64: El Chupacabra
Gina (00:11)
Welcome one, welcome all to I Scream, You Scream, your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories, mysteries, and also paranormal perplexities. I'm Gina.
Kathryn (00:21)
And I'm Kathryn
Gina (00:23)
And this month we are talking about cryptids while we eat sherbert, which I'm no longer afraid of saying. I've grown past it.
Kathryn (00:31)
just in time for our last Sherbert episode. We've grown. And this will be the last. All right, what else do we have for the people?
Gina (00:35)
Yeah, so this is my first character arc of the year. ⁓
Well, not only am I going to become
a worse person from here on out, but also friendly reminder that we post a lot of cool stuff on Patreon. So feel free to join us if you'd like to become a member. Link is in the show notes. But hey, if that's not in the budget this year, we totally get it. You can also leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you send us a screenshot to iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com, we will send you some lovely ice cream uscream stickers as long as you give us your mailing address. Otherwise.
we will have to throw them into the ether and there's really no telling if they'll make their way to you. So please remember to send your address if you do choose to do that. Until then, grab a spoon and let's dig in.
Kathryn (01:24)
You know, bought this sherbet for a previous episode, think, ⁓ flavor. I think it was when we were doing or something. I think I did like a mimosa float. And so we've done two months with this now and I still have that big old tub. Like there's still so much.
Gina (01:33)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
How much do you have left? Like over half?
Kathryn (01:46)
yeah, there's only like a third gone. I don't know why Phil's not eating it. Like yeah maybe I'm learning he doesn't like sherbert.
Gina (01:51)
Maybe he's not a Sherbert guy.
Aw, you guys are still learning about each other. Or you could also just get like a bunch of Prosecco or bubbly or something and just have a crazy weekend. Yeah, nice. Well, speaking of what we're eating, do you wanna rate our ice cream?
Kathryn (02:01)
adorbs.
That's what I'll be doing. Yep, that's what I'll be doing.
Yeah.
I forgot we do that! Wait, that's fun. Okay. ⁓ gosh, I'm not prepared. I mean, it's Rainbow Sherbert. I feel like...
Gina (02:18)
Yeah
Kathryn (02:25)
I mean, it's gotta be a five, right? It's just like, it's Rainbow Sherbert, you know? Like, just is. You can't really put a number on it. So I'll just do five. Five out of five, I don't know. It's Rainbow Sherbert. What could go wrong with Rainbow Sherbert, you know?
Gina (02:28)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Okay, there we go. I like that
your justification for it, I think three times now has been, it's Rimbaud Gerber.
Kathryn (02:45)
Yeah, like what else
is there to say? Like, I can't be like, I can't describe why it's good. It just is Rainbow Sherbert. Like, I don't know. It's Rainbow Sherbert. Every time I open my mouth, I try to say something different, but then it's just still Rainbow Sherbert. So there you go, five out of five. What's yours?
Gina (02:48)
Guess what it is?
That's fair.
When we eventually
do merch, I'm gonna get you a shirt that says, it's Rainbow Sherbert. ⁓ Mine is not a five, mine's like a two.
Kathryn (03:09)
Excellent.
Well, it's not rainbow. It's not rainbow sherbert. It's a raspberry sherbert. So, no, why is it just a two?
Gina (03:17)
It's not Rainbow Sherbert. Need I say more? It's not Rainbow Sherbert.
It's, you know what, it really is just a personal preference thing. I've had this thing since I was a kid about dessert and fruit and how I don't think they belong together. I've grown past that in a lot of ways. Like apple crumble is my favorite dessert in the world. I love like a blueberry pie and a peach cobbler and things like that. But I just can't get past an ice cream that is only like fruit flavor.
Kathryn (03:30)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
I blueberry pie. Yeah.
That's interesting. Okay, didn't that? Well, we're two learning things about each other, so I didn't know that about you. Okay. Yeah.
Gina (03:54)
Yeah.
Yeah, like I do, I like strawberry ice cream. Like that's nice because it has the chunks of
strawberry in it so there's some textural variation, but when it's just a flavor. And I will say the brand I got, Babu Gelato, is delicious. Like it's very creamy, very smooth, but it's just not. Like I would take a cookie dough over this any day of the week.
Kathryn (04:14)
yeah.
Hey, that's interesting, because I don't want to say I'm the opposite, because I love a cookie ice cream. But there's very little I love more than like, I fuck, it's rainbow sherbet. Like that's three different fruits. Yeah, like I love a lime sorbet or something like that. That's like one of my favorite, like a key lime pie is one of my favorite things.
Gina (04:31)
Hahahaha
Ooh, that sounds good.
Key lime pie is a whole other story. That's delicious. Ugh, it is so good. I miss key lime pie.
Kathryn (04:45)
It is, right? Why is that shit so good?
my god.
Yeah, so good. Okay, that's interesting. I didn't know that about you. Okay. All right.
Gina (04:57)
Yeah, well, you
I'm a complex character. Sometimes I like fruit, sometimes I don't. You'll never know.
Kathryn (05:04)
Yeah, just constantly
living on edge with the fruit desserts. You know what I hate, speaking of fruit dessert? My best friend growing up, her mom used to make it all the time. And I always had to pretend that I liked it, because I was shy and didn't want to have to tell her how much I hated it. Fruit pizza. Did you ever have fruit pizza? So fucking gross. No offense to anyone who loves it. It's like,
Gina (05:11)
What?
What? No. What is it?
Kathryn (05:28)
kind like a sugar cookie crust. It's probably some pastry, but she always used like, she'd have like a roll of sugar cookie dough and roll it out to make like a pizza shape. And then it was this like fruity yogurt-y type base. And then it was just sliced up fruit. Like she'd do like.
Gina (05:39)
Mm-hmm.
You lost me at the yogurt-y
base.
Kathryn (05:51)
It's one of those things where like, it was in 90s and I wonder if she was like, just her mom was like dieting. So that's the dessert they had. Do you know what I mean? Like it very much tasted like that. But she would have it for like birthdays and stuff. every time I like, anyway, I was triggered because we had, we got a fruit dip mix for Christmas
Gina (05:57)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mmm.
Kathryn (06:17)
which sounded really good, but the cover, like the picture on the cover of the package was all of the fruit that used to be on this fruit pizza. And it just looked like that minus the crust. And I genuinely got that taste in my mouth when I saw this dip mix, because
Gina (06:27)
⁓ no.
Kathryn (06:37)
I like, was one of those moments where I was sent back to like 2002 and like in this kitchen watching this fruit pizza be brought out and like trying to keep like a positive look on my face. Anyway, so that's my experience with fruit and dessert. I don't know how we got here.
Gina (06:41)
Mm-hmm.
That's so close to being amazing though, because instead of a yogurt-y base, if it was a custard and then you had some syrupy fruit that you've put strawberries or sugar on them, that could be really good.
Kathryn (07:00)
Yeah.
Yeah...
strawberries and sugar is good. But like, stop there. Just a bowl of strawberries and sugar is good.
Gina (07:12)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
fresh strawberries.
Kathryn (07:20)
Farm fresh strawberries. My mouth is watering so bad right now. You know how I feel about a little carton of farm fresh strawberries. my God, so good. There's so much. We've talked about this on the podcast before. I know we have. It's so different than grocery store strawberries. It's just different. It's so good. my God. Ooh, yeah. Anyway, what are we talking? Sorry, okay. What are we doing? Ice cream, okay. So wait, end of the month.
Gina (07:21)
Yes.
of the road? Ugh.
it is. Yeah.
⁓ ice cream.
Kathryn (07:50)
That means it's time to announce next month. And if I remember correctly, you made me announce this month and you promised me you would announce the next three. I have not forgotten. So batter up, baby. I literally did, I did forget until this moment. I was about to say who's going to announce and then my brain remembered.
Gina (08:02)
⁓ I did wonder. I wondered if you were gonna remember.
Me, me for the next three months. Okay, guys, here's what we're doing. So next month is February and to celebrate the month of February, we will be telling stories about or connected to New Orleans. Yay! Love New Orleans.
Kathryn (08:15)
You
Yay! We're doing it! Have we talked about it enough?
Gina (08:35)
And to accompany our episodes about New Orleans, we're going to be having coffee ice cream with bourbon. Open to interpretation on how we do that, but coffee plus bourbon equals next month.
Kathryn (08:45)
I love it.
As they say. Excellent.
Gina (08:51)
That's what say.
Yes, I'm very, very, very excited. We have some really interesting topics queued up for next month.
You're like, do we? I don't know.
Kathryn (09:00)
I'm trying to remember what mine are. I'm like, no,
I'm, I know you do. This is another one where I don't think I know either of yours. I don't think I do. If I'm remembering the schedule correctly. Yeah, I don't think I know yours. So that's exciting.
Gina (09:11)
Excellent. Good.
Well, buckle
up, buddy. Strapping, get ready for a hangover.
Kathryn (09:24)
Okay,
my gosh, right? Wait, we've been doing a lot of boozy ice creams. Is that true or am I making that up? I don't know if that's true or not.
Gina (09:35)
No, we have
and we're also, we're fine. Nothing is wrong.
Kathryn (09:40)
yeah, yeah,
should we tell people we're emotionally stable?
Gina (09:44)
Yeah. Wink, wink. No, but like we totally are. And...
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. Let's just move right past it. Let's move past it. I want to call out that I'm wearing something very special today. So I am wearing a beautiful Ghost Huns sweatshirt that I got for Christmas from my beautiful co-host, Kathryn. So thank you so much for the lovely sweatshirt and the tote bag. I got a tote bag too and I love it.
Kathryn (10:05)
Yeah! ⁓ my gosh.
Okay, yes, I did that on purpose because you told me once that you, doesn't this sound so dumb? You love tote bags and more importantly, also use them. Cause we all love a tote bag. Everyone loves a tote, everyone has totes, but you're the only one I know that like actually regularly uses them. I have a whole ass pile right over there. We'll never move from that spot ever. So I was really excited to have an excuse to buy someone a tote bag that.
Gina (10:31)
I do.
Mm-hmm.
You
Kathryn (10:54)
they will actually use. And I'm very excited that you actually got the order because I did not receive any confirmation of that purchase in my email. And like I probably did, it probably just went to junk, but like in my head, the order didn't go through. So I was like panicking about getting you a Christmas present. And then one day you were like, wait, is this from you? And yeah, it was.
Gina (11:07)
Mm.
Yeah, because it didn't come with anything.
Kathryn (11:19)
It didn't give me any option.
So I was going to text you and be like, hey, you have something on the way. You'll know it's from me. But I chose not, I didn't do that because I thought the order didn't go through. I'm just like, you just got this like mystery package one day. It was from me.
Gina (11:33)
Well, I think my
first clue was that it was addressed to Dr. Gina, which is always, it's always a giveaway.
Kathryn (11:42)
Wait, was it not Esquire this time?
Gina (11:44)
Now it wasn't Esquire this time, but that's okay. That title's optional.
Kathryn (11:48)
sons.
You are so there are several websites, not several. I don't like sit around sending you gifts all the time, but like I will still, I will still get like promo emails from places where I have sent you things and it'll be like, hi Dr. Gina Esquire.
Gina (12:09)
Perfect, yes.
Kathryn (12:11)
So yeah, there are several websites out there where you have like many, many, many profitable careers.
Gina (12:20)
tell you about
the time. had a, I think it must have been one of the times where I was either flying from the US to the UK or vice versa. And I booked a ticket under the name Baroness Gina, and then my last name. And I didn't realize, okay, okay, cool. That makes me feel better because that, I was panicking about that. Because once I booked the ticket, it like wouldn't let me remove the title. And I was nervous about it not matching my passport. And I was like, they're not gonna let me in.
Kathryn (12:34)
You did, that's where I got the idea.
Yeah.
Just take a Sharpie on your passport. I don't know what the abbreviation for a Baroness is, but.
Gina (12:52)
Me neither.
Kathryn (12:53)
Wait, can I tell you something real quick? This just happened real time. I have my daily farmer's almanac ⁓ calendar thing. I sent you a picture of it when it was a cheese thing, but I just realized I looked over and it's a fun fact about how to get more vitamin C in your diet. And the pictures are like fruit pizza, fruit. It's like actually got that vibe. It's got like...
Gina (12:55)
Yeah. What?
Mm-hmm.
No, really?
Kathryn (13:21)
kiwi, strawberry, like it's like the fruit that occurs on fruit pizza. This pizza is haunting me. It's always the kiwi. I feel like the kiwi is, the kiwi is the key for like the fruit pizza flashbacks.
Gina (13:24)
It's always the kiwi. It is always the kiwi.
key. Whee! Yes.
Kathryn (13:40)
I'm not gonna make it through this episode.
Should we start? Should we start? Because I'm not gonna be able to get, I'm not gonna be able to transition. Kiwi. Excellent.
Gina (13:49)
Yes, I want to be regaled.
Can you tell me a story, please?
Kathryn (13:55)
One thing I did not mention in the last episode that I want to remember to mention now is both of my episodes this month were chosen by our
Patreon members. just as like a little reminder, we do polls over there and every month you can vote on which topics we cover. I didn't have any idea what I wanted to do for this month. So both of my topics this month were chosen by you all. So thank you for doing that work for me. we get going, I do have a question for you. So we are talking about...
Gina (14:28)
Okay.
Kathryn (14:30)
Chupacabra today and I was just kind of curious about your specific experience with the Chupacabra. A, are you familiar with it slash the story at all?
Gina (14:45)
familiar with the word slash name Chupacabra. I'm pretty sure it's a like southwestern thing, I think. I don't feel like it was a big thing where I grew up. Maybe it was. I don't know. And that's it. I don't know the story. I don't know the lore. I know nothing.
Kathryn (14:50)
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Did you know about it when you were little? Like, did you hear about it when you were young?
Gina (15:06)
Yeah, but I never understood what it was.
Kathryn (15:09)
Okay, if you had a guess.
When would you get based on like what you do know? And it's okay if you have no guests, but if you do have a guest, when would you guess the first sighting of the Chupacabra was?
Gina (15:24)
first sighting.
Kathryn (15:25)
And it's okay if you're like, have no clue, that's totally fine too.
Gina (15:29)
So I don't have a clue, but I'm gonna run my mouth anyway. I think that based on the stories that we've heard so far this month, I think all of the first sightings for all, I think I'm correct about this, I think they were all 20th century. So I'm gonna go 1956.
Kathryn (15:32)
Okay, love it.
Okay, so I warned Gina ahead of time that she was gonna have a trivia question and it is very specifically because I am astonished to have learned that the first official sighting was in 1995, the year of our Lord Gina. Yes.
Gina (16:04)
What?
It is the year of our Lord, Gina, thank you. Wait, am I? Okay.
Kathryn (16:10)
Yeah, you're the same age as the Chumacapra. Allegedly. We'll get into all that. Are you the Chumacapra?
Wait, that is... Listen, that's like a whole other theory that I didn't even get to. Man, I'm gonna be so rambly this episode. I already warned you. I have so many theories. That's another one that will take like all day. But yes. Right? Thank you. Okay. So I did grow up.
Gina (16:27)
I'm shocked by that though, the 90s feels so late.
Kathryn (16:36)
hearing about the Chupacabra, but similar to you, I never had any idea what the hell it actually was. ⁓ We'll get into all that a little bit later. But yes, the first official documented sighting of the Chupacabra was in the year 1995. It ⁓ all began in the springtime. It was just like a normal day on a small island. What? Let me start again.
To the top. Hi, welcome to Ice Cream You Scream.
Gina (17:12)
gonna back.
Kathryn (17:13)
on the island of Puerto Rico. ⁓ And basically it was just some sheep farmers and goat farmers went to check on their herd. think it was like in the morning or maybe like late at night, early morning. And they discovered that multiple goats were dead, seemingly out of the blue. And at first glance, they couldn't figure out what had happened to them. It appeared like they just...
dropped like nothing you know there were no signs of anything sinister or you know no predators or anything like that
they couldn't figure out what had happened, but upon further inspection they found several small little puncture wounds in the animals and it appeared that they had been completely drained of blood. So
Naturally, the farmers are panicked. Not only were they out several farm animals, which equals a significant loss of income, but they had never really experienced anything like that. Puerto Rico doesn't really have a lot of natural predators. There aren't any like big cats or bears or anything like that like we have here in the U.S. So it felt really strange and unusual that this could have happened just kind of out of the blue.
particularly the fact that it appeared to be some type of vampiric predator. That was very confusing and alarming to a lot of people. as it tends to do, especially in small island communities, began to spread very quickly. And for several months, there would be numerous animals found allegedly drained of blood on farms across the northeastern part of Puerto Rico.
and then it would spread to other parts as well. But I think that's where it was initially kind of congested. Then August of that same year, so that initial happening was in March. And then by the end of the summer, we would finally have the first official eyewitness account of the creature that people thought to be responsible for all of these farm animal killings.
A woman named Madelyne Tolentino claimed that she saw something strange when she was at her mother's house in, fuck, I practiced this. What is it? Canovanus, I think it's called. I'm so used to like, whenever I practice pronunciation, I always go into it like, yeah, I know this. And then I read it and my brain just goes like, is that?
Gina (19:43)
And there's a huge
difference between when you're practicing saying something and the safety of like just reading through your episode versus saying it when we're recording. It gets 20 times scarier.
Kathryn (19:53)
the thing here like if I was just in a conversation with a human I would just be able to say it normally but because I'm recording myself saying it I'm like canavanas like what is this I think it's pronounced canovanas so anyway what happened was she was inside at her mother's house and all of a sudden she saw something peeking through the window and she I know right
Gina (20:02)
Yeah. Nailed it.
Kathryn (20:22)
And she described it as being roughly three to four feet tall and having long scaly limbs, giant red alien-like eyes, always with the giant red eyes. And it had no ears and kind of reptilian-like features with these giant spikes all the way down its back. She, of course, screamed. It freaked her out. And when she did, she startled this creature and it leapt away.
Gina (20:33)
Yeah.
Kathryn (20:51)
out into the jungle. Madelyne was hesitant to come forward about this at first because she was really nervous that people would think she was crazy. But eventually she did talk about it because it was unlike anything she had ever seen before. And she felt like she needed to warn people about it. Like she thought it could be connected to these farm animal killings. And also, even if it wasn't, it was like
That was freaking weird. Like people should know that that thing's out there. she ended up working with a local UFO researcher named Jorge Martin and
She basically described the creature to him and they worked together to sketch it out. And that's when we had the first ever visual of the creature that would become known as El Chupacabra, which translates directly to the goat sucker. And I was going to try to just push past it. I knew you weren't going to me. Yeah.
Gina (21:47)
Okay, listen, that is kinda funny. The goat sucker.
Kathryn (21:56)
Yeah, yeah, it's a direct translation. ⁓ And fun fact, you're gonna love this. If you love the name, you're gonna love this. The name Chupacabra was coined by a comedian who was like doing a bit on it whilst all of this was happening summer of 1995. Yeah.
Gina (22:10)
my gosh.
That's such a fun fact.
Kathryn (22:18)
Yeah, I don't remember the guy's name. I should have written it down. We'll put it in YouTube or something. Yeah, so this all started with like a comedy bit. Basically, he was like probably making fun of her for seeing it or something and like coined the name Chupacabra. Like, isn't that wild? Yeah. Let me share with you. I meant to share the
Gina (22:31)
Mm.
is wild, I love that.
Kathryn (22:40)
photo.
Okay, so this is the sketch that they put together of it. So this is what she allegedly saw.
Gina (22:47)
Aww, it's cute and it looks like an alien.
Kathryn (22:50)
That's
not right. Doesn't it look like a cute little baby turtle or something?
Gina (22:55)
cute little guy.
Kathryn (22:57)
I think he's kind of cute.
Gina (22:59)
He is
Kathryn (23:00)
like aggressively hugging me right now. I don't know what's going on with her. Yeah, sorry, this is distracting. I just looked at my, at my like video. I'm just like, is this like Pete Cat Lady?
Gina (23:02)
I know, it's cute.
No, it's not distracting.
Yes, my child.
Kathryn (23:17)
Cat Mom multitasking, alright. So.
Gina (23:19)
What's that song
that's like, a single mom who works two jobs.
Kathryn (23:24)
A working
mama, a single mama works two jobs and that's a kid's and that's a... she is back, she's gone. She's like, fuck this and fuck you. All right. She's still in my lap. She's gonna, she'll bounce in a second. Okay. So anyway, as previously implied by the local UFO guy getting involved, people were like, okay, there's some real shit out there.
Gina (23:27)
There we go.
like, fuck you.
Kathryn (23:52)
Obviously one of the early explanations was alien, obviously. But people were like, okay, someone saw something, we need to figure out what's actually happening, especially if it is interfering with the farms around here.
So people put together search parties and as the month and eventually years went on, the alleged sightings would not stop. And eventually in those early days, there would be upwards of 200 sightings of this creature.
Gina (24:24)
Wow.
Kathryn (24:26)
Yeah, and I don't know exactly what timeframe that would be in, but it was like once people had a name and an image to look for, it was just like one after the other. People were quote unquote seeing this thing. And the sightings weren't just confined to Puerto Rico. As the years went on, they would spread to numerous countries throughout the Americas, including Mexico, Chile, Colombia, Brazil and the United States.
And the first sighting in the United States took place in Miami, Florida, always with the Florida. Right? Miami was so weird to me. Like, I don't know. Maybe that's not that weird. But yeah, I thought that was strange. You'd think it'd be like, I don't know, like a swamp somewhere or something. You know what I mean? Miami's weird.
Gina (24:59)
What? In Miami?
Yeah.
Yeah,
I agree. ⁓ When I think of Miami, I don't think Chupacabra. But I also didn't think Chicago when I thought Mothman, so.
Kathryn (25:28)
Yeah,
that's true. And you know, it will make sense in a second to your point from way earlier, what your memory of the Chupacabra is. As we moved deeper into the late 90s, early 2000s, the American Chupacabra sightings would move away from the Atlantic Gulf Coast type area to the southwest, which
Gina (25:51)
Okay.
Kathryn (25:52)
is what you remember hearing about. And that was my kind of experience with it as well, as far as the American sightings were concerned. those American sightings overlapped heavily with what people were seeing in Mexico too, which makes sense. That's the same region. And this is where the story of the Chupacabra gets really interesting to me because to make this about myself,
⁓ really quick. I have spent the last several years of my life genuinely kind of confused about what exactly the Chupacabra was and wondering if I was living in my own little Mandela effect situation because I always remembered it being this weird lizard man type thing. That was my experience with the Chupacabra. But apparently somewhere in like the early
mid-2000s, that description changed. So this is when the sightings in the US and Mexico started becoming more prevalent. And they were still happening in the Caribbean and South America and really all over the world, but it's more around those areas. But Central and North America were having kind of a different experience with what they considered to be
Gina (26:55)
Hey.
Kathryn (27:19)
the chupacabra and it looks very different. Here in America, most prominently Texas, Arizona and New Mexico, people who claim to see the chupacabra tend to describe it as a hairless dog-like creature. Is that what you know it as? That's okay. Yeah, that was not my experience with it at all. And then suddenly one day I noticed like there were chupacabra quote unquote sightings.
Gina (27:33)
Okay, that's what I pictured. Yeah.
Okay.
Kathryn (27:49)
And I was like, that's not the Chupacabra. Like, what are you talking about? But I didn't realize there was like a regional thing. I always thought it was this weird lizard guy. So I thought I just made up the lizard thing, like, completely. So let's just real quick go over the official descriptions that have been pieced together from each claim in each region for these two creatures that are the same creature, actually, allegedly. So.
Gina (27:51)
You
You
Kathryn (28:18)
Recap of the early Puerto Rican slash Caribbean descriptions said it was a creature that stood on its hind legs three to four to sometimes up to five feet tall, reptilian, alien-like, grayish green skin, spines on its back, huge glowing red eyes, long claws and fangs, and
sometimes wings or like webbing on its hands or feet. I remember it having wings. I remember it being like a lizard with wings. That was my, but even in Puerto Rico, it didn't always have wings. The behavioral traits of that one are like nocturnal attacks on livestock. And it was said to drink blood, leaving kind of unusual puncture wounds and drained animals. And it was described as having this weird eerie hop.
run type thing, kind of like your last episode. I was kind of wondering if that could have been the same creature. It's kind of like a lizard kangaroo, honestly. Yeah. But then Mexico, it's described as a hairless dog-like or usually coyote-like creature. And it's usually very emaciated and like kind of starved looking. And it also has a
Gina (29:11)
That's what I was thinking. My gosh. Yeah.
Kathryn (29:35)
visible skin underneath like tufts of the occasional hair, sometimes bluish gray or like leathery skin, pronounced snout and sharp teeth. And it usually moves on all fours rather than upright, but it is possible for it to move on its hind legs. Behavioral traits are kind of similar. It is also associated with livestock deaths, but it's more
traditional as far as hunting versus there's not really a vampire aspect to it. It's just like a, as a coyote would kill a sheep, you know what I mean? Like it just attacks the animals. I do think there is still an association of blood draining, but it's a lot more sporadic. It's not like that is a telltale sign. You get that every single time. ⁓ And then in the Southwest United States, it's the same thing. That's the Mexican.
Gina (30:11)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (30:29)
American one are pretty much the same. Beyond that, like I said, there are other regions around the world with people who claim they have seen the Chupacabra. There was a Russian sighting, I think it was like mid to to late 2000s. I think it was around 2006 ish. I don't remember. There was also a sighting in Maine, which is still the United States, but like very different part of the United States. Yeah, super far away. But
Gina (30:53)
Yeah!
Kathryn (30:55)
basically the point is the Chupacabra can just show up anywhere, essentially, it is notable that the description has been different in nearly every single region. So call me crazy. It is possible that these are different creatures.
Gina (30:58)
Ahem.
Yeah, I was kind of wondering why they're all called the Cheapacop.
Kathryn (31:11)
Yeah.
Yes, so in the decades since it was first named back in Puerto Rico in 95, it kind of seems like chupacabra, quote unquote chupacabra has become a kind of a catchall term to simply describe a creature you don't understand or recognize. It's like see a weird thing in the woods or on a farm or in your backyard and you don't know what it is. El chupacabra. Like that's it, you know.
Gina (31:43)
Mm-hmm, safe
bet.
Kathryn (31:45)
⁓
Right. So I am trying not to like fall down all my different rabbit holes. I am going to kind of leave the North American slash like central and North American version out of the discussion for a second. We will get back to it again toward the end. But I want to talk about the original sightings in Puerto Rico to kind of discuss what people think.
it was and kind of what the original creature could have been. Because I think all of these other ones, I'm not saying they're not real creatures, but like if they are, it just is a whole different thing. So we're gonna go back to the Puerto Rican one real quick. So beyond just the eyewitness sighting, where did this legend actually come from and like, why did it grow the way that it did? There is a man named Lauren Coleman.
who is the director of the International Cryptozoology Museum in Portland. Why do you know him? Have you talked about him?
Gina (32:45)
Yeah,
we talked about him in Enfield Horror. He was the guy that... Yeah. Yeah, same guy.
Kathryn (32:49)
Okay, I was gonna ask if that was the same guy because I remember,
I thought you were saying Lorne, like Lorne Michael of SNL. So when I saw Lorne, I was like, wait, is this the same guy that you were talking about or is that like a coincidence? Okay, I meant to ask you this before this episode. I totally forgot. Anyway, so yes, they talked to him and he says that it is possible that the sightings in Puerto Rico
Gina (33:07)
That's funny.
Kathryn (33:17)
could have been attributed to kind of a mini mass hysteria caused by Madelyne's initial, can I call it like she kind of planted the seed with her description. then everyone, anytime they saw something weird, it was like, that was the image that they saw in their head, like that sketch.
It was just the first thing that people saw and without looking into it further, it was just like, oh my God, El Chupacabra you know? there is some weight to this theory because in July of 1995, right after the initial panic with the livestock and right before her description, an alien movie called Species premiered. Have you ever seen that movie? It has Ben Kingsley in it.
Gina (34:02)
No.
⁓ okay. Have you seen it?
Kathryn (34:06)
I know,
okay. ⁓ I have seen clips of this movie. I'm familiar with this movie outside of this episode, but I haven't sat and watched the movie. But I'm going to now, because I Ben Kingsley. Anyway, I feel like I made that weird. Why am I obsessed with Ben Kingsley all of sudden?
Gina (34:15)
Okay.
Kathryn (34:26)
on 82 year old Ben Kingsley? Of course I do, we all should. Why would you not? Anyway, so this alien movie... What?
Man, I keep like misreading all of these notes.
Gina (34:43)
would you
shock yourself with what comes out of your mouth and you say something and you're like, what?
Kathryn (34:50)
my God, you know, I accidentally did that to a customer a couple weeks ago. I ever tell you that? I don't remember what they were looking for, but I'm not going to remember this story. Like as I have, it's been a weird few weeks for me, but I, they were asking for something and it reminded me of a book with a title very similar to another book. So I accidentally said the wrong book and immediately go, what?
This woman looks at me like what I didn't say anything. Yeah, it was weird. I made it weird anyway, I Haven't seen her again. So hopefully she's just working her way through that book. I so eloquently recommended to her She'll be back Anyway The alien in this movie is gray grayish green has scaly skin spines all the way it's down
Gina (35:22)
I bet she loved you though.
She'll be back. She'll be back.
Kathryn (35:44)
it's back and kind of reddish eyes, not super red, but she's got like highlighted, there are like red bits to her. ⁓ It's not exactly the same as the sketch, but the takeaway is she looks a whole lot like the Chupacabra basically. So it is possible that Madeleine, you know, saw something in her backyard that was totally normal and imagery from this film, whether she saw it or not, she would have seen like trailers and marketing for it.
because it was showing in theaters in Puerto Rico. It's possible that that imagery was somewhere in her brain and she like made that connection. I will say personally comparing the sketch to the movie there are similarities but I feel like the main similarity that is notable to that movie is just the spikes on its back. Otherwise they both just look like reptilian aliens which
Like, yeah, it's possible this movie could have been in her psyche when she saw this thing, but I also could see that they just did a really good job creating an alien for this movie. And she also did see something that looked like this. You know what I mean? So it's like, I'm not gonna call it a stretch because there definitely seems to be a connection, but like.
Gina (36:50)
Yeah.
Kathryn (36:55)
I don't necessarily buy it that that was the definitive reason. It's possible, but I'm not like, yes, case closed. Yeah, it is notable that she is not the only one who claimed to see She was at first, of course, but I mean, like I said, there were over 200 sightings of this thing throughout Puerto Rico alone. That could be a little mess this area. It could just be people seeing something.
I do want to say, spoiler, I do believe in the Chupacabra, ⁓ but there is another logical explanation that I want to go over first, because I think this is a fun one. This is the one I warned Gina ahead of time. I came up with this theory last night, so I'm a little wired right now. I don't know how rambly I'm going to get. So like I said earlier, Puerto Rico has no natural predators.
Gina (37:31)
Okay.
Kathryn (37:50)
but they do have an invasive species that is a predator. in the 1960s, there was a lizard being sold in pet stores in Puerto Rico called the spectacled caiman. What pet owners didn't know when they were buying these lizards was the fact that the spectacled caiman wasn't just a reptile, it was a type of crocodile.
Gina (38:15)
Yeah, aren't they the ones with the really scary buggy
eyes?
Kathryn (38:19)
Yes, yeah, they're like a species of crocodile that are not fit for pets and like being kept in a tank in So people didn't know this. They were buying these cute little lizard things, bringing them home, and these things would outgrow their tanks. So people had to set them free. There was nowhere to put them. So now,
Gina (38:21)
They're really dangerous, yeah.
No.
my God.
Kathryn (38:47)
The main predator in Puerto Rico is the spectacled caiman, which was introduced to the island in the 70s when people were setting all of these pets free because they couldn't take care of them. And like, if you're not a native predator to an area, you have to find prey. So these animals were likely going after livestock.
So it's very possible that that was the predator that was going after these animals, but people who like, you know, weren't buying these lizards or were unaware of what was happening with these, I'm saying quote unquote, lizards, they wouldn't make that connection because they're not used to seeing these crocodiles here because they're not native to the island.
But the Chupacabra stuff was happening in the 90s and the Spectacled came in situation was happening in the 70s. So what's with the time gap? Well, in 1975, there was another series of livestock killings out of the blue in the small town of Mocha and people couldn't explain what was happening. They had no idea. They had never seen animal attacks like this before.
And was a very similar situation to what was being described when the Chupacabras showed up in 1995, 20 years later. Livestock was just mysteriously dead with small circular incisions appearing to be drained of blood. The series of events in 75 was attributed to
El Vampiro de Mocha, which translates to the vampire of Mocha. And okay, actually, this is a fun fact. Can you guess what people initially attributed these deaths to? It wasn't the Chupacabra, but it's something we've talked a lot about on this podcast. Close, satanic cults. Yes, and ritual sacrifice. So that was what the explanation.
Gina (40:44)
Ghosts.
There we go. Okay, close second.
Kathryn (40:56)
for that in 1975, which makes sense. But based on the timing, I do think it's possible that these crocodiles had been set loose in the 70s. Again, didn't have any natural prey, so they started going after the livestock. I can't really explain the draining in blood, but I do know when animals are injured, they don't just like drop and die. They typically tend to move a little bit. So it's possible that they were like, sorry.
Gina (40:59)
Yeah.
Kathryn (41:26)
but like bleeding for a while and like on the move. So that could be why people weren't finding them in a pool of blood. I don't know how much weight that carries. don't, I'm not like privy to livestock deaths, but I think that's possible. You know, it can like appear that they were drained. Yeah. Then of course the circular incisions like could just be the alligator or sorry, the crocodile teeth. That makes like perfect sense.
Gina (41:28)
Mm-hmm.
it. Yeah.
Kathryn (41:55)
Go ahead.
Gina (41:54)
Spectacled Caimans, if you've never
seen one before, they do look kind of alien-ish. Like I get how trying to verbally describe it to someone would result in a picture like that.
Kathryn (42:00)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and it's like, not everything matches one to one, but like if you see it in the dark or you're not used to seeing it and you don't know, you haven't seen anything like that before, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it is certainly possible, know, like weirder connections have been made, you know.
Gina (42:19)
Yeah.
Interesting.
Kathryn (42:30)
So it is possible that that describes the Puerto Rican sightings. As for the Central and North American sightings, I'm have a little bit of an attitude about this one. Honestly, every single sighting and every single quote video of a sighting of a chupacabra in that region is like very clearly and obviously.
attributed to a mangy coyote. part of why I want to brush past this a little bit is because it honestly makes me so mad and a little bit sad because people recording these sick animals and saying it's a monster when like...
Gina (42:55)
Mmm.
Kathryn (43:11)
you should just be calling like an animal rescue so that they can get treated. Mange can be treated. if you see what you think is a chupacabra in the Southwestern United States, call animal control because it's really just a sick canine. So and also don't send us those videos if you think that you see a chupacabra because I don't want to see them. It makes me very upset. So this is all to say I don't believe in the North American chupacabra.
Gina (43:13)
Yeah.
Kathryn (43:36)
do believe in the Puerto Rican chupacabra. That's a very important distinction. Besides that little soapbox I just had to hop on real quick, I do want to bring up a particularly compelling image that was taken from security camera footage from a Texas zoo in 2022. Did you ever hear about this? It's got pretty big. Reputable news sites were covering this. Let me send you the link real quick.
Gina (43:39)
Okay.
No.
My gosh, I feel like I'm getting flashbacks to the Dear David episodes where I was waiting for something I knew would be scary.
Kathryn (44:03)
⁓
Wait, that's so funny. I was literally just about to mention Dear David. Like in my next sentence, I literally, the next sentence in my notes says, I believe it was taken with one of those cameras that I described in the Dear David episode. And you think that you're not psychic.
Gina (44:13)
Really?
Kathryn (44:31)
You so are. Okay.
Gina (44:34)
Let's have a look.
Kathryn (44:35)
So, yeah, so I think it was taken with one of those cameras that like every so often it snaps a picture or it was like motion-censored.
Gina (44:43)
no, I do recognize this, I've seen this before. Yeah, I've forgotten about this.
Kathryn (44:45)
Do you remember this? I feel like
this is something, cause we were friends at this time and this is definitely something I would have like yammered on about. ⁓ So you may have just seen this from me.
Gina (44:53)
Yeah.
Kathryn (44:57)
So, sorry for those not watching the video and who have not seen it, ⁓ there is this, it's like a night vision photo taken pointing outside a fence at a Texas zoo. And it captures what appears to be a like wolf or coyote or dog like shape walking on its hind legs outside of the fence. So it looks like it's like kind of scouting the zoo.
The running theory was that it was like looking for a meal, essentially. I don't really have a concrete explanation with this one. I will say I do think it, I don't think it's a chupacabra. If it is something weird, I would think it was like a dog man or werewolf or skinwalker or something like that. Very werewolf-y. It very much looks like a werewolf outline. But I will say one thing I do wanna say.
Gina (45:40)
Mm-hmm. It's very werewolf-y, ⁓
Kathryn (45:51)
I can't see it anymore, but when I first saw this photo, I remember seeing something totally different. was one of those, you know that like optical illusion where there's two images and once you see one, you can't see the other. So I, yeah. So I like can't see what I originally saw at first now that I see the wolf shape. But when I first saw this, I saw what looked like a big cat.
Gina (46:03)
⁓ like a, yeah, like a rabbit and a duck or whatever.
Kathryn (46:20)
like leaping and facing toward the camera. So like, do you see it? Can you find it?
Gina (46:26)
I could kind of, I
can see the head because what I was seeing as something that looks like a snout, if we're going with the werewolfy one, could also be like the whiskers, if it's a cat facing the camera. I see that, yeah.
Kathryn (46:31)
Yeah.
Yeah, or like an ear like
pointing down. Yes. So that's what I saw at first. And I was like, why are what are you talking about? That's not a, you know, creature. That's just like a mountain lion or bobcat or something. But then once I saw the wolf shape, I like can't find the cat anymore. ⁓ But if I can find what I saw again, I'll try to do like an outline so people can see it,
Gina (46:56)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (47:02)
Obviously this is a very compelling image. Like I said, it was making the rounds like crazy. Like everyone, not everyone in the world, but like everyone in like the community that's interested in this was talking about it. It could just be someone in costume.
could just be like what I said, like different type of animal and our eyes are seeing what we want to see. Or it could be a creature, a weird dog creature. Of all the evidence.
I do think this is the most compelling. All of the other evidence you'll find is, like I said, just very clearly an image of a sick coyote. This is the only one that's very like, the way it's moving is compelling.
Gina (47:41)
like the, it's how the arms and legs are placed for me. Because if this was a dog or a coyote or something standing on its hind legs, its arms would be like in the front, yeah, like that. But it looks like it has, you know, like the ball and socket joint of a shoulder that humans do and it's hanging down with an elbow like humans have.
Kathryn (47:47)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
It'd be like, yes.
This is like...
Yeah, very much so.
Yeah, I was wondering, couldn't, I can't remember if we ever talked about this, but I was wondering if you would recognize this image because I always, I thought it was really, yeah.
Gina (48:12)
I definitely recognize... This was probably one.
We probably talked about it over a Long Island ice tea, and so I don't remember. Yeah.
Kathryn (48:17)
I'm sure we did. Yeah, oh, I'm sure I would have like, yeah,
because we had known each other for a few years at that point. So I would have been like, all right, even if she thinks I'm crazy, it's fine. Like I definitely would have brought this up for sure. So yeah, I mean, we're kind of coming to the end. do like, is the Chupacabra real? Honestly, don't know. Like I said, definitely believe in the Chupacabra one. What? The Puerto Rican one. What is
Gina (48:27)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mmm!
Kathryn (48:43)
Happening to me today. Is the chupacabra real? I don't know, but I definitely believe in the chupacabra
Gina (48:48)
You
Kathryn (48:52)
Well, talk about Freudian slip. ⁓ Yeah, I do. I just like that story better. I think it's, you know, even if it is that little crocodile thing, I think just the fact that we have a whole alien.
Gina (48:54)
Love it.
Kathryn (49:07)
description of it. I just feel like that just holds a lot more weight than the North American one. Like the North American one, I'm not saying that, well, some of these sightings definitely are not a weird creature, but things like that, like the image, I'm like that, I would attribute that to like a werewolf or something before I called it a chupacabra personally. I might get some hate for this, but I don't care. I stand by it 100%.
Gina (49:26)
Yeah.
Yeah.
The North American one almost feels like lots of different cryptids smushed into one, or like lots of different paranormal. Yeah, because it's kind of like a little bit werewolf, kind of a little bit vampire, kind of little bit other stuff, like kind of a little bit dog man, you know, it's...
Kathryn (49:38)
Mm-hmm. That's how I feel too. Yeah
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
I do want to talk about one of my other conspiracy theories real quick, specific to the Puerto Rican one, ⁓ because I was looking at a map of the sightings, which we will share in the show notes and
Every single one of the sightings took place very close to a river. So could very much be a crocodile that's, you know, very on brand.
I'm also wondering, as inspired by your mermaid episode, this is a lizard reptilian-type creature. So what if it is both land and sea monster? And that could also explain the gap in time, because we saw it in the 70s, then we saw it again in the 90s, then we saw it again in the 2000, 2010s. What if it just like...
Gina (50:26)
ha ha.
Yeah!
Kathryn (50:40)
hangs out in the sea for 20 years at a time and then floats into Puerto Rico via river, eats a bunch of animals, and then like, fucks off back into the sea.
Gina (50:50)
Yeah,
like an amphibious little cicada.
Kathryn (50:54)
Yeah. Yes! Right?
Gina (50:55)
I dig that, I'm into that. I think that there's not enough
amphibious cryptids.
Kathryn (51:01)
No, not at all. We were gonna talk about that frog guy, but... Yeah, yes. So we're talking about the Chupacabra and Sid because what if it's like a similar vibe? What if it's like, you know, there's like sea crocodiles?
Gina (51:05)
Well...
Kathryn (51:19)
Like, I don't know. Weirder things have happened. Anyway, so that's my new running theory of the Chupacabra is that it is a sea and land dwelling lizard thing.
Gina (51:21)
Yeah? I agree.
I buy that. I buy that more than ⁓ any other theory, I think. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's a good one. I like that a lot.
Kathryn (51:36)
Me too. Thank you.
Anyway, so we figured out the Chupacabra situation. Thank you for joining us. And do you have something spooky for me? Sorry. I'm like, I don't want to leave any room for discussion on this, so we gotta just move past it. We figured it out. We know who Chupacabra is and where he's going and like, let's move on. Yeah, no feedback expected or welcome whatsoever. No discussions will be had on the aquatic.
Gina (51:42)
Hehehehehe
Well...
Case closed, comments are turned off. We are moving on.
Kathryn (52:08)
Chupacabra.
Gina (52:09)
because we already solved it, anyway.
Kathryn (52:12)
Hahaha!
Gina (52:13)
I do have something spooky for you if you consider the D.A.R.E. in school to be scary.
Kathryn (52:20)
As I do and as we all should.
Gina (52:23)
So a few episodes ago when we were talking about Bloody Mary, we briefly talked about this clip that went viral online where somebody was claiming that the D.A.R.E. program was a MLM or a pyramid scheme. And also, I don't know the difference between those two things, which is something I discovered.
Kathryn (52:43)
Okay, yeah, I feel like so that's I mean that's kind of part of the discussion is very few people do they are Technically different basically Don't come for me, but pyramid schemes are like technically illegal Multi-level marketing schemes are basically the loophole that people can do to basically achieve the same thing but not call it a pyramid scheme ⁓ I don't remember the very specific
Gina (52:47)
Yeah.
Kathryn (53:13)
like logistics of why they're different, but it's like, I believe, iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com, if you want to walk us through this in like a respectful, non-condescending way, please feel free. But I believe that a pyramid scheme's a little bit more overtly predatory than a multi-level marketing scheme, you are choosing to be part of it.
Gina (53:25)
Mm-hmm.
Cause those are always like girl
boss, you know, that's what I think about it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
Kathryn (53:40)
own your own company. Yeah. So
it's like you are choosing to be part of this and you like have a level of autonomy. But like there is still someone at the top.
who's getting more benefit from this than you are, essentially, which like at the end of the day, it's like, that's not super different from any company, but there are like differences.
Gina (53:53)
Yeah.
Yeah, just...
Kathryn (54:01)
At its core, there's not much of a difference.
Shout out to Philippa, our listener, for sending us an episode on this topic.
Gina (54:08)
Yes.
of the pod, Philippa, sent us an email ⁓ about the Is Dare an MLM thing, and she referred us to a podcast called Life After MLM, who, as the name might suggest, explores things like MLMs and pyramid schemes and Ponzi schemes and all of that not good stuff. And there was a whole episode about Dare, and so Kathryn and I both listened to it, and I thought it was fascinating. I was shocked to discover that
Kathryn (54:18)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Gina (54:38)
It doesn't sound like it actually was an
Kathryn (54:41)
I will just say this. The way it was described is it's not, you don't get benefits from having other officers join, but they described it as something that is a way for off-duty cops to make money, which I don't love for reasons that I will keep to myself.
Gina (55:04)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (55:10)
That's all
I have to say also just fucked there because I hated my dare officer they went into this whole thing about how there were like, you know There was an officer that still kept in touch with some of his students and it really like gutted him when he had to pull over former students and blah blah blah blah and like love that for him, but like hated my dare officer so much so it's one of those things where I'm over here kind like whether or not it was an MLM I Still hated my officer and like wish
Gina (55:15)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (55:38)
that I had disappointed her. I wish she could have seen me as a sophomore in high school because boy did she fail.
Gina (55:47)
Let's go do drugs outside of her house.
Kathryn (55:51)
wish I could remember, I would absolutely never share her name publicly,
I wouldn't do that, but I wish that I personally knew her name so that I could just see how she was doing now because I didn't like her.
Gina (56:00)
Yeah, I
don't remember my dare officer at all. And that's another thing that surprised me when ⁓ they were talking about it on Life After MLM is just how regional this thing was. Like there was a part where they were talking about how a lot of dare officers, like coach football teams and cheer squads and they get involved. I ⁓ don't remember my dare officer's name, but I remember that he did not want to be there. And it was not.
Kathryn (56:04)
Yeah.
Yeah, that was surprising.
Gina (56:27)
like a, there was no community aspect of it. For me, when I was a little kid, that's how I remember it. And the other part that I, it was one of those things where as soon as I heard it, I was like, well, yeah, of course that's what it was. But I had just, it had never occurred to me, is that one of the, alongside educating kids about the dangers of drugs or whatever, a secondary goal was to give kids positive experiences with cops early on so that they felt comfortable going to the cops for things.
And I felt betrayed by that.
Kathryn (56:59)
I did not have that experience.
Gina (57:02)
there.
Kathryn (57:03)
I also didn't love that they, and I wanna be clear, I'm not, this isn't, I'm not talking bad about the podcast at all, but like, ⁓ cause I thought they did a very good job of being objective on the topic. ⁓ It's very much you can make your own conclusion about how like we just have our own thoughts on D.A.R.E. Like other people I'm sure will come out of it like, wow, yeah, it's not as bad as everyone says it is. I came out of it like, wow, what a trash program. ⁓ But they said something like,
Gina (57:14)
Agreed.
You
Kathryn (57:32)
Basically, I'm paraphrasing, everyone should just go listen to this episode, but they said something to the effect of how inaccurate the stuff they were teaching was. And I want to be very clear, this isn't necessarily Dahr's fault, the people making that curriculum, because a lot of the research that we had in the 90s and the stuff that was being shared and all the stuff that came out of the war on drugs, it was all very...
not correct information. But like, there was that whole bit about how one of their biggest platforms was the fact that marijuana is as dangerous as heroin, which like we all were like, everyone thought that because that's what we were being told. But I'm like, hey, I just I remember as a fifth grader learning that.
Gina (58:14)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kathryn (58:28)
and instinctively knowing that that could not possibly be true. like, maybe I am remembering this with my adult brain and like coloring my whatever, but I just remember being like, that just, that can't be true. Like.
Gina (58:45)
See, I 100 %
believed it when I was in D.A.R.E.
Kathryn (58:48)
I just, see, I did not. the thing that I remember being most afraid of is like, I got to high school.
and I got to a party and all of a sudden people were gonna be throwing heroin at my face or something. That was what I believed. But that I was afraid of. Weed, I was like, eh, that's fine. That's probably whatever. But I don't know why I thought that. I don't know if it was like, I probably had like a, well it was.
Gina (58:58)
Mm-hmm.
You had critical thinking skills. You were ahead of your time.
Kathryn (59:17)
That cannot be it. It had to have been like, I had a friend who's like older sister smoked weed and I know she's still alive or like something like that. But there was something that made me like, hesitant to believe that. And all of this is to say, again, like this isn't even an anti-Dare thing. This is just like, that's what we were made to believe at the time. And like, Dare didn't help the spreading of accurate information.
Gina (59:19)
Hmm
Okay.
No, because there was something about there was no statistical evidence that it made any impact on actual drug, which that was not surprising.
Kathryn (59:47)
You know?
Mm-mm.
No.
Yeah. That just changed. Did you know that? Marijuana has been in the same class of drug ⁓ as heroin and other, you know, opioids and all of that until last year it changed.
Gina (59:59)
Yeah. No.
lol
never have fun in college. Like, of course they didn't. Of course they didn't. What am I saying? My god.
Kathryn (1:00:23)
No! They were never invited to the parties. That's why we have these rules.
This is what happens when dweebs are in charge.
Gina (1:00:31)
That
reminds me of, did you ever see Pineapple Express?
Kathryn (1:00:34)
Of course I've seen Pineapple Express. Are you kidding me? That was one of my favorite movies of all
Gina (1:00:39)
thinking about the opening scene with Bill Hader when it's like, you know, whenever it was, and they're like testing the different drugs, yeah, to see like how they should class them.
Kathryn (1:00:42)
Yes.
in like the 50s or whatever, 40s or 50s, yeah.
Gina (1:00:52)
But anyway, yeah.
Kathryn (1:00:52)
Well, and that's why
it's so ridiculous because like that's a comedy movie, but that's like kind of how it happened. Like they just didn't have a lot of information on it. So they were like dangerous. Yeah, anyway, this is a big digression. Regardless, that was a great episode. Yes.
Gina (1:01:09)
Thank you so much, ⁓ Philippa, for
sending us the link to that podcast. And also thank you to Life After MLM for a great episode. I really enjoyed it.
Kathryn (1:01:19)
Yeah, this is not sponsored. They have no idea who we are. We just liked that episode.
Gina (1:01:21)
No. Yeah. But yeah, we'll
put a link in the show notes if you want to give it a listen as well. It comes recommended.
Kathryn (1:01:30)
Yes, very much so.
Gina (1:01:32)
yeah, if you have a story of your own or a podcast recommendation or even a book recommendation or any kind of recommendation for anything, could be a recommendation about a flavor of Jell-O for all we care. Feel free, yeah, love Jell-O. Feel free to send it to iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com
Kathryn (1:01:43)
you
I cut yum.
Gina (1:01:51)
and you will have our eternal love and gratitude, which you'll have anyway, but like a little bit more of it if you sent us something cool. Anyway, that's it.
Kathryn (1:02:02)
We love you, but we'll love you more if you talk to us.
Gina (1:02:05)
⁓ I didn't like that, that felt abusive. I'm
sorry everyone.
feel like.
Kathryn (1:02:11)
We're doing great. You know we love you.
Gina (1:02:13)
Anyway, I promise to do better, probably, or maybe I'll do worse. Tune in next
time to find out. Until next time, keep it cool.
Kathryn (1:02:22)
and keep it creepy.
