69: Mata Hari (Part I)

Kathryn (00:10)

Hello, welcome I Scream You Scream. We're your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories, mysteries, and paranormal perplexities. My name is Kathryn

Gina (00:20)

I'm Gina.

Kathryn (00:22)

And for the month of March, we are going to be telling stories about femme fatales. And we're very excited about this one. And the flavor is chocolate and berries. So we'll go into our interpretations on that in a little bit. Just friendly reminder, we are on Patreon. So join us over there if you want. I almost said in between. What is happening? Sorry, I'm struggling right now. Can we talk about what's happening right now?

Gina (00:47)

I'm out.

Your

Kathryn (00:51)

What's happening?

Gina (00:51)

cat's trying to be a scarf.

Kathryn (00:54)

Cinnamon, mama's recording an episode right now. Okay. I don't, I really, I really don't know what she's doing. I'm trying to like, okay, there we go. Sorry. Was not expecting that. Let me take that, take that back a little

Gina (01:05)

You

Kathryn (01:11)

reminder that we post behind the scenes stuff regularly on Patreon, so go over there and check us out. If not, we would love for you to rate and review us on your regular feed. But until then, grab a spoon and let's dig in.

Gina (01:26)

Hooray!

Kathryn (01:28)

What are you eating? What's your interpretation of berries and chocolate? I'm dying to know.

Gina (01:33)

⁓ I felt a little bit guilty about my performance last month. So I made ice cream this month, my ice cream maker, and it's blueberry ice cream with like a chocolate swirl through it.

Kathryn (01:41)

my God, okay.

Sounds good. Okay, I love that. That sounds good. So I did not feel as bad about my performance as you did, even though I should, and therefore I phoned it in again. But I am, as previously discussed, I am using the Raspberry Strip of the Rainbow Sherbert and...

Gina (01:49)

I'm excited about it. What are you having?

Yay!

Kathryn (02:14)

So I thought that we had chocolate sauce. So I was just gonna be lazy and do that, but turns out we do not. And so what I did was I took the emergency dark chocolate bar out of my purse that I keep there at all times. I mixed it with a little bit of milk and melted it. And I'm using that.

Gina (02:41)

Cool.

Kathryn (02:42)

to top my raspberry sherbert.

Gina (02:45)

Sounds delicious. Shall we give it a try?

Kathryn (02:47)

Yeah, and

it was like a dark chocolate crunch. So there are some corn flakes in there as well.

Gina (02:52)

⁓ yum. That

sounds so good.

Kathryn (02:57)

soon.

Gina (03:00)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Kathryn (03:00)

Ooh, yeah, yeah. Yep, that's it.

yeah. All right, thanks for joining us everybody.

Yeah, that's good. Ooh, that's so much better than last month. Wow, I was gonna pivot next week, but man, I'm not mad about this.

Gina (03:15)

I know exactly what you mean.

That sounds damn good. And you're being sustainable by using what you already had.

Kathryn (03:28)

I'm really trying to make it through this bucket of sherbet.

Gina (03:31)

Hahaha

Kathryn (03:34)

before I continue enjoying this, we have a very belated shout out for one of our lovely listeners, who we've mentioned before,

Gina (03:38)

Mm-hmm.

Kathryn (03:44)

She is the one who went to Point Pleasant and sent us all that lovely information about Mothman and Chief, I almost said captain, Chief Cornstalk Captain Cornstalk, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry about that. Chief Cornstalk. ⁓ But she sent us really cute... ⁓

Gina (03:57)

in Cornstalk.

Kathryn (04:05)

Mothman stuff. She sent us little enamel pins and stickers and some postcards from Point Pleasant. We'll share them. We've already shared them on socials at the time this comes out, but we'll share them in the YouTube video as well. huge shout out to Loren for sending us those. That was very, very sweet. And also thank you for taking pictures of our stickers throughout Point Pleasant, because that was very sweet.

She does, before I does have a shop. It's called Occasionally Eerie.

has these little paranormal passports that she makes. And I got one last year because she made a special one for Chicago for Windy City Fest. And I haven't cracked into it yet. I also have another one that's for hotels. So it's just all these hotels that are haunted. And you have these little stickers that you can give yourself whenever you do these locations.

I just want to be very clear. This is not sponsored. I actually bought this last year and I'm like very excited to crack into it. I haven't been to any of these places. Oh, wait. Yes, I've been to this one, the going to give myself a little sticker. anyway, yes. So she has these on her shop. Occasionally, Eerie will link it. She has an Etsy shop.

Gina (05:02)

He

I've been there too.

Kathryn (05:18)

You can find her on social and all of that. But yeah, I love her stuff. And I got a bunch of stickers when she sent those to me when I bought it last year. So yes, huge shout out to Loren I love your stuff. And yeah, like I said, we'll link

Gina (05:24)

Hell yeah.

Thank you so much, Loren and that's so kind of you. We were so excited. And Cinnamon's excited, too.

Kathryn (05:36)

I was gonna say I'm so sorry, I'm like being weird right now. I'm like trying to like shove her off camera. I love you, Cinnamon. Okay, ⁓ we do have a very special episode today. Do we wanna jump in?

Gina (05:41)

It's okay. ⁓

think we probably should, yes. I have a lot of words to say in a very specific order to say them in. So... Before I get started, big old content warning. I'm gonna be telling a story that includes alcoholism, abuse, and the death of a child. All of those parts are in part one. This is gonna be a two-part episode.

Kathryn (05:53)

think we should too.

Gina (06:15)

By the way, so all of those come in part one, just as a heads up, there's not gonna be any of that in part two. There will be things that infuriate all of us in part two, but just not those specific things. All right. ⁓ also, sorry, another one before I start. Huge shout out to our Patreon members for picking today's topic. can, yeah, I almost forgot to say it.

Kathryn (06:34)

Yes, yes.

Yeah, if you do join us on Patreon, one of the perks is you get to help us choose our topics And this was one of the ones. Yeah.

Gina (06:48)

So yes, thank you to

our Patreon members for helping us pick today's topic. Today, I'm going to be talking about Mata Hari. And I'm going to start by talking about the end of the story. So stick with me

a cold autumn morning in 1917, just outside of Paris, a woman stood alone in front of a firing squad. line of soldiers faced her, staring unblinkingly at their target. Some with open contempt and others with unmistakable awe.

She was a legendary beauty, a world famous dancer, a courtesan of the rich and famous. And according to France, she was also one of the most dangerous enemy spies of World War I.

As the woman prepared to die, she refused the customary blindfold, staring down the men who prepared to shoot. And just before the shots rang out, eyewitnesses swear she blew a kiss to her executioners. The woman's name was Mata Hari. And over the last century, she's become known as a woman so dangerously seductive, so powerfully persuasive that she single-handedly caused the deaths of tens of

thousands of men. But the reality of her life tells a different story. So today I'm going to tell you about how Mata Hari became the cultural icon she is today and how she wound up standing in front of that firing squad.

Kathryn (08:25)

my God, stop. Wait. Okay. Yeah. You're so setting the scene right now. I feel like I'm in the crowd. The kiss blowing, I'm already obsessed.

Gina (08:28)

Did I set the scene? Am I out here setting the scene? Excellent.

Right. That's the energy this whole episode, pretty much. So let's go all the way back to the beginning. Mata Hari was born on August 7th, 1876 in the Northern part of the Netherlands. She was a Leo.

Kathryn (08:41)

Okay. Okay.

Gina (08:55)

And as I continue telling this story, I think you will find she is the most Leo, Leo that ever Leo'd in the entire history of the universe. When she was born, she was actually given the name Margaretha I think that's how you say it in Dutch. Yes, okay, Margaretha.

Kathryn (09:10)

My God, I love that name. That

was my, well, this is an aside that was my name in Spanish class. Yeah.

Gina (09:20)

Nice, mine was

Antoinette in French class.

Kathryn (09:23)

⁓ that's pretty. I love the name internet.

Gina (09:26)

Me too, I liked Marie Antoinette.

Kathryn (09:28)

Yeah, I get Maria Antoinette vibes from you. I don't know why I just slurred that word,

Gina (09:33)

Thank you. Well, I'm getting

Margarita vibes from you with the slur.

And we are who we are. So yes, her birth name was not Mata Hari, but just for ease, I'm going to continue calling her Mata Hari. But at this point, like I said, she would have been Margaretha or also her family called her M'greet which I thought was kind of a cute nickname. But anyway, back to her family. So her family was affluent. Her father was a hat maker who had made some investments in oil like rich people do.

Kathryn (09:43)

Yes. Yep, that's the vibe. All right, continue.

Gina (10:11)

which meant that Mata Hari was able to go to really fancy schools. She learned piano, she took French lessons and dance classes, and just generally enjoyed all of the privileges that come with having rich parents. Until she turned 13, at that point her father's business failed, which led the family to bankruptcy. And that of course created ⁓ some very

intense tension within the household because they went from really, really rich to really, really poor real fast. And by this point also, to make matters more complicated, Mata Hari had three younger brothers. And so without the ability to provide for his wife and kids, their dad just kind of left the family and moved to the country's capital to live with his brother. I will say, I'm not sure if he went there with the intention of like finding work and sending money back or if he just was

Kathryn (11:08)

Mm-hmm.

Gina (11:09)

calling it quits,

Either way, he wasn't around and he wasn't supporting them in any way financially, which meant that Mata Hari's mother was left with four kids in a cramped apartment and very little money with which to care for them. Not exactly a great vibe. So her parents wound up divorcing very, very shortly after this happened. And sadly, Mata Hari's mother got tuberculosis and died about two years later.

Kathryn (11:14)

Mm-hmm.

Gina (11:37)

causing Mata Hari to move in with her godfather. So yeah, it's like when the bad things come, they come in droves, you know? And to get to another bad thing that happened. So when she was living with her godfather, she did start studying to become a kindergarten teacher, which was a little bit ironic because Mata Hari herself was not considered to be the best student. She wasn't like bottom of the class. And I don't know like,

Kathryn (11:37)

my god.

Yeah.

Gina (12:04)

the technical education word for it, but I would say disruptive student is who she was. She wasn't the class clown, but she kind of from a very young age had this natural ability to get people's attention And she loved being the center of attention, which some of her teachers didn't really appreciate. So I think the thought process in her going to school for teaching was like, I'm gonna become the teacher that I wish I had kind of thing. I don't know that for sure.

but that's just my assumption. So she starts going to school it, and almost immediately there are issues because the headmaster was a gross old man who started blatantly and openly hitting on her. And for context, she's 15 by this point. She's a child. Yeah, so this went on for about a year until her godfather removed her from the school because of this headmaster guy.

Kathryn (12:51)

Ew.

Gina (12:59)

And there's some rumors, like some people say that Mata Hari and this headmaster were actually having an affair or they were involved in some kind of relationship, but she was a child, that cannot be true in my opinion. Anyway, so the result of this was that Mata Hari was left really directionless because this is a lot of instability for a teenager to handle. Like within two or three years,

Kathryn (13:11)

Yeah. Yeah.

Gina (13:26)

Her family went bankrupt, her parents divorced, her mom died, and she left school. That's an insane amount of things to go through in such quick succession, let alone when you're like 15 years old and still trying to figure out who you even are. So Mata Hari started to kind of retreat into her own mind a little bit. She was already a really creative kid. She was very flamboyant, very loud, very center of attention, Leo energy.

So when she escape the reality of her life, she started indulging in these fantasies of becoming famous and getting rich and being glamorous. And she knew that this was the life that she wanted. That's the direction she wanted to go in. But she also knew that she wasn't going to find in the Netherlands. So this goes on for a few years. And finally, when she was 18, she saw her opportunity.

It came in the form of a lonely hearts ad in the paper was written by a 39 year old Dutch colonial army captain who was on leave from the Dutch East Indies and his name was Rudolph MacLeod.

Kathryn (14:40)

Okay. I love that.

Gina (14:41)

Excellent.

Yes. So they set up a date at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. And when they met, Mata Hari knew that he was her ticket out of here because he had to go back to the Dutch East Indies and his wife, whoever he wound up marrying, would go with him. So marrying him would let her spread her wings a bit and see new parts of the world. It's like the feeling that every teenager has of, my God, I just got to get out of here.

She felt that and she saw him as her way to accomplish the getting out part. But also, Rudolph's mom was a baroness. So marrying him, yeah, would automatically give Mata Hari access to the Dutch upper class, but also, and more importantly, a level of financial security that she hadn't had.

Kathryn (15:22)

Damn.

Gina (15:30)

since she was a kid and really more than just security, she would be living in comfort and luxury. She would have a huge house and servants. She'd be able to attend all these dazzling parties. So kind of in one fell swoop, Mata Hari is like, I can be rich again and I can explore the world. Sign me up, like easiest decision ever. And from Rudolph's perspective, he hit the jackpot too because Mata Hari was educated, she was charming and she was also

Kathryn (15:50)

Yeah.

Gina (15:59)

Absolutely stunning. Like, I cannot even put into words how beautiful this woman was. We'll put pictures of her in the YouTube video and on social media, but yes, yeah, look up a picture.

Kathryn (16:09)

Wait, can I look up a picture real quick? I've

never seen her, sorry. Give me two seconds.

Damn, yeah, okay. I get it. Her eyes, deep into the soul, yeah.

Gina (16:16)

Right? Yeah. Just absolutely beautiful. Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Completely agree. So yes, they're both very happy to have found each other. And just six days after they met, they announced their engagement. Yeah, real fast. Mm-hmm. They got married very shortly afterwards on July 11th, 1895. And within a couple of years, they moved to a big, beautiful house.

Kathryn (16:34)

My god.

Gina (16:46)

in Malang on the island of Java. And they also had two kids. They had a son named Norman and a daughter named Louise. And Louise's nickname was Nonna which I I love learning about people's nicknames. Yeah, it's always cute.

Kathryn (16:59)

That's cute. Me too, because

it feels so personal and knowing that that's what they actually went by is nice. Yeah, I agree.

Gina (17:04)

Yeah. Yeah, agreed.

So, Mata Hari and Rudolph were overjoyed with the births of their children, but the state of their marriage was a different story. Because Rudolph and Mata Hari, like fundamentally, they were extremely different people. Rudolph was a bit of a traditionalist, to put it nicely. He expected obedience, and Mata Hari was the opposite of that. She was a...

She opinionated, she was assertive, she was passionate about fashion and gossip and society, and just basically not the stereotypical arm candy wife that Rudolph had wanted. So he started criticizing her constantly and just generally blaming her for anything that went wrong in his life. Like he didn't get a promotion at work or something. It was always her fault, never his. Yeah, mm-hmm. Me neither, we hate Rudolph.

Kathryn (17:57)

Ew. I don't like that.

Gina (18:02)

Rudolph sucks. Permission to hate him. Yeah, fuck you, Rudolph. And of course, despite all of his criticisms of Mata Hari Rudolph himself made no effort to improve his own behavior within their relationship. He was an alcoholic who was physically and verbally abusive. He openly cheated on her and kept a long-term concubine, and he gave her syphilis. Yeah, Rudolph sucks.

Kathryn (18:03)

Okay. Fuck you, Rudolph. Okay.

Rudolph?

Gina (18:32)

Yeah. You gotta give the syphilis, Rudolph, come on. Yeah. I agree, yes. Yeah, hate Rudolph. So it's around this time that ⁓ in letters to her friends, Mata Hari is first seen taking the name Mata Hari. Because up until now, like she had still been Margaretha, but now she's Mata Hari. And I do want to land on that name for a second because

Kathryn (18:33)

syphilis.

I'm a camera... Keep that shit to yourself.

Gina (19:01)

it means something. in the Malay language, it means the sun or more literally the eye of the day. And it's like just the perfect name for her because despite whatever was going on at home, all the horrible stuff she was dealing with with Rudolph, she still always had a sparkle about her. Like she would often accompany Rudolph to officer's events. like dinners and parties and dances and things like that. And everyone just loved her. Like she had

that gravitational pull where she was so charismatic that you would just get swept up in her charm and her energy and her conversation. And once people were in her orbit, they didn't want to leave it. So she just like came alive when she was center of attention, which obviously pissed Rudolph off a lot because he sucks. So life went on like that for a while, but tragedy once again struck in 1899 when both of their kids became very

very sick. We still don't know exactly what happened, but we think that they had contracted syphilis from their parents because it's one of those that like you can get it from pregnancy and birth. And the treatment for syphilis back then was mercury. So we think their kids got mercury poisoning. Or like either mercury poisoning or something like complications related to that. I don't know exactly how it works.

Kathryn (20:19)

⁓

Yikes.

Yeah, ⁓

that's sad.

Gina (20:29)

I know, it's so sad. And there is a rumor that it was actually one of the nannies that poisoned the kids, but personally I think that came from Rudolph trying to shirk the blame, because all the syphilis stuff came from him.

Kathryn (20:41)

That makes sense, yeah.

Gina (20:44)

Yeah. Regardless, Louise survived, but their son Norman unfortunately died of this when he was around two and a half years old.

Kathryn (20:45)

Ugh.

Oh my god, wait, I didn't realize they were so young. That's so sad.

Gina (20:55)

I know. Like little, babies, yeah.

It was, yeah, incredibly sad. And both Mata Hari and Rudolph were extremely distraught over this because even though Rudolph was, and I don't want to sound like an apologist because he does suck, he was abusive towards Mata Hari. Doesn't seem to be the case with the kids. Like accounts say that he was a doting father. He took all of the negative energy out on his wife. So he was like genuinely upset.

when his child died. I don't know how to phrase this in a way that doesn't like.

Kathryn (21:28)

Well,

I see what you're saying. I'm gonna bring it back to talking shit about him and say, like, I wonder if he would have been as sad if his daughter had died and not his only son. This is me just making shit up, but I feel like that's valid.

Gina (21:37)

True, yeah, yeah, because he was said to like,

well, a lot of the things I read said that he was a doting father to Norman. I didn't see a whole ton about being a doting father to Louise, but I don't know. I don't know. I know it did suck. But I think this ⁓ next part will make you happy because they wind up getting divorced. So yeah.

Kathryn (21:50)

Let's just start that narrative. Rudolph's sock.

Okay. sorry. I literally

was just gonna say I love divorce. That's not what I mean, but like.

Gina (22:06)

that.

Kathryn (22:09)

In certain instances, I do love divorce. This is one of them.

Gina (22:13)

Mm-hmm.

This is one of the good divorces. So it was when they, after their son died, you know, obviously they were going through extreme grief, they moved back to the Netherlands. at that point, that's when they got divorced. So they're like kind of back in their home country by this point. And Mata Hari was given custody of Louise. But when Rudolph found out about this, he told Mata Hari that if she took their daughter,

Kathryn (22:17)

Yeah.

Gina (22:38)

he wouldn't give her any money to support their child. Like no alimony, no child support, nothing.

Kathryn (22:45)

I got a lot to say, but I'm not gonna say it just because we all know what I'm thinking. ⁓

Gina (22:48)

sucks. Yeah,

I know. Sorry to bring this energy to femme fatale month, but it does get better, I promise.

Kathryn (22:57)

I love how right

off the bat ⁓ Women's History Month we're like, fuck the husband.

Gina (23:04)

Genuinely though, fuck this husband, he sucked. So yeah, Mata Hari didn't have her own money by this point. So she was in an absolutely horrible position because her options were like, if she

wanted her daughter, like, go back to Rudolph and be with them or be a single mother. And she couldn't go back to Rudolph because he was an abusive piece of shit. And she also just financially could not afford to be a single mother. So one day, Louise went off to go visit her dad and just never came back because Rudolph didn't let her. And there was nothing Mata Hari could do about it.

Kathryn (23:43)

Fuck that. Dude, talk about a villain origin story.

Gina (23:45)

I know.

Right?

Kathryn (23:51)

⁓ Ugh, fuck that. Sorry, I'm gonna stop swearing. But like, not even a mother and I'm getting all like, lion over this. That is just beyond.

Gina (23:54)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

It is truly awful. But I think what I'm about to tell you may comfort you a little bit, because she does get some form of revenge, which you just...

Kathryn (24:13)

You're

doing a lot of emotional rollercoastering right off the bat. Like you're like hitting me with these real rage and do that and then you're like, but I'm going to make you feel better.

Gina (24:15)

I know. I know. And this is

like the fast version of her story too. Oh my gosh, there's just so much. know. So, okay, Mata Hari, by this point, she's back to where she was as a teenager, right? Because she's got no money, she's got no prospects, she has no clear pathway to the security that she would need in order to get her daughter back. And technically she'd...

Kathryn (24:25)

my god.

Gina (24:41)

wasn't like completely out of options on the money front. Like she could have worked in a shop or become like a governess or something like that. But the problem was those things were not compatible with who she was or the vision that she had for her life. So instead she gave Rudolph a choice. And she said, you can either give me my daughter back and the child support that you owe us, or I am going to go to Paris and I will do.

Kathryn (24:50)

Mm-hmm.

Gina (25:08)

sinful things using your last name as a way of like, will intentionally shame you.

Kathryn (25:14)

my god, okay. That does make me feel better.

Gina (25:16)

Powerful, Yeah,

it's a bit better. Still not all the way better, but better.

Kathryn (25:22)

Yeah, it's she did what she could with what she had.

Gina (25:26)

Exactly, that is the story of Mata Hari. So Rudolph refused to concede to her request, so she went to Paris. And years later, she did do a newspaper interview where the reporter asked her why she chose Paris specifically, and she responded, quote, I thought that's where every runaway wife went. So that was the vibe. was like, I'm gonna go out there, I'm gonna figure this out, I'll find my fortune in Paris.

Kathryn (25:31)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Gina (25:56)

and I'll twist the knife for Rudolph while I do it. So like amazing vibes, like I dig this a lot. And it was really a great choice because at this time, similar to now, Paris was seen as an epicenter of luxury and decadence and creativity. So as an aspiring famous person, Mata Hari was really drawn to it. And she was also really drawn to its strong bohemian culture because it celebrated people who lived outside the bounds of normal or

respectable society, which as a divorcee and an aspiring entertainer, that's what she would be doing. So to her, the city of Paris really represented freedom in a way that I think it still does to a lot of people, and freedom is exactly what she had been missing her entire life. So that's why Paris. And it also made me think of you, because I know how much you love Paris.

Kathryn (26:50)

was gonna say I didn't want to interrupt again, but man, I fucking love Paris. In a past life, I know for a fact I lived in Paris. I just know I did. Yeah. my God, what if I did? What if I sinned with her?

Gina (26:53)

Yeah.

Maybe you met Mata Hari at one point.

Maybe.

I hope you did. ⁓ That would be so much fun.

Kathryn (27:06)

⁓ that would

be so cool. Can you imagine? that would be so cool. I know you do. Honestly, I'm already getting big Gina vibes from this story.

Gina (27:11)

I would love to sit with.

I just love sin.

I love that. Thank you so much. Okay, so Mata Hari is in Paris. She's there to make her name and she starts out by giving piano lessons and German lessons as a way to make like some quick cash. She also posed as an artist's model and she did a short stint in the circus where she performed as a horse rider.

under the name Lady McLeod which was Rudolph's last name.

Kathryn (27:47)

Obsessed. Obs-pristine. Ugh. Man, when I get jilted, I'm going to Paris and joining the circus.

Gina (27:49)

Mwah, beautiful. 10 out of 10, 11 out of 10. Absolutely love.

Hold on, let me send you my

divorce Pinterest board. I have all the circuses wanna join on that. I know, it's great. And one day she was talking to one of her friends about, know, yeah, like I've had a few jobs, but I am not quite making the money I want to yet. You know, her friend, being a good friend, recommends that she try something new. And specifically, she recommends that Mata Hari try becoming an exotic dancer.

Kathryn (28:06)

god I love this I love this for her

Gina (28:29)

and Manohari had always loved dancing. And she was a person who was very in tune with her body. She had a lot of the kinetic intelligence. You know how there's a million types of intelligences and body is one of them? She had whatever that is. I'm still not completely sure what it means. But she was basically really good at expressing things through movement, and she was great at getting people to feel things by watching her.

Kathryn (28:48)

you

Okay.

I do not have that.

Gina (28:57)

Yeah.

Me neither. Yeah, and she also knew that she was hot. And she understood that in the society she was operating in, that was one of her greatest powers. And she was like, well, if I'm sexy, why not monetize it? And that's exactly what she did. She prepared an act, once again, under the name Lady McLeod, because fuck you, Rudolph. And it debuted when she was 28 years old.

Kathryn (29:02)

That's cool. I love that.

Gina (29:26)

to instant success for many reasons. The first and simplest reason it was so successful right off the bat is that she just straight up knew how to work a crowd. And specifically, she knew how to work men. When she was on stage, she struck this like amazing mix of coy but flirtatious, carefree but purposeful, and...

She was also willing to take the vast majority of her clothes off, which all of the men were big fans of. And the men who were at this debut show were the right sort of men because they were members of the elite who could make sure that she got the right attention from the right newspapers and the right critics and things like that. Fun fact, ⁓ her debut as an exotic dancer actually took place at a museum.

Kathryn (30:19)

What?

Gina (30:20)

I'm not exactly sure of the details. It was kind of hard to find, but I got the feeling it was kind of a variety, like rich people could pay for entry and then go see shows that were kind of dotted throughout the museum. But she was on like the main stage, I think. And yeah, it was a museum called, it still exists. You can still go there. It's called Musee, French, sorry, Musee Guimay, think, which it specializes in Asian art. And this too, she played off of.

Kathryn (30:34)

Interesting.

Okay.

Gina (30:50)

because at the time there was this really big ⁓ surging interest in Asian cultures in general, but specifically Indian cultures. And since Mata Hari had spent a pretty decent chunk of time in that kind of hemisphere of the world, she thought she knew a thing or two about the dance styles there, particularly Indian styles of dance. So she invented a backstory for herself where she was the princess or a princess.

who came from a line of Hindu priests, and she told everyone that she had studied her sacred dances since childhood.

Kathryn (31:26)

Okay.

Gina (31:26)

And

this was not just like her onstage persona. She would stay in character offstage too, which added to kind of the mystique. And this was a pretty common thing for entertainers to do back then, like build false backstories about themselves and false histories as a way of making them seem more interesting. And people still do this today. I mean, who among us hasn't lied on a resume? This is just that in kind of a cultural appropriation-y way. But I think...

No, I don't- I didn't know how to approach that part of it because it is cultural appropriation.

Kathryn (31:59)

mean, also though, what year was this taking place? This was among the like...

I'm getting like the whole, the way people profited off of the whole Egypt mystique that we've talked about numerous times. You know what I mean? Where it was like, I'm not excusing it, but this was a thing that people were doing around this time. It was like that magical, mystical, like, quote unquote exotic, like whatever. Yeah. That was a thing.

Gina (32:12)

Yeah. Same, same era.

Yes. Yeah, thank you. You phrased that

way better than my bleat of panic, so thank you. Yeah, I should be clear. I've never like lied about being a Hindu princess to get a job.

Kathryn (32:29)

Who doesn't lie to get the job?

I

I'm trying to think of any big lies I've told on resumes now. I've never told a big lie.

Gina (32:51)

I've never told a lie I couldn't back up or quickly Google to learn about if I needed to.

Kathryn (32:57)

feel like the only, this is such a tangent, the only quote unquote lie I've ever added on my resume is like the amount of knowledge I have about something. Like people really are out there thinking I know how to navigate Google Analytics better than I can. You know what I mean? But like, but like I know the interface and I was forced to like fake it for an amount of time.

Gina (33:06)

That's fair.

no one knows how to handle, you know.

That's all you need to know when it comes to marketing tools. As long as you know more than some 60 year old on the senior leadership team, you're fine.

Kathryn (33:29)

This is exactly how I am as successful as I am. Let's move on.

Gina (33:33)

This

is a very specific section of the episode for a very specific type of listener.

But yeah, so she invented this backstory about herself and it totally worked because suddenly what Mata Hari was doing wasn't a dirty dance show. It was a ritualistic event that gave men in the audience permission to sexualize her in the name of cultural enrichment. I have a quote actually from a very cool journalist named Julie Wheelwright who wrote a book on Mata Hari that says, quote, she was seen as the nude of art.

rather than the nude of commerce. Which is such a slick line, yeah.

Kathryn (34:16)

⁓

that's, yeah, that's a, that like really paints a picture.

Gina (34:22)

And that's exactly who Mata Hari was. Like the line between, you know, what people would assume like sex worker and entertainer. It can be pretty fine when you're walking a line like that, but Mata Hari navigated it flawlessly. And because of all of this, she really was lightning in a bottle. And before she knew it, she was touring across Berlin, Vienna, Monte Carlo, Milan. She dropped her married name, started going by Mata Hari again.

Kathryn (34:24)

Mm-hmm.

Gina (34:50)

and she performed for the rich and famous, she performed for royalty, her name was used on cigarettes, alcohol, tons of other items. She was raking in the cash because she started charging 10,000 francs per show, which I had a really hard time converting into modern day currency, so I'm not going to attempt it. No idea. Well, one, okay, here's the range I was given.

Kathryn (35:09)

Yeah, I was like, you're gonna have to help me out with that one.

Gina (35:15)

One website I looked at said that that was like over a million dollars per show. One website said it was like 100,000. So either way, it's a lot of money.

Kathryn (35:23)

Okay. I

was gonna say that's a big old range, but still a lot regardless of whatever it is. Yeah.

Gina (35:27)

A bunch of money, yeah, yeah.

And she was so good at this that she really was responsible for elevating erotic dancing into something that was a respectable form of entertainment in Europe. Like, quote, serious dancers looked down on her, but the critics were totally on board. I have a quote from one that I'll read to you real quick because I like it. One of them described seeing Mata Hari as, quote, an unforgettable spectacle, a paradise-like dream.

Like she had them wrapped around her finger. And as her fame grew, so did her social circle, and so did her pool of lovers. Mata Hari loved love, and she was very open about how much she loved having sex. And the men just fell at her feet.

She had a string of rich and aristocratic lovers. At one point, she was with a French banker who was so infatuated with her that he rented a castle for her, complete with a carriage, horses, and staff. And she was also the long-term mistress of a very rich industrialist named Emile Etienne Guimet, who founded the museum that she debuted in. And those are just a couple of examples. She would flit in and out of these

very advantageous relationships for basically the rest of her life.

Kathryn (36:52)

just still hung up on the rent of the castle for her bit.

Gina (36:55)

I know!

Ugh, with a carriage and horses?

Kathryn (37:02)

just love this offer so much.

Gina (37:05)

I know, right? Like, she went to Paris to make her name and not only did she make her name, she fucking crushed it. She became world famous. And the fact that she dropped his last name too and like reclaimed her agency in that, I love it.

Kathryn (37:10)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Okay, I wanted to talk, I didn't know if you were going to bring that up, but I love the kind of symbolism with that, where it's like, we are now at the point where I am, because she originally, the plan was to shame his name, and now we're at the point where like, we're not ashamed anymore. You know? I don't know, I love that.

Gina (37:27)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

do too.

Kathryn (37:47)

You look like you are floating on a cloud right now.

Gina (37:49)

It

makes me so happy because just imagine being this woman's best friend and like cheering her on as she does this and how like, or you could also imagine being this woman and having that kind of success. I, you know, like, I'm just, I'm so happy that this is the path that she was brave enough to go down and that it had the result, at least at this point, then that it did because she just absolutely knocked it out of the park.

Kathryn (37:56)

Yeah.

I'm fully imagining being this woman. I'm sorry. Like I would cheer you on if this was you as well, but I'm just like, wow.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Gina (38:19)

So she had the money, she had the fame, she had the prestige. She had really achieved everything that she had set out to achieve very, very quickly because by the time she moved to Paris and became super famous, that was like two or three years worth of time. It did not take long at all. So I do want to mention the fact that despite all of this, she did not gain custody of Louise, which was her original goal. I bring it up because I couldn't quite figure out why. ⁓

It could be that she didn't want to bring a child, let alone a young girl, into the lifestyle that she was leading, or it could also be that Rudolph prevented her from gaining custody. Because I don't know what the family law system looked like back then, but just due to the nature of her work, I think they probably wouldn't have let her. And she was traveling all the time, which can be unstable. But the way that a lot of what people have written about this is packaged, it makes it seem like it went straight from

Kathryn (39:07)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Gina (39:16)

I need money to get my daughter back to, I have money now, forget about my daughter. And I don't think that's what happened. We just don't have a whole lot of records showing what did happen. So I just wanted to bring it up.

Kathryn (39:27)

Yeah,

I also feel like I cannot imagine that a court system would

I don't know, there's all that shit about family values and stuff. And I feel like, especially around this time, a woman who makes her living by essentially being a mistress, I can't imagine that they would grant her custody for that. You know?

Gina (39:38)

Yeah.

No, so was probably

something having to do with that, but... And maybe it was both. Maybe it was, like, very unlikely to get custody, and also, I don't want my daughter around all these men who are, probably kind of creepy and gross and, you know, uproot her life when she's at school and stuff. I do get it.

Kathryn (39:57)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

that's a good point. Like it could have, yeah, it could have been as simple as she knew it was hopeless. So she just, let it go.

Gina (40:16)

Yeah, so question mark. Not sure on that one, but I wanted to talk about it anyway. But fast forward a bit. So Mata Hari had been performing as an exotic dancer for about a decade now. And things were starting to slow down a little bit, in part because she did start her dancing career a little bit late in her life, which does feel wild to say because she was in her late 20s. But for a dancer, that is a pretty late start.

Kathryn (40:22)

Yeah.

Gina (40:45)

And by this point in her career, she would have been in her mid to late thirties. Also, by this point, shit had kinda hit the fan politically. Perhaps you have all heard about a little thing called World War I. Let me tell you, the war's so good they did it twice. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

Kathryn (40:59)

Whaaaat? ⁓

I hear we're working on the third.

Gina (41:10)

don't! Buy my tickets today. Pre-book them, babe.

yes, there was the original World War. In 1914, Germany declared war on France as part of World War I escalations. And suddenly, performance and art in France started to take a back seat. Soldiers were being sent to fight at the front, and everyday newspapers were releasing more and more names of those who were dead or wounded.

which meant that suddenly luxurious, outwardly carefree lifestyles like Mata Hari had were suddenly seen as like unconscionable. Like it was a, how can you live the life you are living while people are dying in the mud kind of vibe. And with that came a decline in interest in Mata Hari's shows, also honestly kind of worked in Mata Hari's favor because traveling around like she had to to perform was getting really difficult because she had to account for

Kathryn (41:59)

Yeah.

Gina (42:13)

military zones and war zones. Also, worth noting that when World War I did break out, she was in Berlin. And because she was a Dutch citizen and the Netherlands were neutral in World War I, she should have been allowed to both be in Berlin, but also like travel through Europe freely because she didn't have like an official side on the war. However, as is so often the case with authorities, just because someone has the right to do something doesn't mean that right is respected.

So Germany, the German authorities accused Mata Hari of actually being a French citizen and therefore an enemy of Germany, leading them to freeze her assets and confiscate some of her property, including some very expensive fur coats. And put a pin in that in your brain because it comes back later.

I know, I know, it seems like such an innocuous detail, but it was a thing.

Kathryn (43:09)

I'm sorry, I'm just starting to brace myself. I feel like we're ramping up here. I don't like that all of her assets were frozen. Okay. Okay.

Gina (43:19)

she gets them back, it's okay. Well, she gets money again anyway, because she was eventually

able to leave Berlin once they figured out that she wasn't actually a French citizen. ⁓ But by that point, she had still made her way onto a list. She was officially on the radar of German intelligence. And honestly, she was also on the radar of other intelligence agencies too, because everyone, pretty much across Europe, was in spy panic mode.

Kathryn (43:28)

Okay.

Gina (43:45)

And I probably shouldn't even say across Europe, just like anyone who was involved in this conflict, there was this deep fear that enemy spies were hiding around every corner. And who better to be a spy than a rich woman with access to high-ranking officials and also a career that lets her travel all over the place? So amid all of these rising tensions, Mata Hari performed her last show on March 13th, 1915.

after which she went back to the Netherlands to focus on her new career as a courtesan to the rich and powerful. Which she was already very good at because she had been kind side hustling as a courtesan for a while, but this became like her main focus now. I know.

Kathryn (44:32)

Wild. My side hustle is this

podcast. Yes, join us over on Patreon.

Gina (44:40)

Equally sexy, not as lucrative.

Hehehehehe

Kathryn (44:50)

you

Gina (44:51)

I Scream You Scream at

OnlyFans, but it's just pictures of ice cream.

Kathryn (44:56)

Wait, there's a market for that, I'm sure.

Gina (45:03)

Yeah, so she heads back to the Netherlands. Little does she know she is now being shadowed by intelligence agents from Britain, France, and Germany. And what comes after this we will probably never know for sure. Everything I say, and now and the next episode as well, everything I say from this moment up until we get to the firing range again,

is up for debate. So I'm gonna tell you one version of the story and I'll warn you, I did find it like kind of hard to follow because there's a lot of players in this game. So I'm gonna do my best, but bear with me. In May, 1916, Mata Hari was at her home in the Netherlands when she heard a knock at the door. It was a German official who offered her 20,000 francs to go back to Paris and spy on France for Germany.

Kathryn (45:38)

Okay. Okay.

Gina (45:59)

And that's where we're gonna end part one. It's time, it's time. I'll save the rest for part two.

Kathryn (46:01)

No, I knew you were gonna do that. I was like, no, she's slowing down. She's slowing down.

be continued. Tune in next week. Except not fully next week. Yeah, I was in my brain. I was watching a drama on the television. So yes. Okay. Well, yeah, I don't want to drag this out because you all have to wait until Thursday, but I get to hear it right now as soon as we hit and record and rerecord.

Gina (46:17)

Ooh, Thursday. Yeah.

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Kathryn (46:38)

yes, we're gonna do a two parter this week. So join us Thursday. We will not make you wait until next Tuesday. ⁓ So until Thursday, little spoons keep it cool.

Gina (46:49)

Keep it creepy.