kathryn (20:33)

in understanding that like if you can't prove it, but it is provable before that, in time periods before that, you didn't necessarily know it was provable, you know? It would just be like, that's a god or whatever. Right, right, right. Yeah, that's what it is. It's this weird in-between time where it's like we have enough knowledge to know this is something that can be explained but don't know how to explain it, so therefore can it be explained?

Gina (20:57)

Yes, yeah, and that that's I think a great transition into

Kathryn (20:58)

I don't know. ⁓

Gina (21:02)

the next like real-life sighting but like allegedly happened this one It wasn't like officially on the books, but during World War two. It's rumored that a German U-boat spotted the Dutchman allegedly the crew so scared that they all agreed after the fact that they would rather face the combined strength of all of the Allied naval forces Before seeing the Dutchman again

Kathryn (21:02)

⁓ Okay.

Gina (21:26)

And some people claim that the sighting was officially recorded in their log books.

I couldn't find any proof of that, but I think it's very possible that it was omitted from the record, but the verbal story lives on. Because I looked a little bit into the guy who would have been ⁓ commander is not the right word, but basically the person in charge of that specific U-boat. And he was known to be a very known nonsense. doesn't seem like the kind of person who would let that into official record.

Kathryn (21:31)

I couldn't find any proof of that, but I think it's very possible that it was omitted from the record, but the verbal story lives on. Because I looked a little bit into the guy who would have been... Commander is not the right word, but basically the person in charge of that specific U-boat, and he was known to be a very known nonsense. didn't seem like the kind of person who would let that into official record.

Gina (21:53)

But I just think it's it like you don't think about Nazis seeing the Flying Dutchman.

Kathryn (21:53)

I just think it's... You don't think about Nazis seeing the Flying Dutchman. bonkers.

That is bonkers. And for something,

Gina (21:58)

Yeah.

Kathryn (22:00)

even for argument's sake, even if it wasn't the Flying Dutchman, for something to be so scary that you'd rather at war or whatever, gnarly. Classic.

Gina (22:02)

Even

something to be so scary that you

be at war or whatever. gnarly. Yeah. But the most popular and widely known story comes from

none other than a British monarch. Classic. Yes. King George V, AKA Queen Victoria's grandson, also reported a Dutchman sighting. It was in 1881, and he was on a three-year-long voyage with the Royal Navy because he was serving at the time. And he wrote, July 11.

Kathryn (22:23)

Yes, King George V, aka Queen Victoria's grandson, also reported a Dutchman sighting. It was in 1881, and he was on a three-year-long voyage with the Royal Navy because he was serving at the time. And he wrote, quote, July 11th,

at 4 a.m., the Flying Dutchman crossed our bows. And he went on to describe the ship as being lit with a phantom red light. ⁓ when they drew closer to it, the ship disappeared.

Gina (22:40)

At 4 a.m., the Flying Dutchman crossed our bows. And he went on to describe the ship as being lit with a phantom red light. And when they drew closer to it, the ship disappeared completely

Kathryn (22:52)

Yikes.

Gina (22:53)

into the night. According to him, there were 13 other witnesses to this. And he also wrote that later that morning, the sailor who first reported seeing the Dutchman fell from the mast and was, quote, smashed.

to atoms The curse. Sadly, there aren't many super modern sightings of the Dutchman. A lot of people attribute this to the opening of the Suez Canal

because once that opened, people didn't really need to sail around the Cape of Good Hope as much anymore. And those are the waters that the Dutchman was most frequently seen in. So not a whole lot of modern sightings. That's not to say they don't exist. They're not just like very talked about online.

Kathryn (23:19)

Because once that opened, people didn't really need to sail around the Cape of Good Hope as much anymore. And those are the waters that the Dutchman was most frequently seen in. not a whole lot of modern sightings. That's not to say they don't exist. They're not just like Barry talked about online.

Gina (23:33)

So what the fuck? Was the king lying? Is the Dutchman real? What is going on? It definitely could be real, but lots of scientists and historians speculate that it could be explained in other ways. And the most widely accepted explanation is that it's something called

Fata Morgana. I think it's Fata. It might be Fata,

Kathryn (23:55)

don't think I've heard of this but based way I understand words I think it's FATA.

Gina (23:56)

But based way I understand words, I think it's fata.

Fata. Fata morgana.

Kathryn (24:01)

Flusha, Flusha Marcona.

Gina (24:03)

Fata Morgana. That, back to the beginning, ⁓ so Fata Morgana, we think, comes from Morgan Le Fay. OK. Yeah. Famous, supposed witch and shape-shifter. ⁓ So, Fata Morgana is an optical illusion. And the way that it works is very science-y. My brain kind of fell out of my ears when I was trying to learn about it. I'll try to break it down, but we just kind of have to accept that this is a thing that exists. And knows? sometimes the air

Kathryn (24:03)

Okay, yeah Yes, yes,

the air

near the surface of like the water or the ground or whatever gets cold, but the air sitting on top is warm. You see it a lot like after a storm or really early in the morning. And when that happens, light basically just gets confused and it starts letting the air bend it into different shapes because it doesn't know where to go. And that can make things appear elongated or distorted.

Gina (24:30)

near the surface of the water or the ground or whatever gets cold, but the air sitting on top is warm. You see it a lot after a storm or really early in the morning. And when that happens, light basically just gets confused. And it starts letting the air bend it into different shapes because it doesn't know where to go. And that can make things appear elongated or distorted.

Kathryn (24:58)

or like an object is floating when it's not. Okay, so this is the thing I wanted to talk to you about, but I didn't know the name. I did not know that this is what it was called. I learned about this near Lake Superior is, I'm gonna butcher this, but I'm just gonna pretend I know what I'm talking about. But this is real. There's like a lighthouse somewhere.

Gina (24:58)

or like an object is floating when it's not.

This is the thing I wanted to talk to you about. But I didn't know the name. I did not know that this is what it was called. I learned about this up near Lake Superior because is

I'm gonna butcher this, but I'm just gonna pretend I know what I'm talking about. But this is real. There's like a lighthouse somewhere

that you can technically somewhere.

Kathryn (25:25)

that you can technically see somewhere,

but it just looks like a weird cloud or like smudge on the surface of the water. Lake Superior is spooky as hell. We'll talk about it sometime. But I think it's that same phenomenon because it doesn't look like it's technically too far. Like you can't, is that what, okay. Yeah, so it's like you technically cannot see this lighthouse, but.

Gina (25:31)

but it just looks like a weird cloud or like smudge. Okay. On the surface of the water. Superior is spooky as hell. We'll talk about it sometime. But I think it's that same phenomenon because it doesn't look like it's technically too far. Yes. Yeah. that's, yeah. Yeah. So it's like, you technically cannot see this lighthouse, but

it's.

Kathryn (25:55)

It's

kind of a combination of like, obviously everything you just said, but it's like, the way it was explained to me in regards to this lighthouse was like, your brain knows something is there, but like the combination of what your eyes are doing and what the light is supposed to do, they don't mesh. So it creates this thing that you're like, that you think you're supposed to be seeing, but it's not actually what is there.

Gina (26:18)

But it's not actually what is there. Yeah.

I didn't, okay, so I didn't know that that was the name of it. just, I wanted to bring this up when I saw you were doing Flying Dutchman because I figured that was probably gonna be part of it. But I'm like, I don't know how to explain it even. Well that's the, it's so hard to fucking explain like how it actually works. Like it just sounds like magic. And I'm like, okay, how the fuck am I supposed to trust anything I'm actually Right? What do you mean my eyes don't know what the light is doing?

Kathryn (26:21)

I didn't, okay, so I didn't know that that was the name of it. just, wanted to bring this up when I saw you were doing Flying Dutchman because I figured that was probably gonna be part of it, but I'm like, I don't know how to explain any of it. It's so hard to explain. Yeah, and I'm like, okay, how the fuck am I supposed to trust anything I'm actually seeing? What do you mean my eyes don't know what the light is doing and

the light is confused? What does that mean?

Gina (26:44)

Is confused? What does that mean? blows my mind about the maritime

part of this. so a lot of the Flying Dutchman spottings, we think that it might have been like, you're on a boat, middle of the ocean. You can see the horizon. The air is doing the weird fucking thing. There is a ship past the horizon that you cannot see. But because Fata Morgana is a thing, that ship

Kathryn (26:49)

Yeah, because like yeah lot of the flying Dutchman spottings we think that it might have been like, okay You're on a boat middle of the ocean. You can see the horizon the air is doing the weird fucking thing There is a ship past the horizon that you cannot see but because Fata Morgana is a thing that ship

basically gets reflected or refracted or whatever the word is like projected Yeah, something that you can see like you can't see it, but you can stuff

Gina (27:08)

basically gets reflected or refracted or whatever the word is, like projected into something that you can see. You can't see it, but you can. Yes. And that's why when you get closer,

it disappears because the temperature between the layers of air changes. And so it seems like it just goes into thin air. But in reality, it's just a ship that's too far away for you to see.

Kathryn (27:23)

It's just a ship that's too far away for you to see.

That's so fucked up. Yeah, it's so wild That makes sense that's weird

Gina (27:28)

Wild right right yeah, so that's part of it, but what about the glowing That could be Fata Morgana as well because it's the refracted light we think of a sunrise or a sunset Pulling from a different part of the earth yeah

Right? It's kind of magical. That's weird. It's kind of nice, though, to think that a sunrise could be sent to you even when it's not your

time to see it yet. That's kind of nice. That's cute. Not like in the context of a ghost ship of doom, but. a little scary when it comes to a cursed ship, but And yes, so the ship disappearing is when those layers of air and their temperatures go back to normal. And fun fact, this is also used to explain a lot of UFO sightings.

Kathryn (27:55)

I was gonna say it's a little scary when it comes to a cursed ship, And yes, so the ship disappearing is when those layers of air and their temperatures go back to normal. And fun fact, this is also used to explain a lot of UFO

Oh, interesting. People will see shit glowing in the sky and think that it's a UFO, but it's actually just something further out.

Gina (28:11)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, like people will see shit glowing in the sky and think that it's a UFO, but it's actually just something further out

being distorted. And it even happens on things bigger than a ship or a UFO too. Like throughout history, there have been times when people will be sailing around and they think they've discovered a quote new island or a new landmass. And they're actually discovering an island that already exists. It's just really fucking far away. And then it fades in front of them.

Kathryn (28:18)

⁓ I would not have thought of that. ⁓

Gina (28:37)

Which I'm kind of curious, is this at all connected to like the legend of Atlantis?

Kathryn (28:45)

Mostly because I don't fully understand the legend of Atlantis. I want you to too, because I'm fascinated by it and also don't understand it at all.

Gina (28:48)

I wanna do an episode on Atlantis. I want you to too, because. I'm fascinated by that. I'm fascinated by it, and also don't understand it at all.

Kathryn (28:57)

this what a mirage is? Like in the desert? Okay. It's the same vibe. Yeah. Okay. Interesting.

Gina (28:57)

this what a mirage is? That's a great question. In my head, they're the same thing. I don't know if they actually are scientifically, but like similar. Like you're seeing something that's not actually. don't know. I'm

not sure. And sailors in particular are super susceptible to this kind of thing because they work.

Kathryn (29:11)

Alright.

Gina (29:18)

super long hours, the horizon and weather conditions mean that those layers of air get fucked up all the time. So seeing the Dutchman wasn't like a one-off thing that you would hear about every now and again. It was like there were plenty of people who claimed to have seen it, and often it would be cooperated by their shipmates who saw the same thing.

even with a possible scientific explanation for it, the legend of the Dutchman is still very much going strong. In part, because sailors are superstitious as fuck. And that has a really big role in the bad omen part of the story. A lot of people think that after a sailor sees the Dutchman, quote, sees the Dutchman, they'll just be looking for like,

Kathryn (29:38)

They'll just be looking for any

Gina (30:02)

any bad thing that happens and then blame it on the Dutchman. Like we've talked about this a few times now, which reinforces the superstition, which to be completely honest, I do think is a huge part of just sailing culture. The Flying Dutchman, it's not just a sailor ghost story. It is like the sailor ghost story. And it's really rooted in that fear, that superstition.

Kathryn (30:02)

bad thing that happens and then blame it on the Dutchman. Like we've talked about this a few weeks now. reinforces the which to be completely honest, I do think is a huge part of just sailing culture. The Flying Dutchman, it's not just a sailor ghost story. It's like the sailor ghost story. And it's really rooted in that fear, that superstition.

Gina (30:24)

And I want to talk about sailor superstitions a little bit because I think they're really interesting. There's some really cool ones out there.

Kathryn (30:25)

I want to talk about sailor superstitions. Okay. Because I think they're really interesting. There's really cool ones out there. And

Gina (30:31)

And I do, I think it really helps illustrate the world that someone might be operating in when they see the Dutchman. So you have things like losing a hat on board means that a trip will be really long or that bringing a banana onto a boat is bad luck. And actually I reached out to my dad

Kathryn (30:31)

I do, I think it really helps illustrate the world that someone might be operating in when they see the Dutchman. So you have things like losing a hat on board means that a trip will be really long or that bringing a banana onto a boat is bad luck. What? And I actually, I reached out to my dad.

Gina (30:51)

who was in the Navy for decades to ask him about some more like modern sailing traditions and superstitions and rituals.

Kathryn (30:51)

Yeah Okay

Gina (30:59)

And he gave me quite a few. So for example, it was considered bad luck to sleep while the ship was traveling through shallow or narrow waters. And ritual wise, he also mentioned the tradition of giving a silver dollar to the first enlisted person to salute you. That's like a very big thing. he also told me about

Kathryn (31:04)

while the ship was traveling through shallow or narrow waters. And ritual-wise, he also mentioned the tradition of giving a silver dollar to the first enlisted person to salute you. That's like a very big thing. Oh, OK. He also told me about.

Gina (31:18)

a ritual that they still honor today that dates back centuries. it's the line crossing ceremony.

Kathryn (31:18)

a ritual that they still honor today that dates back centuries. And it's the line crossing ceremony,

happens the first time a sailor crosses the

Gina (31:26)

happens the first time a sailor crosses the equator.

Kathryn (31:29)

regardless, rituals and superstition are key pieces of life on the

Gina (31:29)

But regardless, rituals and superstition are key pieces of life on the water.

So it's not like the Flying Dutchman was a really big deal decades or centuries ago and then science just swung in with the answer and we're all fine and happy and cool now. It's always been and probably always will be a just in case thing. Just in case Fata Morgana isn't the explanation, I don't wanna be damned for all of eternity, which is understandable.

Kathryn (31:35)

So it's not like the Flying Dutchman was a really big deal decades or centuries ago and then science just swung in with the answer and we're all fine and happy and cool now. It's always been and probably always will be a just in case thing. Just in case Fata Morgana isn't the explanation, I don't want to be damned for all of eternity, which is understandable.

Yeah. not going to lie to you. It took me pretty much my entire.

Gina (31:56)

So to me, the whole question of why is the Flying Dutchman, like why do we still believe in this, it's kind of not even a question, because of fucking course we still believe in it, because what if? You know what I mean?

It took

Kathryn (32:11)

childhood to realize the Flying Dutchman wasn't like objectively true. Honestly just thought it was something we all knew we had to like be careful of and I had nothing to do with the ocean whatsoever. I'm from central Illinois and I was like I was very aware of the Flying Dutchman. I also have to say can't believe we made it through an entire Flying Dutchman episode without SpongeBob being brought up a single fucking time. I'm very proud of that.

Gina (32:22)

The in the and the Flying Dutchman

I believe we made it through an entire Flying Dutchman episode without SpongeBob. I know, I know. I was trying, I really tried to

find a way to weave it into the story in a way that wouldn't tangent us.

Kathryn (32:41)

to weave it into the story in a way that wouldn't tangent us?

Don't worry, I'm here to tangent us. Yeah, I'm very proud of you for not bringing it up a single time because that's how I like learned about The Flying Dutchman. That was my education. Yeah. Yeah, like think I had like tangentially heard of it or whatever just because I love like mermaid stories and stuff. So I read a lot of like read like I'm like a scholarly child.

Gina (32:46)

Well now we're at the end, so we can talk about it as much as we want.

Same, I think that's how a lot of people our age learned about the Flying Dutchman.

Kathryn (33:09)

But you know what I mean, like I heard a lot of like ocean pirate fairy tale type stories, so I'm sure I heard of ghost ships and stuff. But SpongeBob was definitely the first named one.

Gina (33:10)

I always think

the episode where they have pie bombs

Because I'm pretty sure that was a Flying Dutchman episode. I think it might have been the first Flying Dutchman episode. I don't remember any of them specifically. just remember the way he looked. David, yeah, the pirate, yeah, the green pirate guy. Well, that was fascinating. I'm happy I know the name of that, what is it, Fata Morgana? Fata Morgana, yeah. I'm happy I know the name now, because that's something I talk about with people as a fun fact.

Kathryn (33:24)

I don't remember that one.

Okay, I don't remember any of them specifically. just the way he looked. He was very angular. Yeah. Well that was fascinating. I'm happy I know the name of that... What is it? Fanta? Fata Morgana? Yeah, I'm happy I know the name now because that's something I talk about with people as like a fun fact

whenever I talk about Lake Superior specifically. That is...

Gina (33:51)

Whenever I talk about Lake Superior that is

a story I have to half tell because I don't ever remember what that is. It's so interesting. And I don't think I specifically verbalized this connection when I was talking about Morgan Le Fay. But she was known to be a shape shifter, which we think is part of the reason why this was called Fata Morgana, because it changes shape and it appears to be something that it's not. Which I appreciate that so much that scientists were like Morgan Le Fay.

Kathryn (33:55)

story I have to like half tell because I don't ever remember what that is. Yeah, I love that.

It's wild how much like

Gina (34:19)

She needs to be referenced. How much

scientific names for things are based on legends? Mm-hmm Like yeah, like planets Yeah I love that. Yeah That would be a great mini scoop. Yeah, maybe if you join us on patreon, you'll hear it

Kathryn (34:22)

the scientific names for things are based on legends. We should do an episode on that, like a mini soda or something like that, because like planets, those are all based off of gods and goddesses. Like these are scientific balls of gas and rock and they're named after like the goddess of love. What? Say more, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Yeah,

maybe you will.

Gina (34:50)

But

Kathryn (34:51)

Anyway, that was awesome. I don't know any specifics about Flying Dutchman, but now I do. So thank you very much. Maybe never going on a boat with you. Not after that statement, what the fuck? ⁓

Gina (34:51)

anyway, that's all I've got on the Flying Dutchman. was awesome. I don't know any specifics about Flying Dutchman, but I know I Well, maybe we'll see it someday, if ever on a boat together. Maybe. Never going on a boat with you. Then we'll have two cursed boats sailing the water. It'll be Flying Dutchman and then us on a little paddle boat. Getting the fuck out of there. That's cool. Do you have something for me? I sure do.

Kathryn (35:12)

getting the fuck out of there. Excellent. I sure do.

So we have another story from our friends at Chillers and Thrillers. This one is called The Man on the Trail, and it was submitted by user.

Gina (35:17)

So we have another story from our friends at Chillers and Thrillers. This one is called The Man on the Trail and it was submitted by user

Kathryn (35:26)

Anakowinosis? Anakowinosis? All one word? So sorry. Okay, it says, my wife and I are avid backpackers and we try to put down at least one 20 to 30 mile weekend trip every month with our ultra light gear. Yes. ⁓

Gina (35:26)

Anakowinosis? Anakowinosis? Okay. All one word? So sorry. Okay. It says.

My wife and I are avid backpackers and we try to put down at least one 20 to 30 mile weekend trip every month with our ultra light field. Wow, a month? Damn.

We're fairly experienced at this point and have had numerous semi-dangerous encounters with wildlife and other wilderness hazards. We don't get shipped too easy. We're hiking a ridgeline trail in the late afternoon, planning to take a turn and head down into a drainage to camp near water before it gets dark.

Kathryn (35:46)

We're fairly experienced at this point and have had numerous semi-dangerous encounters with wildlife and other wilderness hazards. We don't get shook too easy. We're hiking a ridgeline trail in the late afternoon, planning to take a turn and head down into a drainage to camp near water before it gets dark. We've

Gina (36:04)

We've put down 10 plus miles that day and we're fairly beat, looking forward to setting up camp and getting dinner going. We see a guy coming up the trail

Kathryn (36:04)

put down 10 plus miles that day and we're fairly beat, looking forward to setting up camp and getting dinner going. We see a guy coming up the trail.

Gina (36:13)

toward us as we turn onto the drainage trail. He's wearing worn out clothes. Up close, he's a white guy, kind of indeterminate age, somewhere between late 30s and late 40s. We acknowledge each other, strike up a little conversation on the trail.

Kathryn (36:13)

first thing I notice is his accent. It's clearly American, but it's not the accent of an area we're in. And it's kind of, well, old timey. There's kind of music or lilt to it.

Gina (36:30)

first thing I notice is his accent. It's clearly American, but it's not the accent of an area we're in. And it's kind of, well, old-timey. There's kind of music or lilt to it.

No, it's not a drawl. It's vaguely familiar, like something I've heard but can't quite recall.

Kathryn (36:42)

Note, it's not a drawl. It's vaguely familiar, like something I've heard but can't quite recall.

my wife is chatting with him while I puzzle his accent out, and then I notice he's covered with tattoos. Weird ones, too. I have ink, so I'm not one to judge someone just for having a tattoo. Good for you. Judgment-free zone on the trails. But I've never seen anything like these tattoos before.

Gina (37:05)

But I've never seen anything like these tattoos before.

Kathryn (37:08)

They're not standard, quote, hard-ass tattoos or pictures. It's almost like writing, but not in any alphabet I've ever seen. And arranged in a way that makes me think

Gina (37:08)

They're not standard quote hard ass tattoos or pictures. It's almost like writing, but not in any alphabet I've ever seen. And arranged in a way that makes me

Kathryn (37:17)

they're also a picture if seen in full, like a Magic Eye game made up of some indecipherable script and inked on a man's skin. I'm now getting an

Gina (37:17)

are also a picture I've seen in full. Like a Magic Eye game made up of some indecipherable script inked on a man's skin. I'm now getting an

Kathryn (37:27)

itchy, something is very wrong here feeling from this guy when I hear him say to my wife, there's a great campsite down by the stream. Lots of campers have used it. I realized that we're an hour from sundown and at least 10 miles from anything. And this guy has nothing with him, not a backpack, not a water

Gina (37:27)

itchy, something is very wrong here feeling from this guy when I hear him say to my wife, there's a great campsite down by the stream. Lots of campers have used it. I realize that we're an hour from sundown and at least 10 miles from anything and this guy has nothing with him. Not a backpack, not a water

No warm layer. It's autumn and we're rather high up in elevation. Just the clothes on his back,

Kathryn (37:46)

bottle, no warm layer. It's autumn and we're rather high up in elevation, just the clothes on his back.

Gina (37:53)

none of which have anything distinguishing about them. No logos or visible brands of any kind and quite worn down.

Kathryn (37:53)

none of which have anything distinguishing about them, no logos or visible brands of any kind and quite worn down.

He's about to get overnighted on the trail without any gear of any kind and only the one campsite within six miles of where we're standing. I hear my wife say, that's where we're going to camp, thanks for the suggestion, and he smiles at us. His teeth are pointed.

Gina (38:02)

He's about to get overnighted on the trail without any gear of any kind and only the one campsite within six miles of where we're standing. I hear my wife say, that's where we're going to camp. Thanks for the suggestion. And he smiles at us. His teeth are pointed. Okay, but you know what?

That's a body mod. You can get, that's fine. It sure is. It sure is. It says, I assume they were filed.

Kathryn (38:22)

It sure is. It sure is. It says, I assume they were filed

and curved inward toward the back of his mouth. Yeah, that's making my mouth hurt. I don't mean they were just his incisors. I mean his front teeth on both top and bottom. I nod my agreement and say, enjoy the rest of your hike. And then we continue on.

Gina (38:28)

and curved inward toward the back of his mouth. That doesn't sound like a body modification. Yeah, that's making my mouth hurt. ⁓ I don't mean they were just his incisors. I mean his front teeth on both top and bottom. I nod my agreement and say, enjoy the rest of your hike. And then we continue on.

In another mile or two we get down to the stream and the campsite is lovely. Beautiful green grass about three inches high, flat, dry, and easy water access. However, there's no sign that anyone has camped here in a very long time. As we're looking it over, we find there are tons of stakes in the ground.

Kathryn (38:47)

In another mile or two, we get down to the stream and the campsite is lovely. Beautiful green grass about three inches high, flat, dry and easy water access. However, there's no sign that anyone has camped here in a very long time. As we're looking it over, we find there are tons of stakes in the ground.

usually find a stake or two at high traffic campsites just because people forget them when they're packing up camp in the morning. We found more than 10 of wildly different ages and designs, some old school and rusty, others new and shiny, but none of the grass is bent or broken except where we've stepped in checking this site.

Gina (39:07)

usually find a stake or two at high traffic campsites just because people forget them when they're packing up camp in the morning.

We found more than 10 of wildly different ages and designs, some old school and rusty, others new and shiny, but none of the grass is bent or broken except where we've stepped in checking this site.

Wordlessly, we both shouldered our packs and hiked another, thankfully flat and easy, six or seven miles to the next site.

Kathryn (39:28)

Wordlessly, we both shouldered our packs and hiked another, thankfully flat and easy, six or seven miles to the next site.

I'm neither spiritual nor superstitious, and I've never had any other experience that filled me with such a sense of unexplainable fear or impending doom the way this one did. I know while camping.

Gina (39:36)

I'm neither spiritual nor superstitious and I've never had any other experience that filled me with such a sense of unexplainable fear or impending doom the way this one did. Dude. know. While camping.

That's... It's like a fucking go camping! Similar vibes to Dutchman though, honestly. Yes, yes. Like, middle of summer where there is not help around you, you're by, like, whatever you've got is what you've got. That's it. And if you're fucked, you're fucked. There's nothing you can do.

Kathryn (39:52)

This is why I don't fucking go camping! Yes,

Yeah. ⁓

Gina (40:06)

And pointy teeth, like it's a cool body modification. It does scare the shit out of me. And like

my teeth are sensitive. Mine too. My mouth is watering. Yeah, no. I love it for all of you that have shaved teeth. That's so great. I'm glad that the interaction seemed positive, though. Like it didn't seem like he was threatening. No, because I think he was trying to lure them.

Kathryn (40:14)

Mine too. I know, my mouth is watering. We gotta move on. I don't do teeth. Sorry. I love it for all of you that have shaved teeth. That's so great. But I'm glad that the interaction seemed positive though. Like I didn't see that he was threatening. No, because I think he was trying to lure them.

Gina (40:28)

That's a good point. I would fall for it. Oh my God. Jesus. Because he was trying to get them to go to that campsite where like people weird shit has happened.

Kathryn (40:28)

Oh, that's a point. You would fall for it. This is why I don't go camping. No, because he was trying to get them to go to that campsite where like people, weird shit has happened.

Gina (40:41)

I was like, what a helpful guy. Oh my God, he's so nice. Great. you know what? It's good to know that I'm like this. You know what I mean? Because then I can work on it. If I do, I don't know. That only counts if there's someone who works

Kathryn (40:42)

You're like, wow, he's so nice. What do your tattoos say?

That only counts if you're someone who works

on it. Maybe I will be someday. Someday. Listen, cheers. All right. That's all we have for you today. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you have a story that you would like to share with us, please send it to iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com And just as a reminder, we are still sending out stickers for anyone who leaves us a review wherever you listen. And yeah, until next time, little spoons keep it cool.

Gina (40:54)

Maybe I will be someday. I am almost 30. Cheers. you have a story that you would like to share with us, please send it to icecreamuscremepod at gmail.com. just as a reminder, we are still sending out stickers for anyone who leaves us a review wherever you And yeah, until next time, little spoons, keep it cool.

Keep it creepy.

Kathryn (41:19)

the creepy

excellent you're welcome ⁓ nice

Gina (41:24)

first live show. You're welcome.

HauntingsFolklore

I Scream You Scream

Ep. 58: The Flying Dutchman

Ep 57: The Stanley Hotel