Ep. 43: The Curse of the Pharaohs
Kathryn (00:10)
Hi everyone. Welcome. Welcome, we're so happy to be here. We accidentally cursed ourselves, I'm so scared. So, a little while before recording, my microphone fell apart right in my hands. We spent...
Gina (00:18)
Yeah, a little bit.
Kathryn (00:28)
several minutes doing a wonderful, glorious intro. Gina, you did a great job telling the first part of that story until we realized that we were not recording. So, hi, welcome to I Scream You Scream. We're doing great. Hope you are too. My name's Kathryn
Gina (00:38)
So it's all going well.
Gina.
Kathryn (00:46)
For the month of August, we are covering curses. So don't want to dive too deeply into that because now I'm scared. ⁓ Typically, this month we would be eating each other's least favorite ice cream. Today we're drinking wine because it's been a day. It's been a day. It's been a week. It's been a month. You know, it's just we're doing our best.
Gina (01:05)
Yeah.
Yep.
Kathryn (01:14)
To help us feel better about the fact that apparently we cursed ourselves, we would love if you could leave us a five-star review. That would make us very, very happy, especially since we are in the countdown to our one-year birthday, first birthday, big celebration coming up in October. But yeah, until then, grab a spoon, grab a drink, grab a security blanket, whatever you need to get through this episode, and let's dig in.
Gina (01:43)
Cheers.
Kathryn (01:44)
Cheers!
Gina (01:47)
So I have some news.
Kathryn (01:46)
So Gina, the
sparkle is like kind of gone a little bit, but I'm still just as excited the first time we announced it. What is your news Gina?
Gina (01:59)
My news is that Tom and I got engaged. Yes, yes, it's true boys and girls.
Kathryn (02:02)
YAAA-
Yay. Yes,
she's unavailable, unfortunately. ⁓ We're very excited. Very excited for another I Scream You Scream wedding. ⁓ It's gonna be lovely. I'm so excited.
Gina (02:19)
We're gonna have to do a lot of cleansing rituals before that day, I think.
Kathryn (02:22)
100 % yeah, I'm already like planning the protective charms and energies and spells and etc that we will do.
Gina (02:25)
Hahahaha ⁓
Maybe that month our
like monthly topic could be carefree fun.
Kathryn (02:35)
We'll definitely,
yeah, we'll definitely do a different topic that month just in case. We have to plan, we have to look at our schedule. We're coming to the end of everything we have scheduled, isn't that wild? For those of you out there who don't know, which is pretty much none of you, we plan all of our stuff literally like, I think we had like topics planned eight months out, eight to 10 months out. Yeah, that's true. We changed some things around but.
Gina (02:43)
Yeah.
I know.
Yeah, I mean, I was thinking like a year, yeah.
Kathryn (03:05)
Yeah, we pretty much have everything planned out a year in advance, we're coming to the end of that. So whenever you get married, we'll plan something specific for that month.
Gina (03:15)
12 months of just me talking about marriage. So today I tried to load the dishwasher. I don't know why it's so Minnesotan. I don't fucking know. It's how I'll talk when I'm married.
Kathryn (03:19)
Wait, that'd be so funny. Like, wait, you should. Every single episode? What the hell was that? Oh,
you know what? That actually did happen to me. But it's just because I married Phil. I only hang out with Phil now, unless we're recording. And so, yeah, I definitely sound like...
Gina (03:36)
⁓ okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kathryn (03:47)
the way I sound up here in Wisconsin.
Gina (03:50)
he has the best accent.
Kathryn (03:52)
my God, I hate his accent. I love him very much. But it's because it comes out more when he drinks. So it's like, I can hear it. Like, he'll be like relatively speaking relatively normal, then all of a sudden get a couple of schlitz in that boy and he's like from the deep Northwoods.
Gina (04:00)
Mmm.
I do want to, I want to retell you the story of what I saw in Iceland.
Kathryn (04:18)
want you to retell it too.
That was very important and very exciting and relevant to our lives. So please tell that lovely story.
Gina (04:24)
Yes. So
on the trip where Tom and I got engaged, we spent a few days in Iceland. And while we were there, we went to a lava show, which is basically when you sit in this big amphitheater, well, not big, like small to medium size amphitheater, with people in it and like a big trough coming out of the wall where lava comes from. And you can watch it like go down this little hill thing and then pool at the bottom. And you learn about
how lava solidifies and how it insulates and the different formations it can have and just all this interesting stuff. And there's a, I think they called it a lava handler who had one of those big long sticks like what you see in a glass blowing workshop type thing. And she would use the stick to kind of play around with the lava and she stretched it and had this really, really long, very thin piece of the molten rock. And she said that that is known as Pele's hair.
So call back to Kathryn's episode last week about Pele because she has made her way into geology.
Kathryn (05:25)
All over, all over. And one thing to note that that was really exciting to me because one of the things that I left out of last week's episode, just because we were getting kind of long, is that is part of why the legend grew that she was like in the land because people would see those strings in the volcano and you when...
the lava was flowing and that was like the proof that they would use that she was there. So they would literally see her hair but we know now based on advanced science and lava handling what it actually is but it was known as Pele's hair. I didn't know that it was that was like the term used for that string I just knew that that's what they thought it was so that's cool.
Gina (06:11)
Yeah,
yeah, it was cool. They were explaining like a lot of the geological terminology and where it comes from. And a lot of it comes from Hawaii, which I thought was really cool. Yeah, I can't remember any of it, but.
Kathryn (06:20)
That's interesting. I like that. That's interesting.
It's just cool because when I think of Hawaii, it's like the baby sister of the United States. It's a brand new state. So people here think of it as being very new, but it's not new. It's ancient land. It's always been there. But it's just funny that nothing's real. Anyway, edit that part out.
Gina (06:37)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
I'm for sure keeping that in.
Kathryn (06:50)
I was like about to go down a rabbit hole of like geography, geology, and like all this shit and like I'm starting to get a little sweaty. I just love this episode so much already. my god, I'm just so scared.
Gina (06:59)
⁓ there's so much sweat going on. Well, I mean, on the topic of
warm places, I have a story about Egypt.
Kathryn (07:07)
Yes.
Love it. Tell me.
Gina (07:09)
And I do want to call out that it's ironic I'm telling this story because I just got engaged to a half Egyptian boy.
Kathryn (07:16)
Shout out to Pharaoh Tom.
Gina (07:18)
Yes, yes, pharaonic Thomas. love that.
my gosh, wait. I just put something together. Okay, so Tom's brother, one of his usernames on something, I can't remember what, it might be like his PlayStation name or something, is pharaonic something. And I never understood what that meant. And it just clicked that it's, cause you know, he's also Egyptian. so that just... Yeah.
Kathryn (07:27)
What?
⁓
Tom's brother is also. I guess not always. They could be half siblings. I guess I
shouldn't. Yeah. that's interesting. Yeah. That's the first time I've ever heard that word. So I'm going to clock that one and never use it ever again. But I'm glad I know it exists now.
Gina (07:49)
Anyway.
That's a bit...
Blank, I
encourage you to say it out loud, because it is a fun one to say out loud.
Kathryn (08:02)
Anyway, tell me.
The Curse of the Pharaohs: King Tut’s Tomb
Gina (08:03)
Anyway, ⁓
so I have a story about the Curse of the Pharaohs, which is a pretty broad topic because, shocker, there were a lot of fucking pharaohs and a lot of bad shit happens to a lot of people. So we're going to focus in on one specific story about the Curse of the Pharaohs, which is the discovery of King Tut's tomb. For a little bit of background info on Tutterbutter so King Tutankhamun
or just King Tut as he's more commonly referred to. He's not called Tutterbutter ⁓ He ruled Egypt over 3,000 years ago in what's called the 18th dynasty, which doesn't mean a whole lot to me, but I don't know that much about ancient Egypt. So that might mean something to someone. And King Tut died really, really young, like before he hit his twenties, which is part of the reason why his reign itself
Kathryn (08:38)
you
Gina (08:58)
doesn't seem to have been incredibly groundbreaking. Like it doesn't seem like it was awful, but the main reason people know about King Tut isn't because of his life, it's because of his tomb. Unlike most royal tombs from around the same time or ones that we've excavated from ancient Egypt, Tut's was hidden so well that people didn't find it for a really long fucking time, which is a very big deal because by the time
people started excavating the Valley of the Kings, which is where he was ultimately found. A lot of stuff was already gone because of grave robbers, but King Tut's tomb was nowhere to be found, which made it kind of this big mystery. It became kind of the white whale of Egyptology in the early 20th century at least. And the deal was kind of if you found it, you had made a fucking remarkable discovery.
Meet Howard Carter
Now, the man who is credited as having discovered it is a guy named Howard Carter. He was born on the 9th of May, 1874, and he was the youngest of 11 children. I promised myself I would stop losing my mind about the number of kids people used to have because it's just it was a different time. So I'm just going to drop this.
Just gonna let it go. And I realize in saying that, that I'm not dropping it, but...
Kathryn (10:17)
Do you know, I have to address because in the first time we recorded this, I didn't really react, but it's because my mother is one of 12. And I was recently, sorry to interrupt, but I was recently talking to my cousin Jillian about how we always feel bad when people are like, ⁓ my so-and-so is from a big family. They're one of five. And like, we always win. We literally always win. So if you're from a-
Gina (10:39)
Ha!
Kathryn (10:45)
family larger than 12, let us know because that would be very exciting for me. Yeah. You? Yeah. Yeah, it just, is so many. It is so many, but it's also just Christmas for me.
Gina (10:50)
I just cannot relate to that at all. I mean, I guess my dad had a lot of siblings, but...
Not that many.
Kathryn (11:04)
So I'm so sorry for the lack. I did want to call out my lack of reaction for in the last recording. Because I'm just like, it's funny. We were just having that conversation about how I'm like, I always feel like a dick because like my only response is like, yeah, well, my mom had more like, that's an asshole thing to say. Yeah. Anyway, that is a lot, though, I do want to stress that is a lot of kids.
Gina (11:23)
My mom's sibling count can beat up your mom's sibling count. Yeah, dude. Anyway.
I just feel like it's so many. ⁓ so his dad was an artist and growing up, Howard Carter also had a knack for art as did a lot of his siblings. But Carter's real passion was Egyptology. And that started when he visited a neighbor's mansion and saw their collection of Egyptian antiques. And he was like, my God, this, this is my passion. This is what I want to do with my life. La la la. Also funny side note, the name of that mansion was Didlington Hall.
Kathryn (11:36)
Yeah.
Gina (12:04)
which I so deeply appreciate. Yes. that's just hilarious. So when Carter grew into his late teens, a family friend convinced the Egypt exploration fund to send Carter over to Egypt in order to help a different family friend excavate some tombs. So he was like not technically a nepo baby because his parents weren't incredibly wealthy, but
Kathryn (12:05)
affection. ⁓
absolutely no notes.
Gina (12:33)
they were definitely connected. Like he got involved in this and started doing it professionally because of the people he knew, not because of qualifications that he had really. So he went over there and he did a lot of work using his artistic ability to copy down tomb decorations because photography, yeah, it's interesting. Photography was like a brand new thing at this point. So he would do kind of the old fashioned thing and recreate them himself.
Kathryn (12:43)
Mm-hmm.
⁓ what year was this happening, did you say? Sorry if I missed it.
Gina (13:04)
This was like,
it would have been late 1800s, like very, very late 1800s. Yeah. So Carter's career continues. He grows and grows in the field. And then over the next couple of decades, the ranks as kind of this really meticulous.
Kathryn (13:10)
Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Gina (13:27)
tired-less guy. Like, he just worked really fucking hard. Until 1907, which is when he started working for a guy named Lord Carnarvon, which is also very fun to say out loud. So Lord Carnarvon's real name was George Herbert, which, mwah, again. And he was the fifth Earl of Carnarvon. So he was very, very rich. I should also mention they, Carter and Carnarvon came from England, so there's a lot of like landed gentry and shit going on.
Kathryn (13:45)
Great.
Okay, gotcha,
gotcha.
Gina (13:57)
And Carnarvon was in Egypt because his doctor had suggested that he winter somewhere warm because he had health issues. ⁓
Kathryn (14:07)
Man, why don't doctors
prescribe that anymore? Can you imagine having a doctor's note for a vacation?
Gina (14:13)
I must go to fucking Hawaii, sorry.
Kathryn (14:17)
Let's bring that back. Let's go to medical school, become doctors and start doing that. Yes. Yes.
Gina (14:17)
Doctor's orders, yeah, let's bring it back.
and then write ourselves on a vacation.
I see no flaws in this plan.
Anyway, so just like Carter, when Canarvon saw the artifacts and the history of Egypt, he became enamored with it and he wanted to know more. His interest in Egyptology was really one of a rich guy being like, I'm interested in this so I'm gonna throw a bunch of money at it rather than, ⁓ I have a ton of experience and expertise in archeology and I wanna focus in this specific area kind of thing. So.
Kathryn (14:30)
Anyway.
Gina (14:59)
Carnarvon gave Carter the funds to excavate some tombs near Thebes and then about seven years after that they got permission to excavate in the Valley of the Kings which is the big big deal area as you might be able to tell from the fucking name It's where a lot of the big pharaonic tombs have been found and for Carter This was a total dream come true because he had always wanted to find King Tut
Kathryn (15:18)
Yeah.
Gina (15:28)
He wanted that white whale. A lot of his contemporaries at the time thought that it was either impossible or that grave robbers would have gotten to it already by the time you found it, so you won't find much kind of thing. But Carter was convinced that not only could he find it, but he would find something incredible there, if only he could find the right place to look, which was not incredibly easy.
For one thing, the Valley of the Kings isn't really small. It stretches 24 square miles, which might not seem huge, but that's a lot of fucking dirt and sand to sift through. And if you don't dig in exactly the right place, you can miss something massive, which, spoiler for later, is what winds up happening with King Tut's tomb.
World War I started popping off around this time. So for a while they had to halt the work entirely. So it was kind of just, oh, we're not really finding much. Now there's this whole big goddamn war kind of thing. But then 1917 rolled around and the excavation recommenced. They dug and they dug for five whole years. And by 1922, they had nothing to show for it. So Lord Carnarvon, the Mr. Moneybags behind this thing,
went to Carter and he was like, dude, I know that I'm rich, but I need like something to brag about. You're not giving me anything right now. You have one more season to try and find something. And a season in archeology is kind of like an ambiguous term. It's just like an attempt. So it could be like a couple of weeks. It could be a couple of months. It's like however long basically your funding guy tells you you have. So basically, yeah, so Howard's got one more shot.
Kathryn (17:14)
⁓ that's interesting. ⁓
Gina (17:19)
to get this right is what it boils down to. So Carter is like, shit. Okay, well, I'll go back and check out some of these huts that we found because maybe there's some shit under the huts that we haven't seen because ancient Egypt is so old that it's like stuff on top of stuff on top of stuff and it's all buried. And on the 4th of November, 1922,
Kathryn (17:22)
Okay.
The Discovery of King Tut’s Tomb
Gina (17:44)
One of his workers found a staircase in the area leading down into the earth. Side note, there is a rumor that it was not one of Carter's workers who found this staircase. Some people actually say it was just a kid who was playing, like just playing around, like fucking around away from the excavation area, like that Carter's team wasn't even looking there. And he just happened upon these thousands and thousands of year old.
steps and then Carter was like, haha, that was me, I discovered it.
Kathryn (18:15)
my God, I kind of hate the idea of someone stealing a discovery from a little kid, but also kind of hope that's true. Like these guys are digging and digging and digging and digging and some random kid like kicking around a ball is like, I found it. I kind of love that.
Gina (18:23)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And it's funny
because Carter had been digging in that area. And at one point, he had specifically focused on an area that was six feet away from these steps and didn't realize it. Yeah. So that's how close things can get in the Valley of the Kings. That's why it was so hard to find anything because you have to dig through so much. So they started digging to unearth these steps. And at the end of the stairway, they found a doorway.
Kathryn (18:36)
Mm.
my God.
Hmm.
Gina (18:59)
with King Tut's symbols stamped on the door. So Carter sent word to Canarvon saying like, hey dude, you got your money's worth, come see it. my God, we found something huge. Canarvon goes there and Carter proceeded to chip a hole through the door and then held up a candle to look inside. Another fun fact, Carter chipped that hole using a chisel that his grandmother had given him for his 17th birthday.
So that's kind of cute, yeah. And what he saw in the candlelight blew him away. ⁓ He couldn't see much obviously because candles and darkness, but he could see flickers of gold and ebony, which were signs that grave robbers hadn't hit this tomb somehow. So whatever was behind that doorway was a big fucking deal. But they weren't allowed to go inside.
Kathryn (19:30)
is cute.
you
Yeah.
Gina (19:58)
just yet, because when you go fucking around with super ancient shit, there's like a zillion laws about what you can and cannot do with it. And in this case, they had to wait until someone from the Egyptian Department of Antiquities was present, partially to like protect whatever was inside, but also to make sure that Egypt had control over its own stuff, which is fair, Britain didn't have the best reputation for respecting the property of other countries, it still doesn't.
So the team packed up their stuff and they called it a day. Except later that night, four people snuck in. Carter, his assistant, who was a guy named Arthur Callender, Lord Carnarvon, and Carnarvon's daughter, Evelyn. So they're doing this like against the law. They're breaking and entering into an ancient Egyptian tomb. And we don't know for sure how they got in, which I think is interesting. Some people think they were able to squeeze through that hole in the door.
which I think is the only logical way unless there was like a secret second door or something. But we just we don't know how they got in and we don't know how far in they went. King Tut's tomb, wasn't just like one room, like you enter it and boom, there's the body. There was like hallways and antechambers and a burial room and you kind of had to go through a little bit to find everything. So what they snuck into, we think, is the antechamber.
which is like the area before the burial room.
And that made them the first people to step foot in that tomb for over 3000 years. Which must have been cool, but also kind of fuck them a little bit.
Kathryn (21:37)
I just got chills.
I just got chills for literally both of those two reasons. It's like one, knee-jerk reaction is, I wish that was me. But two, also, that's fucked up. ugh, it's like, that's exciting and a cool feeling and also I hate it. But yeah, yeah, ugh, that's, ugh, yeah, that's weird.
Gina (21:42)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, agreed, agreed. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and they were never actually punished for it in any way. Like it kind of became, yeah, but it's because the enforcement on these rules was pretty minimal. In my opinion, I think it's because shit like this just didn't happen every day.
Kathryn (22:06)
Hmm, that's interesting.
Mm.
Yeah, that's true. Well, yeah.
Gina (22:18)
Yeah, but they never got punished.
But anyway, so the next day after all of this, the guy or just the person, I don't know if it was a guy, from the Department of Antiquities came and then they all finally got to go properly into the antechamber together, which was, it was kind of like the foyer area. It was like the beginning of the tomb. Yeah, like the entryway. Yes, yeah. And they saw gold.
Kathryn (22:36)
That's what I'm imagining. Yeah, yeah. Like the entryway, yeah.
Gina (22:45)
gold fucking everywhere. There were statues wearing golden sandals, were gilded couches, chariots, there were literally thousands of beautiful, amazingly preserved things. There is a quote from a New York Times reporter who was allowed into the room that talks about specifically a throne that they saw, and I want to read it to you because I think it's kind of funny. So it says, speaking about this throne,
It shows not only that the imperial splendor of ancient Egypt was far more delicate and magnificent than was imagined or equaled in the world's history, but also that the later greatest craftsmen of ancient Greece were mere hacks compared to the master who designed and adorned this throne.
Kathryn (23:33)
God.
so fa- listen, we gotta pause because I'm just like glowing over here. Can you imagine? I want a pharaonic tomb so bad. Man, can you imagine all that glitz and gold and ugh, this was- ⁓ I love the comparison to Greek because the whole time we've been talking about ancient Egypt and, you know, blah blah, all the things.
Gina (23:40)
Right?
I'll do my best if you die before me. I know.
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (24:04)
I love that it's a universal experience for young girls specifically. You either go through a Greek phase or an Egypt phase. And I was definitely, I mean, we all loved all of it, but I was definitely an Egypt girly. And I think it's cause of the gold. just like, that's such a vibe. all the, like just imagining my own like pyramid tomb. you're surrounded by all this sand and you're protected.
Gina (24:17)
Me too.
Hehehehehe
Kathryn (24:32)
my god, just that's my dream. That's my burial dream. Those are my wishes when I die. want to be put in a pharaonic tomb. Take me over to Egypt.
Gina (24:35)
Mm-hmm.
If you
die before me, I'll do what I can. But if not, if I die before you, I'll write it into my will for someone to make sure that that happens for you.
Kathryn (24:47)
I know you will, I trust you. Yes. Thank
you, because then it's gonna be in multiple wills, so it's gonna be extra fucked up if they don't follow it. Yes.
Gina (24:55)
Mm-hmm.
It'll be real
fun. And then they'll get cursed.
Kathryn (25:00)
my god, wait. I'm totally cursing people when I die.
Sorry, I just went through my list for a second. I'm back. I'm back. I'm here. I'm back. Hi, this is I Scream You Scream Anyway, I just had to land on that comparison because I've been thinking about the whole time. There's like the Greek girlies and the Egypt girlies. And I was wondering which one you were. But all of it's great. Like all of it's great. But.
Gina (25:07)
I can't wait for that.
Today we're getting vengeance.
God, totally an Egypt girlie, 100%. All of it's fucking fascinating. Yeah, yeah.
Kathryn (25:33)
I feel like you, let us know which one you wear. iscreamyouscreampod at gmail.com. I love it.
The Curse of King Tut
Gina (25:36)
Yes, yes, me too, me too. So King Tut's tomb, it wound up being the best condition that a pharaonic tomb has ever been found in. Like there has not been a better one since. It's one of the most remarkable discoveries ever. But the very day that they entered it, weird things started to happen. So in the antechamber, among the thousands and thousands of amazing things,
Kathryn (25:47)
Mm.
Gina (26:04)
there were these two statues with golden crowns on them. And the crowns had a serpent on them. It was like a royal symbol back in the day. Like I don't, I think it might've been a cobra. It was a snake of some variety. And they were, these statues were standing in front of another doorway that at the time they thought led to the actual resting place of King Tut. They didn't know yet because they were still only in the antechamber. And
know, that day after they had examined the antechamber, which was the only room that they went in by that point, they all went back to Carter's place for like a little celebratory dinner. And earlier in the year, for historical context, so Carter had brought a canary with him to his place because he had been getting a little bit lonely. So he became like a bird man. And while he and his guests were having dinner, you know, celebrating their archaeological genius, blah, blah, blah, whatever,
they heard this big commotion out on the veranda where the canary was. So they go out to see like what's going on out here and they see that a serpent had grabbed the canary and it looked eerily similar to the ones on the statues that guarded King Tut's body. So they wound up killing the snake, sadly, and the canary also died apparently from fright.
and not the snake, it just was like so scared it keeled over. And this immediately got the locals talking about how this was a warning from the dead king to stop fucking around with his tomb. But did Carter listen? Of course he didn't listen, there was money to be made. So the excavation progressed.
And it was a month, actually no, it was more than a month. It was multiple months before they got to enter the actual burial chamber because they spent a ton of time just cataloging all of the shit in the antechamber. And again, there were thousands of things in there. But on the 16th of February, 1923, Carter finally opened the door to the next chamber where they saw the sarcophagus of King Tut.
As far as the tomb goes, the rest is kind of history. It is a world famous discovery that has transcended decades and cultures. There are countless exhibits about it. La la la la la. Everyone knows about King Tut. But the story of Carter, Canarvon, and their team was definitely not over. A few weeks after they entered the burial chamber, Canarvon and Carter, it's hard to say those both, like back to back.
Kathryn (28:40)
I, every time you say their name, it sounds very melodic, but I'm like, I, I'm gonna be honest, I don't know which one's which. I'm just like trusting the process and I'm with you, but like their names are kind of like interchangeable to me right now.
Gina (28:47)
So, Canarvon,
which is the one that sounds like carnival to me, he was like the rich guy. Yeah. Yes.
Kathryn (28:57)
He's... Okay, he is the one funding this. Okay, Canarver
has the money.
Gina (29:04)
And Carter is.
Kathryn (29:05)
And then Carter
is the one, okay, how can I make this association? He's the one carving his way into the tomb. Right? No, because did you say Carter or Carver? See, I just mixed it up again. Canarver is not carving his way into the tomb.
Gina (29:09)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. I should have... Carter.
You
I should have just called him Howard, but I didn't
want to call him Howard because I used to have a cat named Howard and I didn't want to get sad. Yeah. I miss Howie.
Kathryn (29:32)
I know, ⁓ Howie. He's doing great by the way. I'll send you, I have a picture of him for you.
Okay, Carter, okay, but that actually helps because Howie would definitely pull some shit like breaking into a tomb. So that actually does, he's probably in one right now.
Gina (29:49)
he would. I'm not convinced he hasn't.
I could just start calling the rich guy Lord Carnarvon
Kathryn (29:58)
No, this conversation will help me remember. Carter is Howie. Carnarvon is rich All right, I got it. All right.
Gina (30:06)
Yes, OK, yes.
Sweet. So they got into a little fight, ⁓ not like a physical fight, just like a spat, about the bureaucracy of Egyptian authorities. Because Carter was a little bit of a hothead anyway, and he basically just wanted them to stop messing around in his work, like trying to approve things and have control over their own country's history, whatever. And Canarvon was like, mm.
Kathryn (30:17)
Okay.
Gina (30:35)
I kind of get why they're doing it though. And Carter just didn't, like he couldn't understand why the red tape was necessary. So they got into a little fight. They made up by the end of March and Carnarvon, who was the guy that was kind of a little bit on the side of the Egyptian authorities, wound up apologizing to Carter. And within a month Carnarvon got a mosquito bite on his face, which led to blood poisoning, which led to pneumonia.
which led to him dying less than two months after they entered the burial chamber.
Kathryn (31:10)
Mosquitoes are dangerous.
Gina (31:12)
Mosquitoes are a fucking
dangerous, they suck.
Kathryn (31:15)
Let's
Gina (31:19)
I didn't even catch that. I just hate them.
Kathryn (31:20)
I know you
didn't. I know. You were just going to move on. That was gold. That was pun gold. Yes. You're welcome. I got you. Oh, you're subconscious. I thought you were thinking.
Gina (31:26)
Good job, subconscious. ⁓ But yeah, so good
job to you too. We all did great in our own ways.
Kathryn (31:40)
We're a team. Anyway, continue, continue.
Gina (31:45)
Okay, yeah,
so rich dude Carnarvon died and it said that when he passed all of the lights in Cairo mysteriously went out
led to an intensification of the rumors that the team was cursed for entering this tomb. Funnily enough, Arthur Conan Doyle of Sherlock Holmes authorship fame went on record being like, yeah, that's a fucking curse. They are cursed. Like he straight up was like, it's an evil spirit.
Kathryn (32:18)
Listen, if
Sir Arthur says so, then... Yeah.
Deaths in the Team
Gina (32:20)
I believe it.
I'm not fucking with Sherlock or anyone who created Sherlock. But anyway, the point is that it was like global news. People everywhere had opinions on it. And like, you can kind of see why, especially when I tell you about this next part. So it's commonly said that of the 58 people who were present when the tomb and sarcophagus were opened, eight of them died within 12 years. I don't...
Kathryn (32:25)
Nope.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Gina (32:49)
actually think this is true. A lot of sources say that it's true, but when I was looking at the records of the people who were actually there, I think it's closer to six instead of eight. So I don't know if I'm wrong about that and somebody knows better than me, feel free to call me out. But I could only find like six people who were actually there who died within that timeframe. But the number is eight, so jumps back up, if you count people who were connected to the team or the project,
Kathryn (33:00)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (33:18)
who weren't actually there. Regardless, the deaths can be split into three categories. Suicide, not a murder, and maybe a murder.
Kathryn (33:21)
Okay, yeah.
Gina (33:34)
We don't know.
Kathryn (33:37)
Sorry, just the way you said not a murder, I'm like, was it murder? Gina, what do you know? Okay. Okay, yes, yes, yes, yes, okay.
Gina (33:41)
haha
The ones that were not a murderer were definitely not a murderer. I don't think they were a murderer. Okay, I'll tell you about them and then you can be the judge. How about that? Okay, so the suicide
one, it's ⁓ pretty inarguable in my opinion. So in 1924, one of the Egyptologists on the team committed suicide, but according to the rumors, before he passed away, he used his own blood to write a message. And the message said, I have succumbed to a curse.
Kathryn (34:09)
my God.
Gina (34:13)
which forces me to disappear.
Kathryn (34:16)
That's interesting phrasing.
Gina (34:19)
to disappear.
Kathryn (34:20)
Yeah.
That's very interesting to say that will disappear. Because, That's weird. That's kind of heavy.
Gina (34:27)
Yes, not die.
so there's only one person in the suicide category. So that ends the suicide. So why we'll move on to the not a murder category. So like we already talked about, Lord Carnarvon died of blood poisoning, which led to pneumonia. Interestingly, his half brother,
also died of blood poisoning shortly after they entered the tomb. So he often gets lumped in with the quote, eight people who died within 12 years, even though he wasn't technically there, he's connected to someone who was there. There was also a guy named Sir Archibald Douglas,
And he x-rayed King Tut's body after it was exhumed. And he died of an illness no one seemed able to diagnose. Keep that in mind, because it'll come back later. Nowadays, we think it was cancer related, but back then, like they didn't really know, so we don't know.
Kathryn (35:29)
Okay.
Yeah.
Gina (35:32)
So moving into the maybe a murder category, but it's kind of like maybe a murder in so far as it's mysterious and potentially curse related category, that's its government name. So an Egyptologist named Aaron Ember died when his house caught fire. Apparently he could have gotten out, but his wife actually convinced him to go and save a manuscript of a book he had been working on.
Kathryn (35:44)
Okay.
Gina (36:01)
and he never made it out. And the title of the book was The Egyptian Book of the Dead.
Kathryn (36:09)
⁓ my goodness. Okay.
Gina (36:13)
The next person in the maybe a murder category is Carter's secretary, was a guy named Richard Bethel, who was reportedly one of the first people to enter the tomb after Carter did. A few years later, he was found smothered to death in his room.
Yep, apparently he had been keeping a number of artifacts from the tomb in his house, and he also had a series of fires in his home within the year leading up to his death.
Kathryn (36:45)
Interesting.
Gina (36:44)
And the last in the maybe
a murder category is a guy named Arthur Mace who died of arsenic poisoning in 1928.
Kathryn (36:53)
my goodness. What the F? We know all about that.
Gina (36:54)
Yes. Yeah. So a lot of deaths, a lot
of weird deaths, like suspicious, questionable deaths. But the curse didn't seem to kill everybody. While Carter was studying the area, he took it upon himself to like just fucking take some of the artifacts that he found and give them away as gifts. I don't know whether he was given permission to do this, but I don't know. When I tell you what he gave someone, you will not like it.
Kathryn (36:59)
Yeah.
Gina (37:23)
So he gave his friend a mummified hand wearing a bracelet to use as a paperweight.
Kathryn (37:32)
Sure, I know. Don't toy with me. Jesus Christ. That's like every stage of that sentence gave me more and more anxiety. ugh, yeah, that's, I mean.
Gina (37:33)
Mm-hmm. I'm not. I wish I were. Yeah.
⁓ god,
Kathryn (37:50)
At the very base level, that's gross. But like, my god, the disrespect, that's awful.
Gina (37:58)
Yes,
yeah. Yeah, and it is worth pointing out. It wasn't King Tut's hand. It was likely from a different mummy or an excavation site altogether. But supposedly, the bracelet that was on this hand had an inscription that read, cursed be he who moved my body.
Kathryn (38:13)
no.
says it in the fine print. ⁓
Gina (38:22)
And he's like, nah, I'm gonna do it anyway.
Kathryn (38:24)
I
just got this paper that keeps blowing away in the wind. Holy shit. Whoa. That gives me the heebie-jeebs.
Gina (38:28)
What am I supposed to do? I can't use any of the hunks of gold that I've found. Yeah.
Yeah, so a short time after receiving this gift from Carter, his friend's house burned down. Which is like, okay, maybe a coincidence, so he rebuilt the house. And when it was done, the house flooded.
After that, he said, fuck this, I'm leaving this house. So he bounced. We don't know if he ever got rid of the hand, unfortunately. Some newspapers from that time say that he destroyed it. That could have just been sensationalized because this curse was such hot gossip. But Carter himself thought that the curse was bullshit. He literally called it, quote, Tommy Rot. I shouldn't have done that while you were drinking, sorry.
Kathryn (39:00)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
No, it's okay. I was prepared.
Interesting. Okay.
Gina (39:21)
Yeah, yeah, and he maintained that view until he died of lymphoma over a decade later. Yes.
Is King Tut’s Curse Real?
So, was King Tut's tomb really cursed? Maybe. Maybe not. A lot of the supposed victims were already in not fantastic health before they entered the tomb, so medical historians also argue that it could have been something in the air, like
a fungus that had grown in the tomb that kind of tipped some of the people over the edge and they just couldn't recover from it. Which is fair because scientists, they have found a type of fungus called, I did not look up how to pronounce this. I think it's Aspergillus flavus, something like that. Aspergillus flavus. Yeah, right? Yeah, okay. So they have found that fungus in ⁓ Egyptian mummies before.
Kathryn (40:08)
I think that sounds great. That sounds like a fungus.
Gina (40:18)
and it is super toxic and it has the ability to lie dormant for thousands of years. So strong contender, it could have been that, that just like fucked with people's immune systems. As for the blood poisoning stuff, deaths from infections were really common before antibiotics and antibiotics weren't a thing by this time. They were still a few years off of being invented, let alone being widely popularized. And even the lights going out in Cairo thing,
Kathryn (40:25)
Interesting.
Gina (40:47)
Citywide power outages were really common back then. So technically, all of these deaths can be explained scientifically or otherwise, which means that there either wasn't a curse or that it was just a very well-constructed curse. I personally am very intrigued by the idea of a curse that's designed to not look like a curse.
Because I think in a lot of ways that makes it kind of worse. And it's very smart to design a curse that way if you're going to.
Kathryn (41:15)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
and I also think you mentioned this, I think, just the episode.
that the fear of something happening or the anxiety around something happening is kind of a curse in and of itself. So even if these things are just natural things that happened, the fact that people were emotionally affected by it, it's like that is kind of a curse in and of itself.
Real Ancient Egyptian Curses
Gina (41:48)
It's like a self-fulfilling kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Regardless, whether or not you think that the curse is actually real, there have been bona fide instances of actual curses appearing inside of ancient Egyptian tombs, or at least like inscriptions of curses, ⁓ which I should also clarify. There's a very popular rumor that King Tut's tomb had a curse written on the walls. That is not true. There was no curse. But...
Kathryn (41:51)
Yeah, yeah.
Gina (42:17)
I'm going to give you a few examples of ancient Egyptian curses that were really inscribed somewhere. So over a thousand years before King Tut ever existed, there was a high ranking official from Egypt's old kingdom called Kentika Nkheki. No, it, it, I tried to Google how to say this and Google literally had no search results. There were nothing. was like, sorry, nothing for you. Okay.
Kathryn (42:40)
I believe you, I know. I believe you.
Gina (42:46)
Kentika Ikehki was the name. Kentika Ikehki yes. And when he died, his tomb had an inscription on it that said, as for all men who shall enter this, my tomb impure.
Kathryn (42:49)
Okay.
Gina (43:02)
There will be judgment. An end shall be made for him. I shall seize his neck like a bird. I shall cast the fear of myself into him.
Kathryn (43:04)
Mmm.
Okay, that's literally what we just talked about. Yes. Okay. I love that. That's a good curse.
Gina (43:16)
Like the fear, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes, yeah.
Yeah. And one thing I do want to point out is that I know that what I just read seems super gendered. It was like a lot of he and him. More likely than not, that was ⁓ just a translation thing. Like ancient Egyptians, they did have some gendered words, but more likely than not, this was just a Westerner from decades ago who just like...
Kathryn (43:32)
Yeah.
Mm
Gina (43:39)
like made all of the pronouns.
Kathryn (43:40)
Yeah.
Gina (43:41)
So it also applies to women. So heads up girls, do not fucking go into an ancient Egyptian tomb and expect to be okay. We are not immune from this shit. Yeah.
Kathryn (43:48)
Yeah, yeah.
Not that they allowed us to do it anyway. But yeah, don't sneak in.
Gina (43:53)
No, but don't sneak in anywhere. Don't tunnel down into anything. Yeah.
There's another example in the tomb of Anktifi, who he was higher up in the social order than the last guy. He was kind of like a local governor type deal. And when he died, his tomb had an inscription that said, any ruler who shall do evil or wickedness to this coffin.
Kathryn (44:10)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (44:19)
May Hemen not accept any goods he offers and may his heir not inherit. And for context, Hemen was a falcon god in the region that he ruled in. So it was kind of like, if you fuck with my tomb, our local god will fuck you up kind of thing. So I don't know if either of those curses led to an actual instance of someone being or feeling cursed.
But also it's entirely possible. Like these tombs are thousands and thousands and thousands of years old. So there could have been a curse or curse adjacent scenario that we just don't know about these days. But what I find very interesting is, so both of these examples that I just gave, they came from Egypt's old kingdom, AKA the age of the pyramids, which ended around 2180 BC, which is just.
Kathryn (44:57)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (45:12)
boggles the mind. can't, my brain cannot wrap itself around an age that old. And most of the examples of curses within pharaonic tombs come from that timeframe. Now, like I said earlier, King Tut he existed in the new kingdom, which was over a thousand years later, when it was much, much rarer to have a curse inscribed in your tomb.
but it wasn't unheard of. And if anything curses from the new kingdom, like the age of King Tut were even fucking scarier. So there's an archeologist who he's still alive today. And he gave an example of one that he found that said, cursed be those who disturbed the rest of a Pharaoh, that they shall break the seal of this tomb, shall meet death.
by a disease that no doctor can diagnose.
If that sounds a little familiar. Yep. He also found an inscription in some tombs that are kind of in the Pyramids of Giza area, which read, this one scares me the most. All people who enter this tomb who will make evil against this tomb and destroy it. May the crocodile be against them in water and the snakes against them on land. May the hippopotamus be against them in water.
Kathryn (46:07)
Interesting. It sure does. Interesting.
Gina (46:36)
and the scorpion on land. Which are the four animals I am the most afraid of.
Kathryn (46:39)
Okay, listen, let's pause. Let's pause.
Have we talked about crocodiles, you and I, or alligators? Listen, okay. Okay. I feel like I've recently mentioned to you or on the podcast, I have a short list, literally listed out in my notes app of things that I just cannot shake. And one of those things that literally, literally keeps me up at night.
Gina (46:46)
Probably not enough. my god.
Kathryn (47:06)
is the fact that we are not more bothered by the fact that crocodiles and alligators exist in this world. Why are we not more bothered by it? They're literally the most monstrous fucking things I can imagine. They're dinosaurs that hide in shallow fucking water that the average person would like bathe in. You can't see. ⁓ my
Gina (47:13)
Mm-hmm.
Dinosaurs.
Can't see, yeah.
Kathryn (47:32)
Why are we not more afraid of them? Like, what the fuck?
Gina (47:34)
And you talk to the
fucking people who live in Florida or Australia and they're just like, oh yeah, oh yeah, whatever, you know, one job with the grocs. Get away from there! You are insane!
Kathryn (47:38)
Lake Florida? Who ya? Watch out for the crocs. Like, no, you watch out for the crocs! What the fuck are you doing down there? What the hell? Like, move!
Why are we just okay with this? my God. I'm genuinely, fuck that curse. That's the worst one.
Gina (47:53)
fucking
But okay,
a fucking hippopotamus will just eat you.
Kathryn (48:02)
There's,
yeah. Well, they will, yeah, they'll charge you. you seen that TikTok of the people in the boat and it's like coming for them? Girl, I'll send it to you. I have it saved in one of my folders that I watch when I'm feeling a little masochistic. Yeah, it's scary. ⁓ do you not have one of those? Well, they're just things I'm afraid of.
Gina (48:11)
No, ⁓ my God.
⁓
What the fuck? You have a masochism folder? No!
Kathryn (48:26)
and I'm just like, I don't know, I'm not trying to be a little bitch. ⁓ let us know. Do you have one of those? iscreamyouscreampod at gmail.com. I don't know.
Gina (48:30)
Damn, I'm completely fine being a little bitch.
Yeah.
Yeah, send up some of your masochism
stuff. I want to see. I want to know.
Kathryn (48:46)
Let's get back to the Pharaohs. I'm feeling a little exposed
Gina (48:48)
Okay, yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry, yeah. Yeah, okay, so ⁓
more weird stuff. So that archeologist, the one who like found these inscriptions, had his own string of weird bad luck after an excavation. So while he was young, he was excavating a site in Egypt. ⁓ And as part of that, he helped move a few of the artifacts away from the site. That day, his cousin died. Exactly a year later to the day,
Kathryn (49:02)
Okay.
Gina (49:17)
his aunt died exactly two years after the original date his uncle died. So just like, like just strange, strange, like it could be a coincidence, maybe, maybe not, but there is one story of his that I find particularly cursy. So basically he was involved ⁓ in one of his projects. He was involved with removing the mummies of two children. after they were removed,
Kathryn (49:26)
Oh my, that's sad. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Gina (49:47)
he started to see them in his dreams. Like the vibe was very, they were haunting him as he slept. And according to him, to this archeologist, those hauntings in his dreams didn't stop until the children were reunited with the mummy of their father in a museum, which is kind of sweet, but also like fucking curse.
Kathryn (50:06)
Interesting. Yeah.
That feels like a horror movie. Yeah. Or like an episode of something. Yeah, that's interesting.
Gina (50:12)
Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Yeah.
Agreed.
And that's pretty much all I got, which does mean it's time for me to get on my high horse just a little bit. So in the Von Erich episode, I talked about how the real curse there was probably society. And in this one, I kind of have a theory that the real curse might be guilt.
Kathryn (50:32)
.
Gina (50:42)
Because the fact is that, and we kind of touched on this earlier, Egypt was pillaged of its history for a very long time. And even in a time where that was normalized and celebrated, if you're Howard Carter and 99 % of you is fucking thrilled with what you've found, there's got to be at least that 1 % part of you that knows you shouldn't use someone's hand as a fucking paperweight. Like, it's two plus two equals morality.
Kathryn (50:42)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Gina (51:10)
to me, like it's just so fucking obvious. So I'm not saying that guilt caused like, Carnarvon to get blood poisoning, or that the archaeologists family died because of guilt. But when we collectively examine history, and we try to link up events as like, quote, curse moments, maybe what we're really picking up on is just the unease in knowing that we were fucking with something that wasn't ours to take.
And that unease doesn't just belong with Carter or Carnarvon It belongs to all of us, at least to an extent. Like, I'm fucking, can you tell I've had two glasses of wine? I'm like. ⁓
Kathryn (51:50)
Listen, I'm very quiet right
now because I have and I have so much to say and I'm just keeping my mouth shut. Because yeah.
Gina (51:57)
We
as a Western society, we have built museums on the spoils of other people's dead. We have turned sacred objects into curios. So maybe the curse of the pharaohs or just the idea of it, I posit, is so popular because on some level, we kind of think it should be real. You know what I mean? That's where I'm at with it.
Kathryn (52:06)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I do.
there was a disconnect between the fact that there were beliefs that were had and also these were people whose tombs were being excavated. You know, there was a disconnect between that where like people were viewing it as like this magical mystical thing and missing the fact that this is someone's dead body and like their final resting place. And I think still to this day, there's a big disconnect between
Gina (52:35)
Mmm.
Yes.
Yeah.
Modern Context
Kathryn (52:51)
Did you ever go, I'm rambling now, but I'll bring it back, I promise. Did you ever go to that like bodies exhibit? Have you ever seen that? Me too.
Gina (52:59)
I And I, as a
grown adult with a fully formed brain now, I have issues that I didn't know to have when I was 14.
Kathryn (53:07)
So this is the connection I want to make because yes, it feels very strange and weird. And I will say the differences every single person in that exhibit gave their consent to be in that exhibit. I do wonder if people who see exhibits with mummies and other people's body parts that were excavated and added to exhibits
Gina (53:22)
Yeah.
Kathryn (53:37)
who did not give their consent to be viewed thousands of years later. wonder if people feel the same way. Because I felt kind of gross. It was cool. Scientifically, it was interesting and I learned a lot. And I do personally have peace with it knowing that this was part of these people's last wishes. They wanted to be part of this. They signed off on it. was, they gave their consent.
Gina (53:59)
Mm.
Kathryn (54:02)
But like, I'm thinking of all those mummies that I've seen, like in various exhibits previously that that did not happen. That wasn't part of the process.
Gina (54:08)
Yeah.
Kathryn (54:12)
I don't know. It's just, okay, have you seen that tweet that's like, how many years does it take to transition from a grave robber to an archeologist? And I think of that all the fucking time. All the time. Because how many years does it take? Like, honestly, it's fine. It's a fine line. Even us, like, is it okay that we're talking about this? Like, is it disrespectful? Like,
Gina (54:28)
The line between crime and discovery is thinner than we think.
That's what I wonder too. what's
the cutoff for how long ago something has happened until you can talk about it in a curious historical way and not in a sensationalized, I'm trying to get attention off of something horrible that just happened to someone. You know what I mean?
Kathryn (54:40)
I don't know. Yeah.
100 % and I think that that's like I mean Yeah, I'm not gonna say anything because I'm about to fall down a rabbit hole and we've been talking for a long time But I do think Yeah Yeah, I know No, I don't want to go down my rabbit hole I always go down rabbit holes and I always end up editing that stuff out because it's always me just be like I don't know man
Gina (55:03)
But there are no, like, there is no rule of ethics for that yet because the... No, I'm gonna go down a rabbit hole now. So you go down your rabbit hole.
I don't know dude, there's a car dude and it runs on water man. ⁓
Kathryn (55:22)
But did you consider this?
Wait, what?
Gina (55:27)
Oh, did you ever watch that 70s show?
Kathryn (55:29)
my God, okay, sorry. I was just sitting here like, she talking about boats? Are boats a conspiracy? Hold on. So I did used to watch that 70s show, but not in the way that it was always on before something else I watched. So I've seen the last like 20, like 10 minutes of every episode, but I didn't watch it like religiously. Anyway, I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. Basically.
Gina (55:31)
Hold on.
Have you fucking heard, They can be on water now.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah
Ugh.
Kathryn (55:58)
I'm fascinated by ancient Egypt. I want to go to Giza so bad Phil doesn't want to go cause he doesn't like the sun, which is valid, but like it is a bucket list place for me because it just,
Gina (56:05)
That's fair, it gets fucking hot, yeah.
Kathryn (56:11)
There's so much rich history and so much history that's so foreign to the type of history that I have experienced that I would like to experience.
Gina (56:20)
I really want to go to the area where Tom's dad is from. And also to your point about he's from a place called Damanhur. But one thing about the sun, just because you mentioned like being out in the sun, something interesting. So Tom's dad has told me that like people in Egypt, especially in the summer, they don't go out.
Kathryn (56:25)
Where is he from? Oh, go
I do also want- go ahead, sorry. Yes.
Gina (56:38)
during the day. Everyone goes out at night when it's cooler. So you don't have to be out in the sun to experience Egypt. You can wait until nightfall and then everything is still open because nobody wants to be out in the middle of the day.
Kathryn (56:45)
Okay.
That's promising. I'm going to pause here and see if Phil is listening to this episode. Because if he is, I will be getting a text right now about his thoughts on traveling to Egypt.
Gina (56:53)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Excellent. Amazing.
my God, we should like have Egyptian food the next time, like in November when we hang out. Cause Tom makes bangin' Egyptian food.
Kathryn (57:13)
Oh my God, we should.
Gina (57:18)
cook.
Kathryn (57:18)
I know
Tom is really creative when he cooks. Like you guys always have like a good dinner planned. We're usually just like, wanna order pizza again. ⁓
Gina (57:28)
But you have taco pie.
I want taco
Kathryn (57:31)
that's a Phil thing. that's from, that's a Phil brought that into a relationship. That's good. It's almost taco pie season. We had chicken pot pie the other night. Flood night when it was raining after the flood. Yeah. ⁓ it was the best. Yeah.
Gina (57:38)
We are s- ⁓ Kathryn. that's the best fucking meal on like a rainy ass day. We
are so close to fall.
Kathryn (57:51)
So close. Genuinely so close. There have been a couple of times where like a breeze will hit and it's still, don't get me wrong, it's the middle of August here right now. Also, we had recent flooding and it's very humid and gross. But every now and then, shortly after the sun goes down, the breeze will hit just right and I'm like, she's close. She is so close. If you're a quiet.
Gina (57:52)
You can almost smell it. So fucking close.
Mm-hmm.
If you're real quiet in the middle of the night, you can hear.
Kathryn (58:16)
Legend has it she's coming again this year.
She makes an appearance once a year.
Gina (58:24)
Ooh, but
speaking of scary things, do you have a scary on top for me, my love? Okay.
Kathryn (58:29)
my God, yes, I do have a scary on top. Yo,
I'm so deep in the freaking Egypt. I'm just sitting here like daydreaming about Cairo. Like, I don't know why I just want to go so bad to Egypt.
Gina (58:35)
You
Kathryn (58:42)
I will say I will send you a picture slash we will pop in a picture when I get it. But a couple of episodes ago during haunted bar palette cleanser episode, I told a few of my own personal stories and one of them took place in the Keweenaw Peninsula in the UP.
And I do not have an update on that particular story. That was a story where I was going to try to get some security footage. Haven't done that. I've been very busy. That is not in the works. I will do my best. I'm sorry. But interesting enough, the timing was so perfect. I had to talk. I had a whole other scary on top planned, but this one took precedent because the timing was so perfect. So my friend Anna.
Gina (59:12)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Kathryn (59:31)
has a vacation home that is right on the beach of Lake Superior. And that is where Phil and I stay when we go up there. And she also rents it out as an Airbnb throughout the year, whenever they're not staying there, or whenever friends aren't staying there. And just this past weekend, as I was finalizing what my other scary on top was going to be,
She posted a private story on her Instagram telling a story about how Some guests that were staying there had a spooky experience on the beach so I asked her if I could share it and That reminded me that I also had a spooky experience on that beach that I never told you about
Gina (1:00:11)
my god! Okay.
Okay.
Kathryn (1:00:22)
I've never told
anyone about it. I never even told Phil about it
Okay, so, past weekend, my friend, Anna, got a message from, I believe it was the mom of the family who is either currently or was recently staying at their house and she
basically said, hey, we're having a great time, but quick question, any chance is this beach haunted? And Anna was like, funny, you should say that. Yes, I believe it is. Why? So this woman sends Anna this kind of blurry phone picture of her family around the fire on the beach shortly.
Gina (1:00:47)
you
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (1:01:08)
I'm gonna say after sunset, it was that kind of time where it was still light out, but the phone had clearly switched to that like night vision mode. So it was dark, but dark enough that you could still see people not 100 % dark yet. To the right, I'll pop in the picture when she sends it to me. She hasn't sent it to me yet. She said she was going to. But it will be a surprise to you as well as our listeners whenever we get it.
Gina (1:01:14)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm so excited to see it.
Kathryn (1:01:37)
On the right hand side is the fire and you can see some kids very clearly moving. They're like blurry. You can tell that they're like dancing on the fire, having a good time. And on the left is a man that's just standing there. Kind of seems to me like he's got his like arms crossed. He's just, he looks like a guy just like monitoring the fire. And nothing seems that weird except this woman claims
top to bottom that this man is not part of their group. And they do not know who he is or who he was, or where he came from. I know. for context, this is a 100 % private beach.
Gina (1:02:11)
What the fuck?
Kathryn (1:02:19)
in a extremely secluded road that is like deep in the woods and up against the water. Like I would not feel like they can't go up there in the wintertime because it's so secluded that like it's not safe to live there in the wintertime. It's like 20 minutes away from the nearest like anything. They do have neighbors, I will say, that shared.
Gina (1:02:31)
Wow.
Kathryn (1:02:46)
they have like their own private beaches on either side of where Anna's beach is. ⁓ So like you could make the argument that this was someone passing by, but this guy in the photo was not just passing by. Like he was standing there planted feet on ground, like at the fire with them. like the chances of it being a neighbor kind of sneaking in are in my opinion zero, cause like where he is in the photo.
Gina (1:03:05)
Yeah.
Kathryn (1:03:14)
he could not have just been passing through, you know? ⁓ 100 % would have seen, yeah, absolutely. Like this guy is like standing at the fire with them. so she sends this photo to Anna completely convinced that it's a spirit and she's saying that in addition to this, they just kept getting this vibe while they were at the beach. Like they felt like someone was there. They felt like, you know.
Gina (1:03:17)
Yeah, like they would have seen, yeah.
that is so creepy.
Kathryn (1:03:40)
We've talked about this in multiple episodes. Like you just get an energy. You get the vibe when something is like.
Gina (1:03:44)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (1:03:47)
happening and blah, blah. So Anna went on to confirm that there is definitely a vibe at this beach and she believes it's haunted because she has also had a strange experience while she was down there. She said that one time she was sitting down near the water about the same time that this photo was taken. I believe it was like right around sunset or shortly thereafter. So was a little bit dark and kind of hard to see, but still light enough to notice things. And
while she was down by the water, she noticed movement a little ways down the beach. And she didn't think anything of it. Like I said, they have neighbors who have their own stretch of beach. There's also a lot of wildlife up there, like it could have been anything. And then she said that
a little while later, she noticed the movement again. And this time she saw it head on and she noticed that what she was seeing was a strange looking animal that she did not recognize and she didn't know what it was. And it was also like running down the beach toward her. then all of a sudden, dude, right? Then all of a sudden just disappears. It just vanishes in thin Yeah. Yes.
Gina (1:05:02)
What the fuck?
Kathryn (1:05:05)
And I will say, do want to add the disclaimer as kind of an afterthought that,
I'm not going to speak on Anna's beliefs or anything like that, but she is a very, ⁓
She's a very science-based person. She's not someone who's just going to be like, ooh, a ghost. She's not a gullible person
Gina (1:05:21)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (1:05:23)
for her to say a story like this to me holds a lot of weight. But I remember hearing this story. She either told me when we were up there or she posted about it when it happened. she told the story,
Gina (1:05:25)
Yeah.
Kathryn (1:05:40)
I think it happened after the story I'm about to tell you that I experienced because when I was up there, I don't remember knowing any haunted specific, like specifically haunted stories about that beach. Lake Superior in general has a lot of really cool ghost stories and haunted stuff. We'll definitely do an episode about it because there is a lot of really cool lore around that.
Gina (1:06:01)
Yeah.
Kathryn (1:06:06)
In any case, I'm struggling with my transition. I will share with you what I experienced when I was on that beach. So it was the last time we were up there. I was sitting down in the water, literally in the rocks. Water was about waist high, just kind of vibing. I had my swimsuit on, but wasn't fully swimming. I was just chilling in the water, watching the waves.
Gina (1:06:12)
Okay, cool.
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (1:06:33)
looking for rocks, all the things I always do at the beach. the way the property is set up is house is up kind of on this like bluff hill type thing. And they have these stairs that come down from the house to this like patio deck situation. And then it's nice. It is really nice. But the cool thing is, I mean, it is fancy. But the cool thing is they kept the character of the original house. So it's like
Gina (1:06:44)
Mm-hmm.
It's fancy.
That's real nice.
⁓ love
that.
Kathryn (1:07:01)
It looks like it's from like the 80s. I don't know. It's cool. They're yeah, they're really quirky. They have all this really fun, strange artwork. yeah, so it goes down to this little patio. And then a couple of steps that bring you down to the sand and then the sand by the time you get to the water turns into like a rocky beach. So I'm sitting on
Gina (1:07:05)
fuck yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (1:07:25)
rocks where I was in the water. So anyway, Phil had gone first thing in the morning to go disc golfing that morning and I went down to the beach right away. Yes, I know there's always a there's always a course he's got to test out. So I'm sitting down there house to myself.
Gina (1:07:36)
Of he went disc golfing.
Kathryn (1:07:44)
when all of a sudden I heard footsteps walking along the patio and it was directly behind me. So I just assumed that Phil had either come home early or maybe like he forgot something and like didn't want to startle me so he was coming to say goodbye or something like that. Turn around, nobody's there, obviously. So it kept
Gina (1:07:53)
Oof.
Kathryn (1:08:10)
happening periodically where I would be chilling in the water and I would hear what I thought sounded like someone was walking along the patio and like down the steps. But then no one would be there. It wasn't like constant but it was, you know, maybe once every few minutes for the course of several minutes like it probably happened four or five times in the course of maybe 20 ish minutes. I don't know. I didn't have a watch. ⁓
But it was like consistent to the point where I kind of moved up out of the water a little bit because I was starting to think maybe it's something in the waves. Like maybe I'm hearing something in the water, but it wasn't following. It didn't match any wave pattern like it wasn't a pattern. It was like a disruption of the wave pattern. That's why I was noticing it. And then I kept not seeing anyone. So I started getting a little freaked out at that point.
Gina (1:08:45)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (1:09:04)
And then it started to progress where like, I started hearing the sound of footsteps in the sand. So it was almost like not to be dramatic, but felt like it was getting closer to me. And it got to the point where I started getting genuinely scared, not from a paranormal standpoint, but I was like, is there like a predator around? Like, because I'm hearing something, but I'm not seeing anything. Like, what could that be?
Gina (1:09:14)
Ooh, yeah.
Yeah.
Kathryn (1:09:33)
Then at one point, this had probably been happening, like I said, maybe 15, 20 minutes, I heard the sound of someone. It sounded like someone had gone for a beach run. It sounded like someone running in the sand. And I turned around like fully expecting a neighbor or something to be there and they weren't. And it was at that point that I was like, fuck this. I noped out of there real fast because I did not like a running ghost. That's like a hard no for me.
Gina (1:10:01)
No.
Kathryn (1:10:03)
So that was it. I mean, that was my story. I literally got up and I went in the sauna because I was like, I'm not gonna be at the beach any longer. ⁓ But.
Gina (1:10:13)
But the sound
of like, we had another story like this. think it was running footsteps and like the sound of someone on a deck. That's such a specific sound. Or like on the patio or whatever you called it, yeah.
Kathryn (1:10:18)
like running footsteps. It was.
I don't remember that one. Yes. And it wasn't on the
patio yet. And it wasn't even part of the reason I was so freaked out is it wasn't just the patio. It was like I could hear the sound of feet going from wood to sand. Like it sounded like, you know how it switches from that like click, click, click to like crunch, crunch, crunch. That's what it was. Like it sounded like someone moving down the stairs. Dude, fuck that. I was so freaked out.
Gina (1:10:42)
Yeah.
Yes.
dude, fuck that.
Kathryn (1:10:54)
was freaked out because I was by myself. Like there weren't like negative vibes. It was just like, there was a part of me where I was like.
Gina (1:10:57)
Yeah.
Kathryn (1:11:02)
Is there someone there and they're like hiding from me? You know, like it was like, it was that clear. The sound was that distinct that I was sure every single time I was sure it was going to be either Phil or the neighbor or an, you know, maybe there was like a bunny hopping around like something, but there wasn't anyway. So that's the story of my friend Anna's haunted beach in the Kiwina peninsula.
Gina (1:11:05)
Yeah.
Something.
Pfft! Anyway!
Okay.
Kathryn (1:11:30)
⁓ shout out to Anna for letting me share these stories. I will, hopefully she sends me the photo because it's so clear that I'm almost skeptical of it, that I'm like, this could just be some guy and they're fucking with her. But because I had my own experience with her beach, I'm less skeptical about it, but it is, it is interesting. It is one of those photos you have to kind of take her word that it isn't just some guy because it is so clear.
Gina (1:11:35)
Yeah.
Kathryn (1:11:59)
that it literally looks like just someone part of their group. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Hopefully I get it before we put the video up. But if not, we'll share it eventually. She did say she was going to send it. So anyway, yeah, that's it. That's the story. I know. Oh, yes. Oh, yes, I like that. Cool.
Gina (1:12:01)
I really wanna see that picture. Okay, yeah, when you have it, send it to me so I can see. Okay.
Yeah. ⁓ okay. What a great scary on top. What a delicious scary on top. That was delectable.
Kathryn (1:12:23)
Well, thank you for sharing the Curse of the Pharaohs. I hope that this is the last episode of ours that is cursed. Let us know if any of you have ever experienced a curse. we do have what, one more cursed episode coming at you? Hopefully that'll be it. Hopefully next month's a little clearer. But yeah, until next week, keep it cool.
Gina (1:12:29)
Me too.
We have one more.
Mm-hmm.
Keep it creepy.
