Ep. 39: The Spaniards Inn
Kathryn (00:10)
Hello, welcome to Ice Cream You Scream. I'm Kathryn.
Gina (00:14)
I'm Gina.
Kathryn (00:15)
For the month of July, we're telling stories about bars while we have boozy ice cream drinks as per the rules. There's no other thing we could do this month. As a reminder, we did accidentally curse ourselves. Whoops, not our fault, but you can help us lift our curse by sharing a link to this podcast with a friend or family member or whoever you want or giving us a five-star rating. We would very, very, very greatly appreciate hearing.
Gina (00:26)
You
Kathryn (00:44)
how you guys are enjoying the podcast so far. So grab a spoon or drink or whatever and let's dig in. Cheers.
Gina (00:52)
Cheers. I feel like I need a drink today. For no reason, I just really want one.
Kathryn (00:56)
I totally need a drink today. It's such a weird
day. Also, this bubbly is completely flat. And I don't understand why. Because I got those individual ones, those little individual bottles so that I could just use one per, well, I thought so too, but apparently not because this tastes like garbage. My last two are great. It is cold. Yeah, let me rephrase. It's not, it doesn't taste like garbage.
Gina (01:02)
⁓
smart.
Is it cold at least because of the sorbet? Sherbert?
Kathryn (01:25)
texture is just weirding me out. There needs to be bubbles. It's better with bubbles. You know?
Gina (01:29)
Mmm.
Who's the purveyor
of these mini flat... bubblies? Who made this garbage?
Kathryn (01:37)
like the cheapest bottles I could find. So I don't totally want to blame them. Feel like I should have known better. How do you say it's the Rufino? It's literally like they're a couple bucks per bottle. So yeah, you can blame them. I feel bad blaming them, but I'll support you in blaming them.
Gina (01:43)
blame them.
I literally have a revenge candle lit behind me, so who knows what's gonna fall there? I don't know. There's not a story. Do you ever just wake up and you just feel vengeful?
Kathryn (01:58)
Wait for who? What's that story? ⁓
think probably not quite as often as you, my beautiful, beautiful Scorpio, but occasionally, yes.
Gina (02:11)
You
I think it doesn't help that I started reading The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo and there's just a lot to be angry about. That's my first time ever reading it. I'm really excited about it. I'm very close to the beginning. It's just already there's a lot of things to be angry about.
Kathryn (02:23)
I love that book.
Ugh.
Yeah. Have you read anything else by Taylor Jenkins Reid?
Gina (02:36)
I don't think, what was the other big one that she wrote? Daisy Jones and the Six?
Kathryn (02:39)
All of hers are big
now, but I was gonna say, but probably thinking of Daisy Jones in the six. Love Daisy Jones in the six. I've read every single one of Taylor Jenkins Reid's novels, perfection 100%. I could write a dissertation on her books. I love her novels. I was talking to my mom about this recently. I'm not a huge historical fiction fan because all historical fiction takes place during fucking World War Two, which I'm sorry, it was a tragic.
Gina (02:43)
Yeah.
Mm.
Hmm.
Kathryn (03:07)
time, but like I don't need any more romance stories that took place during World War Two. Like there's too many. So anytime I mentioned enjoying historical fiction, I'm like, but I can never find exactly what I'm looking for. Taylor knew and she wrote all the books I was looking for. So just finished Atmosphere, her latest. Cried by the time I was done with the intro hadn't even gotten to the novel yet. I'm crying like a baby.
Gina (03:36)
Aww. What period of history is that set in?
Kathryn (03:36)
It was perfection. my god, so good.
The 80s and these women work for NASA? Oh my God, so good. Oh, it's so good. One of the best love stories I've read. Yes, it's so good. She does the best love stories because they're real. Like they're real love stories. And not all of them end up happy, but all of them kind of do if you have an open mind.
Gina (03:43)
⁓ Dude, okay. Shit. Okay. I need to that one, add that to my story graph. ⁓ okay, I'm a sucker for a love story.
Mmm.
Okay.
Kathryn (04:08)
But they're
just like emotional feel-good stories. Perfect summer read. The only one I didn't love by her, I didn't love Carrie Soto Is Back, which was one of her biggest ones. And I feel like I want to give it another chance because I think I just wasn't quite in the mood for it when I read it. So I didn't finish it because I do not finish books that I don't like. I have a rule. But.
Gina (04:13)
Fuck yeah.
Mmm. ⁓
Kathryn (04:33)
it wasn't, I can't point to anything. It's not, I think it genuinely was just, I was in the mood for a different type of book when I started
Gina (04:33)
I feel you.
I love the don't finish books if you're not enjoying them rule. I feel like that needs to be celebrated more because some people get real snooty about it. And I'm like, I have like maybe 50 more years on this earth. I don't want to waste it reading a book if I'm not enjoying it. And it's not knocking the book. I just if I'm not having fun in my free time with something, I don't want to do it.
Kathryn (04:47)
Let's talk about that more. Yeah.
That's exactly it.
There are zillions of books in this world and I have a finite amount of time on this earth. If you cannot grip me by page 30, I don't have time. There's just too many books and not enough time. That's it. If someone tells me, if someone gives me a book and is like, here, it's great, but you have to give it 50 pages. That is an exception. I will heed that warning.
Gina (05:15)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kathryn (05:32)
But if I hit page 51 and I'm not into it, you're done. There's not enough time!
Gina (05:37)
There's not enough time. And there's just, there's an amount of energy that goes into reading. Like when you feel like you're forcing yourself to read something. My days of that ended when I graduated college. I don't want to have to force myself to read shit I don't want to read anymore. I like, I want to reclaim and I have reclaimed reading as an enjoyable recreational thing and not something I feel pressured or like I have to do. And it needs to stay that way.
Kathryn (05:39)
Yeah.
Mm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I think too many people think it like making it to the end of a book or whatever like a badge of honor. So many people come into the bookstore and are astonished to hear that pretty much none of us continue reading books if we don't like them. They're all like aghast like they act as if it's sacrilegious to put a book down. And it's
Gina (06:12)
Mm.
Kathryn (06:28)
of what? Like, why do you think we read so many books? It's because we don't put time into the ones we don't want to read. Like, reading can be an enjoyable thing, but you got to read the things you want to read in order to enjoy it.
Gina (06:33)
Mm hmm. Yeah.
It's same vibes as people who hate on decaf coffee. Not like in a personal way, but people who look down on others who drink decaf coffee. It's like, what's the point? Why? Like, just let people enjoy the things they want to enjoy.
Kathryn (06:48)
people who drink it, yeah.
Listen, it's the same fucking thing. Who cares? You're not drinking it. No one's making you drink it.
Gina (06:55)
These are the people...
These are the people we need to get revenge on. This is what I'm talking about! This is what it is! Ugh. ⁓
Kathryn (07:01)
get it now, okay, I get it. So this is who the candle is lit for. Now I'm so mad at everyone
who reads shitty books while drinking regular coffee. Okay.
Gina (07:16)
But on
the bright side of things, I saw that you put a very happy looking note in our shared doc and I want you to talk to me about it.
Kathryn (07:21)
Listen,
it's relevant and based on everything that just happened, not a single one of you is going to believe that it was said to me. But we were I was at work the other day at this aforementioned bookstore. It was slow.
we're just standing around chatting and we started talking about who at the store would be what birth order? Like which sibling would you be? And I got the best one. There were only like two or three mentioned.
One of the people I was talking to said he said that I would be quote, the well adjusted older sister. Isn't that nice? So nice. It's the well adjusted part that makes it the compliment. I was like, the like, yeah, I was I literally said I am going to go write about this in my diary the moment I get home. That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me.
Gina (08:02)
⁓ my gosh, okay. Wow. That's really nice. Yeah. Yeah, not like the neurotic older sister or something.
How nice!
Kathryn (08:23)
Yeah, I think that's the best compliment ever. Ever.
Gina (08:26)
That
happened to me at work a few months ago. We were trying to guess, like, well, it wasn't exactly the same thing. We were trying to guess where everyone was in their birth order, and everyone on the call guessed that I was the oldest. And I just started laughing, because I was like, you should fucking meet my older sister. God.
Kathryn (08:29)
Really?
Okay. Okay.
⁓ you do. You
do give up older sister vibes because you're because it's because of the spreadsheets like I feel like you're this like that's like you are my older sister in this relationship.
Gina (08:54)
I think so. think we're twins.
Kathryn (08:56)
I feel like we, I was just gonna say I feel like we take turns. Yeah, we probably are twins. We're like fraternal twins. Yeah.
Gina (08:59)
I think so.
Because you have been my, not technically
big sister, but you've been my big sister figure a lot.
Kathryn (09:08)
Yeah, as soon as I said it, was like, I'm speaking from my perspective because I notice it when I need a big sister. And I think vice versa. You know what I mean? I I agree with the twin thing. trying to decide which one of us is two minutes older.
Gina (09:14)
Mm-hmm.
no, in my
head we came out at the same time. Our poor mother. God rest her soul.
Kathryn (09:26)
Just our mother,
she's got a revenge candle on us. My god, now I'm stuck in this world in my head where this mother exists and she's evil and coming for us. That was a whole rabbit hole I just fell down.
Gina (09:30)
I know, yeah, it's scary.
Or maybe she was a witch
and she like summoned us out. No pain, nothing. Just one second we were inside, next second we were outside.
Kathryn (09:47)
Yeah.
Gina (09:51)
Anyway, I can talk about the Spaniards in now if you want.
Kathryn (09:52)
Wild. Okay. All right. I'm so excited for this.
Introducing The Spaniards Inn
Gina (09:58)
Okay, so unlike my first episode this month, I'm telling a story about an actual bar today. It's technically a pub. There was a pub, but this is about the pub, not just a story with a pub is one of the players in the game. So today I'm gonna be talking about the Spaniards Inn in London, which is one of the most historic and most haunted pubs in the UK. Needless to say, I simply must run my mouth about it.
Kathryn (10:04)
There was a pub in the last one.
Okay, that's fair. That's fair.
Yay.
Gina (10:27)
And I'm gonna start by describing what it looks like so we can all picture ourselves there having a nice pint and getting haunted and stuff. So here I go. So the Spaniards is just off of the road next to Hampstead Heath, which is this like huge plot of green space in London. It's basically like a massive ass fucking field. And when you get to the pub, it's this tall three story building with its name on the front.
and then two crossing swords above the name. And we will get to the swords later because there is a story behind that. Outside of the pub, it has like a really stunning back garden, beer garden area, tons of outdoor seating, one of those like plant arch thingies that you can walk through. There's a whole lot of space, really cute. It seems like it would be great in the summertime. And when you get inside,
Kathryn (11:02)
⁓ okay.
Gina (11:21)
very classic British pub vibes. So wooden floors, tons of wood paneling and art along the walls, snug little corners, comfy chairs to sink into. They also have an open fireplace that crackles away in the colder months. Yeah, as far as pubs go, like this is my ideal pub. If I lived near there, I would be there every single day.
Kathryn (11:35)
Ooh, love that.
Mm-hmm. sure. That sounds so good.
Gina (11:44)
especially
extra so because when you're there you might experience some interesting things. For instance, you might see a man ride up to the pub on a huge horse only for him to disappear before he walks through the door. You might also see a woman's face gazing down at you from one of the windows before fading into nothing. And once you're inside, after you've had a few pints,
you might start to feel a tugging on your sleeve as if someone wants you to put down the glass. Ghosts! But before we dig into the lore, let's talk about the history real quick.
History of The Spaniards Inn
So the Spaniards Inn is not one of those pubs that feels super old, but was actually built in like 2010. It actually is old as fuck. It has been operational since 1585.
Kathryn (12:23)
Okay. Ghosts!
Gina (12:42)
So almost four and a half centuries. I know.
Kathryn (12:45)
That's just, listen, I'm sorry. I just, I know we talk about this not all the time, but it's brought up pretty regularly in passing. What is old over there is so freaking different from what is old over here. US is young. Holy crap. Yeah.
Gina (12:58)
It's so young. Yeah, and one of, I always get
this joke whenever I'm like out with people, because a lot of pubs will have like established in 17, whatever the fuck, on the little outdoor area. Every time we see something like that, there's some Brit that's like, that pub is older than your country every single fucking time. And it does blow my mind that it's fine. It is true, yeah. It is so old that even its name is steeped in lore.
Kathryn (13:09)
Mm-hmm.
It's true though. Yeah, it's It's wild.
How did The Spaniards Inn get its name?
Gina (13:30)
According to the pub's website, it was named after the Spanish ambassador to King James I. But that's boring. And there's a very popular competing rumor that it was actually named after two of its old landlords, who were two Spanish guys named Francisco and Juan Porero They were brothers and they were super tight, like best of friends thought nothing could ever tear them apart until...they both fell in love with the same woman. Yeah, unfortunately her name has been lost to time, which I mildly rage about, but she's described as being this stunningly beautiful local woman. And this story goes that this love triangle drove such a wedge in between Juan and Francisco that Juan wound up challenging his brother to a duel over her. And the winner,
Kathryn (14:03)
Ooh, yeah, that'll do it.
Mm-hmm.
Gina (14:29)
would get to be with her. Don't know if she had any say in this.
Kathryn (14:31)
My God. Yeah,
that's such a... I mean, I'm sure she didn't. We can say it. But let's just pretend she did.
Gina (14:38)
I'm pretty positive, yeah.
Yeah, so Francisco agreed. The duel went ahead. And when all was said and done, Juan was left dead. His remains are said to be buried in the pub's gardens, but reportedly his spirit still walks the halls. For years, patrons have reported a shadowy figure upstairs and in the hallways, usually accompanied by kind of a feeling of restlessness and agitation, which to me sounds like some emotions you might feel before dueling your brother and getting killed. But what do I know? I have never dueled my sister despite my best efforts. I'll try again at Christmas, but no promises. And Juan, ⁓ my God, thank you so much. Juan isn't the only member of this little party that still hangs around.
Kathryn (15:26)
faith in you.
Gina (15:34)
There are also reports of a woman in white lurking in the gardens and the windows. So fucking classic. The woman in white trope is, ⁓ yeah, what? Sorry.
Kathryn (15:39)
Classic.
Love it. No, no, no, sorry. just, love a woman in white and I love a face in a window. I thought that when you first mentioned that, in a face in a window. I don't know why. That's just so much fun. That's the first thing I always do anytime I go on any ghost tour, any old house or anything like that. If I take a picture of the outside, I'm immediately like zooming in to the windows because...
Gina (15:51)
Me too.
Creepy as fuck.
Mmm, mhm.
Kathryn (16:10)
There's always the question mark of like, is that something? I don't know.
Gina (16:14)
Yeah, I'm thinking about when you were at the Roff House.
Kathryn (16:17)
Wait, my God, I did get a face in the window. I literally did. Yeah, I did. We'll share that picture. I totally forgot about that. We'll do an episode on the Roff house. Don't worry, it's coming. We're just, we've got a schedule we have to stick to.
Gina (16:20)
You got a face in the window. Yeah, you sent me a picture of it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (16:35)
But yeah, I forgot about that. I was so excited about that because I love a face in window. Yeah.
Gina (16:40)
You're a primo face-in-window spotter. You did a great job. Well, if you go to the Spaniards, you'll probably see another one. Or you might also see her hanging out outside. That's like her two spots. She's mostly outside by the trees and the road. Occasionally, every now and then, someone will see her in the window. And it'll be like you catch a glimpse of her face, and then she's gone. She doesn't really hang around.
Kathryn (16:42)
100%. I love it. I never miss a face in the window.
Okay.
Hmm.
Interesting.
Okay.
Gina (17:07)
And yeah, it's super interesting to me too, because if she is this woman, it's interesting that there seems to be a divide in which areas of the pub her and Juan haunt. Juan is pretty much exclusively seen inside the pub, whereas she is almost always seen outside the pub. And even when people see her in the windows, her focus is always on the outside, which I have a few theories about. Theory one is
Kathryn (17:19)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Ooh, okay.
Gina (17:36)
that it's a very dramatic, like even in death, there's something keeping them from being together, star-crossed lovers kind of thing. Theory two is that she's stuck in a loop of being or looking outside waiting for this duel to happen.
Kathryn (17:53)
Oh, maybe, yeah. Oh God, okay.
Gina (17:55)
I have a third theory. Okay,
so my third theory is that she didn't want to be with Juan. She wanted to be with his brother, so she's just fucking avoiding him.
no matter what is causing that division, it brings this idea of spatial separation into the picture or territory into the conversation in a way that I don't hear very much with ghost stories. I'm far from a ghost expert, but most of the ghost stories that I've heard are about one ghost or multiple ghosts who haunt together, not ones that do shit separately.
Kathryn (18:16)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a good point. know there's, I mean, there's got to be plenty, but not it's I don't know if explicitly mentioned in any stories that I've heard. Like that there's something. ⁓
Gina (18:43)
Mm-hmm where they like knew each other in life, but they don't they're not in cahoots
once they're ghosts
Kathryn (18:49)
Yeah, that's interesting.
Gina (18:51)
I digress. We actually, don't even know if this story is true. I personally choose to believe it because it's way more interesting than being named after an ambassador to King James I.
Dick Turpin’s history at The Spaniards
But one story about the pub that does hold more weight is the story of Dick Turpin. Have you heard of Dick Turpin? Are you like a Dick Turpin girl?
Kathryn (18:58)
Yeah.
you
Love it.
I, you know what? I've never dabbled in the Dick Turpin. I do not know who that is. I just, I love where this is going. That's all.
Gina (19:20)
Okay, the reason I ask is because he,
it was one of those things where he's well known over here, but I couldn't remember if he was well known at home too, or if it's just like in recent years that I've.
Kathryn (19:30)
The name,
yeah, the name Turpin rings a bell. I know that there is a word called turpetine so I might just be thinking of that. If he's like important to the world, pretend I know who he is. Okay.
Gina (19:38)
Hmm.
He's not really. He was a highwayman. So he would rob travelers. if you've ever seen like a movie or show or something where they're like, throw the jewels out of the carriage, that is what Dick Turpin did. That's like his whole thing. ⁓ He's mostly famous over here because he was written about in a lot of Victorian literature, but he was a real person.
Kathryn (19:51)
yeah, no.
Okay. Yeah, yeah.
Mm.
Gina (20:08)
And one quick fun fact about him that I wanted to share is that his Wikipedia page says that he once joined quote, a gang of deer thieves, which is just think that's a funny series of words.
Kathryn (20:19)
Okay, why not? Sure.
a gang of deer thieves. So what did they do? Did they steal deer from hunters or they're just out like chasing deer in the woods? Do you know?
Gina (20:28)
and a gang of deer thieves.
I did not look into
it, my dude. I just read that and I was like, hell yeah. That's fucking cool.
Kathryn (20:43)
So I'm assuming it's the first one, but my imagination is having more fun with the second one.
Gina (20:48)
Yeah, I just,
I love the idea of a gang of deer thieves because it implies a level of organization and like logistical planning to steal deer. And I just like that.
Kathryn (20:53)
Yeah.
You know damn well my father is listening to this on his phone typing me a text right now to explain to me the logistics of this. No, you're not supposed to say catch a deer. I learned that when I was little. It's not catching. You're hunting them. You're not catching them.
Gina (21:07)
⁓ Well if you want to catch a deer this is actually please do tell me how to catch a deer, please
⁓
What
if I don't want to kill it?
Kathryn (21:22)
then you're just a pussy. No, I'm just kidding. No, I'm just kidding, just kidding. my God, wait, I'm sorry. This is such an interruption, but I just reminded myself, I caught a fish this weekend. Yeah, did I tell you that story? I caught a fish. So do we have time for this? Why am I telling this story? Because I caught it. You catch fish, not deer. That's what I was told when I was little, that's why.
Gina (21:24)
HAHAHAHA ⁓
I didn't realize that's where the line was drawn.
No!
Tell me, wanna know. okay. So yeah, why don't you hunt fish?
Kathryn (21:53)
Because you catch them.
Gina (21:57)
Oh, you're right. I'm sorry for asking. I feel like an idiot. No, tell me about the fish that you caught.
Kathryn (21:58)
Duh! Did I stun her?
So, day one on vacation when we were up north, Adam, Phil, and Yara are down at the dock fishing. And I come down late to the party as usual, because I was just vibing in the air conditioning. they're like, hey, you want fish? Want fish? Blah, blah, blah. I just take the bowl, plop it in, feel a tug, and I'm like,
What? I just reel it in and there's the fish. I was like, all right, cool. All done. I felt so bad though, because he didn't even get the worm. He had this gaping ass hole in his face and he didn't even get a worm. I felt so sad. It felt a little barbaric, not to knock fishing, but like, I didn't love the way it made me feel. I think I'm off fishing. I'm done with fishing. That's enough for me. I've done enough.
Gina (22:40)
That's pretty bullshit.
like that. That's funny.
Interesting. I'm jealous of your fish catching skills. Anyway, sorry, okay, yeah. So, ⁓ sorry, I dropped my pen.
Kathryn (22:57)
Anyway, to be continued.
We're doing great. This episode is bomb. I love this episode. It's going so great. I'm sweating right now. I'm literally sweating.
Gina (23:07)
It's going really well. I was just thinking that I'm so sweaty right now.
Okay.
So yes, he was in the Deer Bandit Gang and his dad, Dick Turpin's dad, used to be the landlord of the Spaniards Inn, which way back then, this big hot spot where all the highwaymen used to hang out. It was like the local banditry bar.
And the reason why is because the pub is and was situated really conveniently for them. I shouldn't say is, I guess, I don't know if there are highwaymen anymore. It was situated really conveniently for them.
Kathryn (23:42)
Mm-hmm.
Sure. There was that one Willie Nelson group. It's whatever I just said is true. I swear, the highwaymen, it's a thing. Do you know what I'm talking about? Well, the man one, yeah. Anyway, I'm sorry. Please continue. ⁓ yeah. I love that. I love that you knew about the high women first. I love that deeply. Yeah.
Gina (23:51)
What?
⁓ the high women, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the man version, yeah. Yeah. Yes, okay. I only know about them because of you, actually, because you showed me the high women.
Me too, yeah.
Anyway, Dick Turpin's dad, yeah, he ran the pub. Pub was great for robbers because it had a really great view of the road outside and it was about two hours away from central London by carriage. So they would get to catch rich people as they left the city and there wasn't a whole ton of people around to stop them or do anything. There are rumors that Dick was born at the pub. We do have records to suggest that he wasn't, but that's the rumor. Regardless, we do think he was a regular and that while his dad ran the pub, Dick would use it to scout out targets. He would be like, drinking one hand, looking out the window, there's a rich person there, let's get him. Which I'm not condoning stealing, but that does sound fun in the romanticized version of it I have in my head.
Kathryn (24:53)
Mm.
No, that's fine. Yeah,
this is great. I love it.
Gina (25:06)
And when Dick eventually died, he was executed for stealing horses in April 1739. Some say that his spirit went right back to the fucking pub, which I respect. Apparently the upstairs room of the Spaniards used to be Dick's room. And even now there are still pictures of him hanging up there with his horse, whose name was Black Bess. And Black Bess haunts the pub too.
Kathryn (25:09)
Thank
I love animal hauntings. I love love love animal hauntings so much
Gina (25:37)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
So numerous guests have reported seeing a dark cloaked figure riding a huge massive horse up to the pub where he dismounts and walks up as if he's going to go inside only for him to vanish once he crosses the threshold. Like as soon as he steps in, just nothing.
Kathryn (25:57)
Interesting.
Gina (26:00)
People also report the sounds of creaking floorboards in what we think might have been Dick's room, like someone is pacing in there. Sightings of people in the types of clothing Dick would have worn are also common, like little glimpses before they disappear. And multiple staff members have said that when they're in his old room, they'll hear someone say their name and no one's there, which is creepy.
Kathryn (26:27)
Yeah,
that's interesting.
Gina (26:30)
And sometimes, on a really, really quiet night, people swear they can hear the sound of a huge horse walking on cobblestones, commonly thought to be dick out riding with Black Bess
Kathryn (26:44)
That's a spooky sound that reminds me of whatever that is, Sleepy Hollow or whatever. Yeah. yeah. Headless Horseman. That's who that is. Imagining it like echoing. ⁓ we should tell that story. I mean, it's fictional, but.
Gina (26:48)
I was just thinking, yeah, Sleepy Hollow, yeah, Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't really know much about that story. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
I would love that.
Enter Dick 2: The Buzzkill Ghost
And Dick Turpin is not the only ne'er-do-well that still hangs out at the pub. There is this legend about a moneylender whose name was also Dick, weirdly. We'll call him Dick 2 in the spirit of the last episode. And Dick 2's ghost is the one that tells you when you've had too much to drink. So in life, he was a loan shark who people just fucking hated, like real scummy guy.
Kathryn (27:16)
No.
Okay.
I was gonna ask, was he a narc? I knew he was gonna be some kind of weird little narc if he's telling you to stop drinking. Boo! We hate Dick 2
Gina (27:33)
He- Yeah, he was a little fuckin' rat, yeah.
Boo. Boo, Dick 2. We hate Dick 2. Let's put that on a shirt. Take from it what you want. Call us poets. Anyway. In life, Dick 2 was a loan shark. People hated him. sucked. And then one day he was run down by a horse and carriage just outside the pub, trampled to death.
Kathryn (27:47)
Okay, yeah, and room for interpretation.
You
That's kind of sad, I'm sorry. Sorry. RIP, too.
Gina (28:07)
That sucks. Take the second.
Kathryn (28:19)
I'm so sorry.
Gina (28:21)
I like Dick Jr. That's good. And since he died, people have reported, you know, they'll be sat at the bar drinking when they feel a tug on their sleeve. And bartenders like to say that it's Dick Jr.'s way of telling you it's time to put the glass down.
Kathryn (28:34)
Mm-hmm. ⁓ Dick Jr. That's funny. That's such a, that's an interesting, ⁓ that's such a specific sensation. Like a tug on the sleeve. It's not just, that's different than someone kind of brushing past you or a breeze or whatever like.
Gina (28:42)
Yeah. Little dicky boy. Mm-hmm. Because it immediately gets your attention. Like it's a reflex, you know?
Kathryn (29:01)
Yeah, I don't... Right, it... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.
Gina (29:07)
So now that we've gone through a few of the ghosts, ⁓ do we think they're all friends? I think they're all friends.
Kathryn (29:14)
All the friends are, blah blah blah, all the ghosts are friends with each other. Yeah.
Gina (29:18)
I think so, or at least I think they're in cahoots. I like to think that the woman in white lords over all of them and is in like commander in chief of mischief or something.
Kathryn (29:25)
Me too. Yeah, I like that too. I mean, they must be if they're like, well, I don't know. But I think they must be. They're all in the same space. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't seem like they would be at odds with each other. They all kind of have their own space, you know?
Gina (29:37)
I hope they get along. Yeah, that would kinda suck. Except for Dick 2. he just sucks, they don't like him.
Kathryn (29:53)
Well, Dick 2 is in other people's space, it seems like. Dick2 just needs to mind his own business.
Gina (29:57)
Yeah. He's like the really annoying younger brother who's like 20 years younger than all of his siblings. And so it's like, Jesus fucking Christ, we can't relate to you, Dick. Yeah.
Kathryn (30:04)
That's yeah. He's just the straight edge square, no offense to anyone who is also straight edge square. Who is not joining us for cocktail month, which if you're not, it's okay, no judgment.
Gina (30:18)
So. You can, yeah. No judgment. You can live vicariously through us because... yeah, hardcore.
Kathryn (30:25)
Yeah, we do judge Dick too though. Maybe I think he sounded like not a fun guy in life. So RIP to him tragic death that is sad, but also that was hundreds of years ago. He would be dead by now anyway. So RIP, I guess. I don't know. Yeah.
Gina (30:31)
No.
Yeah. RIP, RIP in peace.
The Spaniards Saves the Day
I also have a little side story about the pub. It's not super ghosty. I just think it's pretty funny. It's an interesting little snippet of history. essentially, pub, spark notes is the pub managed to dissuade a crowd of people from burning down a manor house. I will explain. So way back in the 1700s, there was a lot of anti-Catholic sentiment in the UK.
Kathryn (30:49)
Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm.
Gina (31:08)
Because by this point, England had been Protestant for a few hundred years and being Catholic was seen as this like undesirable thing. They were openly discriminated against. ⁓ Movements were restricted. They weren't allowed to join the army or anything like that. All of those stupid levers that people pull when they hate a group of people for no reason were being pulled. This is also when the Revolutionary War was going on, or as they call it here, the American War of Independence.
Kathryn (31:34)
⁓
Gina (31:37)
and Britain really needed some more people to send to America to fight for them. So they decided to relax the rules on Catholics not being allowed in the army. And Protestants were not fucking happy about this. So they started ransacking places, burning down buildings, and one of their targets was a place called Kenwood House, which is where the first Earl of Mansfield lived.
He doesn't matter in a very huge way in this story. Spark Notes is like he was a big government official. Ironically, he was Protestant, not Catholic, but he was one of the faces of government and the government was trying to relax all the anti-Catholic stuff. So he kind of became a little bit of a scapegoat situation. And his house, Kenwood House, became a target. Coincidentally, Kenwood House is very close to the Spaniards Inn. Like the pub is on the way to the house.
So when the landlord of the Spaniards, a guy named Giles, so Ayo, he found out, right, he found out that this group was planning to burn the house down and he intercepted them and basically said, hey guys, you have had a long day being angry citizens. Why don't you come in and I'll give you some free beer? And so the crowd went inside and they had free beer. And while they were drinking, Giles secretly sent someone to go get the local militia.
Kathryn (32:39)
Love a Giles.
Gina (33:02)
And when the militia arrived, they were able to calm everyone down and everyone went home safely.
Kathryn (33:09)
⁓
Gina (33:09)
Isn't that fun?
Kathryn (33:10)
Nothing like a ice cold free beer to calm down a pack of people. That's so interesting.
Gina (33:17)
Couldn't agree more. Delicious. ⁓
Literary stars at The Spaniards
Yeah. In the centuries that have followed, the Spaniards also became a popular spot for literary stars. Charles Dickens name drops the pub in his work, The Pickwick Papers, which is very fun to say out loud. There are rumors that John Keats wrote his famous ode to a nightingale in the pub's garden. And the pub also gets name dropped in Dracula.
Kathryn (33:35)
Mmm.
Gina (33:46)
There are also rumors that Bram Stoker actually took inspiration from the Spaniards ghost stories when he was building the Gothic world in his work. So that's fun.
Modern Hauntings at The Spaniards
But not all of the stories about the Spaniards take place a hundred years ago or more. Contrary to my habits, I do occasionally tell modern stories too. And this is going to be one small example of that. two, yes, in 2022,
Kathryn (33:56)
Yeah, that's cool.
Yay!
Gina (34:13)
A woman brought her elderly dog with her to the pub. And once they sat down, her dog, which was like an older pup, so it was like a really friendly docile, just like nice, just wanted to sit there thinking dog thoughts. But this dog became fixated on a specific spot underneath the table opposite them. Started growling, and this dog never growled, like ever, started growling, and it just wouldn't stop.
Kathryn (34:35)
⁓
Gina (34:42)
The waitress and its owner both tried to distract him, calm him down, whatever. Didn't work. Weeks later, another guest came in with a dog. This time, it was kind of the opposite situation. The dog was this really energetic puppy. I think he was either a puppy or in the teenager phase of being a dog, where they still act like a puppy, but they're big. And this dog fixated on the exact same spot.
Kathryn (35:02)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Gina (35:10)
and we do not know why. That's kind of the end of that story, but as a side note, if you do have a pet who has ever done some weird stuff like this, tell us about it because I love those stories. Yes.
Kathryn (35:13)
Interesting. That's weird.
Oh my god, tell us.
Gina (35:25)
if you just want to send us a picture of your pets, you can do that too. I will accept it and love it.
Kathryn (35:28)
God, send us a picture of your pets. Yes, wait, I love that. Please send us a picture of your pets. We'll share pictures of our pets. We'll share them in here. Somewhere.
Gina (35:36)
Yeah!
Kathryn (35:39)
Yes.
Gina (35:39)
I feel like this is how Madonna came up with Vogue.
She was probably talking about her cats. send us a picture of your dogs or cats or whatever animals you have. Bonus points if it's in a pub. Triple bonus points if it's a Spaniard in the Spaniards, because that would be really fun. Anyway, shortly after all of that happened with the dogs, a family came into the pub for a Sunday roast. Delicious. We love it. They had
Kathryn (35:41)
Yeah. Love a roast.
Gina (36:07)
a big jug of water on the table, like one of the ones that everyone just passes around and uses. And at one point, it slid off the table of its own accord and it fell to the ground, but it didn't break. It landed standing upright, not a crack, not a drop spilled. The waitress checked the table and it wasn't on a slant. There should have been no way it just slid right off like that.
Kathryn (36:11)
Mm-hmm.
Interesting. That is weird. Yeah.
Gina (36:33)
Weird, Yep, and in 2003, backtracking a little bit, the pub was also featured on an episode of Most Haunted Live where investigators reported cold spots and voices, and it's still a very popular spot for ghost tours. A lot of ghost tours in London hit this place up as one of their big spots.
Also, side fun fact, apparently you can see Harry Styles there sometimes, because he lives in the area.
Kathryn (36:47)
Mmm. ⁓
Gina (37:01)
So
Kathryn (37:01)
that's fun.
Gina (37:02)
if ghosts don't scare you, maybe mid-2000s boy bands can, and you can see him there. So yeah, anyway, that's kind of the end of my story. If you wind up going to the Spaniards, let us know, send us a picture. Try not to get haunted or do for shits and giggles either way. Cheers. End of story.
Kathryn (37:08)
Cool.
Cheers. Cool. I love to that. are, I don't, I don't think I know about the Spaniards Inn. I don't like recognize the name even. Like I don't think it's anything I've heard of ever. Yeah. Interesting.
Gina (37:29)
I hadn't really heard of it. It's cool
though. It's interesting. It looks gorgeous. I can totally see us sitting in the garden having a drink or something.
Kathryn (37:39)
Ugh, love that. Love
that.
Gina (37:41)
So now that that's out of the way and I can just sit back and relax for a little bit. Do you have something for me today?
Kathryn (37:44)
Gosh.
Listen, I do and I could talk about it forever.
The most talked about court case of the last few years has come to a close as of last month. Karen Read, who was on trial for the murder of her partner, John O'Keefe, was found not guilty last month on all the most serious charges against her. We'll go into all the charges and everything a little bit later. If you're not familiar with the story, first of all,
That's amazing that you were able to dodge this because it's in every corner of every news outlet. Like you cannot avoid this if you tried, if you're like here in America, it's all over the place. ⁓ But besides that, I will give you a high level rundown. This is not an exhaustive story. I have just a few minutes to get through all of this. So please know that I am not giving every single detail. So don't come for me if I leave something very important out. Okay, so.
We'll start with what actually happened on the night of January 28th, 2022, Karen Read and her partner of two years, John O'Keefe, were out at the Waterfall Bar in Canton, Massachusetts. That's the connection. That's the bar connection.
Gina (39:03)
⁓
Okay, nice.
Kathryn (39:04)
It's relevant for this month. And they were with some of John's friends slash colleagues from the Boston Police Department. After things kind of started winding down at the bar, they decided to keep the party going at one of their houses, this guy Brian Albert's house, and he was also on the police force. So.
A bunch of Boston cops who've been drinking heavily load into their respective cars and drive on over to Brian's house. Not a good start. Off to a bad start right off the bat. So Karen and John are driving together and they get to the house and Karen decides she's not feeling up to it. She's already too drunk. She doesn't want to continue with the festivities. So she's just going to drop John off and go back home. At around 5 a.m. the following morning.
Gina (39:30)
Hmm. Okay.
Kathryn (39:54)
Karen wakes up and finds that John is not there. You might be thinking, OK, maybe he just got drunk and crashed there. The reason she was so freaked out is they
had gotten into a fight allegedly the night before and she was freaked out because she was nervous that something had happened to him. like, last thing she remembered was being in this fight with him and she was admittedly, she confessed to being too drunk. She didn't remember the full night.
So that morning, she enlisted a few other people to help her go look for them. while they were out looking for him, Karen made, in my opinion, a huge mistake and saying that she was nervous that she could have possibly run him over and injured him because she had a cracked taillight in the back of her car that she just noticed that morning. So she starts.
Gina (40:51)
Hmmmm ⁓
Kathryn (40:55)
like, accidentally confessing to this crime that she also is saying she was blacked out and like doesn't know if that happened. But like she doesn't know what happened. So she's trying to like think of what could have happened. Around 6am, John was found lying in the snow outside of Brian's house and he was unresponsive.
Karen immediately assumed the worst and started crying and was just hysterical and like in her hangover head, she was like, my God, I did hit him. And so she's literally saying, my God, I hit him, I hit him. like, is he okay? I hit him, blah, blah, And emergency responders are like, shit, this chick's like confessing to hitting this guy.
addition to this, ⁓ one of the things that kind of starts making it a little bit muddy is the fact that on January 29, there was a Google search
from the phone of a woman named Jennifer McCabe, who is one of the people that was partying at Brian's house that night. And this Google search said, quote, how long to die in cold. But one of the things people kept latching onto is how was spelled H-O-S. So there was like a typo. So people are suggesting like this was kind of a frantic search, like, you know.
Gina (42:07)
Mm-hmm.
⁓
Kathryn (42:13)
as
someone who pays attention to nothing at all and Google is smart enough to know what I mean, that who knows? But that's something, that's a sketchy search regardless of whether or not there is a typo. It is worth mentioning this typo is brought up quite a bit. we've got Karen who's freaking out. She does not know what happened, but is scared she did something. But then there's the suspicious Google search from this other woman who was there that night.
Gina (42:19)
Yeah.
Kathryn (42:41)
So it's like things are immediately like, what the fuck? Police say that they found a broken cocktail glass and a broken taillight fragments at the scene where the body was found. John was pronounced dead at the hospital later that morning. And the autopsy report indicated that the cause of death was blunt impact to the head combined with hypothermia.
Karen was arrested on February 2nd of that year, just not too long after this happened, and she was charged with second degree murder, manslaughter while operating under the influence of alcohol and leaving the scene of an accident that led to personal injury or death. The trial started in May of the following year, 2023, and the defense, so Karen's team, suggests that there was a fight inside Brian's home that night after Karen dropped
John off. They claimed that john was struck in the head at the party during the fight. And that everyone at the party was in on it and dumped him outside and just pretended that he never showed up that night so that they could pin it on Karen.
They said that there were wounds on John's arm that were consistent with dog bite marks, and Brian did have a large dog at the home.
the prosecution would say that John's CNA was on the taillight that she said she was nervous, you know, she hit him with. The defense said that the cracked taillight was not consistent with the injuries on his body. And there was
video surveillance that Karen's SUV at one point got extremely close to John's car in their own driveway. And it could have happened then, like based on the angle and everything. And they're saying that that's all that it's literally just a crack. It's not like consistent with running someone over essentially. ⁓
Gina (44:30)
Okay.
Kathryn (44:42)
Another piece of kind of back and forth was Jen McCabe, who had that Google search in her phone, said that Karen is the one who told her to make that Google search. experts determined that the search happened before she was enlisted to help Karen find John. So she, in theory, shouldn't have known he was missing at that point unless he was missing from the party.
or she had reason to believe he was out in the cold for some reason. In addition to that, in March 2024, the Massachusetts State Police opened an internal investigation into a, quote, potential violation of department policy. And it was in regards to an officer named Michael Proctor. And they didn't specify what exactly the violation was, but people kind of triangulated.
that and the defense stated that the violation was the fact that he was investigating this case but also had a personal relationship with all of these people who were at the party who are also on the police force. So that's like conflict of interest. So they're like, okay, that's not okay. This is not being handled correctly at all. In addition to that, he was also in a group text, basically shit talking Karen and saying one of the things he said
Gina (45:52)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kathryn (46:07)
was, quote, hopefully she just kills herself. Yeah.
Gina (46:10)
⁓ What?
Kathryn (46:15)
For anyone unaware, that's not something any fucking law enforcement officer should be saying about anyone, regardless of the circumstances. Yeah. So at this point, people are like, those fucking cops are dirty, shit's going on, something weird is happening. For disclaimer's sake, I do have to say, I am not saying that, that is just what was being said. I have opinions, but this is...
Gina (46:24)
Huh.
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (46:42)
what was said I am just relaying this information don't come from me. Okay. So the trial began in April 2024. Long story short, the only thing anyone really had on Karen is the fact that she freaked out and was saying, God, I hit him.
wasn't ever any hard evidence that it actually happened, other than the cracked taillight, which was not definitive evidence, basically. So at one point, Brian took the stand and claimed, swore up and down that neither Karen nor John entered his home that night. And he was basically saying whatever happened to him, she did it. ⁓ At another point, a woman named Allie McCabe
was a friend of the cops, took the stand and said that a man named Colin, who was proven to have a history of violent behavior and was alleged to be included in the fight that the defense said happened. She said that he quote, was not there when John was there, which a lot of people point to as a misstep on her part insinuating that that goes against what Brian said and John was in fact at the house.
Gina (47:53)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (47:53)
So it's like Brian is saying he was never there. This alley chick is saying he was there, just not at the same time Cullen was, so they couldn't have gotten in a fight. So it's like, okay, which one is it? So it was just constant chaos back and forth. This trial was a mess, basically. It was just finger pointing, basically, and no one had any hard evidence on anything.
Gina (48:03)
Yeah.
Kathryn (48:17)
On July 1st, 2024, the jury was unable to reach a verdict and they were quote, deeply divided and ultimately the judge had to declare a mistrial due to a hung jury. A week later, the defense filed a motion to accept a not, to accept a not guilty verdict because apparently,
Gina (48:28)
Okay.
Kathryn (48:37)
the jury was only hung on one of her accounts, the other two, they had originally reached the determination that she was not guilty. So they were like, well, they said she wasn't guilty. Can we like have that verdict? The prosecution was like, no, fuck that. You can't you already accepted the mistrial verdict, because that's a way America works. So they go all the way back to the beginning and they have to start a new trial basically.
Gina (49:02)
Hmm.
Kathryn (49:07)
which was scheduled for January of this year, but it got postponed to April. So when the trial started, the biggest focus this time was on Jen McCabe's Google search. Previously, it was the tail light. Now we're talking about the search. Obviously, they both were talked about in both, but we have to like find a different angle now, but we only have these two things. So ⁓ trial starts, everything's superheated, chaos ensues at one...
Gina (49:26)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (49:36)
At one point, there was a snowplow driver who was going through the area that night and said he didn't see anything or anyone on the side of the road where John's body was found, insinuating that he was in Brian's house at the time. But that doesn't prove anything because just because someone didn't see something, it doesn't mean it wasn't there.
During the deliberation of that trial, the jury had questions about what to do if they agree on some of her charges, but not others to afford what happened in the first trial. So everything's repeating itself, but this time they're actually like, yeah, being smart about it. After four days of deliberation, they determined that Kieran was not guilty of all of the most serious crimes, as I already said.
Gina (50:07)
Smart.
Hmm.
Kathryn (50:24)
⁓ So that would be the not guilty for second degree murder, ⁓ manslaughter while operating under the influence and leaving the scene of an accident resulting in death. She was found guilty of driving while under the influence of alcohol, which like they all were and she yeah, she was she didn't deny I don't think she even denied that. On June 19, just
Gina (50:41)
In the grand scheme of things, yeah.
Kathryn (50:53)
barely a month ago. Yep, Massachusetts State Police Colonel Jeffrey Noble gave an official statement in which he said, quote, the department will continue to work on improvements in oversight and accountability. So we're like straight up acknowledging this was messy from the start and no one was doing anything they should have been doing. And one of the members of the jury spoke out about what
Gina (50:53)
Wow.
Hmm.
Kathryn (51:18)
you know, why they reached their verdict and how they got there and blah, blah, the little like spokesperson for the jury. And they just said there simply wasn't enough evidence to convict her. And they believed investigators did not do a good job on this case. And it was too messy. And there were too many inconsistencies and everyone's testimony and the evidence provided was subpar. That was basically it. They were like,
Gina (51:42)
Okay,
damn.
Kathryn (51:44)
investigators did not do a good enough job. And that's why like we can't convict her because there's literally no proof of anything and nothing adds up. So
Gina (51:54)
sure is convenient when it's the cops doing the investigating. Anyway, Take a bit. Allegedly, allegedly.
Kathryn (51:59)
⁓ Yeah, yeah, allegedly, allegedly,
it would be convenient if that were the case, which it might be apparently, so that's the verdict. I will say I'm happy she's not guilty. I just think even if she did do it, there just simply is not enough evidence.
the evidence that the evidence against both sides is a joke. It's literally just, well, I heard that or she said that or they said or whatever. It's like, okay, so what actually happened? Yeah, so that's it. That's Karen Read.
Gina (52:32)
Hmm.
Yeah.
you for the update, even though I didn't know the story, so I don't know if it counts as an update to me. Thank you for the information and for the update to everyone else. Damn. Huh. Okay, sweet. I'm gonna go Google some shit.
Kathryn (52:43)
I was gonna say the update is that this has happened for the last three years. This is what's going on over here. Yeah. Cool.
Do it.
Alright.
thank you all for joining us and until next time, keep it cool.
Gina (53:00)
Keep it creepy.
