87: Selkies
Gina (01:08)
I'll be very upfront with you, Kathryn. I I had two and a half pints immediately before this recording, so we'll see how this goes.
Kathryn (01:16)
Okay, wait, because we're an ice cream podcast, you have to clarify, do you mean beer or ice cream?
Gina (01:24)
Yeah.
Kathryn (01:26)
I'm assuming you mean drinking, but I just have to make sure.
Gina (01:29)
d I do un I do s
I do unfortunately mean beer, but how funny would it be if I just had like two empty pints of Biden like Ben and Jerry's right behind me.
Kathryn (01:34)
Okay.
Honestly, well
let me show you why that's kind of funny and realistic to me.
This is what I have today. No, it's not empty. Don't be ridiculous. Not yet. ⁓ okay. Yeah, I'll I'll explain my situation here in a second, because as you'll notice, this is not afloat. I'm keeping all this in, just so you know, because that's fucking hilarious. ⁓ so hello. Hi everyone. Welcome to I Scream You Scream. We are your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories, mysteries, and paranormal perplexities. My name is Kathryn.
Gina (01:51)
Okay. Mine's in a mug.
Wait.
I'm Gina.
Kathryn (02:18)
And what month are we in? July. It is July. Hot as hell. We are, I think, both coming out of our heat waves. And to help us through the heat wave, we are talking about bodies of water. While we eat/slash drink, ice cream floats allegedly. I will address my situation in a moment. Don't worry. If you already know us and you've been hanging out with us for a while, welcome back. And if you want more from us each month,
Gina (02:21)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (02:43)
on over and join us on Patreon, just like our brand new friend Plastic Daisies, who is the latest member over on Patreon. Thank you so much for being there. Shout out to you.
Gina (02:53)
Mm.
Kathryn (02:55)
yeah, and just as a reminder, not as a reminder because I haven't said it yet. Sorry. We we were doing great. I was doing great. You're still doing great.
Gina (03:05)
You still are.
Kathryn (03:13)
This is what this episode is gonna be like. my god. Anyway, okay. This episode is sponsored by Clobear Money Coach. So if you're ready to start investing, but unsure how exactly to get started, go over and visit Get LazyNow for a green green Gino? What is happening to me? Green, green money, get it. I meant to say a free guide to ⁓ walk you through how to get started investing.
Gina (03:16)
Ha ha ha.
I can't tell you, but I like it.
Kathryn (03:42)
The lazy way. Until then, grab a spoon or a straw or a glass or whatever you have and let's dig in.
Gina (03:49)
Hell yeah, man. Alright, tell me what's going on with your pint over there.
Kathryn (03:54)
So I messed up. Here's what happened. I have to go to the grocery store because we are going to a birthday party slash housewarming slash whatever the hell this afternoon, immediately after we're done recording. And I need to go get a veggie tray. And I was like, cool, I'll just get soda and ice cream when I go do that after we record. Which doesn't make sense.
Gina (04:13)
Mm.
Kathryn (04:21)
So ⁓ Phil got this for he went have we ever have I ever taken you to that Archie's place, that Smash Burger place? But I've mentioned it, I think. Yeah. So it's attached to Scratch Ice Cream, one of our local favorites.
Gina (04:31)
Mm mm. You told me about it though. Yeah, yeah, you told me about it.
Kathryn (04:38)
Phil went there with a friend the other night and brought home some ice cream, which actually, fun fact, ⁓ I also went to dinner there with my dad the night before, and he bought me a scoop of the same exact ice cream. So shout out to both of the men in my life for knowing that I like Door County Cherry ice cream.
So I am eating Dor County Cherry Ice Cream. Yes. Yes. Girl, look at this. Here, let me show you. Let me show you what these bits look like. I don't know if you can see it with my light. It might be too there's so many in here. Yes. Yeah, it's so, so good. So yeah.
Gina (05:01)
⁓ yum Does it have chocolate in it or is it just cherry? ⁓ you're in heaven.
Ma'am, that's bitting. There's a lot of bits. That's so nice. All right.
I feel like that counts as a float
because if you let it melt a little bit, what is afloat if not ice cream in liquid? That's a float.
Kathryn (05:24)
It is a little yeah. The bits
are floating in the melted ice cream. You get it. Okay, cool.
Gina (05:30)
Mm. It's
like a cannibalism float. Floating in its own liquid. Sorry. I'm so sorry.
Kathryn (05:39)
We're really having one of those episodes today.
Gina (05:43)
I also went non-traditional with my float today. I ⁓ it is different. ⁓ I put it in my so it's in a special little B coffee mug. I love this mug very much. And it's ice cream in espresso. Went for a little afogato situation. Because I recently made some ⁓ mocha ice cream. Because mocha is one of Tom's like favorite things ever, and my sister sent me a recipe for it. So I was like, perfect, boom.
Kathryn (05:46)
what'd you do? Is it different? Ooh.
Mm-hmm.
Cool.
Nice.
Gina (06:09)
That counts as a float. What I didn't consider is that espresso was very warm. So my ice cream is melted. It it is fully liquid now. But it is still delicious.
Kathryn (06:12)
Ooh.
Yeah that's okay. Yeah, that's alright.
That's a true yeah, not quite a float, but that is a true what is it called? Afogato? I never know. I'm always scared to say that out loud because it's one that I've only ever read or heard other people say, and then when it's time for me to say it, I'm like I don't like saying it.
Gina (06:38)
You know the syllables,
not the sound.
Kathryn (06:43)
Yeah, exactly.
I get the cadence. The cadence I've got unlock. It's the actual word that is hard.
Gina (06:48)
Ha ha ha.
I mean, to
be fair, I don't think I've ever heard someone else say it. I've just been saying it with confidence, under the assumption that people would believe I was saying it correctly.
Kathryn (07:00)
Pretty sure I've heard other people say it the way you're saying it, but I'm still too s scared to say. Ice cream use screen pod at gmail.com. How do you say that word that I refuse to say? Do we have any Italians that listen to us? Do we have anyone f like from Italy? bongiorno.
Gina (07:02)
Afogato.
Ha ha ha
Please email us the phonetic pronunciation of how you say it.
If s if so, bongiorno And how do you say this?
Kathryn (07:25)
everyone, I was late to recording today and I'm a little bit struggling. So sorry about everything that's happening right now. ⁓ to move us along, because I keep holding this up, I do have another birthday shout-out this week. Technically, two My schedule is all messed up. So, birthday shout-out to my niece, who is going to be 14, and
Did I tell you this? I haven't told the listeners yet. She qualified for some race thing. Did I tell you about her like running situation? Yeah, she qualified for the Junior Olympics for sprinting. Whatever the hell that means. I don't know what it means, but I know it's cool. So shout out to her.
Gina (07:59)
You did, yeah.
That's so cool.
Kathryn (08:09)
yeah. then also, happy birthday to my husband this week. Forgot about that.
Gina (08:15)
Wow, I have it in my
calendar and I forgot about that.
Kathryn (08:19)
Yeah, I literally have niece birthday shout out in the notes, ⁓ and not for Phil. So anyway. Well, just to emphasize yeah, just to emphasize why ⁓ I feel bad for not having it in the notes. Whatever, he doesn't listen to this anyway. We can say literally whatever we want. He's gonna be seventy-five years old.
Gina (08:27)
think you said my husband, not Phil.
Birthday to that guy.
Okay, that's fair.
For his birthday, he's getting a double knee replacement.
Kathryn (08:50)
⁓ my god, probably.
Gina (08:52)
Well, very happy birthday to your niece and also Phil. Friend of the pod, Phil.
Kathryn (08:58)
under the pod fill. Yes.
I again I don't want to hold this up any longer. I'm just like losing my mind today. I'm super excited about this topic. So do you mind if we just jump into it? I'm so happy you're doing this one. Okay, cool.
Gina (09:10)
Yeah, hell yeah, let's jump into it. Let's
jump in someone say to the deep end.
Kathryn (09:15)
⁓ some would say that.
Gina (09:17)
Not me. Anyway, we're talking folklore today.
We simply could not let Bodies of Water Month pass us by without addressing the massive amount of magical creatures said to live beneath waves. Sadly I cannot talk about all of those creatures today, but we are gonna zero in on a personal favorite of mine, and I believe a personal favorite of yours too, which is Selki's.
Kathryn (09:42)
Yes.
Yes, I never talk about them, but like deep down, they're just one of my favorites.
Gina (09:50)
They are wonderful, right? Like they inspire a lot of enchantment and wonder, which is one of the things I love about them. And for those who are unfamiliar with Selkies, they're kind of these mythological shape-shifting beings that switch between the form of a seal and the form of a human. And they do that by putting on or taking off a seal skin. Which sounds gross, but it's kind of like a full body suit situation. So when the seal skin is on, they look
Kathryn (09:55)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (10:19)
Exactly like a seal swimming around playing in the water. And then when they take the seal skin off, they become these beautiful, sexy humans that walk around on land and get up to all sorts of shenanigans. Quick content warning before I continue. A lot of Selkie folklore deals with themes like forced marriage, drowning, and also animal death. There's not gonna be anything graphic in this episode, but just a heads up that some of the stories I'm gonna tell
Are going to make us both sad and angry. But if it's at any consolation, at points we will also feel enchanted and whimsical. Don't know why I'm trying to sell you on this episode. You have no choice other than to sit here listening to me, Kathryn. But rest assured this exa yes, and this episode likely will change your life. Don't hold me to that. Anyway, here we go. So the myth of Selkies
Kathryn (10:58)
Excellent.
My two favorite ways of being.
Ha ha ha.
Gina (11:16)
comes from a lot of different cultures. It's not isolated to any one specific place, but it's most commonly associated with Celtic and Norse cultures. And specifically the very, very north of Scotland, where the Shetland and the Orkney Islands are.
Selkies also appear all over the rest of Scotland as well, along with Ireland and Iceland. So there's a lot of different cultures at play here, a lot of different traditions coming together in this episode. And of course, every country, every culture, every town, every village has their own kind of spin on Selkie lore, and in particular, where Selkies come from, what they actually are.
Some say that they are the reincarnation of people who have drowned. Others say that they are just humans trapped in a seal form. And if you do want to get super Christian about it, which I know we do a lot on this podcast, some also say that Selkies are fallen angels who happened to land in the sea. Whereas angels who landed on land became fairies.
So Selkies are also kind of the fairies of the sea, depending on your tradition.
Kathryn (12:29)
my god, I've never heard that before. That's kind of fun. Yeah. Hmm.
Gina (12:32)
Isn't that fun? Yeah, that's super fun. And of course, there
are also the lamos who say that selkies are none of these things, but are actually just a way of explaining like certain medical conditions before modern science. So, like, for example, ⁓ when children were born with webbed fingers or things like that, people would say, they have selkie blood, and it was a way of explaining that.
Kathryn (12:49)
Mm.
My dad has webbed toes. That means there's sulky blood in my family. Mm-hmm. my god. Wow. Sweet.
Gina (12:58)
You have Selkie blood. You're tied to the water. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You do very much have Selkie blood. Personally,
I'm big into the fairies of the sea thing. That's what makes me feel the most excited. ⁓ and also, to be fair, like the way that Selkies are often characterized is very similar to the way we speak about the Fae. Because Selkies are not purely good nor purely evil beings.
Kathryn (13:08)
Yeah.
Gina (13:22)
They can be super friendly, they can be genuinely helpful, they can also be very vindictive and very manipulative. Because just like fae, Selkies are beings that embody nature and all of the wonder and danger that nature simultaneously holds. And so it makes sense that Selkies are both wonderful and dangerous. And this is one of the things that distinguishes Selkies from Kelpies.
Which is another type of mythological creature and one that Selkies are often confused with. Selkies are not necessarily there to hurt you. Kelpies very much are. ⁓ Kelpies are a type of water horse its whole thing is that it like tricks humans into entering the water so it can drag you down into the depths and eat you. And some, yeah, very scary.
Kathryn (14:13)
Yeah.
Gina (14:16)
also one of the things that freaks me out the most about Kelpies is that part of their lore is that they have very sticky skin. So if you see a water horse and tu even if you touch it, you can't get away from it and it will still drag you down any it's very, very scary stuff. In some stories, kelpies can also shape shift into humans, but for the most part in lore, they are just very
Kathryn (14:22)
⁓
Yeah.
Gina (14:39)
Very hungry horses. And they're much more of an overtly bad thing. Whereas Selkies are much more human like in that they have lots of layered motivations and complexity to them. They're not purely good nor purely evil, nor are they all striving towards a specific goal in the way that Kelpis just want to eat people. Honestly, like the most malicious part about Selkie lore is that male Selkies are said to seduce married human women.
So like not nice, but not exactly evil and also very fae.
Kathryn (15:10)
Yeah.
Yeah. that's what I was thinking. I was thinking that feels very like trickstery.
Gina (15:19)
Yes, exactly. And it's like I think the landed fee that we tend to think of, they're more of like the trickster spirits that we would associate with. Whereas Selkies are more, I would call them almost like fickle, like just not quite reliable because they're doing things for their own ends. Whereas I think landed fae we tend to think of as more overtly like pranksters. Like they like doing things just for shits and gigs. ⁓ selkies are more like they have their own stuff that they're focused on. They're not necessarily focused on entertainment through humans.
Kathryn (15:26)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Gina (15:49)
Another aspect of Selkies that to me is very fay-coded is that they're said to love dancing under the light of the moon.
I know. It's like supposedly one of their favorite things to do. And it's actually very often how Selkie stories start is that they'll come ashore, they'll take off their seal skins, become human, and then they'll have like a big Selkie dance party until the sun rises. And this is also a very kind of inherently risky hobby for Selkies, because when they dance in the moonlight, they like to be in their human form.
And to be in their human form, they have to take their seal skin off and store it somewhere very, very safe. Because without that skin, they're stuck as a human. And also every seal skin is unique. So if you happen to lose yours, you can't just go to your Selkie buddy and say, hey, can I borrow your seal skin for a sec? It doesn't really work like that. To Selkies, a seal skin is just as important and unique as any other part of their body. It's like how if I lost my hand, I couldn't ask to borrow yours kind of thing.
Kathryn (16:57)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (16:59)
And once they do take their seal skin off, they could like technically physi physically carry the seal skin around with them to make sure that it doesn't get lost. But it does make it very difficult to dance under the moon if you're lugging a big old seal skin around with you. And also when selkies happen to come ashore for other things, carrying that skin around really gets in the way. Because for example, if you are a male Selkie,
Kathryn (17:12)
Yeah. No
Gina (17:25)
Coming ashore to find a lonely farmer's wife to keep you company, carrying a giant seal skin around with you is gonna be a pretty big giveaway that you're a homewrecker. So more often than not, they leave their skin somewhere else when they take on a human form. It's just like what Selkies do.
Kathryn (17:36)
Yeah.
I'm imagining the feeling and the emotional conundrum that I am in when we go to a concert in the winter time. Cause it's like you have your coat, but then once you get in there, you're gonna be like bopping around and dancing. It's gonna be hot and there's it's like you don't wanna lug it around, but so it's like, do you wanna be hot for a couple hours or do you wanna be freezing?
Gina (18:00)
Exactly.
Kathryn (18:11)
Deliriously cold for like a few minutes.
Gina (18:13)
Exactly.
It's the same reason that I ran around Milwaukee when I was twenty years old wearing i in thirty degree weather wearing not nearly enough cloth because it's just easier to fucking not if there's an option to not.
Kathryn (18:18)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Yeah, it'd be better to be
miserable just that amount of time versus miserable for the entire dance party under the moon.
Gina (18:31)
Completely completely agree. And I ⁓ I I I get Selkies. I I would love to be a Selkie. It sounds like so much fun. I say now, at the top of the episode. We will we will get into more into some of the bad, not good things that happen to Selkies. But for this part, dancing under the moon sounds absolutely
Kathryn (18:32)
You get it.
Ha ha
I know, I'm loving this.
Yeah. Yeah.
Gina (19:51)
Another thing that's really awesome about Selkies, or that would be really awesome about being a Selkie, is that when they adopt a human form, they're said to be like drop dead dime pieces. They are the hottest of hot, so sexy, so gorgeous. A lot of the stories focus on the women Selkies being really hot, but the men are too. And when I said that.
Kathryn (20:03)
Love it.
Gina (20:13)
Male Selkies are known for seducing married women. That is putting it like aggressively lightly. They're kind of described as like mythological casanovas. And according to some stories, they even have like seduction magic to them. There's like an otherworldly component to how attractive they are. So some traditions say that women in unsatisfying
partnerships can summon a super hot selkie lover by crying seven tears into the ocean. And that if you do that, a very sexy selky man will appear and he will treat you right.
Kathryn (20:54)
my god, I'm loving this. I don't know anything about male Selkies. I've only ever heard of like I thought of them as like mermaids. Which I guess there can be male mermaids, but yeah.
Gina (20:56)
Isn't it so much fun?
So they they are I mean, they are like kind of a type of mermaid because they are
⁓ very similar to mermaids. They're kind of half human, half aquatic. It's just that instead of having half human, half fish bodies, they are either wholly aquatic in being a seal or they are wholly human. They they shift from one to the other. They don't really operate in the physically liminal space that mermaids do. But they're often compared.
Kathryn (21:14)
Mm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.
Gina (21:32)
Yeah. And to be fair, with the whole like male Selkie being super seductive thing, like that's not a universal belief. Very few things about Selkies are a universal belief. ⁓ according to some traditions, Selkies are actually very restricted on how often they can transform into a human. And a lot of times it takes a lot more than just a lonely farmer's wife crying seven tears into the ocean. In some traditions, it's based on the season. So for example, Selkies can only transform in the springtime.
Or sometimes the season is irrelevant, but they have to wait for like the tidal conditions to be absolutely perfect before transforming. And in some stories, they can only transform at specific time intervals, like every seven days or every seven years or something like that. But there are two things that are almost always true in every version of Selkie mythology that we have, which is number one.
Selkies are meant to move between both the land and the sea. And if they somehow get stuck on the land, they will always pine for the water. And the second thing is that once they take their seal skin off, they are stuck in their human form until the seal skin goes back on again. So if the skin gets lost or stolen, it's very, very bad news for the Selkie.
And unfortunately, that's the way a lot of Selkie stories start. Specifically, a female Selkie will get her seal skin stolen by a human man and then bullshit ensues. It's a trope so common in Selkie lore that it's referred to as the Selkie Bride. So I'm gonna read a version of this story to you now. I will say they are there are hundreds, if not thousands, of versions of The Selkie Bride. So if anyone listening to this grew up with
A different version of this or a different type of Selkie folklore, please send it to iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com. I would absolutely love to learn more about what your experience was. The version I'm gonna read comes from Traditional Arts and Culture Scotland, which is a co-op that focuses on preserving traditional Scottish music, languages, and of course stories and lore. So I like this is a very representative version of the most traditional Selkie bride stories that we have.
So this is the sulky bride. Long ago, on the west coast of Scotland, a fisherman had spent all day at sea, but he had only caught a few very small fish. So as night began to fall, he rowed to shore and beached his little boat. As he walked towards his cottage across the pebbly beach, he heard beautiful voices singing a song more beautiful than any he had ever heard. He turned toward the sound, and there,
Near the water, a dozen Selkie folk were laughing and playing and singing. The fisherman couldn't believe his eyes. Very few people ever saw the seal folk who now and then cast aside their skins and took on human forms to play on shore. He stood and stared, but when the Selki folk noticed him, they quickly dived into the sea, and slipping beneath the rolling waves, they disappeared. I must have been dreaming, said the fisherman aloud.
And again he turned toward his cottage. But something nagged at him, so he turned again, and this time he noticed something sleek and shiny lying on a rock. He walked closer, and now he saw it was a seal skin. No one will ever believe I've seen the Selkies unless I show them this, he said, and he leaned over and picked up the skin and slung it over his shoulder. I could make a pretty penny if I sell this, he said.
Just as he spoke, he heard footsteps close behind him, and he quickly turned to look. There was an exquisitely beautiful young woman, and she was weeping so hard it nearly caused the fisherman's heart to break. Beautiful lady, he said, why do you cry? She sniffed and looked into his eyes. Kind sir, she said, choking back tears, you have my seal skin.
Please give it back, for I belong to the Selkies, and I cannot live under the sea without my skin. The fisherman could not stop staring. You see, he had fallen in love at first sight. Hmm. And because he was a yeah, agreed. And because he was a young man and terribly headstrong, he thought he must keep her with him. So he clutched the seal skin hard to his chest. This is the part that's gonna piss us off. Sorry, I should have warned you before I started reading this story.
Kathryn (26:15)
I knew. I mean,
as soon as yeah, no, I knew. It's okay. So obnoxious. It's because this is how all of these stories go. That's why. Like as soon as it's the something something bride, it's like, well, that sucks for her probably, but let's find out why. Yeah.
Gina (26:19)
Yeah, okay, okay. We're in it together. All right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
She had no choice.
Let's find out which flavor of awful this is. Dear lady, he said gently, be my wife, for I have fallen in love with you, and without your seal skin, you'll have to live on land. I'll make you happy, I promise. Please, sir, she cried. I could never be happy on land, and my folk will be so worried. I must go home. But the young man was stubborn.
Kathryn (26:37)
Right. Yeah, exactly.
Gina (27:00)
So he smiled as sweetly as he could, bowed his head, and bent down on one knee. Dear woman, I have a cozy little cottage. I'll keep you warm by the fire, I'll feed you all the fresh fish you could ever wish to eat. I promise you will live a happy life on the land. Please agree to be my bride. The young woman was helpless without her skin. She was trapped on the land and couldn't get back to her home in the sea.
So she took his hand and he led her home. Surely she would manage to get her skin back from him soon, she thought. For many weeks the fisherman kept the sealskin with him, for he feared his bride to be would steal it and slip away. But after a while, the Selkie began to settle into life on land, and when the fisherman saw this, he pushed the skin inside a crevice in the chimney. She'll never find it here, he said to himself.
month went by and they got married. They were very happy, and the fisherman was kind and generous. He truly loved his wife, and he always worked to make her happy, although he was still very stubborn. After a while, the Selkie woman grew to love her stubborn husband, and sometimes she would sing to him. Those nights he thought he was the happiest man in the world.
As the years passed, the couple had seven children, and the Selkie wife loved these lads and lassies with all her heart. Occasionally, the children would find their mother on the beach, gazing wistfully out to sea. Mother, why do you look so sad? They would ask. I've only been dreaming too long, she would say, and then she would shake her head and kiss their foreheads. One day the fisherman and the three eldest children went out in their boat to catch fish.
The next three walked to the village to buy some bread and milk, and the mother and her youngest son stayed home alone. Now the mother looked out at the window and watched the waves crashing on shore. Far in the distance she noticed on the slick black rocks a band of seals played and barked. She sighed deeply, and her eyes filled with tears. Her youngest son ran to her side.
Mother, what's wrong? he asked. Whenever you look out to sea, you grow so sad. Without thinking, she turned and said, I'm sad because I was born in the sea. It's the home to which I can never return because your father has hidden my sealskin. Now the boy, like all children in Scotland, has heard tales of the Selkie folk, so right away he knew that's what his mother must be. He ran to the fireplace, reached up,
and pulled the sealskin from its hiding place and held it out to his mother. Is this it? he asked. How did you find it? she asked, astonished at the sight of her skin. One day I was here alone with father, said the boy, and he took this from its hiding place and stared at it. He said it was special, and now I understand what it is. The woman embraced the sealskin, and then she reached for her child and embraced him. My darling, she whispered, I will always love you.
And then, clasping the skill the seal skin to her heart, she ran outside and down to the sea. She slipped into her skin and dived into the water. Soon after that, the fisherman and his children were heading home, and they rowed past a group of seals. The fisherman noticed a sleek young seal gazing at the boat, a strange expression on her face, and then he heard that seal cry, a plaintive sound as she disappeared under the water.
When the fisherman arrived home, his youngest son told him what had happened, and he felt his heart break in two. But he understood that his son was a loving boy who was braver and more generous than he himself had ever been. The fisherman and the children missed the Selky Woman for the rest of their lives, but they knew that she was back and happy in the world where she belonged. But after that time, Assil would often spend ages swimming close to the shore, and they never went hungry.
for the fisherman's net was always full of large gleaming fish.
So that is a very typical version of a selkie bride story.
Kathryn (31:18)
Okay, wait.
That's tragic and awful, but I kinda like that story. I really like that she went back to the sea.
Gina (31:25)
Okay, me too. Me
too. She gets her freedom in the end. And I do I struggle with a lot of Selkie Bride stories because like I genuinely feel so bad for her. And I will say that this version is not re representative of all versions. Sometimes she takes her kids with her, sometimes she doesn't, as in this one. But what I like about this story is that
Kathryn (31:30)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Gina (31:50)
It gets at this tension between and this struggle between land and sea, where the Selkie's life on land represents like family and structure, and her life in the sea represents like freedom and being true to one's nature. And there are totally like more modern interpretations of this. I'm not saying like kidnapping a woman and forcing her to marry you equals family and structure. But when these stories started being told,
Kathryn (32:01)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (32:17)
That is likely what it did represent. And so in this Selkie Bride story, the Selkie is a representation of the human struggle between those two things, like stability and freedom. Like everyone needs a space where they can feel safe and a space where they feel like they can be wild. And this story points out that you need both in order to be happy, and specifically that women need both in order to be happy.
Kathryn (32:19)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (32:44)
And I love it because I get excited when I see historical evidence of women being characterized as like not property.
Kathryn (32:51)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, because like w the thing again, like like you said, relative to the time in this version of the story, honestly, the number one thing that I clocked, besides him kidnapping her and trapping her and all that stuff, was the fact that after all that bad stuff was done, he was described as kind, which like still sucks, but I'm sure there's a lot of versions of the story where he's not, you know. I also love the fact that
Gina (33:16)
Mm.
Kathryn (33:20)
When she left, she left the kids. And I know that that's like real hot take, you know, that I feel like that really does a good job describing that. It's not like she wants to, it's that she needs to. Like she is called to the sea. Like that pull is so strong that not even her children whom she loved could keep her there.
Gina (33:40)
Yeah.
Kathryn (33:49)
That's interesting. I've never heard a story like that. I love that.
Gina (33:52)
It's really interesting. And like
to your point, there there are absolutely interpretations of this that view her particularly like early interpretations that s characterize her as like the evil woman who abandoned her family and it's like all of her like I am looking at it through a very 2026 lens. But even if we put on our like devil's advocate hats, like she abandons quote, abandons her family because she was put in a type of cage.
Kathryn (34:04)
I'm sure, yes.
Mm-hmm.
Gina (34:18)
And to see her as like the evil woman, like I still think that at its core, the Selkie Bride is a cautionary tale for men about what happens when you act entitled to a woman's love and a woman's loyalty. You will be abandoned at the first safe opportunity. And like in this version of the story that I just told, the fisherman doesn't really face any kind of consequence for this other than his wife leaving him. Like he winds up being fine, he gets tons of, you know, big fat fish, embarrassed, but not.
Kathryn (34:19)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Gina (34:48)
Dead or anything, but that's not always the case with Selkie stories. Sometimes the female Selkie is much more vindictive and in some cases even bloodthirsty. So I'm gonna tell you about the legend of Kópakonan So Kópakonan means the seal woman, but it's also used as her name in some of the stories.
Kathryn (35:05)
Okay.
Gina (35:14)
So it might like slip in there like I'm using it as her name every now and then, but it's like more of a title, if that makes sense. Kópakonan's story comes from Iceland and the Faroe Islands region. And for anyone like me who did not take a geography class in high school, the Faroe Islands are I yeah, it's I'm like embarrassingly I'm so bad at it.
Kathryn (35:33)
I love geography. This was my like when I
was switching my major, that was like a top contender. But then I was like, the fuck am I gonna do with that? Anyway, now I have a podcast. Anyway, everything's fine, guys. I'm doing great. Yeah.
Gina (35:43)
I I Anyway, it all worked out.
But the Faroe Islands, for anyone who doesn't know,
they're a group of eighteen islands that are just about halfway between Scotland and Iceland.
Kathryn (35:59)
dilemma. Yeah. It looks beautiful. I would love to go. Yeah.
Gina (35:59)
It is absolutely stunning there. Like you d it does it's like
a beautiful enchanted wonderland. And I'm so I'm gonna tell you the Faroese version of Kópakonan's story, which takes place in a village on Kalsoy Island. And it starts pretty much the same way as the last one, so I'm not gonna repeat everything. It's pretty much the same beats as before, like Selkie is minding her own business.
Kathryn (36:06)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (36:23)
Some farmer dude steals her skin, forces her to marry him, they have kids, blah blah blah. Sh she manages to get the seal skin back, she disappears into the waves. So, like basically the same exact story as before. But this time, she comes back. Because the farmer that took her skin, her like ex-husband guy, is planning on going seal hunting in a nearby cave. Yeah. Yeah, he's a he's not a kind farmer. He's a real piece of shit.
Kathryn (36:46)
eu
Gross.
Gina (36:54)
Mm-hmm. And the night before this big hunt, Kópakonan appears to him in a dream and says that there's a large male seal guarding the cave that they're gonna go hunting in. And there are also two seal pups in the cave. And Kópakonan says, These are my husband and children. This is my like selkie family. Please do not kill them. She like begs the farmer to spare her family. But the farmer didn't listen.
And in the morning, he and the rest of the villagers killed every seal they could find, including Kopakonin's family. Yeah, it's very, very sad. It's a very sad story. That night, the villagers were celebrating their hunt together when the door suddenly burst open and Kopakonan entered as a quote, horrible banshee.
Kathryn (37:28)
No
Ugh excellent.
Gina (37:48)
Brilliant, right? Complete left turn, I'm happy again. Like shit situation, but she's about to do some better shit. So Kópakonan let out a terrifying, bone-chilling wail, and she swore that in revenge for the murder of her loved ones, the people of the village and all of their descendants would be cursed. She said, Some will die at sea and others will fall from the mountain peaks.
Kathryn (37:51)
I love it.
Gina (38:16)
Until there are as many dead as possible to tie hands all around the shores of Kalsoy Island. And then she disappeared in a crash of thunder.
Kathryn (38:28)
Excellent. I love this.
Gina (38:29)
Beautiful.
And as the story goes, she is still collecting this debt to this very day. When someone in the village drowns at sea or falls from a cliff, it is said to be her collecting the souls that she is owed. And in 2014, the village actually erected a statue of Kópakonan
Kathryn (38:35)
Yeah.
Fine. I love that.
Gina (38:53)
It's it's a
be I didn't see it while I was there because I didn't know all of this was a thing, but I've seen pictures of it. It's absolutely stunning. It comes from a Faroese sculptor named Hand Pauli Olsen and it depicts a Selkie woman right on the edge of the water, standing on kind of like a like picture a rocky shoreline, and she's in the process of removing her seal skin. And the way the statue was positioned, it's like
Kathryn (38:57)
Hmm. Yeah.
Ooh, that's cool.
Gina (39:20)
Put in such a place and designed in such a way to withstand waves crashing around it. And so it's kind of like that one scene from The Little Mermaid where she's like on the rock. Yeah, but like revenge flavored. So I love it. It's absolutely stunning. I love Selkies so much. And again, like the story of Kópakonan and the legend gets at that cautionary tale. Like you need to respect nature, or nature will fuck you up.
Kathryn (39:30)
The Little Mermaid, yeah.
way. This is excellent. I love this so much.
Mm-hmm.
Gina (39:49)
But the story of Kópakonan also alludes to Selkies as a way of like processing loss and grief as well. Because when you live in an area like on the Faroe Islands, for example, that is surrounded by water, it has tons of dangerous cliffsides, and your livelihood relies on successfully navigating those two things, you do lose people every now and then.
And one of the examples that I read said that, you know, if you're like a kid whose dad disappeared at sea, it's a lot easier to believe that he's with the Selkies than believing he drowned. And so Selkies are also kind of like a folkloric coping mechanism as well, which is really interesting.
Kathryn (40:14)
Mm-hmm.
⁓
Wait, that's so sad. I love that. Man, I want to be a Selkie so bad. Damn. I know. Man, this is great. See, the problem is I'm scared of the open water. Like I can't watch those videos of people like out at sea or scuba diving or anything. It's that's like a phobia of mine. But boy do I wish that it wasn't. yeah, tell me, please do, because I want to be a Selkie real bad. Okay.
Gina (40:37)
Me too, dude. Like mermaids and selkies. I love aquatic folklore.
Well, you know what I think might make you feel better? So I think I think you will like this. So ⁓
there's lots of different versions of like when Selkies are in their seal form, when they're under the water, where do they live? There's a lot of different like answers to that. One of the most well known answers is that they live in kind of an Atlantis situation where it's basically like picture an underwater city in like a big air bubble.
Kathryn (41:08)
Ooh, okay.
⁓
Gina (41:22)
And so the Selkies put on their seal skin to swim to this Atlantis area, and then once they get home, they'll take off their seal skin again and live under the water as humans in this safe little bubble.
Kathryn (41:34)
God, it's like a space station, but underwater. Ooh, yeah, I like that. I'm I'll be a Selkie then. Yeah. I'm a Selkie. I know I'm saying this like this is an actual career option. Like where do I sign up? Yeah, that's man, that'd be so cool. That's so nice. I'm imagining like again, Little Mermaid, where what is it called? Atlantica.
Gina (41:37)
Exactly yes. So you would be safe.
I love that for you.
Where do I join the Selkie Union?
Kathryn (42:04)
But like you don't have to swim, yeah.
Gina (42:04)
Yes. Yes. Ex
yeah, yeah. Just that with like you have legs.
Kathryn (42:10)
In a bubble, yeah.
that would have solved a lot of Ariel's problems though.
Gina (42:14)
Yo. Like Did she not think she'd just like go to the Selkie neighborhood and be like, hey
Kathryn (42:16)
C yeah. Sh k just be a selkie.
Girl, what are you doing? Just be a selkie. Yeah. Hello. Done. What's next? What fairy tale can we solve next?
Gina (42:26)
Just make more money, bitch. What are you doing?
I love it. one thing, another thing that I find really interesting about like Selkies is that the body of lore around them, and there's so much of it, is that it it a way that uses seals specifically as like a representation of such human experiences. Because a lot of the Selkie stories they get at themes of like freedom and nature and grief.
All things that are very, very essential parts of human experiences, but we use at least partially an animal to communicate them. And one of the reasons why, the reason why it's like channeled through seals specifically as an animal, is because seals for a lot of these cultures were a massively important resource and were also highly respected. So you would use ⁓ like the skin to make hide and leather, the meat would feed your family, the
Bones would be used for tools. You would use every single part of the seal in order to survive. And with that came this like very profound sense of respect and reverence for them as beings. And I love this so much. Archaeologists have actually found lots of different burial sites dating back thousands and thousands of years where human bones and seal bones were buried together.
Kathryn (43:56)
God no that actually makes me emotional. Wait, I love that.
Gina (43:58)
It's beautiful, right?
And it we don't think we don't know, obviously, but we don't think it was like a a seal was buried with a person kind of deal. It was more like the resources that seals provided were so ingrained into the rhythm of life that like of course you would be buried with your lucky seal teeth or your like seal bone pendant or like your whatever, you know? And the most well known instance of this, is
Kathryn (44:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Gina (44:24)
They discovered the bones of a human hand right next to the bones from a seal's flipper. And that site is about six thousand years old. Yeah. And my brain wants to believe that they were like best friends. That like right, like it was us.
Kathryn (44:34)
wow.
Girl same, I was like, my god, they were each other's right hand guy. Yeah, my god.
No, because we both would want to be the seal Okay, it was just us, but one of us was not wearing our seal skin.
Gina (44:51)
Completely agree.
That's exactly what it was. That's actually my next bullet point is that they their names were Kathryn and Gina on the tombstone it said. Of I Scream You Scream pod.
Kathryn (44:56)
Yeah. Yeah.
From how many thousands of years ago? Okay. We look so good. I did exfoliate today.
Gina (45:07)
Six thousand, yeah. We moisturize. We exfoliate.
Yes, so they they could have been besties forever and ever. A a more pragmatic perhaps way to look at it comes from an organization called ⁓ the Scottish Archaeological Research Framework, aka SCARF.
Kathryn (45:27)
Sweet!
my god, this is a great episode. I love this episode.
Gina (45:32)
I love it so much. They have ⁓
tons of information about Mesolithic lifestyles in Scotland. And they do speak about like this specific situation where a human hand was found next to a seal's flipper. And they say, quote, this reflects a widespread characteristic of hunter-gatherer cosmology, that animal and human are not seen as sharply differentiated. And that's kind of what I want.
To end on because there is so much that sits within Selkie lore. And I think a lot of it comes back to the whole like humans are animals thing. We are living an animal experience. We need freedom and nature just as much as any other animal does. And I think there's something really cool. And I get so excited about a body of lore that treats animals and humans as literally the same being operating within the same body.
Kathryn (46:08)
Yeah.
Gina (46:29)
Because at the end of the day, we all end up in the same place. The dirt. And that's my episode.
Kathryn (46:37)
You may be of land, you may be of sea,
doesn't matter. Eventually you're just gonna be underground.
Gina (46:43)
Say
it with me, worm food. So yeah, that that's a a very brief overview of Selkies.
Kathryn (46:45)
Ha ha
Love that. Man, I love Selkies. I I mean, I know we talked about this, but I got so excited when I saw Selkies. Cause you and I both, our last two episodes this month, are kind of like hemming and hawing. Where are we gonna land? Blah, blah, blah. So when I saw Selkies in the official list, I was like, ⁓ no way. ⁓ I was so excited. Yeah, I love it.
Gina (47:04)
Hm.
Yeah, this was a
really re if you ever want to fall down a rabbit hole, there's so much about selkies.
Kathryn (47:18)
Yeah.
you okay. I I'm always hesitant to talk about books I loved when I was a child. Disclaimer, haven't read it in decades. Don't know if it's still appropriate, but have you ever read the book Seal Girl? It's literally just called Seal Girl, and Gina it took me years to find this book because it was one of those books where I just remember one scene. And every time I would explain it to people, they'd be like,
Gina (47:27)
Mm.
No.
Kathryn (47:44)
What are you talking about? Like that does not exist. I've never heard of that. Blah, blah, blah. And I finally found it. And it's literally just called Seal Girl. For years I would be Googling like a book about the girl that is a seal and like nothing would ever come up. It's called Seal Girl. ⁓ I'll have to fact check this. I think it's called Seal Girl. It's something like that. ⁓ and it's about a girl who is a seal as well. She's essentially a selkie. I don't think it's ever named that that's what she is.
Gina (47:52)
Ha ha.
Ha ha ha.
Kathryn (48:10)
⁓ but I just remember this one scene of her. I don't remember how it happened. I don't remember I don't remember the storyline at all. So I don't know if it's something that happened to her or if she was born that way or anything like that. But there's this one specific scene about her like discovering s you know, this about herself and she's like learning to swim and all that. And she's in this like, I don't know what you would call it, like a
Almost like a wade pool sized body of water. What's it called when it like comes up off the beach and there's a little spot?
Gina (48:42)
Is it a tidal pool? Is that what they're called tide? Ugh, something like I know exactly what you're talking about though.
Kathryn (48:44)
Something like that. Yeah. I don't know, but I believe you.
Yeah. it's like a tidal pool or whatever those are called. And cause she's like in that spot because she doesn't want to be out in the open sea, but she wants to be in the seawater, you know, and she's like flipping around and blah, blah, blah. And the reason I remember that's that's the only scene I remember because I remember so viscerally, like, I want that to be me so bad. my God, I wanted it so bad. I was like, how cool would that be? Ugh, I love it.
Gina (48:57)
Mm.
I relate to that so hard.
I remember when I was a kid, there were we grew up with like a mall when when malls were like still a big thing. We had a mall that was less than half a mile away from us, so we used to go there all the time and they had one of those big so lucky.
Kathryn (49:14)
Yeah.
Ugh. Ooh, nice, lucky.
Gina (49:25)
used to have like one
of those big fountains in the mall and so we would go there and we were kids and like toss coins in and make wishes and every single time I would wish I was a mermaid in that fountain. Like I would just hang out in the shout because I was scared of the ocean. I didn't want to get eaten by a shark.
Kathryn (49:28)
Yeah.
Yes! Yeah, it's not safe. A
freshwater selkie, how cool would that be? I could just hop into the Lake Michigan real quick, come back, be home in time for dinner. my God. That'd be so cool. Love it.
Gina (49:48)
⁓ yeah Catch a grouper?
Yeah.
speaking of something very sweet and lovely, do you have a scary on top for me?
Kathryn (50:03)
⁓
yeah, I don't know if it's sweet or lovely. I tried to go neutral on this one because I I was gonna try to do like feel good because I was so excited for Selkies, but then I was like, honestly, nothing's gonna top talking about Selkies, so why even try? So it is beach related. I looked for like a beach related ghost story on Reddit. So yeah.
Gina (50:09)
Okay.
Woo.
Kathryn (50:29)
and I kind of like I like the vibes of this one, so that's why I went with it. title is the Ever So Descriptive I Saw Something on the Beach. Yes, I know. ⁓ and that was submitted by user wizzy222 And it's a few years old. I found it in the paranormal subreddit. And actually, I do want to say one thing about it. I was kind of pleasantly surprised because I'm
Gina (50:38)
Me too, you know.
Kathryn (50:54)
I get a little sick of the paranormal subreddit every now and then because people are so skeptical all the time because they try so hard to debunk things, which I understand totally, but it gets to the point where it's like you all are just closed-minded at this point. Like not everything's as explainable as you make it out to be. But this is one of the first stories I've seen or read, I guess I should say, where people in the comments were like, were you at such and such beach?
Gina (50:57)
Mm.
Kathryn (51:21)
Yeah, you saw a ghost. Like people were like on board. So yeah, isn't that fun? Yeah. it says Last July I lived in Wilmington, North Carolina with a couple of my buddies from high school. One night, me and my friend decided to go to the beach after midnight to just escape and talk about life. Immediately, yes, immaculate vibes.
Gina (51:22)
⁓ damn. Okay. Sweet.
Yeah, totally.
Kathryn (51:44)
It gets better. He says we get to the beach around midnight and we decided to go sit in the vacant lifeguard tower to chat. So good. Isn't that so much fun? Yeah. I love a late night trespassing beach chat story. This is just so good. Yeah. it was a Saturday night, so there were a lot of other people around on the beach. We were used to this.
Gina (51:53)
That's beautiful that's so sweet.
Mm-hmm. Totally.
Kathryn (52:07)
we were talking on this tower, I noticed a man from kind of far away. He was wearing all black and walking towards us from near the pier. The pier is about 200 feet from where we were. Like I said before, there were many other people on the beach, so I just kind of ignored him and kept on with our conversation. About 20 minutes go by, and the people are starting to leave the beach. This thing
is still slowly making its way toward us. Now my friend is aware of it and we both kind of stop and observe it for a little while. The figure was about five to six feet tall, kind of looked like a drunk man slowly shuffling toward us. He was wearing a black t-shirt and black pants with a black cap on. The eerie thing about him was we could not make out any facial features whatsoever. As I said before, there were several other people at the beach that night
And we could make out the faces of every single one of them. But this thing was different. We couldn't see anything. The figure was getting close to Sorry. She's like, No, it's a trap. She's like one of those people in the movie theater who's like, ⁓ holy shit! Like
Gina (53:18)
Ha ha ha.
Kathryn (53:27)
Yeah, exactly. The figure is getting close to the lifeguard tower we were at, so my friend and I kind of went into a little bit of a fight or flight mode as it approached us. Both of us got silent and watched as the figure shuffled up right underneath the tower. We immediately started looking around to see which direction he went, but he was nowhere to be seen.
Because he had been moving so slowly and we were paying such close attention to him, there was nowhere he could have gone without us seeing him. He was just simply gone. We decided to leave very shortly after that, and we didn't really speak much about it in the car ride home. The part that still haunts me is the lack of a face. It was just like looking into a black void. What do you think we saw that night? Someone help. And yeah, I I I mean, like I said,
Gina (54:24)
Demon.
Kathryn (54:25)
Like, truly, people in the comments were straight up like, and I will say another detail, someone asked a good question about whether or not there were any footprints or anything. And he said, No, there was no indication in the sand that anyone had been walking where he was. And everyone else, like normal. You leave prints or you like sh if it's wet sand, you leave footprints. If it's dry sand, you kinda kick it around a little bit. And he said there were no tracks or anything like that.
so many people were like, Where were you at in Wilmington? Like what beach was this? And he described where he was, and they were like, Yeah, dog, you saw a ghost, like just straight up. I don't think there was any I mean there were people who were like, maybe it was just, you know, some down and out guy, blah, blah, blah. But then once he said there were no tracks and which beach he was on, they were like, ⁓ actually it may have been a ghost. So yeah, just kidding, you were not safe. Sorry.
Gina (55:02)
Ha ha
Actually never mind.
That's tick
because I was picturing them in the lifeguard thingy. I was picturing one of the ones that's like super high off the ground. I don't know if that's what you were picturing. Okay. Okay. ⁓
Kathryn (55:22)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, yes. It was a tower. It was like on still
so he so the figure goes like underneath that and like is gone. But it's not yeah, but it wasn't like a building. It wasn't like where it was just one of it was like they look like high chairs. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Gina (55:36)
That is terrifying.
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. That's what that's exactly what I was picturing. All right. That's even fucking scarier to me then.
Because there's like that at least when when you're in something like that, I imagine there would be like a false sense of security of like, even though there's like this creepy dude shuffling down there, like, I'm up high. If he tries to climb up, I can kick him in the face. I'm in the defensible position. But if they then disappear and you can't see where they went, the fear of getting down off that tower, ⁓
Kathryn (55:56)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Where did they go? Yeah.
absolutely.
almost at that point it's worst case scenario is it isn't a figure, it really is a human and they're like hiding under there waiting for you to climb down. Yeah. No, not the ankles.
Gina (56:18)
Yeah. To like grab your ankle while you climb down. my god.
Get your feet off the ground.
Kathryn (56:26)
Anything but
the ankles.
Yeah. Awful.
Gina (56:33)
Beach ghost. Well that was scary as hell.
Kathryn (56:36)
Yeah. Definitely well, I was gonna say I prefer the Selki story, but I actually did like that story. So thank you for submitting that to Reddit WYSI Two Two Two, however many years ago. just different vibes, I'll say different vibes from the Selkies. Yeah.
Gina (56:42)
⁓ Sorry.
Extremely different vibes, yeah.
Yeah yeah.
Kathryn (56:54)
Cool. Well, if any of you out there have a spooky story or any type of story, it doesn't have to be spooky vibes, can be any of the vibes, send them to iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com. And friendly reminder, we are on Patreon to go join us over there and rate and review wherever you listen, that really helps us out.
And yeah, until next time, little spoons, keep it cool.
Gina (57:16)
Keep it creepy.
