Ep. 46: Fenn’s treasure
Gina (00:11)
Hello and welcome everyone to fucking spooky season. Hooray. And also welcome to I Scream You Scream. I am Gina.
Kathryn (00:15)
Yay!
My name is Kathryn
Gina (00:21)
And in September, we're going to be telling stories where something isn't quite what it seems while we enjoy ice cream with magic shell on top. are just a few weeks away from our very first birthday as a podcast, adorable little toddler podcasters. And the only thing we want is some five star ratings.
But until then, grab a spoon and let's dig in.
Kathryn (00:46)
Yay.
Gina (00:47)
I have to warn you of something. I am champagne hungover right now. So yeah, if I seem a little low energy, it's not because I am, it's because I'm dying a little. ⁓ When we got engaged, a few people gave us some bottles of bubbly. And so last night was like a get through the booze
Kathryn (00:50)
What?
What? my gosh. Tell me more.
Nice.
will say that was my favorite part of telling everyone when Phil and I first got engaged because I love a bottle of bubbly. Everywhere you go. Everyone has champagne or Prosecco or some type of bubbly something for you. It was great. I loved that.
Gina (01:24)
I mean, it's lovely.
also, you know, when you wake up in the morning and sometimes as soon as you wake up, you know exactly what you need that day. I woke up craving whimsy this morning, which I feel like is going to be excellent for this episode. So I'm very excited. I know I should have saved it. I should have saved it.
Kathryn (01:25)
fun.
Mm-hmm.
Buckle up. Man, that was a good transition and we still have more stuff to talk about.
Gina (01:48)
But I do want to hear, I saw you wrote down ⁓ that you want to tell me about Weapons. Did you go see it?
Kathryn (01:48)
We can just, yes.
Listen, okay, I knew nothing about this movie whatsoever. I had seen a couple people post about it previously, like before it came out, and then I heard nothing else. So I was just thinking was whatever, just a whatever movie. my God. Now that I've seen it, I'm like, okay, actually everyone's talking about it. I just wasn't, it wasn't on my radar, you know? ⁓ God. I don't recommend it to you at all.
Gina (02:11)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (02:20)
But I have to talk about it. Tom and I were briefly talking about it because I posted about it on Instagram. anyone out there who loves a good murder, not even murder mystery, it's like a horror mystery. Fantastic. It is the most creative and well done horror movie I've seen in a very long time.
Gina (02:26)
He mentioned, yeah.
Kathryn (02:43)
very rarely go to the movie theater because I'm kind of a baby and I get a little stressed when we go to the movies. But every now, but Phil really loves it. So I'm like, okay, if you really want to see something, you have to tell me that you want to, and then we'll go. I'm never going to be the one to say I want to go to the movies. That will never happen. But I am willing to go if you want to go. I'm so glad we did because it was like, have to see it in, you don't have to see it in the theater, but seeing it in the movie theater added to the experience.
Gina (02:49)
you
Hmm.
Okay.
Kathryn (03:13)
It was just
so good. It was so cleverly written. It was shot beautifully.
I don't want to say anything about the premise because I did not know anything. All I knew was it was a horror mystery, which I missed that Phil was texting it to me and I missed the word horror. I thought it was just a mystery. So halfway through the movie, I was like, what the fuck are we watching right now? ⁓ So yeah, I knew it was a mystery. I knew it starred that blonde chick from Ozarks and some Brolin guy. That's all I knew about the movie.
Gina (03:22)
you
You
Kathryn (03:45)
And that was perfect. That was all I wanted to know. The only part of the synopsis, I will say, this is not a spoiler, is an entire classroom full of children go missing and no one knows why.
And that's all I'm going to say. And it just, it's just bonkers. It's, ⁓ it's so good. It's very good.
Gina (04:07)
Man,
I'm kind of, because I've heard so many people say that it's phenomenal and obviously the reviews have been amazing. So this is one where I'm kind of tempted to see it. However, if I do, I have to wait until it's like we can either watch it, like stream it or get the DVD so I can watch it in the middle of the day when I'm safe.
Kathryn (04:23)
What I would love
for you is for Tom to see it and mark the timestamps of when to tell you to close your eyes. Because I think that you could handle, you can handle the story, but there are some things, there are plenty of things you would not like to see. I screamed in the middle of the theater at one point. Like that's how, which, in my defense, in my defense, it wasn't.
Gina (04:30)
Hmm
I'm just a little flower.
my god!
Kathryn (04:48)
actually because of what was on screen, because I was watching with my eyes covered. The woman next to me screamed and jumped at this jump scare. So she scared me. So like, I was startled by it was just a great experience. mean, I, yeah, I just, so Tom should go see it and then like come with a little notebook of like when to tell you to protect yourself. Cause the story is great.
Gina (04:52)
Mm-hmm.
⁓ yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Excellent.
I'm always impressed, and I don't mean this to sound like I'm being a horror dick, when people talk about horror movies the way that you're talking about it, like it's a piece of art, I'm always really impressed by to tell a story that is scary in a way that's beautiful, I think must be really hard to do. So I respect that.
Kathryn (05:31)
Yeah.
everything you just said, take it one step further and have it be artfully done, but not douchey arty is like my favorite thing. Because there's...
Gina (05:39)
Yeah.
Kathryn (05:42)
It's so easy to cross that line over into pretension, which drives me nuts. Because the last thing I want when I'm watching a movie is to feel like the people behind this movie are like, oh, look at us. We're so impressive. I did not get that vibe from this movie at all. was just so good. just, oh my god.
Gina (05:45)
Mm-hmm.
Okay, nice.
We could try. I'm willing to try. I'm curious. I'm curious enough to try for sure. On the complete other side of the artistic spectrum, I started showing Tom Survivor.
Kathryn (06:05)
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's fantastic. You know, I never
watched Survivor ever. I've never seen a single episode of it.
Gina (06:25)
What? ⁓ wow, I just assumed that everyone, because it's a very nostalgic show for me. We watched it like when I was a kid.
Kathryn (06:27)
Yeah.
This is why I mention it.
Yeah.
Gina (06:33)
think there are parts that would not appeal to you. Like I don't know if you would have fun watching people Live your worst nightmare for 30 however many days
Kathryn (06:41)
I think that's what it is.
There's, yeah, there's just not much in there for me
I really don't know because I've never seen it. You know what I mean? Like there isn't any like I can't really point to anything. I'm not against it. I just I don't like competition and I don't like needing to survive. Like that's all it is, right? Like I don't know.
Gina (06:48)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, that's all it is. Well, I guess, mean, like,
I think maybe the one aspect of it that you might enjoy is it's equal parts, like a survival competition and a social game, because all the contestants get to vote on like who's out next or whatever. So there's like alliances and backstabbing. And sometimes it's, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's very well done and subtly done.
Kathryn (07:21)
That's the one where it's like you vote them up the island, right? Is that okay? Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Gina (07:30)
and gorgeously manipulative in a very impressive way. So that's fun, but.
Kathryn (07:33)
Yeah.
See, I also hate
when people manipulate people. That drives me nuts. I don't like shows like that.
Gina (07:41)
But then you get people who are horrible at it and watching them be horrible at it which can be kind of funny.
Kathryn (07:46)
like you and I have opposite tastes in things, but like somehow they still kind of overlap somehow. yeah, exactly. The story I'm literally about to tell has very much to do with everything you just said. And it's like, why did I choose this? I don't know. Is this our transition or? Yeah, okay. Excellent.
Gina (07:48)
think we do.
They're complimentary. It's like, yeah.
Ugh, that's all I want. Yes, okay, well with great transition in mind, yes. Let's fucking do,
I want to know about the treasure.
The quest for Fenn’s treasure
Kathryn (08:13)
Okay, okay, excellent.
I literally wrote out in my notes in the spirit of this being a Gina episode, allow me to spin you a tale as you would do if you were doing this episode, which I never do. I'm very excited to tell the story like you do.
Gina (08:20)
You
Yay.
Kathryn (08:29)
Tell the intro like you do. The rest of the story is just going to be me rambling. Okay, so imagine you're wandering through an old dusty bookstore in the heart of the New Mexico desert when you stumble upon a particularly peculiar book. This book contains a poem. It's a cryptic poem that promises riches and jewels and gems to whomever might be brave enough to conquer the wilderness of the Rocky Mountains.
Gina (08:35)
hahaha
Kathryn (08:59)
All you need to do is solve the riddle and you could win it all. In this story, you've accepted the challenge and for the next several years, you will sacrifice all material comforts and abandon each and every naysayer in your life who thinks you won't succeed against the thousands of other people who have chosen to accept the same quest as you. Your one and only, I know you are, I know. Your one and only mission.
Gina (09:23)
I'm fucking in. Sorry.
Kathryn (09:29)
is to brave the wild rivers and trek through dangerous terrain to beat out every other person who is determined to find Forrest Fenn's chest of hidden treasures.
Gina (09:40)
⁓ my.
Kathryn (09:42)
Yeah, okay, so who the fuck is Forrest Fenn? Let's start at the beginning. Fenn was born in 1930 in Temple, Texas, just south of Waco, which yes, we'll do an episode on Waco someday. Today is not that day. Very different story today. Anyway, Forrest was a middle child with an older brother and a younger sister. His mother was a homemaker.
Gina (09:43)
Ugh.
Yeah.
Hmm. Yeah.
Kathryn (10:09)
and his dad was the principal at his school, just like your everyday modest middle-class Americana family, you know? As he was growing up, some of his favorite memories were the summers that his family spent camping in Yellowstone National Park. He also developed a love for collecting things, any like cool little thing he could find while out playing with his friends.
Like they would dig up arrowheads and fossils and he collected marbles and bottle caps, just any little collectible trinket thing. Which like, hi, hello, I empathize. He would end up marrying his high school sweetheart, Peggy Jean Proctor, just cute as a button. Yes. And then he joined the Air Force. He did that for several years. And then after he retired from the Air Force, Air Force? What the fuck?
Gina (10:52)
Goodness.
Air Force.
Kathryn (11:02)
Air Force. He was not forced into the Air Force.
⁓ When he retired from the Air Force, he wasn't totally sure what he wanted to do, but he still had that deep love of collecting. He had a knack for finding valuable artifacts and just collectible things, especially where he lived in the Southwest. There's a lot of really rich, kind of diverse history down there because there's a lot of different cultures that influence that area. You have the Western
you know, cowboy vibes, you've got Native American history, a lot of Spanish and Mexican history, including the native Mexican history. So just a lot of like interesting artifacts to be found and collect. Not to mention he had been all over the world, like when he was in the Air Force, he was stationed in Asia, different parts of Europe, just basically all over the place. So
He found a way to continue collecting things throughout his time in the Air Force. So he ended up getting into art dealing because he had accumulated all of this kind of cool, rare stuff that he found to be really valuable. And he had just really honed in niche. Like he got really into Native American artifacts specifically, and he had a talent for spotting like what was valuable and what was a little more common.
Gina (12:04)
Hmm.
you
Kathryn (12:23)
So that would lead him to opening and co-owning an art gallery in Santa Fe where he eventually settled with his wife. And by that point, he had two daughters, Kelly and Zoe. He'd go on to do this for many years and his reputation in the art world just kind of kept growing and growing to the point where he became very wealthy and he had numerous celebrity clients and people that he would trade with and deal to.
One of the most common ones that was mentioned was Jackie Kennedy, which I thought was fun. They were like art world friends. Yeah, to the point where like she would stay in their guest house when she was like in town. Yeah, this guy was like a big deal. Yeah, yeah. So he lives this long, happy life, big shot art dealer, fancy home, perfect family, just like the epitome of the American dream back when it was like attainable. Then...
Gina (12:57)
Wow. my God.
That's so fucking cool, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kathryn (13:22)
in 1988 at the age of what would that be 58 I didn't do that
Yeah, 58.
he was diagnosed with lymphoma and he ended up beating the cancer, but it was enough of a scare and he was kind of at that age where he was starting to think about what he wanted his legacy to be. You know, he's got this great family, wonderful business.
Gina (13:28)
you
Kathryn (13:46)
big house, known and loved in the community, but he starts thinking what is missing? Like what haven't I done? What do I want to do before my time is up, whenever that comes? And that's when he decides he's going to write a book detailing his adventures over the years. But that's not all he's going to do. At the same time that he's writing this book, he's also continuing to collect these rare artifacts, gold coins, gems, jewelry, all this
random stuff that he can get his hand on.
So he's collecting all of this stuff worth over a million dollars, some say up to two million, and he puts it all in this bronze chest that he will eventually hide somewhere in the wilderness. Within this book that he's writing, there is a poem that he wrote that contains clues as to where to find this chest. And I'm going to read you part of the poem now. OK.
Gina (14:29)
Ugh.
Yay, okay.
Kathryn (14:43)
Begin it where warm waters halt and take it to the canyon down, not far but too far to walk, put in below the home of Brown. From there it's no place for the meek, the end is drying ever nigh. There'll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high. If you've been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down, your quest to cease. But Terry scant with marble gaze, I'm sorry, Marvel gaze.
just take the chest and go in peace. Love it. Absolutely obsessed. So are you imagining yourself like reading this on a scroll? Yeah, I know. Of course. Magnifying glass. So he finally finishes assembling this chest and writing this book that he self-publishes in 2010 with the title, The Thrill of the Chase.
Gina (15:15)
god.
Yes, a hundred. Yes. Yeah. And I have like the little Explorer hat on and stuff. Yeah. My vest with 5 million pockets.
The internet ruins everything
Kathryn (15:39)
He then sells the book to a local bookstore in Santa Fe thinking, cool, a couple of people will buy it, word about the treasure will get spread around town. I'll eventually help someone here in my community get like mildly rich. We can all have a good laugh over it and like move on with our lives. What this 80 something year old guy did not think to consider was how quickly things spread on the internet. Yes.
This is a Gina episode, but it's also a Kathryn episode because the internet's about to ruin everything. Yes. So the first place on the internet that this treasure story shows up is Forrest's blog because at the time he had an art blog that was also kind of just a personal blog. Yeah, exactly. So of course he's going to post an update on the fact that he wrote this book.
Gina (16:08)
yes! I love it! Yay!
Hell yeah.
Kathryn (16:30)
shares the information about where to buy it, you could potentially win some treasure, blah, blah, blah, So this was 2010. At this point, we're kind of in the later stages of transitioning to being chronically online. Not quite what it is today, but like people were living their lives online at this point. One of the most popular places to do that was in blogs and online forums, a lot of like online friendships and communities being built. Belt? What the F? Being built? Belt.
Gina (16:57)
D'alt.
Kathryn (17:00)
Yeah, just so many online friends. So
this blog post ends up in a treasure hunting community forum, which is like a whole category of people that exist. Bookmark that in your brain so you can look into them after this episode. And exactly. So the treasure hunting community goes nuts. Like this is something that is like peak experience for them. It's like...
Gina (17:11)
Those exist?
Okay, saved for later.
Kathryn (17:27)
a fun adventure just handed to them on a silver platter. The fact that this hunt exists is gold in and of itself pun intended. So thank you. That one was for you. So word is spreading, you know, people are sharing the link and blah, blah, blah, blah. All these people from the southwest region and like Rocky Mountain area are looking for this treasure.
Gina (17:36)
Excellent.
Kathryn (17:54)
All Forrest said, like when he announced that this was happening, is that the treasure was somewhere north of Santa Fe. So could be anywhere. There's a lot of stuff north of Santa Fe. Like we're in the Southwest. So ⁓ anyone in New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, like anywhere in that region, there's a big stretch of land where people were like, great, this is right in my backyard. I'll find it in no time.
Gina (18:06)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (18:23)
This is like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miles of land, like, relatively speaking, like that feels very close. Like, you know, the United States is a big country. So like, if you say North of Santa Fe, there's a lot of people in North of Santa Fe that felt very, it felt very realistic that they could find it, you know? So.
Gina (18:26)
you
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Fenn’s treasure gains momentum
Kathryn (18:44)
Forrest is delighted. This is exactly what he wanted. The exact people he wanted to reach had found his message. They were all reacting positively, sharing tips and tricks in these forums and just like having a blast. It was so much fun. Everyone was very excited. ⁓ Everyone was just trying to like work together to figure out what the poem meant, but still like be the one to like find the secret, you know? So the story spreads. Local news stations pick it up.
Gina (19:06)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (19:13)
once they pick it up, spreads to national news. Before you know it, it's 2013. Word has been out for about three years at this point. And all anyone is talking about is how some guy out West hid a bunch of treasure and it's yours for the taking. And I will say at this point, I remember this happening. This wasn't like everyone in the world was talking about it, but I remember hearing like a rumor of like treasure you could go find and like,
There were a couple nights where me and my friends, I was in Chicago at the time, we'd be drunkenly planning how to find this treasure that allegedly existed. It hit the mainstream. I am not a treasure hunter at all, and I was aware of it. So I didn't realize this whole story existed around it, but I was aware that this was happening. So it got pretty big. It got very popular.
Gina (19:50)
That's fun!
Yeah.
Kathryn (20:05)
So like I've said a couple of times, Forrest just continues like eating this up. He's so excited. He did a bunch of interviews. He was a guest on talk shows, both local and national. ⁓ He even joined a bunch of the forums and he would communicate directly with the treasure hunters. And he even ended up building like genuine friendships with a lot of them. Like he would communicate with them. They were like friends. They were like genuinely online friends. So.
Gina (20:29)
Aw, he sounds like a lovely
guy. ⁓
Kathryn (20:33)
Yeah, I mean, he seems great. Like he's just some random art guy from Texas. Like he was like having the time of his life. He just like, I think he couldn't believe how many people were invested in it. He really thought that this was going to be like a community wide thing. And he was just elated when it spread the way that it did. So people from every corner of the country.
Gina (20:39)
Yeah.
Mm.
The first casualty
Kathryn (20:55)
start traveling out to the Rockies searching for this treasure. Unfortunately, that includes people who had little to no wilderness survival skills, those that I'm going to call indoor people such as myself. we have our first treasure related tragedy is what I'm going to call it. Randy, I think it's BILO, B-I-L-
Gina (21:07)
⁓ shit.
Uhhh
Kathryn (21:22)
Y-E-U, by Lou, by Lo. He was a 54-year-old man from Colorado and he was, I will say out of fairness, I'm not saying that he was one of like the indoor people, but just like there was a huge volume of people out there and I think not everyone was prepared for how dangerous that region can be. So...
That was a weird transition. I just want to say, I'm not saying anyone deserved anything if they were indoor people, but I don't know if this guy was. He just was the first one that something terrible happened to. So he had purchased a raft and planned to follow the Rio Grande in search of the treasure. The last his family heard from him was on January 5th of that year, so 2016.
Gina (21:56)
you
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (22:18)
And when his family didn't hear from him again for up to 10 days, I think they said it was, they contacted authorities to send a search party for him and his little dog, Leo.
Gina (22:30)
⁓ no.
Kathryn (22:32)
After a very short search, ⁓ and I will say, just in case anyone's like, what the fuck, 10 days, this is a very remote region. So it's not weird that he could have lost cell service. You know what I mean? It wasn't just they were like, he's probably fine. It got to the point where it was like, OK, he should have reached a spot where we would be able to hear from him by now. So just so no one's like, what the fuck.
Gina (22:59)
Yeah.
Kathryn (23:01)
After very short search in the helicopter, the rescue team spotted Randy's raft upside down on a bank along the river and curled up next to the raft just a few feet away was Leo the dog, who was very scared and very hungry, but also alive. Sadly, I know, I know. Sadly, there was no sign of Randy though, but eventually his body was found.
Gina (23:17)
Okay, thank God.
Kathryn (23:25)
but it was in a state that prevented them from being able to determine conclusively what exactly had happened to him. yeah, they're not, mean, it was like a, likely had been, you know, in danger of some sort starting from the last time they heard from him. like 10 days had passed. That's like kind of a, that's like a long time for them to be able to tell exactly.
Gina (23:36)
you
Mmm, yeah. Yeah.
Kathryn (23:55)
He was
known to have very high blood pressure, so it's possible that there was a medical emergency and he just wasn't close enough to civilization to get help in time. But unfortunately, we will never know. It could have been an accident with a raft or whatever, but there's not any way of us knowing. this is, of course, a tragedy, particularly for his family.
the treasure hunting community was also super broken up about it. This was like very much a, like he's one of us, you know, he's one of our own. like, this really wasn't something that people were anticipating. Again, this was like really fun and exciting and everyone was super, you know, ready to go and go on this fun adventure. And like, you don't really think, it's very much like this, you don't think this would happen to you. You know what I mean? So.
Gina (24:30)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kathryn (24:48)
Forrest, of course, made a statement giving his condolences, but people were kind of like a little, they were kind of pointing their fingers at him a little bit, not like super aggressively, but they were like, okay, he died while looking for your treasure. Like you could have a little bit more to say on it. ⁓ They kind of wanted him to, I don't want to say take accountability, but like they were a little, it felt very, to them, felt very,
Gina (25:06)
okay. Yeah.
Kathryn (25:15)
PR, like I have to issue a statement, so here I go. Which like probably, that probably is what it was, like I mean that's kind of a difficult spot to be in, you know what I mean? Like you would want to have something kind of scripted out. regardless, like hunt continues, everyone kind of, I don't want to say moves on, because like that is a horrible tragedy, but like people are still looking for this treasure at this point. And then the following year, tragedy strikes again.
Gina (25:19)
Mmm.
The tragedies of Fenn’s treasure
Kathryn (25:43)
53 year old man named Jeff Murphy traveled from Batavia, Illinois to Yellowstone. Yeah, so literally everywhere in America people were like coming out. Yeah, exactly. So he travels out to Yellowstone in search of this treasure. He was out there for a while. I don't know how long he had been out there, but he was, you know, hunting around, doing okay. And then same deal, a period of time passed.
Gina (25:48)
⁓
Wow.
Kathryn (26:11)
between when the last time his wife heard from him and she didn't hear from him for a while. So she reported him missing. Authorities found him at the bottom of a 500 foot drop. So was very clear that he had like lost his way or, you know, had gotten off track or something and either something happened or he was disoriented and he ended up falling and he did die from the fall. That same week,
Gina (26:24)
Ooh.
God.
Kathryn (26:39)
a pastor named Paris Wallace failed to show up to a family gathering. So his family reported him missing right away because I'm not sure if they knew that he was even planning on going out for the treasure. I could be wrong on that. And that's like, do like disclaimer, I'm pretty sure that's what I remember. Like,
Gina (26:54)
that's dangerous.
Kathryn (27:04)
researching a long time ago, but I couldn't find a source to confirm that. just, it was in my notes from like way back when, so it was like months and months and months ago where I was like, I have to find a flavor for us to do this story in. So I don't know for sure, don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure they didn't know that he was going out to look for the treasure. And.
Gina (27:18)
Yeah, okay.
Kathryn (27:28)
to like kind of back that up a little bit, it very much felt, I'll explain in a little bit why, but it very much felt like he kind of had the attitude of like, I'm just gonna pop down to the river real quick and like search for it for a little bit and then I'll be home in time for dinner. Like that was kind of the vibe because authorities found his car near the river, near the Rio Grande and inside the car they found receipts.
Gina (27:44)
Yeah.
Kathryn (27:54)
showing that he purchased rope and other kind of wildernessy type supplies at the local store just very recently. It was like a day or two prior. And then nearby, they found a torn rope leading down to the river where his body was found like five-ish miles downstream. So it was like he literally ran to the store, got supplies, and then like went out hunting for this treasure, which is like a very, I want to say like,
Gina (28:11)
god.
Kathryn (28:21)
quick turnaround, like that was kind of the vibe. People, was so commonly talked about and people were so, especially in the area were so invested in it that people kind of got the false sense of how easy it would be to locate it and how easy it is for that terrain to navigate.
Then the following month, a 31-year-old man from Colorado was also reported missing. He had just moved to Colorado the previous year in hopes of finding the treasure. Like, he straight up quit his job, left home to find this treasure, and his, like, he ended up going missing. I don't remember where he moved there from. I want to say Florida, but I think that might have been a different story. But it was somewhere.
Gina (28:57)
you
Mmm.
Kathryn (29:09)
elsewhere. Like he was not super familiar with that area, I guess I'll say. It took them six months to find him. And then that January in 2018, they did find him and he had also been rafting, but he was rafting down the Arkansas River. So kind of same vibe. A lot of people were trying to just carry themselves down various rivers, because that's where the poem starts. It starts with, you know,
Gina (29:34)
Yeah.
Kathryn (29:36)
the rushing waters or however it's phrased. So there were a lot of like river related tragedies. ⁓ Again, Forrest made statements on all of these losses, offering his condolences to the families and like the pastors parish and all their communities, et cetera, et cetera. people, the more lives that were lost and the more like bad things kind of happened, people kept zeroing in on him. And it kind of got to the point where people were
Gina (29:58)
you
Kathryn (30:05)
demanding that he call off the hunt because it was getting kind of increasingly, I don't want to, let me rephrase. It seemed like it was getting increasingly more dangerous. As devil's advocate, I will say that is a lot of deaths in one year, but that's also the year that a lot of more people were coming out to look for it. You know what I mean? So it wasn't just like,
Gina (30:29)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (30:31)
the same number of people are looking and just all of sudden these people start dying. was like, at this point there were tens of thousands of people out searching for this treasure. You know what I mean? So it was like, was kind of, ⁓ it was just weird. It went from this fun, exciting, local community, regional, Rocky Mountain thing to like this international mystery or whatever.
Gina (30:43)
Yeah.
Community response
Kathryn (31:01)
So Forrest maintained exactly that. Like was just supposed to be some cute, fun thing to bid the world farewell when he thought he was going to die of cancer, basically. Like not to cheapen it, but that really was how he approached it and how this whole thing was born. And his stance was whatever people decided to do with his book and his poem was their responsibility.
Gina (31:01)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (31:24)
it's also noteworthy that there was like a whole other faction of people who were adamant that he not call off the hunt because they felt that if he called it off then, then-
A, it just wouldn't be fair to the people who are still looking, but also they were arguing that these people would have died in vain because then the treasure would just never have been found and it would have been, I hate saying this, I don't know a better way to say it, but it would have been kind of like a waste. ⁓ Like there were a whole lot of people that very much felt like finding the treasure would like honor the people who had died and just make it a little bit more.
Gina (31:47)
Yeah.
Kathryn (32:08)
I know, bring comfort to the community that like, yes, this is a real thing and something that was actually able to be conquered.
Because once the, once the story hit the news and it grew to be discussed on like an everyday basis, it really felt more attainable than it was.
And one of the things that were kind of leading people to calling him to call off the search was some people were really bothered by how blase Forrest kind of seemed about the whole thing, not about the deaths, but he was, he really seemed like he was kind of eating up the attention. Like he accepted every interview offer. He, you know, was in all of these forums and he just was like having so much fun with it.
Gina (32:44)
Hmm.
Kathryn (32:52)
Whereas a lot of people were viewing it as like, hey, this is like a very dangerous thing and we need to give like a disclaimer for it. You know, there are people who are not experienced treasure hunters like we are that are like actually not safe. ⁓ it was just kind of like a split audience, I guess. It just got out of hand. Like it just like went from zero to 60.
slowly at first, but then like real fast out of to inject my own opinion, I genuinely don't think he understood exactly how big it got. I think that he, because he had these personal ⁓ relationships with so many of the treasure hunters, I think that's like as far as his perspective was. Like I think that he genuinely thought...
Like this was within the treasure hunting community and the collectible and artifact people community. I don't think he realized just how many everyday people were sitting in Chicago at a bar with their friends talking and joking about going out to find this treasure. And you know what I mean? Like, I don't think he could fully understand how widely it spread. There is a Netflix documentary on
Gina (33:52)
Yeah.
Kathryn (34:06)
this topic that I just loved. It's called, I think it's called Gold and Greed. And one of the stories they follow, just to kind of paint a picture of how crazy invested people got into finding this treasure. This one story was about a man and his sons who I tried to find their names. I can't believe I couldn't find it. I'll pop them into the YouTube video when I find them. I didn't have time to rewatch the documentary for this episode, so I tried to just like...
figure out who they were in Netflix and I just, there's just too many people in this documentary so I couldn't figure out which ones they were. Anyway, family was like determined to find this treasure and they spent years looking for this thing. I don't remember exactly which state they were in but I think they were in like the Rocky Mountain region and they spent years and years and years hunting and eventually they came upon this boulder.
Gina (34:40)
Mm.
Kathryn (35:02)
this giant ass rock and they were just determined, they were absolutely positive that this treasure was buried underneath this rock. So they dug and dug and dug around this giant ass rock. They got everyone involved, like community members. At one point there were just dozens of people digging for this thing. They spent two years digging, not two years searching, two years digging. Yes.
Gina (35:27)
Two years dig- I mean, when do you say, you know
what guys, I think we got the wrong rock? Did they get the right rock? Okay.
Kathryn (35:35)
No.
There was, I don't even know if there was a rock. Like they just like had decided that this was where it was. It literally got to the point, like he even says in the interview that like his wife was like, if you don't stop digging, I'm gonna leave you. Like it was so, I don't know what ended up happening with that. I don't know. It was not mentioned, but she was not being interviewed in the documentary. So hope they're okay now. But.
Gina (35:40)
Okay. This is the one.
my god.
Kathryn (36:02)
they were just that obsessed with it and they were that determined find it.
Gina (36:05)
Yeah.
The quest continues as tensions rise
Kathryn (36:08)
What a couple of things. One, it was never explicitly stated that the treasure was buried. A lot of people just made that association because you think I'm gonna go search for buried treasure. But it was never said in the poem that it was a buried treasure.
Gina (36:16)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Kathryn (36:24)
the, again, yeah, the treasure was of course not there, but to this day and within this Netflix documentary, these men are like determined to prove that they had actually found the right spot. And like, they were, ⁓ I don't know if they ever explicitly used the term hoax, but they,
basically came to the conclusion that they were so sure that this was the right spot, that this couldn't have possibly have been real. And they started basically suggesting that the treasure was never there in the first place. But they're not the only ones who have that ⁓ opinion slash whatever you want to call it. This rumor.
had kind of started spreading amongst people who had similar experience to these men. Like they were so certain that they were in the exact right spot. And when they didn't find anything, they were like, well, what the fuck? Is this just some giant prank? And what I want to address with this is if you look at the map of the Rocky Mountains, there are so many rivers and so many hills and mountains and like,
very similar looking terrain and there are so many people who live in that area who are absolutely convinced that they know the area like the back of their hand. So if something in this poem matched what they've seen in their everyday life, so many people were like, I got it. I know exactly where it is. Not fully realizing there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miles of terrain that looks exactly like what is right in their backyard. So
So many people were approaching this like, all right, I got it, no problem, in the bag, when really they're like a thousand miles off course, you know what I mean? So that grew the rumor that this wasn't actually real. And a lot of people just approached it like this is a prank or this is a rumor or whatever. A lot of people got in trouble during this search. People kind of started to...
Gina (38:20)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (38:38)
feel like they had kind of ownership of this treasure.
Couple of examples, a man whose name I don't think was released. He was arrested in New Mexico and he was charged for damaging a cultural artifact near the Pecos River while he was, I think he was digging around looking for the treasure. Lots of digging. Again, so many people were in trouble for digging. For example, a couple by the names of Daryl Seller and Chrissy Strong were caught by park rangers digging in Yellowstone and they were accused of camping without a permit and starting fires.
I think just like campfires, but also like not something you can do without a permit or like in protected land. This is, yeah, don't worry. I won't get on the protected land ⁓ hilltop this time, but go check out Pele's Curse if you're interested in my thoughts on that. So another one was Scott Conway. He's given a citation by New Mexico State Parks officers for digging a very large hole in state land near Heron Lake. And this thing was ginormous. I mean, this was like,
Gina (39:11)
Ooh. Okay. No. Not something that's okay. Yeah.
Kathryn (39:39)
It literally looks like he was just trying to like dig up the whole desert and that was like the way he was going to find it. Like that was the plan. Truly. So there were so many more instances of this. This is kind of just an overview of the vibe around this treasure. Like everyone was so certain that they had the secret, like digging up an entire desert for no reason. Like everyone was the smart one that was going to figure it out. ⁓
Gina (39:44)
That was the plan. I mean, process of elimination, sure.
Kathryn (40:10)
It got so bad that people started getting really aggressive toward Forrest and other hunters ⁓ and Forrest's family. People started stalking him and threatening him because they were so frustrated. Yes, because they were frustrated that they couldn't find it. ⁓ One man tried to sue him because he was one of the people that believed that there was no treasure to be found at all. So he opened a civil suit against him, ⁓ alleging that Forrest had made false claims.
Gina (40:16)
God.
my God!
Kathryn (40:40)
Like, what the fuck? Yeah, so the case was dismissed, but like, yeah.
Gina (40:43)
What? would be-
I would be so- if that's how the treasure hunt ends because he's forced in court to show them where it is, that'd be fucking lame. It'd be so upsetting.
Kathryn (40:52)
Wouldn't that be so upsetting? my God, talk about...
⁓ That would be so frustrating. Yeah, it doesn't. Yeah, I will just to give you peace.
Gina (41:01)
I mean, like, okay,
okay, cool, cool. Was no one saying like maybe somebody already found it and they just weren't vocal about it?
Kathryn (41:09)
No, no one was suggesting that. Well, yeah, that's a good question. The reason that wasn't a theory is because he ⁓ would have announced that it had been found because otherwise people would just keep searching forever and that would be annoying. You know what I mean? So he did say he would share when it was found.
Gina (41:10)
So it was just like, if I don't, if I'm not a special person that finds it, it can't exist.
Mm, okay, okay.
Yeah.
Kathryn (41:36)
So it was still out there. The hunt was still on. It had not been found. That was, well, I don't want to say that was known for sure, because I'm sure there were people who were like, that wasn't like a big theory, but I'm sure people felt that or thought that or like suspected that he had lied and didn't tell us that it was found or whatever. That wasn't like a big theory, but yes, I'm certain people did think that. So.
Gina (41:49)
Hmm.
Okay.
Kathryn (42:01)
Like I said, he was starting to get threats. His family was getting threats, but they didn't really, I don't want to say they didn't take it seriously, but they kind of brushed it off. You know, they've got money, they've got security. they aren't, again, they're not really seeing how out of control this is getting. So they didn't really like worry too much about it. His family was starting to get a little, are you sure you want to continue doing this? But nothing to the point of like danger. You know what I mean? Like, or so they thought.
Gina (42:28)
Okay.
The family’s breaking point
Kathryn (42:31)
At one point, I think it was in 2018, a man was caught breaking into his guest house, the one that our friend Jackie O would stay in, and he was seen leaving the house with a Spanish style chest that he believed was the actual chest of treasure. Forrest, talk about... Okay, buckle up for these Texas vibes.
Gina (42:38)
my god. Ugh.
Kathryn (42:58)
Forrest's daughter held the guy at gunpoint until authorities arrived and he was brought into custody. Yes. And I think Forrest and perhaps another family was there too. So we've got like these four Fen family members just like put them up until like the cops show up. Yeah. Yes. And she's in the documentary. Like she's telling this story. And like you see, I believe you see ⁓ where they called chest cam.
Gina (43:03)
Yup. Yup. Yup, yup, yup, yup, yup.
Wow. Stay right where you are.
Hell yeah.
Kathryn (43:27)
footage for when the cops show up and like you can see her like holding this guy. It was later revealed, right, it was. It was later revealed that the chest simply contained linens and guest towels. It was like a piece of furniture in their guest house. Yeah. Isn't that the most like American West like cowboy cartoon?
Gina (43:28)
yeah!
So Texas.
Yes.
Kathryn (43:52)
fucking bullshit you've ever heard. Like, this guy's held at gunpoint because he's carrying a box of linens. What the fuck? Seriously. Yep. So it was at this point that Forrest's family is like, okay, what the fuck, dude? This has officially gone too far. Like, your family's not safe now. People are going crazy. You need to do something about this.
Gina (43:54)
Yes! ⁓
Tablecloths. ⁓ That's so fucking funny.
Kathryn (44:20)
he at this point is feeling like he's kind of caught between a rock and a hard place because he maintained that calling off the treasure hunt would be unfair. And he still felt the same way he did before about like, like that, that just wouldn't be fair. And these people's deaths would be in vain, but like to add onto that, he also kind of ran the risk of like, he didn't call off the hunt when people died and now his family is affected.
Gina (44:38)
Mm.
Yeah.
Kathryn (44:51)
So like,
that's kind of a bad look. And it's like, on the one hand, it's like, fuck them, family first, blah, blah. But on the other hand, like, this was his legacy. This was supposed to be his like, last final memory. Like, he's taking this very seriously. And it's just, it's gotten completely out of his control. So he's feeling a little lost. Then, shortly thereafter, I think it was early 2019,
Forrest received an email from one of the treasure hunters asking for Forrest's granddaughter's hand in marriage. And I will say this was an adult granddaughter, but still ew So it's not ew for real bad reasons, just still ew and weird and we don't like it. Forrest is like, what the fuck? doesn't even know, like, I don't wanna say brushes it off, but it's kind of like, okay, I've gotten a lot of weird things, like I don't know how to handle this.
Gina (45:24)
Ooh.
Still weird.
Kathryn (45:44)
Very shortly thereafter, he starts getting kind of more, I'm gonna say increasingly unhinged emails from this guy indicating that he believes Fen's treasure isn't a chest at all, but actually the chest is a red herring and the real treasure that he wants everyone to find is his granddaughter.
Gina (46:08)
mean, that's fun, but I don't think ⁓ I like that. Yeah.
Kathryn (46:15)
Super creepy and not
correct and not what Fen intended at all. This man was absolutely sick. Like, yes. No, I know. I realized, no, I realized the way I said that that you, I forgot the theme of this month for a second. And just so you are well aware, that is not what Fen intended this treasure hunt to be at all. No, I would not have been mildly defending this guy throughout this episode.
Gina (46:21)
Yeah, okay. Thank god because I was so worried that you were gonna be like he was right
You
Good, thank God.
you
Kathryn (46:43)
That's what it was.
I literally, heard myself say it out loud and I was like, wait, that's not, no, not at all. So yes, this man was mentally unstable and this is not like this, again, this is how crazy people were getting. They were like, we can't find it. What else could it be? This was when people were like starting to be like, maybe there was no treasure at all. Like, blah, blah, blah. You know, like that's what this was. So this guy gets arrested and is charged for stalking his granddaughter and
Gina (47:01)
Hmm.
Fenn’s treasure is conveniently found
Kathryn (47:14)
Coincidentally, very shortly thereafter, the treasure is suddenly found.
Gina (47:21)
⁓ what good timing.
Kathryn (47:23)
Yes,
what good timing indeed. So in the summer of 2020, I don't remember exactly when it was early summer, I think like early June or something, Forrest wrote the following in one of the treasure hunting forums. Quote, the treasure has been found. It was under a canopy of stars in the lush forested vegetation of the Rocky Mountains and had not moved from the spot where I hid it more than 10 years ago.
I do not know the name of the person who found it, but the poem in my book led them to the precise spot. He would later say in an interview with a local paper that the man had been confirmed with a photo and they like, you know, he had his people or whatever. had someone like send it in to confirm that he, oh, sorry, Cinnamon just like flew in the room and I thought she was already in here. So she just like scared the shit out of me. Sorry. Okay. So.
had someone send in a photo of this treasure confirming he found it, but he wanted to remain anonymous for obvious reasons. Same reason like a lottery winner would want to stay anonymous. You know what mean?
Gina (48:29)
Yeah.
I get that.
Kathryn (48:32)
But a lot of people did not get it and they did not take the news well at all. Particularly those deep in the treasure hunting community who had built personal connections and personal relationships with him and considered him a very close friend because there were a lot of people, a couple of whom are in this Netflix documentary ⁓ because, but like I'm not gonna name them because I'm a little scared of them because they seem very intense.
they genuinely thought that he had been like giving them extra clues and like they were a shoe in because they were friends and they know him and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And maybe, well, and even if it was like maybe that was happening and they just still didn't find it as fat. Like maybe this guy is also one of those, you know what I mean? Like they just don't know. Exactly, exactly. So people felt betrayed by Forrest and this whole situation.
Gina (49:10)
Treasure Hunts work.
Yeah, like, who finds it keeps it.
Kathryn (49:31)
because people had gotten so deeply physically and emotionally and spiritually invested in this hunt. And then all of a sudden it just wasn't there anymore. It was just over. it was like their lives like had no meaning all of a sudden, like not to be dramatic, but this was the genuine reaction to it. Like, what the fuck am I supposed to do now? Like I've quit my job. I moved out West. You know, we had a relationship like what, like what the fuck now, you know?
So people were mad and the more time passed, the more people were trying to explain away this new hole in their lives. And that's when all these theories started like really coming forward. Like people just could not accept that it had been found. One theory was just simply what it was. It had been found, it is what it is, we lost, whatever. Another theory was that what I am...
guessing happened is Fen was feeling the heat because the hunters were starting to get frustrated and things were getting dangerous and his family was now in danger. So he either gave extra clues to someone or just straight up hired someone to find it or like chose someone and was like or like had someone choose someone so that he really didn't know. ⁓ You know, like something like that. The other theory is just the treasure was never there in the first place and
Gina (50:44)
That's a good point. Yeah.
Yeah.
something.
Kathryn (50:59)
it wasn't fun anymore and was like, okay, now I have to like wrap up this fake story. ⁓ I do not believe that one. And there is evidence that it's not true ⁓ because the name of the man who found it.
Gina (51:06)
Me neither.
Kathryn (51:13)
did eventually get released. His name was Jack Stuif or Stuff. I don't know how to pronounce it. He was a 32 year old medical student from Michigan at the time. Why did we learn his name? Because several, people filed lawsuits. Well, no, just yes, you're correct. Several people filed lawsuits against both Forrest and Jack claiming this is the part that fucks me up.
Gina (51:25)
did he get sued? ⁓ sorry. my god.
Kathryn (51:40)
claiming that the treasure was rightfully theirs for various reasons. And yeah, they needed his name. The courts needed his name for legal proceedings. So that's the only reason the name eventually came out was because all these people were suing for this treasure. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Yes. That is the entire whimsy. Yes. Yeah.
Gina (51:44)
What?
Have fun!
That's lame. That's anti-whimsy. those people... No. That's very anti-whimsy.
That's boring. That's very late stage capitalist treasure hunt energy. I don't like that.
Kathryn (52:12)
Mm hmm. Well, and that's the
other thing. A lot of people were I didn't I didn't really address this because it's kind of like you can kind of tell from the story. But a lot of people were mad that some like fucking rich ass white guy was like toying with people's emotions by hiding treasure. Like there is a metaphor in there. And I do understand that there is a part of me. I will say there is a part of me watching this documentary that I'm like, I imagine he and I would not enjoy a political conversation with each other.
Gina (52:27)
That's fair. I get that. Yeah.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (52:42)
But within the confines of this story feels magical, right? Like, I'm just going to say that. But yeah, mean, the discussion around it when it was being found, like shortly thereafter, like after it was found late 2020, early 2021, was there ever really a treasure? Was this a real treasure hunt? The answer to that is yes.
Gina (52:45)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Kathryn (53:08)
This was a very real treasure hunt to all of those who were hunting for this treasure and to the people who lost their lives and the families affected by both the deaths and also people just going crazy and like abandoning their families to go find this treasure. This was a very real thing that happened. But was it ever realistic that anyone would ever actually have a real shot at finding this treasure? Was it there in the first place?
Did anyone who didn't know Forrest personally ever actually have a shot? None of that we will ever know because Forrest Fenn died in September of 2020, just a couple months after the treasure was found. Yeah. So that adds a layer of, was he sick? Again, did he know? Did he just want to see someone find this treasure?
Gina (53:46)
⁓ wow! Okay, damn.
Yeah.
Kathryn (54:01)
And chose someone or someone chose for him or, you know, that like added more to the story and more to the question mark. No one really knew. No one knew what they had actually been doing for the last 10 years, you know, because there were just so many question marks and the reality that so many people were living in searching for this treasure kind of wasn't there anymore, you know, but.
Gina (54:15)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
The legacy of Fenn’s treasure
Kathryn (54:30)
There is still a chance that his legacy might live on. So one of the interviewees of this Netflix documentary that I mentioned a couple of times at this point is a man named Justin Posey. Justin was one of the hunters that had been looking for Fenn's treasure. And once the location had been revealed, he was just like gutted because he got so close. He was like,
at that spot,
but like a few yards away. Like he was there. So he was very, very close. He could not shake how close he had gotten. This is like a regret of his, you know? Like he was so very, he could taste it. So he felt very, he felt like a, not to like speak for him, but he felt almost like a kindred ship to for his family. Very similar, intercollectibles, love solving puzzles and huntings and all of these things.
Gina (55:03)
⁓ shit.
Kathryn (55:28)
He was just so excited that he had gotten so close, even though it was kind of eating him alive, he was like, he could taste it. So he thought about it and he decided, hey, how do we spin this in a positive way? Yes, there was a lot of drama with the situation, but for 10 years, the treasure hunting community was alive. Like it was just buzzing. It was so exciting. Everyone loved this experience. So if you watch this documentary,
And if you pay attention to his interviews in this documentary, there are clues that will guide you to where he has hidden a chest of treasures.
Gina (56:04)
What?
Kathryn (56:11)
some of which, some of the treasures came from Fenn's treasure chest, graciously donated by Jack, the man who found Fenn's treasure. I don't know if it was donated or if he bought them off the guy, but some of the original treasure is in this chest. So if you're feeling adventurous, tune into that documentary, hashtag not sponsored. I've mentioned this many times. We are not absolutely not sponsored by Netflix and will never be, but it's a great documentary. If you're feeling adventurous, tune in.
Gina (56:24)
Yeah, but whatever.
Yeah.
Kathryn (56:42)
Perhaps the hunt is not over.
Gina (56:44)
What did you say the documentary's called?
Kathryn (56:46)
I knew you'd love that.
out remember I think Gold and Greed. Gold and Greed literally if you search Fenn's treasure or Fenn something it'll pop up it there's like a tagline about his treasure so but I think it's Gold and Greed yeah it'll probably pop up for you now that we're talking about it.
Gina (56:51)
Gold and green, okay, that sounds familiar, okay.
Okay.
⁓ I'm fucking watching that. my god, yay! I feel like you just gave
me a gift by telling me the hunt is still on. That's amazing.
Kathryn (57:10)
I You know what's
so funny is I love nothing about treasure hunting. I don't like puzzles. I don't like being lost. I don't like getting dirty for too long. I don't like being outside for extended periods of time. I like nothing about what is treasure hunting. But watching this documentary, I was like, I could find it. I could try. I could try. Yeah.
Gina (57:34)
We can do it.
We could go camping together and that can be our camping experience in the actual wilderness.
Kathryn (57:41)
We could.
We could. We definitely could do that, yes. Or I could drop you off and go stay at a motel.
Gina (57:45)
Bye!
Either way, I think we'll both have a great time.
Kathryn (57:55)
I think so.
Gina (57:56)
That's exactly what I needed today. Thank you for that story.
Kathryn (57:59)
You're welcome.
You're welcome. Do you want to bring some spooky vibes for me? Because I brought none. There's nothing spooky about that episode.
Scary on top
Gina (58:04)
Yes, yes, okay. Well, luckily for you, I have two spooky vibes because we have two scarys on top. We have two listener stories.
Kathryn (58:12)
yay!
Gina (58:16)
You ready to be spooked?
Kathryn (58:17)
I'm ready to be stooked.
Gina (58:19)
So both of the following stories come from Friends of the Pod, Tea Tales, and Talks. So check them out if you haven't already.
Kathryn (58:25)
yes, yes, yes.
Yeah.
Gina (58:28)
they are amazing. So without further ado, I'm gonna tell you the first story, which is titled Lady in White. Yes, I know you love a lady in white. Okay, when I was young, I used to see ghosts quite often. I believe children and adolescents are much more open and receptive to those kinds of things, which we have talked about on the pod before, completely true.
Kathryn (58:35)
Whoo!
Yes.
True. 100%.
Gina (58:51)
That being said, most of the things I would see happen... Nope, that's not what it says. Sorry.
Kathryn (58:59)
This is fiction! We are a fiction podcast now!
Gina (59:01)
And then the dragon came. ⁓
Kathryn (59:08)
Wait,
if you have a story about a dragon, iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com send it to us.
Gina (59:14)
my god, absolutely,
or a worm, like a W-Y-R-M. Not like a gross
Kathryn (59:23)
I was like, sure, there could be spooky worms. ⁓ my god.
Gina (59:27)
I appreciate the willingness to support
me anyway. That's funny. Just like, girl. would. Okay, actually, if you do have a story about a spooky W-O-R-M, send that to me. Okay, sorry. Back to the story. That being said, most of the things I would see happened to be at night. One night when I was probably around nine or 10,
Kathryn (59:32)
I could imagine there being a spooky worm. my god. Anyway.
Hahaha
Anyway, anyway, okay, yes yes yes.
Gina (59:55)
I woke up in the middle of the night as I often did and turned over to face my bedroom door. Now I know I was probably sleepy and some may say it was a dream, but I saw a woman standing beside the door. From what I remember, she was angled away from me, but sort of doing the thing where she was looking over her shoulder. She wasn't aware of me, but I became hyper aware of her presence.
She was wearing an old timey floor length white dress, white lady, that had a high collar and some ruffles at the shoulders. And her hair was in a high bun. Yeah, so almost like Victorian vibes is what I'm getting from this. Yeah, same. Yeah.
Kathryn (1:00:35)
is what I was imagining. the yeah, I feel like that's such
a vibe for a lady in white, like the Victorian or Edwardian kind of area. Area. Era. Yeah.
Gina (1:00:41)
God,
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, totally agree. ⁓ I didn't feel frightened or that she was any kind of negative entity, but being a child and suddenly seeing another person in my room at night startled me. So I shut my eyes tight and eventually fell asleep. Now you may be wondering how I could remember this after all these years. Well, it's because usually when I would see ghosts or spirits,
They would appear kind of grayish or more so like a light figure. But this apparition appeared to me in full color. I could see the color of her pale skin and her dark brown hair. It may have only been for a couple seconds, but the image has stayed with me since.
Kathryn (1:01:20)
Mmm.
That's interesting. That's different. Yeah, me either.
Gina (1:01:31)
Mm-hmm the full color p. I had never thought about that. Yeah, I wonder what
that like represents or means
Kathryn (1:01:37)
Hmm, I never really thought of seeing spirits differently than, like if you see them enough, you're used to a specific thing. Like if you have certain expectations, I never really considered if they.
Gina (1:01:48)
Yeah.
Kathryn (1:01:50)
show up differently if that means something or I wonder, okay, now I'm jumping down a rabbit hole. Now I wonder if one is like, these are spirits and then another is like, okay, now you're jumping timelines or something like that. I wonder if they look different depending on, yeah, I never thought of that before. That is interesting. Cool.
Gina (1:01:53)
I don't know. I want to look into...
⁓ yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, okay, so the second one is titled toilet ghost a Short but odd one one time when I was a teenager I was getting ready in the bathroom doing my hair and makeup I remember I just used the toilet and flushed and then a couple of minutes later I went to throw some tissue into the toilet after wiping my makeup something like that and the toilet lid was closed
Kathryn (1:02:15)
Excellent. Excellent.
Gina (1:02:39)
I didn't remember closing it after I used it, but I thought, okay, I just didn't remember closing it, whatever. I opened it back up and threw something in. A couple of minutes after that, I turned back around to throw something else out and the lid was closed again. And that time I remembered for sure I hadn't closed it. It didn't happen a third time, LOL, probably because I was so aware of it and waiting for it to happen again. And that was the only time that had ever happened.
But there was another time that I went to use the bathroom in the middle of the night and bumped into one of the vanity drawers being open. One that I for sure didn't open because I rarely used it. So perhaps I had a little bathroom ghost for a while. Creepy, but more so inconvenient.
Kathryn (1:03:28)
Okay, so my initial theory was there is some type of ghost that was like, put the seat down, blah, blah, blah, blah, know, but that doesn't match opening the drawer. know what I mean? I feel like that energy wouldn't like.
Gina (1:03:34)
I ⁓
It could be
two separate, like maybe it's like the ghost that's like shut the lid, close the doors, and then the other ghost is like, ha ha, I opened shit and I'm mischievous. And they're, they butt heads.
Kathryn (1:03:45)
True.
Yeah, like the ghost was frustrated with her
because it's so used to the other ghost leaving it open and the other ghost was... Me too. I'm imagining like on the other side them seeing her bump into it and the mom being like, see, this is why you got to close, brr, brr, brr, brr, brr. Yeah, exactly. This is why you don't leave them open.
Gina (1:03:56)
Yeah.
I'm picturing like a mom ghost and a kid ghost.
This is you don't it.
I love them as genius ghosts. Those are my favorite variety.
Kathryn (1:04:16)
Yeah.
Gina (1:04:17)
And that's the scary end.
Kathryn (1:04:16)
Well, those are fun. Wow, they have
some, like, they've got, like, a lot of stories.
Gina (1:04:22)
I know, I know. Yeah. So thank you so much for sending that in. If anyone listening has a story that they would like to share, feel free to send it over to iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com because we love reading your stories. And just a reminder, it doesn't have to be on theme for the month. It can be any kind of paranormal, creepy story you have, even if it's not paranormal or creepy. Just tell us how you're doing. Just tell us a story. We'll enjoy it. I guarantee it. But yeah.
Kathryn (1:04:39)
Yeah, not at all.
Yeah.
Gina (1:04:50)
Well, I think that is all we have for you today. So until next time, little spoons, keep it cool.
Kathryn (1:04:56)
and keep it creepy.
