Ep 57: The Stanley Hotel

Note: Our transcription software got a little confused during this episode. You might see some duplicated sections or instances where Kathryn and Gina appear to say the same thing.

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Gina (00:11)

What's up? I don't know how to do this. You gotta start. Here's what I think our intro is. Welcome to I Scream You Scream. So far so good. We are your weekly scoop the most chilling

Kathryn (00:11)

I don't know how to do this. You gotta start.

Welcome to Ice Cream You Scream. So far so good. We are your weekly most chilling

histories, mysteries, and paranormal perplexities. We are. I'm Gina, and we'll say I'm I'm Kathryn You're Kathryn. We're in person. We are, which is why we're so scared and weird. It's really weird.

Gina (00:28)

histories, mysteries, and paranormal perplexities. I'm Gina. I almost said I'm Kathryn. I'm Kathryn. You're Kathryn. And today we're in person. We are, which is why we're so scared and weird. This feels, it feels really weird.

oh yeah. This is December. We're talking about ghosts and we have cocktails to celebrate the end of the year. So cheers. Happy winter. What are we drinking?

Kathryn (00:44)

It is. We are. We do! Cheers! Happy winter everyone.

good old whiskey and ginger ale as we should and as we always will.

Gina (00:57)

like we did in the olden days.

got some nice cat hair on the mics.

Kathryn (01:03)

Yep, plenty of cat hair all over the place. We'll

always be cat hair long long long after we ourselves are ghosts.

Gina (01:08)

And

I do. I want to do the honors. huge shout out to famous member of the TWATS Kim! Kim is a Patreon supporter. you so much. Thank you,

Kathryn (01:12)

we have a very special shout out for someone who joined our Patreon. Do you want to do the honors? Do you want me to? Yes. Kim! Thank you so much. We're

obsessed.

Gina (01:29)

We're so excited. Thank you for joining us. Hooray.

Kathryn (01:30)

Thank you for joining us on Patreon.

That made our day when we saw you come through. So we're very happy that you chose to join us. Yes. ⁓

Gina (01:34)

very happy that you chose to join us. Genuinely, yes, totally made our day.

As a reminder, if you want to support us on Patreon, it exists, you're more than welcome to do so. Link is and will always be in the show notes. But until then, grab a spoon and let's dig the fuck in.

Kathryn (01:52)

cheers, I don't know what to even I don't know what to talk about because I'm used to being so above everyone because I record

Gina (01:53)

Cheers again!

I'm used to being so above everyone because I record for

Kathryn (02:01)

for many reasons, but specifically when we record

Gina (02:01)

many reasons. Oh you mean- But specifically- You mean physically above.

Kathryn (02:06)

because I my setup is right in front of my office window which is on the second floor so I'm like gazing upon the neighborhood while I record it and now we're you're watching we're in an Airbnb right now ⁓ It's very cool

Gina (02:16)

you're watching, we're in an Airbnb right now. Yes. It's very cool.

Kathryn (02:21)

Should we tell them that my husband knows the person who owns this place? Yeah, know

Gina (02:21)

Should we tell them that my husband knows the person who owns this Oh, yeah. So Kathryn and Phil dropped us off at the Airbnb last night. And we found out that it's like a local music guy that owns this place. And Tom brought it up. And Phil was like, oh, yeah, I know that guy.

Kathryn (02:35)

that guy. Mr. Man, who used to work at a record store and knows literally everyone. They're not like friends. They don't know each other personally, but.

Gina (02:40)

Mm-hmm. not like friends. Yeah. They don't know each other personally, but...

Kathryn (02:46)

thanks for coming along with us on this journey. We're like trying to remember

Gina (02:46)

Anyway! Thanks for coming along with us on this journey. We're trying to remember...

Kathryn (02:52)

what it's like to see each other in person. I don't know if you notice I keep like...

Gina (02:52)

like to see each other person. I don't know if you know if those people like

my eye contact with you is like limited. Say we were sitting at dinner last night and I kept looking at you and being like don't look at her don't look at her. Just focus on the cheese. You're so beautiful. You're so three-dimensional I can't get over it. I love the non-pixelated version of your It's easy to talk to you when there's not a delay. Okay right I am curious how this

Kathryn (02:56)

My eye contact with you is like limited. like, I know I was like, my God, just focus on the cheese. You're so beautiful. I love the non pixelated version of your face. Okay, right. I am curious how this

recording is going to sound without

Gina (03:23)

Same.

Kathryn (03:24)

without the delay. Yes. We don't have to talk about what happens after that. What are you doing? And then nothing. Not a single thing to worry about. Anyway, should we jump in? Should we just get to it

Gina (03:25)

Yeah, me too. So we'll see. We'll see how this goes. We're together for a week. And then we have to talk about it. It doesn't matter. Sorry. I felt the words coming out of my mouth. Not a single thing. Anyway, anywho, should we jump in? Yeah,

Kathryn (03:46)

So now I just read this to you. Yeah.

Gina (03:46)

So now I just read this to you? Yeah. All

Kathryn (03:51)

Alright, so today... Today we're headed deep.

Gina (03:52)

So today... Today we're headed deep.

This is why I love visiting you.

Kathryn (04:05)

We're heading deep into the rocky mountains where the air is crisp, the cocoa is warm, and the spirits are wide awake, ready to haunt you. Good, right? was a good intro. Thank you. Thank you. my god, yes, okay. So, we're talking about the infamous Stanley Hotel, one of America's most famous haunted hotspots.

Gina (04:07)

That really good I feel like I feel like I'm there Thank you. my god. Yes, okay. So, we're talking about the infamous Stanley Hotel, one of America's most famous haunted

Kathryn (04:31)

so the hotel was built by a man named Freeland Oscar Stanley. Immediately pause. So he was commonly referred to as F.O. Stanley, but I'll be calling him Freeland. Dude, right? I know. That's why I'm going to be calling him Freeland because otherwise I'll just be saying like F.O. the whole time, which is weird and adorable. So.

Gina (04:35)

Ten out of ten. Immediately pause. Immediately, yes.

Fuck off Stanley I just got here

Kathryn (04:56)

Oh

my god, please don't fuck off. so Freeland and his twin brother Francis were born on June 1st, 1849 in Kingfield, Maine. They were not born into a wealthy family, but their parents really valued education of like any kind, whether that was like formal schooling or just kind of applied learning out.

Gina (05:02)

Francis were born on June 1st, 1849 in Catonfield, Maine. They were not born into a wealthy family, but their parents really valued education of like any kind, whether that was like formal schooling or just kind of applied learning out.

Kathryn (05:20)

in the world, they really cared about their children understanding the value of science and having an appreciation for arts with an emphasis on things like poetry and music. So all of their children were encouraged to basically just learn as much as possible, which I thought was kind of cool because like, yeah, they didn't, I don't know how many children they had, but it seemed like a big family probably late 1800s. But yeah, they really.

Gina (05:20)

in the world. They really cared about their children understanding the value of like science and having an appreciation for arts with an emphasis on things like poetry and music. So all of their children were encouraged to basically just learn as much as possible. ⁓

which I thought was kind of cool. I love that. Yeah, they didn't. I don't know how many children they had, but it seemed like a big family probably late 1800s. ⁓ But yeah, they really

cared about just being as smart as possible. weren't like know-it-alls at all. But like well rounded. They wanted them to be like having experienced life. Yeah. OK.

Kathryn (05:49)

cared about just being as, I don't want say as smart as possible, they weren't like know-it-alls, but they, yeah, they wanted them to be, like have an experienced life, basically, yeah.

So at the age of nine Freeland and Francis those are the twins they started their first business together So what they would do is they would tap maple trees and refine it to make maple sugar And then they sold it to their neighbors Isn't that adorable? I love that yes literally yes, yes

Gina (06:00)

So at the age of nine, Freeland and Francis, those are the twins, they started their first business together. So what they would do is they would tap maple trees and refine it to make maple sugar. And then they sold it to their neighbors. That's a fucking moneymaker. It's not adorable. Literally money growing on trees. Literally. Nice. Yes.

Kathryn (06:21)

So anyway, they start hustling at a young age and they're making all these different businesses like as they grow up,

Gina (06:21)

So anyway, they start hustling at a young age and they're making all these different businesses like as they grow up, just.

Kathryn (06:27)

just like that kid that would like do you did that shit. I was just gonna you know what example I was gonna give. Yes. Yes. Like, you know, I'll do XYZ for a dime or whatever was a reasonable amount of money back then. So they grew up doing this, saved their wages and eventually at the age of 20, they both attend college. After graduation, Freelan

Gina (06:28)

like that kid that would like do, you did that shit. I did do that shit. You know what example I was gonna I did do that shit, yep. Yes, like, you know, I'll do XYZ for a dime or whatever was around.

So they grew up doing this, saved their wages, and eventually at the age of 20, they both attended college. After graduation, Freeland became

Kathryn (06:50)

became the headmaster of the high school in Mechanic Falls, Maine. And this is where he met and fell madly in love with teacher and piano aficionado, the lovely Flora Jane Tyleston. Way better name than Fuck Off Stan. Oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah. So Flora and Fuck Off fall in

Gina (06:51)

the headmaster of the high school in Mechanic Falls, Maine, and this is where he met and fell madly in love with teacher and piano aficionado, the lovely Flora Jane Tyleston. Way better name than Fuck Off Stanley. Oh my gosh. Yes, yes. So Flora and Fuck Off all in

Kathryn (07:10)

love. yeah, she was an esteemed pianist who just absolutely loved playing. And because his parents

Gina (07:13)

So yeah, she was an esteemed pianist who just absolutely loved playing and because his parents

Kathryn (07:19)

instilled in him such like a strong love and appreciation for the arts. That was one of the things that he loved so much about her. It was said that she had just such a deep passion for playing music, specifically the piano, and he was just smitten with it and loved hearing her play. I love. I know. I know. fall in love with someone partially because of their talents and their- And their passion, the

Gina (07:19)

instilled in him such like a strong love and appreciation for the arts, that was one of the things that he loved so much about her. It was said that she had just such a deep passion for playing music, specifically the piano, and he was just smitten with it and loved hearing her play. I love that. Like when you fall in love with someone partially because of their talents and like what they're...

Yes. That's so pure.

Kathryn (07:43)

love they have for it. That's so pure.

they were married in 1876 and they never had any children, but they had several nieces and nephews that they kind of viewed as their It was said that they never really felt like they needed to have their own children because they had so many nieces and nephews. And I just want to mention that because that is super.

Gina (07:45)

Yeah.

Kathryn (08:03)

rare for that time. So some people do speculate that it's possible that they couldn't have kids, but either way, the message is just

they didn't have kids, they loved their nieces and nephews, and they just were both very passionate about each of their individual things. She was a musician, he loved inventing shit and starting. They were just a quirky, nice, fun-loving couple, it seems like. Yeah, yeah.

Gina (08:12)

They didn't have kids, they loved their nieces and nephews, and they just were both very passionate about each of their individual things. She was a musician. He loved inventing shit and starting. They were just a quirky, nice, fun-loving couple. I love this so much.

Kathryn (08:31)

And that's when things took a turn for the worst. unfortunately, just a few years after getting married, Freeland

Gina (08:31)

And that's when things took a turn for the worse. God damn it. unfortunately, just a few years after getting married, Freeland

Kathryn (08:40)

was diagnosed with tuberculosis in 1881. would eventually get better. And they continued living their lives until it came back in 1903. This is a journey, stick with me.

Gina (08:40)

shit! Okay.

It came back in 1903. God damn it. This is a journey sticker here. So this

Kathryn (08:58)

this time when he had this resurgence of TB. His doctor prescribed him the thing we all wish doctors still prescribed, and that was fresh, crisp mountain air with a dollop of sunshine and a hearty diet of stews and root vegetables out in the Rocky Mountains.

Gina (08:58)

time when he had this resurgence of TB, his doctor prescribed him the thing we all wish doctors still prescribed, and that was fresh, crisp mountain air with a dollop of sunshine and a hearty diet of stews and root vegetables out in the Rocky Mountains.

Kathryn (09:15)

So the Stanleys make their way out to Estes Park, Colorado, which is where many TB patients went because the climate was perfect for what the doctor had prescribed. It kind of became a little like TB community. The climate was compared to certain mountainous spots in Switzerland. So that's what they were like trying to replicate, basically. Yeah. by the end of that summer, Stanley's Health

Gina (09:15)

So, the Stanleys make their way out to Estes Park, Colorado.

Oh, okay. trying to replicate. the end of that summer, Stanley's health

had improved dramatically. Not only did he feel better physically, but he realized that he felt better both mentally

Kathryn (09:42)

had improved dramatically. And not only did he feel better physically, but he realized that he felt better both mentally

Gina (09:49)

and emotionally as he strongly attributed to the beautiful landscape and ⁓

Kathryn (09:49)

and emotionally as well, he strongly attributed to the beautiful landscape and ⁓ just like the people and community in Estes Park. So he and Flora decided they wanted to return to Colorado. So they would go out there every summer from that point forward. And in doing so,

Gina (09:56)

just like the people and community in Essas Park. he and Flora decided they wanted to return to Colorado. So they would go out there every summer from that point forward. And in doing so,

Kathryn (10:10)

They decided it would be smart to turn their summers into a business venture. And that is when in 1907, Stanley teamed up with a local architect and they began construction on the Stanley Hotel in

Gina (10:10)

they decided it would be smart to turn their summers into a business venture. And that is when in 1907, Stanley teamed up with a local architect and they began construction on the Stanley Hotel. Okay.

Kathryn (10:23)

Estes Park. So it was designed to appeal to like wealthy city people who were looking to like escape the hustle and bustle, like head up into the mountains for some R &R. And

Gina (10:25)

So it was designed to appeal to wealthy city people who were looking to escape the hustle and bustle, head up into the mountains for some R &R. And

to power the hotel, thought this was interesting. Stanley constructed the Fall River Hydro Plant. Forward thinking. I was like, are you familiar? It's my favorite hydro plant. It looks like you knew her. I was just impressed that. Yeah.

Kathryn (10:37)

To power the hotel, thought this was interesting. Stanley constructed the Fall River hydro plant. Oh my god. I thinking. I was like, are you familiar? You looked like you knew her. I was really impressed, wow.

Gina (10:53)

Wow, that's fucking cool. So he

Kathryn (10:53)

Well, fun fact, this is not in my notes, but he is also the person who created Stanley Steamer, the car, the steam engine car.

Gina (11:03)

was inventing shit. well known, very successful. This car, like I said, I think it was in here and I think I took it out for space battle anyways. He created this car that worked well.

Kathryn (11:04)

He was an inventor, yes. He was definitely very well known, very successful. This car, like I said, I think it was in here and I think I took it out for Space Bell Hotel anyway since it's on topic. He created this car that worked well

in the mountains to basically bus people up to the hotel. know what I mean? So was easier to get people there.

Gina (11:21)

in the mountains to basically bus people up to yeah you know what i mean so it's easier to get people there damn but

Kathryn (11:31)

But he did, so he, yeah, they constructed the hydro plant. And that was how the town got electricity. So this was the first time Estes Park had electricity.

Gina (11:31)

he did so he yeah they constructed the hydro plant and that was how the town got electricity so this was the first time ss park had electricity

Upon opening, the hotel had a fully electric kitchen and steam laundry, a hydraulic elevator, electric lights and telephones, and it had 48 guest rooms. And each room, there was like two rooms to a bathroom. Okay, got it. So yeah.

Kathryn (11:42)

Upon opening, the hotel had a fully electric kitchen and steam laundry, a hydraulic elevator, electric lights and telephones, and it had 48 guest rooms. And each room, there was like two rooms to a bathroom, basically. So yeah.

In addition to opening the hotel, I love this part.

Gina (12:00)

addition to opening the hotel, I love this part.

Kathryn (12:03)

Freeland is also known for his role in the creation of Rocky Mountain National Park. And he was president of the Protective and Improvement Association. And he wanted a way to kind of, this is a paraphrase based on the things I was reading, but this is what I was gathering. He kind of wanted to like counteract the,

Gina (12:03)

⁓ And he was president of the protective and improvement association and he wanted a way to kind of This is a paraphrase based on the things I was reading but this is what I was gathering he kind of wanted to like counteract the

Effect that bringing so many people out into nature was having

Kathryn (12:25)

Effect that bringing so many people out into nature was having

he wanted to find a way to basically keep the surrounding nature thriving, the fact that so many people were coming in. So in 1907, he helped to open a fish hatchery in the area. And he also introduced a herd of elk into Yellowstone a few years later in 1913.

Gina (12:29)

So he wanted to find a

Kathryn (12:50)

the descendants of which still roam the Estes Valley today over 100 years later. Yes, so he definitely cared. That was the thing. He cared about not just making money from tourism. was like he wanted people to experience the thing that helped cure his TB, which was the land and nature and blah, blah, blah. All that bullshit, which we love and support here at I Scream You Scream.

Gina (12:54)

He sounds like a really good guy.

not just making money from tourism, was like he wanted people to experience the thing that helped cure his TB. know, which was like the land and nature and blah blah blah. All that shit. All that bullshit. Which we love and support. Yes.

Potting of that.

Kathryn (13:19)

hot at gmail.com. Let us know if you support nature.

So even though Freeland spent a huge amount of money and effort and put a ton of care and love into the hotel, it did have its setbacks.

Gina (13:27)

Even though Freeland spent a huge amount of money and effort and put ton of care and love into the hotel, it did have its setbacks.

One night in June of 1911, it is said that a storm knocked out the electricity, so they, at the hotel, they were relying on back out.

Kathryn (13:34)

One night in June of 1911, it is said that a storm knocked out the electricity. So they at the hotel, they were relying on backup.

were relying on backup gas lamps for light. And there was a gas leak that was discovered in room 217 when an employee went in to light the lamp and it was.

Gina (13:44)

They were relying on backup gas lamps for light. And there was a gas leak that was discovered in room 217 when an employee went in to light the lamp and it

Kathryn (13:56)

it resulted in a severe gas explosion. So what's interesting to me is several news play. I can't, I can't speak. I just can't do it. Okay.

Gina (13:57)

resulted in a severe gas explosion. So what's interesting to me is several news play. I can't speak. I just can't do it. OK. I'm pretty sure it's pronounced news play. So you're fine.

I'm a journal analyst at Newsprablapper.

Kathryn (14:26)

my god. Okay. So what's interesting to me is several newspapers reported that different things happened. So one reported that it took the life of a housekeeper named Elizabeth Lambert.

Gina (14:28)

Okay, so what's interesting to me is several newspapers reported that different things happened. So one reported that it took the life of a housekeeper named Elizabeth Lambert,

but there was no Elizabeth Lambert registered as an employee at the Stanley at the time. And...

Kathryn (14:42)

But there was no Elizabeth Lambert registered as an employee at the Stanley at the time. And

Gina (14:49)

It's also noted that there are no death records indicating that the gas explosion killed anyone. But there are other reports of a woman named Elizabeth Wilson, who may or may not have been a housekeeper, who was thought to have been injured when she was lighting the either candle or lamp or whatever in

Kathryn (14:50)

also noted that there are no death records indicating that the gas explosion killed anyone. But there are other reports of a woman named Elizabeth Wilson, who may or may not have been a housekeeper, who was thought to have been injured when she was lighting the either candle or lamp or whatever.

in Room Tomb 17. Some say that she just got some bad burns. Others say she broke both of her ankles. There's

Gina (15:11)

room 217. Some say that she, you know, just got some bad burns. Others say she broke both of her ankles.

a lot of differing reports that were reported at that time so that it's it's just I don't want to it's suspicious.

Kathryn (15:19)

a lot of differing reports that were reported at that time. it's just, I don't wanna say it's suspicious, some people argue because of the way it was reported and how things didn't match up right away.

Gina (15:29)

But some people argue because of the way it was reported and how things didn't match up right away.

Kathryn (15:36)

some cited as the first quote unquote paranormal experience at the hotel. Whether or not that is true, we do not know. It could have been just bad journalism. That's what I'm thinking. Yeah, it very easily could have just been bad reporting. But it's just one of those things that adds to the mystique of

Gina (15:36)

Some cited as the first quote unquote paranormal experience at the hotel. Whether or not that is true, we do not know. It could have been just mad journalism. That's what I'm thinking. It very easily could have just been bad reporting. But it's just one of those things that adds to the mystique.

Kathryn (15:59)

like, what actually happened? What we do know is someone was

Gina (15:59)

What happened? What we do know is ⁓ someone was

Kathryn (16:05)

lighting a candle or a lamp or whatever it was, they got injured. The most agreed upon story is that it was a housekeeper named Elizabeth Wilson who broke both of her ankles as she like flew in the explosion. And then a few other people were injured as well. But but the details of exactly who what why or how

Gina (16:05)

lighting a candle or a lamp or whatever it was, they got injured. The most agreed upon story is that it was a housekeeper named Elizabeth Wilson who broke both of her ankles as she like flew in the explosion. ⁓ God. And then a few other people were injured as well. But the details of exactly who, what, why or how.

Kathryn (16:29)

aren't super clear. It is generally agreed upon that no one died in the explosion as well.

Gina (16:29)

aren't super clear, it is generally agreed upon that no one died in the explosion as well.

Because was this, I'm picturing like a very remote area. Oh yeah, to this day, it's in the middle of this national park. Okay, so it's not like there were city like news, whatever's. yeah, I think most of the newspapers...

Kathryn (16:35)

So I'm picturing like a very remote area. yeah. It's in the to this day. It's like in the middle of this national park. And yes, like no, no, no people. I think most of the newspapers

that printed it, it was like they had to wait for it to go through the wire and everything like I don't even know if they I'm sure they had a newspaper in this park at the time.

Gina (16:54)

that printed it, it was like they had to wait for it to go through the wire and everything. Yeah, okay. I'm sure they had a newspaper in SS Park at the time.

If they did, it was from that. Okay. It was not, To this day, that's a very, very small mountain town. Okay, yeah.

Kathryn (17:03)

If they did, was like some guy, you know, it was not. Yeah, to this day, that's a very, very small mountain town. Yeah.

So despite this tragedy, they were able to rebuild the park because they destroyed the room like it did need like pretty significant reconstruction. But they did rebuild and the Stanleys genuinely considered this their home away from home. Like I said.

Gina (17:13)

So despite this tragedy, they were able to rebuild the park because it destroyed the room. It did need pretty significant reconstruction. But they did rebuild, and the Stanleys genuinely considered this their home away from home. Like I said,

they spend every summer out there, so it was important to them to pick it back up and make sure that it was still a nice hotel and a place that people wanted to go.

Kathryn (17:29)

they spend every summer out there. they really, was important to them to like pick it back up and make sure that it was still a nice hotel and a place that people wanted to go.

Gina (17:40)

Not only did they love the hotel, but they felt...

Kathryn (17:40)

Not only did they love the hotel, but they felt, not to speak on their behalf, but it seemed very much like they felt a responsibility to the community because they literally put this town on the map before.

Gina (17:45)

Mm. put this town on the map before

the hotel moved in and before they started going there was unincorporated and you know they're the ones that brought electricity they brought commerce like they really are the reason this town became such a destination so they had a soft spot for it they really considered it a home away from home and like I said they spent

Kathryn (17:55)

the hotel moved in and before they started going there, was unincorporated. you know, they're the ones that brought electricity, they brought commerce, like they really are the reason this town became such a destination. So they had a soft spot for it. They really considered it a home away from home. And like I said, they spent

Gina (18:15)

every year there, or I'm sorry, they spent every summer there until Flora's house started to deteriorate and she passed away in 1939.

Kathryn (18:15)

every year there, or I'm sorry, they spent every summer there until Flora's house started to deteriorate and she passed away in 1939.

Gina (18:24)

Oh. Yes. Okay. After her death...

Kathryn (18:25)

Yes. After her death,

Freeland made one last trip out to Estes Park and he stayed at the Stanley one last time before he too passed away the following fall on October 2nd, the day before my birthday, plus many, years. This was in 1940 and it was at the age of 91. So they lived full life. He had tuberculosis twice and lived to 91. So like that's some fresh mountain air for you.

Gina (18:43)

Oh wow, okay. Yeah. Damn,

Yeah, nice.

But many say that the Stanleys loved the hotel so much, they never actually left. Countless guests and staff over the past several decades claim to have seen a man in a tuxedo who is believed to be Freeland. He's often seen observing staff members monitoring people from across halls and rooms, and he often hangs out in like the corner of the lobby just like observing. It's almost like he's like

Kathryn (18:55)

But many say that the Stanleys loved the hotel so much they never actually left. Countless guests and staff over the past several decades claim to have seen a man in a tuxedo who is believed to be Freeland. He's often seen observing staff members monitoring people from across halls and rooms. And he often hangs out in the corner of the lobby just observing. It's almost like he's like,

Gina (19:25)

People say he's got the vibe of checking in on people, making sure they're having a good time, everyone's okay, no one needs anything. This is, it's Hotel Emma. It's reminding me of Hotel Emma. I knew you were gonna say that when I was writing 100%. I was like, this gives Hotel Emma vibes. Totally. Yeah. So it's also said that he likes hanging out near the billiards room because he enjoyed playing pool in life.

Kathryn (19:25)

People say he's got the vibe of checking in on people, making sure they're having a good time, everyone's okay, no one needs anything. I knew you were gonna say that when I was writing my notes. I was like, this gives Hotel Emma vibes, yes, yeah. So it's also said that he likes hanging out near the billiards room because he enjoyed playing pool in life.

But if you're worried that Freeland is a lonely ghost, not.

Gina (19:48)

But if you're worried that Freeland is a lonely ghost, not,

as Flora's spirit has also been spotted and heard numerous times. It is said that people often hear piano music playing in the ballroom.

Kathryn (19:53)

As Flora's spirit has also been spotted and heard numerous times, it is said that people often hear piano music playing in the ballroom. Yep.

Late into the night when there's no one there. And of course, many people believe it to be her playing the piano that was, I don't know if it still is, but for many, many years, the piano that he gifted her when they moved out there was still in there. So I don't know.

Gina (20:09)

I love that.

Kathryn (20:21)

if this was attached to the piano or if it's something that still happens. If you've been there and you've

Gina (20:26)

Woo!

Kathryn (20:27)

heard it, let us know. iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com so in the years following the Stanleys death, it still remained a hotel, business was still good, but then as the years went on, it kind of started to deteriorate a little bit. Whatever entity Freeland had sold it to, whenever he sold it,

Gina (20:33)

In the years following the Stanleys death, still remained a hotel, business was still good, but then as the years went on, it kind of started to deteriorate a little bit. Whatever entity Freeland had sold it to, whatever he sold it,

they just weren't putting a ton of money toward it and they weren't really keeping up with it as much as...

Kathryn (20:48)

They just weren't putting a ton of money toward it and they weren't really keeping up with it as much as

Freeland did. They just weren't as passionate about it. It's what happens when shit like that happens. ⁓ Also, I found this interesting. In general, people's travel habits kind of started to change as we moved further past the middle of the century. Basically, the world was getting larger and people were...

it was realistic for people to go on these big grand adventures versus like hitting up the same hotel year after year after year after year. Airline travel and then we, know, moving into like the 70s, 60s and 70s was like hippie era. Let's like hop in the car and like see where we end up. And this wasn't the type of place that catered to like the nomads or hippies or whatever. This was a luxury hotel.

Gina (21:16)

It was realistic for people to go on these big grand adventures. Hitting up the same hotel year after year after year. Because like airline travel became really big. then we, you know, moving into like the 70s, 60s and 70s was like hippie era. Let's like go out west and like see where we end up. Yeah. And this wasn't the type of place that catered to like the nomads or hippies. Yeah. OK. Luxury hotels. So

people who could afford luxury were flying to Europe or going to

Kathryn (21:41)

people who could afford luxury were flying to Europe or going to

the big city or whatever. So all of this combined with the fact that they weren't really keeping up with it too much did ⁓ business was hurting basically toward the latter half of the century until that is one very notable author stayed the night.

Gina (21:46)

you know, big city or whatever. So, all of this combined with the fact that they weren't really keeping up with it too much did ⁓ business was hurting basically toward the latter half of the century until that is one very notable author stayed the night

with his wife and that was none other than Stephen King.

Kathryn (22:08)

with his wife and that was none other than Stephen King.

It was right before the hotel closed for the winter so they were the only two guests there. Yes. They stayed in room 217 which is reportedly the same room that the gas explosion happened in and while there King had a nightmare that would go on to inspire his infamous novel The Shining. In this nightmare he dreamt about his son who

Gina (22:12)

It was right before the hotel closed for the winter, so they were the only two guests there. okay. I didn't know that. They stayed in room 217, which is reportedly the same room that the gas explosion happened in. And while there, King had a nightmare that would go on to inspire his infamous novel, The Shining.

In this nightmare, he dreamt about his son, who

Kathryn (22:36)

was

being chased by a fire hose down these long corridors throughout the hotel. Yes

Gina (22:36)

being chased by a fire hose down these long corridors throughout the hotel. God. Yes.

Kathryn (22:42)

So this nightmare combined with the fact that he and his wife are essentially alone in this like snowy mountain lodge inspired him to write The Shining. That's very much the vibe of that book slash movie.

Gina (22:42)

So this nightmare combined with the fact that he and his wife are essentially alone in this like snowy mountain lodge inspired him to write The Shining. That's very much the vibe of that book slash movie.

The Shining is published in 1977 and King is very vocal about the inspiration. There's no hiding the fact that the hotel in this novel, the overlook, is very directly taken from the Stanley. And this

Kathryn (22:57)

The Shining is published in 1977 and King is very vocal about the inspiration. There's no hiding the fact that the hotel in this novel, The Overlook, is very directly taken from the Stanley. In this...

Gina (23:11)

very much single-handedly kind of turns around the fate of the hotel. At the time they stayed there, pardon the pun, it was kind of a ghost of its former state.

Kathryn (23:11)

very much single-handedly kind of turns around the fate of the hotel. At the time they stayed there, pardon the pun, it was kind of a ghost of its former self.

10 stars, beautiful, absolute perfect pun. But once people started learning that this was the inspiration for the overlook, this became like a... ⁓

Gina (23:24)

star is beautiful, absolutely perfect. But once people started learning that this was the inspiration for the overlook, this became like a

Kathryn (23:34)

spooky tourist destination. Everyone wanted to go see where this story took place basically. And a lot of people wanted to stay in the infamous room 217 where King stayed when he was there. there have been numerous stories about this room. One of my favorites and one of the most harmless is that people will find their bags unpacked. Like you go into the room, yes like

Gina (23:35)

spooky tourist destination. Everyone wanted to go see where this story took place basically. And a lot of people wanted to stay in the infamous room 217 where King stayed when he was there. And there have been numerous stories about this room. One of my favorites and one of the most harmless is that people will find their bags unpacked.

Love that!

Kathryn (24:03)

You know when you check into a hotel or whatever, you just drop your shit, like freshen up real quick and head out to dinner or like go look around or whatever, people will do that and when they get back, it's basically like someone has come in and unloaded for them, like they'll like unpack for them,

Gina (24:17)

I love that!

Kathryn (24:19)

yes. And conversely, people have experienced the opposite. If they leave their belongings kind of tossed about when they go to sleep at night, many claim that they'll wake up to, I guess that's not the opposite.

Gina (24:21)

And conversely, people have experienced the opposite. If they leave their belongings tossed about when they go to sleep at night, many claim that they'll wake up to... I guess that's not the opposite.

Kathryn (24:31)

Like, it seems like housekeeping has come and like cleaned up the room. I guess that's more tidying. Yeah. seems like whatever is... Well, I'll let you finish. Well, okay. So I will say

Gina (24:31)

It seems like housekeeping has come and cleaned up the room. I guess that's more tidy. That's so interesting, because there's such It seems like whatever is... Well, I'll let you finish the story before I start running my mouth. Okay, so I will say...

Kathryn (24:47)

many people do claim that this is the spirit of Elizabeth Wilson, the one who was the housekeeper.

Gina (24:47)

Many people do claim that this is the spirit of Elizabeth Wilson, the one who was the housekeeper.

Kathryn (24:54)

she's basically cleaning up after the people who are staying there. And one of the reasons people think that she is haunting this room in particular is ⁓ it's noted that the lights often flicker in that room. that might be people think it's an indication that she's like checking the electricity in the room. Yeah. But 217 is not the only place where people have had strange experiences. The fourth.

Gina (25:07)

Okay, yeah. Interesting.

Kathryn (25:21)

floor, which was once used as a servant's quarters and had children's rooms in it. ⁓ People will say that throughout the entire night, they can hear children running around and laughing and being super loud and disruptive pretty much all through the night. And when they either call down to the front desk or go out and check it for themselves, no one is there. Like no one has been out. They just hear children throughout the halls, but no one's actually there.

Gina (25:22)

Okay.

Kathryn (25:51)

One of the most notable parts of the hotel that people cite as being a hotspot for activity is the staircase. So when you first walk in, there's this big, grand staircase that kind of wraps around with these really ornate banisters. ⁓ It's beautiful. I wish I had my shit so I could like, I guess I could show you on this.

Gina (25:51)

One of the most notable parts of the hotel that people cite as being a hotspot for activity is the staircase. So when you first walk in, there's this big, grand staircase that kind of wraps around with these really ornate banisters. It's beautiful. I wish I had my shit so I could, I guess I could show you on this. I can

Google it real quick.

Oh, these are beautiful.

Kathryn (26:14)

these are beautiful.

There have been numerous accounts of people who see orbs kind of darting all around the staircase. A lot of photos of orbs. And I know that that's something we take that with a grain of salt. But.

Gina (26:16)

There have been numerous accounts of people who see orbs kind of darting all around the staircase. A lot of photos of orbs. And I know that that's something we take that with a grain of salt.

people have noted seeing them with like just the naked eye. And I will say there's a lot of framed photos and mirrors and stuff all over the place. So it's just very disorienting. Yeah. is a famous photo.

Kathryn (26:27)

People have noted seeing them with just the naked eye. And I will say there's a lot of framed photos and mirrors and stuff all over the place. So it's just very disorienting. is a famous photo

that went viral literally the year after I was there. And I was so bummed that I was not there for it. And I'll show it you in a second. We'll put it in the YouTube video. But.

Gina (26:41)

That went viral literally the year after I was there and I was so bummed that I was not there for it. And I'll show it to you in a second. I will put it in the YouTube video. But

just for those listening, I'll describe it to you now. It basically is the picture of a tour, people on a ghost tour, and they're standing kind of in the landing of the staircases where it wraps around. And it's this big group. But in the lower...

Kathryn (26:53)

Just for those listening, I'll describe it to you now. It basically is the picture of a tour, ⁓ people in a ghost tour, and they're standing kind of in the landing of the staircases where it wraps around, and it's this big group. But in the lower

part of the picture, you can see what appears to be a girl running up the stairs. And then around the other side of the banister, there appears to be a second child.

Gina (27:11)

of the picture, you can see what appears to be a girl running up the stairs and then around the other side of the banister there appears to be a second child

also running up the stairs. And let me show it to you now.

Kathryn (27:22)

also running up the stairs. ⁓ And let me show it you now. on.

there's absolutely a kid there. You see that? Yeah. So this is the main girl. But then there's something here to.

Gina (27:29)

there's absolutely a there. You see that? Yeah. Yeah. This is the main girl, but then there's something. yeah.

that one's kind of creepy. Yeah. So it's like running past. There's two people. There's a person standing on the stairs, which I believe is the tour guide. And then there's someone sitting on the stairs. Yeah. There's like a smudge running past them. Yeah. That is like undeniably.

Kathryn (27:39)

So it's like running past, there's two people, there's a person standing on the stairs, which I believe is the tour guide, and then there's someone sitting on the stairs, and there's like a smudge running past them.

So that's the thing, yes, is part of the reason it went so viral is because it's kind of, one of those things where at first glance it's like, those are just kids. But if you really, really look, it's so perfectly smudgy and partially transparent that it's like.

Gina (27:54)

So that's the thing, yes, is part of the reason it went so viral is because it's kind of, it's one of those things where at first glance it's like, those are just kids. But if you really, really look, it's so perfectly smudgy and partially transparent. Yeah. It's like,

that would have.

Kathryn (28:14)

that would have

to be edited in because even though they're running the blur, because you can actually see, think part of the reason it's so legit or people think it's so legit is these two people are also moving. And you can see that they're blurry, but they're not transparent in the way that those two are.

Gina (28:15)

be edited in because even though they're running the blur, because you can actually see, think part of the reason it's so legit or people think it's so legit is these two people are also moving. Yeah. And you can see that they're blurry, but they're not transparent in the way that those two are. And the one that's like on the kind of lower bit of the staircase, it doesn't really look like she was moving to me.

Like maybe a little bit, but like mostly standing still. Yeah.

Kathryn (28:40)

Like maybe a little bit. No. Yeah, it looks like she's standing there. Yep,

exactly. So lot of people think this is authentic. I personally am one of them. And I will say that part in addition to everything I just named, it would be like kind of an impressive edit job, in my opinion. But I like I said, I was there the year prior. stairs have a vibe like I will just say like

Gina (28:48)

think this is authentic. I personally am one of them and I will say that part in addition to everything I just named it would be like kind of an impressive edit job in my opinion. But I like I said I was there the year prior. stairs have a vibe. Like I will say like

I just too tangent as I do. So when I went there I flew in for a wedding.

Kathryn (29:08)

I just too tangent as I do. So when I went there, I flew in for a wedding

that was the following day. And it was like one of those, I landed at 7 a.m. I threw my shit in the back of my rental car and I drove up from Denver to Estes Park and like, you know what I mean? just, and then later that day I drove my ass down to Colorado Springs. Like I had a full ass day that day. So I went there and they took walk-ins for ghost tours.

Gina (29:16)

That was the following day and it was like one of those I landed at 7 a.m. I threw my shit in the back of my rental car and I drove up from Denver to us's park and like, you know what I mean? Yeah, and then later that day I drove my ass down to Colorado Springs like I had a full ass day that day. So I went there and they took walk ins for ghost tours and

Kathryn (29:38)

and the family in front of me had like 9 million people in it, so they filled up the last spots of all the ghost tours for the

Gina (29:38)

the family in front of me have like 9 million people in it. Oh God, they filled up the last spot. Oh God.

Kathryn (29:45)

day. and honestly, the woman signing people in, like I could tell she felt bad for me because I was just one lonely little person and there was this whole ass group in front of me and she felt really bad telling me that there was no more space. But, you're allowed to kind of wander the grounds on your own and people who are not staying at the hotel or on a tour,

Gina (29:46)

So, and honestly the woman signing people in, like I could tell she felt bad for me because I was just a lonely little person and there was this whole ass group in front of me and she felt really bad telling me that there was no more space. But, like you're allowed to kind of wander the grounds on your own and people who are not staying at the hotel or on a tour

are allowed to go up as far as the landing of that staircase and then you can't Okay.

Kathryn (30:06)

are allowed to go up as far as the landing of that staircase and then you can't go up further.

Gina (30:11)

So I did. I went on the stairs. I don't know if that's still true. don't know what the barrack- this was 2016 so I don't know exactly what the rules are now. But that's how far you could go then. And I will say a flatlander so it could have been the altitude but it was- I felt like weird and disoriented when I was there.

Kathryn (30:12)

So I did, I went on the stairs. I don't know if that's still true. I don't know what the, this was 2016, so I don't know exactly what the rules are now, but that's how far you could go then. And I will say, a flat lander, so it could have been the altitude, but it was, I felt like weird and disoriented when I was there.

Gina (30:33)

It's a beautiful hotel though. I definitely highly recommend. That was a tangent. I don't know where the fuck I am.

Kathryn (30:33)

It's a beautiful hotel though, I definitely highly recommend. That was a tangent, I don't know where the fuck I am.

Okay.

Gina (30:40)

You

Kathryn (30:43)

Do do do.

So actually, to that point, that was actually a really good transition. A lot of people claim that the Stanley isn't actually haunted at all. And people are just kind of combining the weird feelings you get from like high altitudes and altitude sickness with this sort of aura around the Stanley now as a result of how creepy and disorienting the Shining

Gina (30:44)

So actually, to that point that was actually a really good transition. A lot of people claim that the Stanley isn't actually haunted at all and people are just kind of combining the weird feelings you get from like high altitudes and the altitude sickness with this sort of aura.

around the Stanley now as a result of how creepy and disorienting the writing

Kathryn (31:11)

So on that note, I will say the sightings of Freelin and people hearing Flora playing the piano.

Gina (31:11)

So on that note, I will say the sightings of Freelin and people hearing Flora playing the piano

happen before Stephen King stayed at that hotel. So like, I don't totally believe that he's the one that started all of it just because of the shining. Me neither. Well, who's to say? Anyway. Who fucking knows?

Kathryn (31:20)

did happen before Stephen King stayed at that hotel. like, I don't totally believe that he's the one that started all of it just because of The Shining. But who's to say? Anyway. ⁓

So many people have claimed to have their own very strange nightmares similar to the way Stephen King had nightmares. So some people do believe that

Gina (31:39)

So many people have claimed to have their own very strange nightmares similar to the way Stephen King Okay So some people do believe that

it wasn't his nightmare that created the haunting but the haunted hotel causing him to have a nightmare Okay, yeah, yeah So one of those nightmares I will read to you now Okay

Kathryn (31:50)

It wasn't his nightmare that created the haunting, but the haunted hotel causing him to have a nightmare. Do you know what I mean? So one of those nightmares, I will read to you now.

Gina (32:03)

know. Okay, so I will say I am going to be reading a condensed version of this story because it was very long. And also, I do not have the user's name written down, so that will be in the show notes. basically, the beginning part of this story is they...

Kathryn (32:03)

OK, so I will say I am going to be reading a condensed version of the story because it was very long. And also, I do not have the user's name written down. So that will be in the show notes. So basically, the beginning part of this story is

taking a bunch of pictures, found a bunch of orbs and saw a bunch of orbs around the staircase. And then.

Gina (32:20)

were taking a of pictures, found a bunch of orbs, and saw a bunch of orbs around the staircase. And then

they went out to dinner and then had a great time before returning to their rooms around 1 a.m. So that's I'm gonna start.

Kathryn (32:27)

They went out to dinner and then had a great time before returning to their rooms around 1 AM. So that's where I'm going to start

this story.

they were chatting, parting ways. He and his two, I think his two friends were in, like, staying in the same room together. I think it was like a couple and then him.

Gina (32:38)

were chatting, parting ways. He and his two friends were staying in the same room together. think it was a couple and then him.

Kathryn (32:49)

were kind of laughing off the orbs and the weird feelings and stuff like, oh, ha ha ha, we're in a haunted hotel, quote unquote. This took place about 10 years ago. So this is like after, yeah. So this is like after The Shining and all of that.

Gina (32:49)

were kind of laughing off the orbs and the weird feelings and stuff like, oh, ha ha ha, we're in a haunted hotel, quote unquote. This took place about 10 years ago. Old. Yeah. So this is like after the shining and all of that. OK.

says, but I admit when I closed the door behind me after finally entering my room around 1 AM.

Kathryn (33:03)

says, I admit when I closed the door behind me after finally entering my room around 1 AM,

Gina (33:09)

An unavoidable dread started to build inside of me. There was a chair right next to my bed. I froze when I thought I saw a middle-aged man with black hair sitting in it with his legs crossed, just leering at me. Ew. OK, leering. I know, right? Yes. story is kind of scary. think it's kind You scared me a little bit. OK.

Kathryn (33:10)

an unavoidable dread started to build inside of me. There was a chair right next to my bed. froze when I thought I saw a middle-aged man with black hair sitting in it with his legs crossed, just leering at me. Ew, okay, leering. I know, right? Yes. This story is kind of scary. I think it's kind of scary. You scared me a little bit. Okay.

Gina (33:30)

It says, so I instinctively flipped the light back on. Nothing was there. However,

Kathryn (33:31)

It says, I instinctively flicked the light back on. Nothing was there. However,

after falling asleep, I dreamt of that same man seated at the side of my bed making horrific faces at me, like rolling his eyes all the way up into his head with his mouth hanging open and his tongue sticking out on the side, like either he was trying to scare me or was just really, really ill. is right, yeah.

Gina (33:35)

After falling asleep, I dreamt of that same man seated at the side of my bed making horrific faces at me. Like rolling his eyes all the way up into his head with his mouth hanging open and his tongue sticking out on the side. Like either he was trying to scare me or was just really, really ill.

This

is when I woke up and as I came out of my stupor I realized that I was lying at the edge of my bed, my head looking directly at that chair. I fell back asleep but kept getting woken up by someone's kids running and laughing out in the hallway.

Kathryn (33:57)

This is when I woke up and as I came out of my stupor, I realized that I was lying at the edge of my bed, my head looking directly at that chair. fell back asleep, but kept getting woken up by someone's kids running and laughing out in the hallway.

This was true because I remember seeing several families with children entering and exiting their rooms, but it was absolutely incessant. And at ungodly hour, the middle of the night, I got out of bed and angrily stomped my way toward the door, swung it open. Nobody was there.

Gina (34:15)

This was true because I remember seeing several families with children entering and exiting their rooms, but it was absolutely incessant. And at ungodly hour, the middle of the night, I got out of bed and angrily stomped my way toward the door, swung it open. Nobody was there.

Kathryn (34:35)

It's so simple, but it's so terrifying.

Gina (34:32)

that genuinely is like one of the scarier nightmares I've ever heard of But terrifying

even if it because when I was trying to comfort myself on my brain I was like, oh maybe like whatever this thing was was just trying to be silly and like spook somebody with scary faces But even then that's fucking scary

Kathryn (34:49)

Even

then that's scary and the fact that when he first walked in he was leering at him like yeah

Gina (34:52)

was just leering at him. The word leering, yeah. And like

the funny faces weren't just like, wham, know, like rolling your eyes all the way back. And the fact that the two options were either he was trying to scare him or he was ill, like Yes, that's really scary. tell between those two, that's scary. Oh, fuck that. No, that would scare the shit out of me. Yeah. Oh my god. That's the scariest part, so I'm going leave it at that.

Kathryn (35:00)

Yes. And the fact that the two options were either he was trying to scare him or he was ill, like that's scary. If you can't tell between those two, that's scary. Yeah. Yeah. That's the scariest part. So I'm going to leave it at

Gina (35:18)

image is like burned into my brain. I'm just experiencing it. I know. Well, and one of the things

Kathryn (35:21)

I know. Well, and one of the things

Gina (35:24)

I noticed when I was looking up modern accounts because you know we have the Freeland lingering in the corner and Flora playing the piano and like all the innocent housekeeper stuff but people seem genuinely afraid of this hotel so I was like this all sounds lovely and adorable. That's yes. A lot of the modern stories have to do with

Kathryn (35:24)

I noticed when I was looking up modern accounts, because we have the Freeland lingering in the corner and Flora playing the piano and all the innocent housekeeper stuff, but people seem genuinely afraid of this hotel. So was like, this all sounds lovely and adorable. So I don't understand. A lot of the modern stories have to do with

that. Very strange dreams, weird ghosts making

Gina (35:48)

that like very strange dreams weird ghosts making

Kathryn (35:52)

weird faces and just like kind of a little bit more antagonistic than just a passive piano playing. read numerous accounts of people being on tours and seeing alarming looking

Gina (35:52)

weird faces and just like Kind of a little bit more antagonistic than just a passive piano playing I've read numerous accounts of people being on tours and seeing alarming looking I was a alarming looking people like very similar to that dream

Kathryn (36:08)

I want to say alarming looking people, like very similar to that dream, like people who look unwell and

scary and scared at the same time. And like I said, this energy just feels so strange compared to what we kind of had at the beginning. So I'm kind of wondering if maybe there is something to the whole like Stephen King aspect of it where like before

Gina (36:14)

scary and scared at the same time. And like I said, this energy just feels so strange compared to what kind of had at the beginning. So I'm kind of wondering if maybe there is something to the whole like Stephen King aspect of it where like before...

Kathryn (36:36)

there wasn't a lot of negative energy, now so many people are coming with the assumption that it is a scary place. We've talked about this with the Roff House. If you come in expecting to have a scary experience, you're probably going to have a scary experience.

Gina (36:36)

There wasn't a lot of negative energy, now so many people are. Mm. It is a scary place. We've talked about that. Yeah. This was the Roth House. know, you expect them to have a scary experience, you're probably going to have a scary experience. Yeah.

Kathryn (36:52)

earlier, when I said, I'm just going let you tell the story before I start running my mouth, it's because I was like, I'm surprised at how nice.

Gina (36:52)

earlier when I said, I'm just going let you tell the story before I start running my mouth. It's because I was like, I'm surprised at how nice

the presences seem. Like they're trying to take care of the hotel and they're helping guests like put away their stuff or tidy things up or they're playing the piano and things like that, which is so the opposite of the shining, scary, spooky, almost like borderline demonic.

Kathryn (37:01)

Yeah.

Gina (37:16)

I do think that you're 100%. I completely agree with you. I think that

people go into it expecting it to be scary, and they're bringing the negative energy with them. And if I was somebody haunting that hotel, I'd be pretty sick of that too. And I probably would start fucking with them a little bit. Yeah. And it's in an area where you can just tell.

Kathryn (37:21)

people go into it expecting it to be scary and they're bringing the negative energy with them. And if I was somebody haunting that hotel, I'd be pretty sick of that too. And I probably would start fucking with them a little bit. Yeah. And it is, I mean, it's in an area where you can just tell,

it's so surrounded by nature.

Gina (37:38)

so surrounded by nature.

It was like who the fuck knows?

Kathryn (37:41)

It's like, who the fuck knows

Gina (37:43)

Yeah True True. ⁓

Kathryn (37:43)

what was going on before the town was there? You know what mean? It could very easily be a haunted land situation. So the spirits that we are experiencing there have nothing to do with the Stanleys whatsoever. ⁓ Also, keep in mind, people went there when they had TB. That is another piece that we've not really talked about.

and that I don't see mentioned a lot in these stories and accounts that people had. So that would explain

if someone seemed ill or scary, you know? So much anxiety. Some of the most haunted places, I'm going to speak from an American perspective, obviously. Some of the most haunted places here are places that were like.

Gina (38:13)

if someone seemed ill or scared. And that's a lot of like fear and anxiety in a space. Some of the most haunted places, I'm going to speak from an American perspective obviously, some of the most haunted places here are places that were like...

Kathryn (38:31)

hotbeds for TB people, different hospitals and stuff like that. So the fact that that's the reason Freeland was out there and he had such a great experience with it does not mean that everyone did. So it could be a huge, that could be a huge part of it as well. Yeah, and because there's so much.

Gina (38:45)

I

Kathryn (38:51)

ghost activity, is kind of one of those places that you want to go with a non-believer because it's hard to not believe. I was there for a few hours and I felt so, granted, I obviously believe very deeply, but whole town kind of has a vibe. Like I went into this, I don't know what, it was like this.

Gina (38:51)

activity this is kind of one of those places that you want to go with a non-believer because yeah it's hard to not believe I was there for a few hours and I felt so granted I obviously believe very deeply but

The whole town kind of has a vibe. Like I went into this, I don't know what you call it, was like this

Kathryn (39:12)

convenient store, but it was kind of like a catch-all store. like even the people there were a little weird, like not the people, like, there's some weird guy in the crowd. No, but like even being in there, was just,

Gina (39:12)

convenience store, but it was kind like a catch-all store. like even the people there were a little weird. Like not the people, but like. There were some real fucking weirdos in there. No, but like even being in there, was just.

Kathryn (39:27)

the vibe was weird. Like the vibe is just weird, you know? And not in a bad or negative way, just in a, I had very little doubt that, yeah, exactly.

Gina (39:27)

The vibe was weird. The vibe is just weird, you know? And not in a bad or negative way, just in a I had very little doubt that. In a notable way. Yeah, exactly.

Kathryn (39:39)

So I am not the only one that very strongly believes that the Stanley, also probably just Estes Park in general, is very haunted. The hotel does emphatically embrace the haunted reputation. Like, they have to. It's honestly the reason they're still in business. So they have regular themed.

Gina (39:47)

Yeah, I get that moneymaker

Kathryn (40:01)

dinners and events. They have like straight up The Shining themed things, but also just ghost tours, haunted events, things like that. They eat it up and it's very successful. People go there for that specifically. So I'm gonna read one more Reddit story. Same deal. Sorry, I didn't write down the name. It'll all be in the show notes, but it is about an experience someone had on one of the ghost tours.

Gina (40:01)

dinners and events. Fun. Like straight up the Shining themed things, but also just ghost tours, haunted events, things like that. ⁓ They eat it up and it's very successful. People go there for that specifically. So I'm going to read one more Reddit story. Same deal. Sorry, I didn't write down the name. It'll all be in the show notes, but it is about an experience someone had on one of the ghost tours. Okay.

Kathryn (40:28)

says, just got back from the Stanley Hotel ghost tour in Colorado and it was probably one of the most intense and incredibly terrifying paranormal experiences I have ever had. I believe in ghosts and have seen spirits before briefly but always non menacing or sinister. Today was different. The activity was so intense, all kinds of very lifelike ghosts as well as creatures everywhere. Creatures, yes.

Gina (40:28)

shit, okay.

The activity was so intense, all kinds of very lifelike ghosts as well as creatures everywhere. Creatures? Creatures. Okay.

I don't know fuck that means. And it was... everywhere. And it was lights out the entire tour and I literally couldn't even focus on what my guide was saying because in certain rooms they would just not leave me alone.

Kathryn (40:57)

I don't know what the fuck that means. And it was... everywhere. it was lights out the entire tour and I literally couldn't even focus on what my guide was saying because in certain rooms they would just not leave me alone.

And they were very sinister. It seemed like they were trying to keep me and my party in there as long as possible, which I don't fucking like. I hate that. Yes. And I will say sorry, interrupting the story.

Gina (41:10)

and they were very sinister, it seemed like they were trying to keep me and my party in there as long as possible, which I don't Yeah, I don't like that. That's creepy. And I will say, sorry, interrupting the story.

Kathryn (41:23)

the vibe I got when I was there. That was part of the creepiness. Yeah, stay. That is very shocking. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I know.

Gina (41:22)

That's the vibe I got when I was there. Like stay. of the creepiness. yeah, like stay. That is very shining. yeah. Right? Yes.

Kathryn (41:33)

Blah, blah. One of the other people I went with said they saw them a few times, but they weren't messing with him. And he just saw them kind of in the corner, along with other few menacing creature-like figures that I also saw.

Gina (41:35)

people I went with said they saw them a few times but they weren't messing with him and he just saw them kind of in the corner along with other few menacing creature-like figures that I also saw.

Also lots of weird moments throughout the tour like as if they were able to warp the way I view reality almost that just didn't seem real at all. So terrifying and strange like I was never gonna get out. Very shining. Very very yeah.

Kathryn (41:46)

Also, lots of weird moments throughout the tour, like as if they were able to warp the way I view reality, almost that just didn't seem real at all. So terrifying and strange, like I was never going to get out. Very shining, like the warped reality.

Afterwards, reflecting, we all think it's crazy, and I'm happy I did it. I do enjoy a good scare, but man, I never knew that it was that bad.

Gina (42:03)

reflecting we all think it's crazy and I'm happy I did it I do enjoy a good scare but man I never knew that it was that bad.

So the reason I wanted to pull that was because like the whole it's so antagonistic. Yeah. And again that's so the opposite of the...

Kathryn (42:13)

the reason I wanted to pull that was because like the whole, it's so antagonistic, like the dream. And again, that's so the opposite of the

beginning part of this story.

Gina (42:25)

beginning part of this story.

I do wonder, to go back to your point earlier about maybe there was something before the hotel.

Kathryn (42:33)

Yeah.

Gina (42:34)

I wish we knew more about that because I am thinking like the people who

off Stanley and Flora, they were like drawn to this place. wonder if there is something more.

Kathryn (42:38)

Stanley and Flora, they were drawn to this place. wonder if there is something more.

I did find some stories about how, don't remember his name, we can put it in the YouTube video when I find it, but there were some stories about the man who owns the land before they moved in there.

Gina (42:53)

But there were some stories about the man who owns the land before they moved in there and

Kathryn (43:01)

and how he haunts the place as well. But even that didn't seem menacing. He just seemed like some old rich guy that sold them the land. I don't know

Gina (43:01)

how he haunts the place as well. But even that didn't seem menacing. He just seemed like some old rich guy that sold them the land. I don't know.

Kathryn (43:10)

he sold it to them. I couldn't find a lot of information on that transaction or what the land was before that. But even that, the land still gets older than his ownership. You know what I mean? So that doesn't necessarily mean anything. But maybe there's not, maybe.

Gina (43:10)

he sold his land. I couldn't find a lot of information on that transaction or what the land was before that. But even that, the land still gets older than his ownership. So that doesn't necessarily mean anything. And maybe it's

Kathryn (43:26)

We all have those don't yeah

Gina (43:26)

not a menacing intent. Maybe that's not what it's trying to communicate. But that's how it comes across. When you have someone that really wants to be your friend and they of glom onto you a little bit.

But like that kind of vibe maybe where it's it's trying to be like, yeah, come

hang out with me and like I'll make silly faces at you and things like, but it comes across as like stay forever, you know, and creepy and dreams and. you're busy, you have plans, you can't hang out. You're just like sitting there waiting for you to be free. Yeah. Maybe it's that kind of vibe. I don't know. That is so interesting. I really

Kathryn (43:46)

Yeah, I was just gonna say, yeah. Yes. Like you're busy, you have plans, you can't hang out, and they're just like sitting there waiting for you to be free kind of deal. Yes. Maybe. We just, No, I'm Mm-hmm. Me too,

Gina (44:04)

that it would be a more holistically sinister story.

Kathryn (44:09)

Yeah, I didn't know it was gonna be lovely. Until Stephen King came into the picture. even then it's like, was it?

Gina (44:09)

Yeah, I didn't know it was going to be lovely. That was lovely. That's really interesting. Until Stephen King came in to the Yeah. But even then, it's like, was it?

Kathryn (44:18)

just him because like can blame the shining and the vibe that that brought but also like

Gina (44:19)

Like, can blame The Shining and the vibe that that brought, but also like,

it's not like he made all, well, he did make all that up. He wrote the story, but it was inspired by this hotel. So there had to have been something. man. That was fucking fascinating. ⁓ I've never read The Shining. I've seen the movie.

Kathryn (44:24)

It's not like he made all, well he did make all that up, he wrote the story. But it was inspired by this hotel, so there had to have been something.

Yep. That's it. That's the Stanley Hotel.

So long. All his books are way too fucking long. There's no in-between with this guy. He either does novellas or like thousand page novels. I don't ever read.

I genuinely from the bottom of my heart don't remember if I've actually read the book because I've said that I have my entire adult life. I don't remember if I actually have or if I just watched the movie. We'll say he hated the movie when it came out because apparently

Gina (45:00)

Really

Kathryn (45:06)

he the depiction there's not much depiction of like familial love in the movie which is valid Kubrick wasn't big on familial love but

Gina (45:07)

There's not much depiction of familial love in the movie, which is valid. Yeah.

Kathryn (45:16)

does appear in the book. Like you see Jack kind of devolve a lot more in the movie. He's kind of just spooky from the beginning. Spooky. Yes. Jack Nicholson is not the most snuggly type of guy. Yeah.

Gina (45:16)

does appear in the book. You see Jack kind of devolve a lot more in the movie. He's kind of just spooky from the beginning. Well, and there's only so much you can do when the actor is spooky. It's just inherently scary. Jack Nicholson is not the most snuggly type of guy. No.

Kathryn (45:34)

So fun fact. But yeah, that's it. That's the Stanley Hotel. There's so much more to it. We only have an hour though. So

Gina (45:35)

Yeah, so. Okay.

There's so much more to it. We only have an hour though.

I want to take a non-believer there. Me too, yes. And see what happens. was literally only there a few hours. honestly, it is one of those places I am a little scared to spend the night. Let's do it. Yeah, which is one of those, that means we have to That means we have to do it.

Kathryn (45:45)

Me too, yes. was literally only there a few hours, honestly it is one of those places I am a little scared to spend the night, genuinely, yeah, which is one of those, like, that means we have to go because I'm not

too afraid to spend the night most places. But that place, it's because of dreams. Like, my dreams are spooky without being at the Stanley Hotel, so I am a little hesitant about it.

Gina (46:07)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe they would give

you really good dreams. Yeah.

Kathryn (46:16)

If I went I would genuinely ask for a non spooky room

And then ⁓ my god, we can get a non spooky room and we can put the boys in one of the spooky And they can figure that out for themselves Yeah, and we'll go on ours perfect. Yes, I'm imagining tea Yes Perfect

Gina (46:28)

And they can go on their journey and we'll just have a nice little dinner Little finger cakes. Yeah, we're dressed as ghosts.

We break in to their room Okay, I love that well, thank you for looking at that was fascinating

Kathryn (46:40)

Yeah, we are plot twist. We're the ghosts of the ceiling hotel. It's why they look so ill Yeah Absolutely, thank you for listening. Would you

like to read me a story? You may let me password it for you

Gina (46:55)

I would love to. May I borrow your iPad?

Okay, hold on one second because I'm elderly I forgot you your slippers on. Me too. I'm just lounging. This is cozy as fuck. Dude, I'm so cozy. I'm this. we announce to people that we're wearing our OOTYs? Oh yeah, we're wearing our OOTYs. This was a Christmas present.

Kathryn (46:59)

okay hold on one second because I'm dude I'm so cozy should we announce to people that we're wearing our Oodies this was a Christmas present

from Gina

Gina (47:19)

Yeah, yeah,

Kathryn (47:20)

Wait. forgot that was from Yeah, this is from you. Because you got that for your birthday when we were in town. And Phil and I were super jealous. we got these for Christmas.

Gina (47:20)

I forgot that was from yeah, it was from us When you were yes Yeah, they're comfy as

want to hear a story a little one okay? So this is from our friends at chillers and thrillers, and it is called need a ride by Nikki

Kathryn (47:36)

I do. So much. Okay. ⁓

Gina (47:45)

In my first job out of college, I moved from a big city to rural coastal Louisiana.

to work for a newspaper. Well, there's your first mistake. Doesn't that sound like the start of a novel? Yes. Right? Yes. OK. It sounds like the start of a horror novel.

Kathryn (47:52)

there's your first mistake Yes, yeah, it sounds like the start of a horror novel

Gina (47:59)

Wait till it. OK. I'm talking an hour and a half south of New Orleans, deep in the swamp, alligators on the roads, old people still speaking French to each other, and the only way between towns was miles and miles of remote two-lane highways winding along bayous. We do need.

Kathryn (48:17)

need we do need

to pause because we all know how I feel about alligators and this is now the second time that we've talked about alligators on this trip

Gina (48:19)

Because we all know how to feel about alligators. And this is now the second time that we've talked about alligators on this trip.

Kathryn (48:27)

And I'm not okay. No, not even not even not even close. It's been almost. Yeah.

Gina (48:27)

And I'm not OK. and I haven't even been here for 24 hours. No, not even 24. Has it even been 12 hours? It's been almost Well, yes, it's been 12. Yes.

Kathryn (48:38)

Great question. Love where your head's at. But yes, it's been almost 24 hours.

Gina (48:40)

Yes, yes, I

OK. Late one night, I was coming back from an assignment extra tired. I worked hard at my job, slept bad, and the stress was bone deep. I just wanted to get back to the office, finish my writing for the night, and go home. Bayou Sale Road would get me to my destination sooner, though I hated taking it at night. It wound in sharp corners through the open

Kathryn (48:45)

Late one night, I was coming back from an assignment extra tired. I worked hard at my job, slept bad, and the stress was bone deep. I just wanted to get back to the office, finish my writing for the night, and go home.

Bayou sail road would get me to my destination sooner, though I hated taking it at night. It wound in sharp corners through the open

pitch black marsh. No shoulder, no streetlights, just a few skeletal trees and the open grassy water. I slowed down to a crawl to drive.

Gina (49:09)

pitch black marsh. No shoulder, no streetlights, just a few skeletal trees and the open grassy water. I slowed down to a crawl to drive

it. This was the end of the world and no one was coming to get you if you made a mistake. The scene setting in this is so fucking good. So scary. OK. But when I took one of the hard blind corners, I had to slam on my brakes.

Kathryn (49:21)

This was the end of the world and no one was coming to get you if you made a mistake. This scene sounds It's so fucking good. But when I took one of the hard blind corners I had to slam on my brakes.

Gina (49:36)

There was an older man in the road and he didn't even flinch when my brights caught him in the spotlight. I wondered if he was drunk and worried about what I should do. There were no houses around here. He might be in some kind of trouble.

Kathryn (49:36)

There was an older man in the road and he didn't even flinch when my brights caught him in the spotlight. I wondered if he was drunk and worried about what I should do. There were no houses around here. He might be in some kind of trouble.

Gina (49:50)

I sat there with my foot on the brake waiting for him to say something. Some small desperate tale like, thank God you came. I've been in an accident or, ⁓ my car broke down. I need a ride into town. But he was as still and as quiet as I was.

Kathryn (49:50)

I sat there with my foot on the brake waiting for him to say something. Some small desperate tale like, thank God you came, I've been in an accident, or ⁓ my car broke down, I need a ride into town. But he was as still and as quiet as I was.

And we only stared blankly at each other waiting for the other to make a move.

Gina (50:06)

And we only stared blankly at each other, waiting for the other to make a move.

You could just leave, you know, a small part of me said. You're a woman and you're alone. No one would blame you. That's my thing. Sorry I didn't interrupt. You can bail. Man, listen, so many spooky stories are just spooky because you're a woman alone somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. And that's terrifying. That's scary.

Kathryn (50:11)

You could just leave, you know, a small part of me said. You're a woman and you're alone. No one would blame you. That's my thing. Sorry I didn't trap. like, man, listen, so many spooky stories just spooky.

Because you're a woman alone somewhere. That's scary.

Yeah, that's scary. Anyway. The only way to pass him on the narrow road.

Gina (50:33)

Anyway. The only way to pass him on the narrow road

would be to pass him so closely that he could have reached out and touched my car door. cracked my window and asked if he needed some help. He only looked at me.

Kathryn (50:37)

so closely that he could have reached out and touched my car door.

asked if he needed some help. He only looked at me.

I started to feel a creeping panic, my body responding to the idea that something was wrong. Fuck this, it screamed. Not now, not today. I'll call someone, I told him finally, and rolled my window up firmly, checked the door locks, and took off around him.

Gina (50:48)

I started to feel a creeping panic, my body responding to the idea that something was wrong. Fuck this, it screamed. Not now, not today. I'll call someone, I told him finally and rolled my window up firmly, checked the door locks and took off around him.

He didn't waver from his spot in the road even as I hit the gas and carefully dipped around him, crunching on the narrow gravel shoulder.

One quick turn and he disappeared behind me in the marsh. I was spooked so I drove fast and didn't stop and waited until I finally saw the first light of civilizations. Civilizations, multiple civilizations until the lights of my land fell upon me. Until I finally saw the first lit up signs of civilization, a gas station and a convenience store to get out of my car to call the cops in the presence of other people. Fucking smart.

Kathryn (51:19)

I was spooked, so I drove fast and didn't stop and waited until I finally saw the first light of civilizations. Civilizations. Multiple. There's a whole colony of... develop on me. Until finally saw the first lit up signs of civilization, a gas station and a convenience store to get out of my car to call the cops in the presence of other people. That's right.

Gina (51:44)

The clerk listened silently while I reeled off my story on the phone to an officer

Kathryn (51:44)

The clerk listened silently while I reeled off my story on the phone to an officer.

Gina (51:48)

who promised to drive down there and look for the man after taking my information. When they finally hung up, she said, you were down there on Bayou Sale? Yeah, I said. He was alone? No car? Yeah, I said. I have no idea how he got out there. There was nothing. He asked you for a ride, she said. No, I said.

Kathryn (51:49)

to drive down there and look for the man after taking my information. When they finally hung up, she said, you were down there on Bayou sail? Yeah, I said. He was alone? No car? Yeah, I said. I have no idea how he got out there. There was nothing. He asked you for a ride? She said. No, I said.

Gina (52:11)

You offered to give him one, she said. Great. I thought now she thinks I'm some kind of asshole. No, I said, but, and she interrupted, good, because that probably wasn't no man this time of night. The road, she said, was haunted by spirits who would often try to catch tourists, people who didn't know any better. And if you agreed to pick the spirit up, he could ask for another favor, usually your soul, she said.

Kathryn (52:11)

You offered to give him one, she said. Great, I thought now she thinks I'm some kind of asshole. No, I said, but, and she interrupted, good, because that probably wasn't no man this time of night. The road, she said, was haunted by spirits who would often try to catch tourists.

people who didn't know any better, and if he agreed to pick the spirit up, he could ask for another favor, usually your soul," she said.

I nodded gravely at the woman, but laughed hysterically to myself when I finally got back into my car, still shaking a bit with the adrenaline and the fear. What a stupid thing to get taken in by. The hitchhiking ghost was a classic kids' campfire story. I had more to fear from any living man than a dead man.

Gina (52:38)

I nodded gravely at the woman, but laughed hysterically to myself when I finally got back into my car, still shaking a bit with the adrenaline and the fear. What a stupid thing to get taken in by. The hitchhiking ghost was a classic kids campfire story. I had more to fear from any living man than a dead man.

When I still couldn't shake the creeps the next day, I called the cops back to see if they'd ever picked someone up. Sure, he would just been some old drunk. They drove the road several times.

Kathryn (52:57)

When I still couldn't shake the creeps the next day, I called the cops back to see if they'd ever picked someone up. Sure, he would just have been some old drunk. They drove the road several times,

the cops said. There was no one.

Gina (53:08)

The cop said there was no one.

Kathryn (53:11)

That's spooky. Road ghosts. goes deep. You are off in the

Gina (53:15)

road ghosts. Tourist targeting road ghosts.

That does go deep. I'm often a tourist. You are often a tourist. I'm not from more places than I am from, you know what mean?

Like, pretty much anywhere I go. You what? I do know you You feel me, dude? I do know you I hear you, girlfriend. That's fucking scary. like, by you.

Kathryn (53:28)

You know what I do know what you mean yes, I do know you mean I hear your girlfriend That is scary middle of the night by you.

There's nowhere to go but Marsh That's scary is one of my fears I do get I do get scared driving it okay when we were driving last night, and I Pulled off the interstate cuz my GPS told me to

Gina (53:38)

No, like street lamps. Just a dude. That's That is one of my fears. do get scared driving. OK, when we were driving last night and I pulled off the interstate because my GPS told me to,

⁓ I think I had a boy hide highways on my I checked and I thought I didn't, but I think it did. So it took me off.

Kathryn (53:54)

I think I had avoid highways on my GPS. do think. I checked and I thought I didn't, but I think it did. So it took me off.

And the first thing out of my mouth was, this is creepy or something like that. And Phil was like, what? No, is that why? I'm like, yes, it is. This is like opening scene of a horror movie type shit. Like, why is it taking me where I don't need to go in the middle of this farmland?

Gina (54:03)

And the first thing out of my mouth was, oh, this is creepy or something like that. It was. And Phil was like, what? No, it's not. Why? I'm like, yes, it is. This is like opening scene of a horror movie type shit. Like, why is it taking me where I don't need to go in the middle of this fun room?

And the bit that I'll wait, like the part that scares me the most about that is like you feel so safe in a car, but it's not that fucking safe. It is not that. No, they're not that safe. They're actually incredibly dangerous. And it's

Kathryn (54:21)

scares me the most about that is like, feel so safe in a car. They're that safe. They're not that safe. They're dangerous. It's

Gina (54:32)

really easy for someone to get in there. And so I feel like there's this false sense of security that you get in situations like that. Not me though. No, not you. Not you. Don't worry, I thought of this. I'm in danger constantly. think they're safe out there, listen to

Kathryn (54:32)

really easy for someone to get in there. So I feel like there's this false sense of security that you get in situations like that. No, me. Not me. always feel unsafe no matter what I'm doing or where I am. Don't worry. I've thought of this many times. For everyone else that thinks they're safe out there, listen.

the Gina because you're not yeah right now we're safe mostly Gina though I'm still

Gina (54:52)

Gina, because you're not. You're not. You're not. Not unless you're in this basement, in this Airbnb. Right now we're We're completely fine. Gina though.

Kathryn (54:59)

not safe I'm safe with you so by proxy I'm a little less unsafe

Gina (54:59)

But you're with me though, so you're yeah, you're good. They won't fuck with me touch wood

We knock on wood but yeah, that's fucking scary

Kathryn (55:09)

Yeah, that's fucking scary. I do

agree with the sentiment of feeling a lot less safe if it had been a human man. do understand that, but so scary no matter which way you swing it. Yeah. Yep. But that's my story. Excellent. That's my story too. And thus concludes our first ever episode in person with each other. Oh my God. Hopefully it went well so you all can...

Gina (55:14)

feeling a lot less safe if it had been a human man. that, but it's still scary. Scary either way. Yeah. Yeah. But that's my story. Excellent. That's my story too. And thus concludes our first ever episode in person with each other. Hopefully it went well so you all can

experience it. Yeah. With us. We'll find out after we hit end record. We'll fucking see. We have no idea.

Kathryn (55:34)

Experience it. Yeah, we'll find out after we hit and record

how do we ⁓ wait? Yeah, sorry. I was like, do we end these? Okay?

Gina (55:41)

Cool. Well, until next time. Oh wait, yeah. Until next

time, little spoons. Keep it cool.

Kathryn (55:50)

and keep it creepy.