Ep. 52: Baba Yaga
Gina (00:10)
Hello and welcome to I Scream You Scream, your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories, mysteries, and paranormal perplexities. I'm Gina.
Kathryn (00:22)
I'm Catherine and this is Cinnamon.
Gina (00:25)
She wants
to join in today. ⁓ The topic for October is witches and while we talk about witches we are enjoying some ice cream cake in celebration of our very first pod birthday. So once again happy birthday to us if we have not said it enough. Sorry, not sorry. In case you missed it the I Scream You Scream Patreon is now live and we already have a few...
goodies on there. have a very spooky story about the so-called Village of Witches and we may or may not have created extended playlists for our funerals. So you can check out all of that and more when you join Patreon for less than the cost of a little scoop of ice cream. It's just three dollars a month. I thought that was an apt comparison. Huge shout out to Catherine's parents, our very first Patreon supporters.
Kathryn (01:10)
It is.
Gina (01:18)
So happy you're here.
so you too can join the fun along with Ken and Jay Beibs when you subscribe to Patreon. I don't know where I'm going with that. Anyway, grab a spoon and let's dig in.
Kathryn (01:33)
first and foremost, it's Halloween week.
Gina (01:36)
my god, it is, isn't it? I forgot about that too.
Kathryn (01:38)
I forgot. Yes.
We're recording a little early. Yes, so first and foremost, happy Halloween to everyone. It's spooky season all year round, so don't worry. It's not over. It won't be over ever. So just stick around with us and there'll be Halloween all year round. ⁓ With that being said, what are your questions,
Gina (01:53)
Well, I know, because I know you, that you had a very exciting weekend and you went to a couple of cool places and I really, I wanna hear about it, because we haven't talked about it much at all.
Kathryn (02:04)
I did.
One of the ways we celebrated spooky season is we went to a place I've been dreaming of going for a very long time. And by that I mean like roughly a year-ish. And that is the International Clown Hall of Fame in Baraboo, Wisconsin. And yes.
Gina (02:28)
So terrifying.
Kathryn (02:31)
Ladies and gentlemen, et cetera. It was every bit as riveting as it sounds like it was and every bit as creepy, even though they don't mean to be. It just is by default in the most wonderful way. It was fantastic to make our journey worthwhile. We also went to the Root Beer Museum about 15 minutes away. That was for Phil. And we got an extensive history tour on Root Beer here in America.
And I gotta say, Phil and I gave this poor man a little bit of a run for his money. I don't think he was used to so many questions and so much ⁓ prior knowledge to root beer and its making and history and where it's going next, ⁓ as my husband has as someone who is a proud member of the root beer subreddit and an active member. ⁓
Yeah, it was fun. I drank more root beer than I've ever drank in my life. Worth noting, I don't like root beer. But it was fun. There were some that were OK. They were sippable for me. we had a root beer and clown day. And then obviously, the clown museum. You know what it is? It's the Hall of Fame slash Research Center. So one of our questions for him was,
Hey man, what the hell are you guys researching? And it actually was really interesting. the research they do is just really historical research and also like they basically collect all of this information and they're the place to go if someone is looking for like accurate historical information on clowns. So for example, they've worked with the team from Modern Family.
Gina (03:57)
Yeah.
Kathryn (04:23)
on an episode where someone was dressing up as a clown because they wanted to know, yeah, because they wanted to know like, okay, in this situation, what would be, like, what would the shoes look like? What would the outfit look like? I actually learned so much about clowns. There's honestly so much that goes into it more than just like goofy people piling into cars.
Gina (04:26)
yeah, there are many.
Okay.
Kathryn (04:42)
was very interesting. There was like a lot of really fun tidbits like that.
He made running away and joining the circus sound very fun. And I'm like, I straight up said, man, I wish that I could, it's too late for me. He was like, it's never too late to join the circus. I was like, really, Greg, you mean it?
Gina (04:55)
I would if I could, I don't
know what I would do in a circus.
Kathryn (05:03)
So that's the problem and I didn't go into all this with him but I'm gonna go into it with you because when I was little I literally used to like stretch and bend and balance on things trying to test out whether or not I would make it in the circus. The consensus was I would not. I just don't have any, I couldn't be a clown because I don't do like physical comedy very well. I don't have great balance so I really wanted to be a tightrope.
Gina (05:07)
Ha ha
Kathryn (05:29)
Walker. That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be the tight work like anyone one that was in like the sparkly outfit. But she was the one that I mostly wanted to be. But I just I don't know. I follow that. I've had a lot of inner ear infections. My balance is not so good. So that was just not in the cards for me.
Gina (05:43)
Ha ha ha!
I held on to a smidgen of a hope all through childhood that I could join the circus. And then in high school, they let you, when you were like a junior and a senior, they let you take elective PE classes. So they had like all different types of PE classes you could take. And I took circus stunts for a semester and I was, ⁓ I was so bad at it. Like you learned how to juggle and you learned like they would put like a plank of wood on a ball and you would have to learn how to balance on the plank and.
Kathryn (05:55)
No. You, I feel like you told me this, I remember being jealous of this.
Gina (06:13)
It was fine, was just more like core work than I expected. I wanted the fun and frivolity.
Kathryn (06:19)
Well, you know what, Gina? Based on what I learned at the International Clown Hall of Fame is they teach you all that stuff at clown school. So you could have you could just apply to clown school. The problem is the acceptance rate is very low because there's only 50 there's only 50 spots.
Gina (06:25)
I'll go to clown school.
What?
What is there just like one clown school?
Kathryn (06:39)
Honestly, I think so. I could be wrong, but I think so. It's like the Barnum and Bailey Ringling clown school. Yeah.
Gina (06:40)
Wow, that's impressive. Okay. Okay, so it's cutthroat. I'm really intrigued by...
Kathryn (06:48)
At least that's the one that's like the one people want to go to. That's the one that makes good clowns. It's the Yale of clown school. Except the acceptance rate at Yale and Harvard is higher than it is at the Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey Clown School. Another thing I learned.
Gina (06:51)
Okay, yeah. Okay.
⁓ Now
I'll go to the community college version. Whatever the state school version of clown colleges, I'll go.
Kathryn (07:06)
Now that's where the clowns that make people afraid of clowns go to school.
Yeah, it's wild. Yeah. It's very cool. Fully endorsed, 100%. Absolutely go there.
Gina (07:17)
So cool. Fuck yeah. So you endorse.
Nice.
Kathryn (07:27)
If you're ever in the area, it's in Baraboo, Wisconsin, the birthplace of the American circus. Oh, actually, also, yes, afterwards, we went to the Al Ringling Brewing Company. We went to the bar, which is like super haunted. I forgot like why I brought this up for spooky season. That's Yeah, so we went to this
Gina (07:34)
That's what I always say.
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (07:55)
brewery, the brewery. This place is known for being haunted by like the Ringling family. And I will say it feels haunted. Like I stepped in and like, anytime I'm anywhere that people say is haunted, my ears start ringing and popping. Like, pretty consistently, the moment we stepped in, my ears were like bugging me.
Like the moment we stepped in, even Phil was kind of like, this place has a vibe. It does have a vibe. can, like, there's definitely a lot of energy there. That would be a cool place, because it's attached to the mansion, which is haunted. And it's like an Airbnb and you can do, they do like investigations and haunted tours and stuff.
Gina (08:22)
Hmm
Haaaa
Hell yeah. Nice. Great. Well, not sponsored, but wannabe. We can add another one to the list. If we were... Yes. We pay them for the right to say we're sponsored by them. I'll do it. I'll give them $10.
Kathryn (08:40)
Yeah.
Yeah! ⁓ my god, wait, how cool would that be if we were sponsored by them? But in the way that we pay them for donations? Wait, that's bad business. I love it. What if we did that?
Wait, we could... What is that called? We could be a non-profit if we did that. We could register as a non-profit.
Gina (09:11)
Have you seen those videos online of the chick who like she she's making fun of nonprofit bosses?
Kathryn (09:20)
I've not seen that, but I would like to. That's funny.
Gina (09:25)
It's so funny. Yeah,
I can't remember her username. I'll pop it in the show notes or the over like in the YouTube, whatever. But she's really fucking funny. Yeah.
Kathryn (09:32)
That's great.
Well, that's all I have to say about the clown museum.
So at the time this is published, we will be one week away from you being here. One and a half. No. We will literally be four days away from you being here at the time this is published. Yeah. Yeah.
Gina (09:44)
Yay! Well, hi, feature us. I hope you're excited.
I'm so excited, it feels so close.
I'm nervous. I'm getting the weird thing when we haven't seen each other for a while and I get nervous like I'm meeting you for the first time.
Kathryn (09:54)
Wild yeah
It's so funny you say that. I was going through my, I used that TimeHop app and something popped whenever that was when you guys were here for my birthday. it was like the day you were coming in.
I was like, feel like I need to clean, but I don't know why my house is clean and like you've seen me at my grossest. But like I feel it's because you guys were the it was the first time you were seeing the house. We had just moved in. Yeah.
Gina (10:18)
Yeah, you're right, yeah.
And we were staying with you too, which is like extra host pressure because you can't get away from us, yeah. Yeah, that was fun. I never wanna get away from you. I think Tom would stay in your house forever if only to see Spooky all the time. He misses Spooky so much.
Kathryn (10:26)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, and you can't get away from us. Or my filthy home.
⁓ absolutely.
Spooky will be excited to see you guys.
Gina (10:45)
So if you pick me up from the airport and I'm hammered, it's just because I'm nervous.
Kathryn (10:49)
Well, if I pick you up from the airport and I'm hammered, so sorry.
Gina (10:55)
And then we can finally use our funeral playlists.
Kathryn (11:00)
Finally! After all this time. Okay, let's move on to the next thing. ⁓ Do you have a rating for our birthday cake ice cream?
Gina (11:01)
Yes.
I do. It's not that favorable. Well, it's a two out of five. But I think I am the problem. I think it was me. ⁓ I didn't actually get ice cream cake for any of the episodes we did this month. I had variations of cake made with ice cream and cake with ice cream on top of it, which is not technically ice cream cake. So I give myself a two out of five.
Kathryn (11:15)
What would that be?
Yeah.
classic.
Gina (11:41)
Well actually I give myself a one out of five. The two is because I like cake and it was good.
Kathryn (11:45)
Fair. Well, you're definitely not the problem because if you're the problem, then I'm the problem and I'm never the problem because I also give it two out of five. ⁓ Fun fact about me, I don't actually like ice cream cake at all. I actively dislike it, ⁓ but I did it for the bit and it was nostalgic. Like I said, we always had it for, I think it was my dad's birthday. So like that was fun. I was like, ⁓
Gina (11:51)
Okay.
Kathryn (12:12)
that cookie crumble they put in the center, I remember that. So like that was cute and fun. But as an overall experience...we don't have to do it again. But like we can for birthdays. Fully on board with doing it again, but don't want to. You know?
Gina (12:28)
Fully on board at doing it again, but don't fucking... That was the most Libra answer ever. I really don't want to do it, but I will. ⁓
Kathryn (12:31)
Yeah. Yes.
Literally welcome to my life. That's like every, any given moment, that's what's happening for me. Yes. I'm definitely a yes girl, but in the way that I hate it. But I've had a lot of experiences, most of them not good, but like I have stories, you know?
Gina (12:48)
I hope I'm a less girl.
You've led a life.
Kathryn (12:55)
Yeah, I'm so tired.
Gina (13:03)
Yeah, well on the bright side.
Kathryn (13:08)
Ha ha ⁓
Gina (13:10)
We have a very interesting topic today. I'm dying to hear about it.
Intro to Baba Yaga
Kathryn (13:13)
We do. OK, speaking of doing things that overwhelm me, the topic today is Baba Yaga. And whew, this is a sweeping saga that is very similar to what we've discussed recently, the type of story I should not do because it's way too much. So of course I did it.
And no regrets. This is one I don't regret. I did learn some things I didn't previously know but for our listeners I'm gonna say right at the top if you have additional information on her or a different version of her story
Please send us information on it because this is one where it could be a 10-part series or we could boil it down and I chose to boil it down.
So I'm going to start the story the way many of her stories start.
and that is deep in the Slavic forest. There is a cottage, but it's not just any old cottage. The cottage is lofted on top of some giant chicken legs
and it moves around the forest in search of its next meal. A lost child, perhaps, who will be gobbled up by the terrifying witch of the woods, the infamous Baba Yaga. But perhaps the legend isn't exactly as straightforward as those telling it would have you believe. Yes, once again,
Again, this is a story where we've got a misunderstood woman on our hands. Yes, so weird. So part of the misunderstanding is over the centuries, people do wonder if she actually was based on a real woman. And there is no one woman that people believe she was based on or one woman that...
Gina (14:44)
Ugh, shocker.
Kathryn (15:05)
specifically existed. right off the bat, people are already questioning, OK, is this a fairy tale or is this something that actually happens? Is this someone we should actually fear?
Origins of Baba Yaga
So instead of like trying to uncover the truth, is she real, is she not real, which is kind of where I thought this episode was going to go, ⁓ I'm just going to focus on what is the version of her story that people typically tell. And it all started this early, or this current version of her all started when she was first mentioned in written literature, and that was in 1755.
She appeared in a Russian grammar book that was published by a man named Mikhail... God. Okay, so sorry. I looked it up and I'm like panicking. Lomonosov? Lomonosov, I think? I don't know. I do not speak Russian or anything remotely related. I'm so sorry. Thank you.
Gina (15:54)
Mm-hmm. ⁓
That sounds good.
Kathryn (16:08)
Others suggest that written record of her dates back as early as 1591 in a book called
Of the Roos Commonwealth, which was published in Russia but written by an English man named Giles Fletcher. ⁓ Super, super British. We love Giles. I obviously haven't read either of these books, ⁓ so I don't know which one she actually first appeared in, but my suspicion is...
that the current version that we know of her appeared in 1755 and the 1591 may have been like an early version, like a story about someone or something that eventually evolved into who we know as Baba Yaga today. I'm kind of thinking like in the Lilith episode, there is an early version of Lilith that was the Lilitu the people consider Lilith, but it wasn't technically Lilith yet.
Gina (17:02)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (17:06)
So
I'm kind of imagining the same thing. So there's a little debate on where Baba Yaga's story started.
I don't want to say it doesn't matter which one she appeared in part of the reason it might not be super important to her story is the fact that she existed in oral traditions.
even longer. So that's kind of a big reason there's so much ambiguity on who she was and what the story is and how she came to be. And that's because people were talking about her and telling specific stories about her outside of the confines of both of these publications for so long and while they were being published and even after they were being published. So, you know, right off the bat, there's so many different versions of
her that exists alongside of each other. And then they've all kind of grown together into this one version that we have. One of the most, I'm going to say important things that has been kind of lost to history is the etymology of her actual name. There's even debate on what her name means. Like that's how little we actually know about her. know that in Slavic languages,
So things like Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, etc. Baba can mean either grandmother or just a term of endearment for an elder woman. Yaga, however, has no clear or singular etymological meaning in any of the Slavic languages. So many people have tried to kind of triangulate what they think this might mean just based on context clues. And...
Some say it likely translates to something to the effect of witch or horror, evil, wicked, you know, things like that. Others say that it's possible the word denotes wisdom. So the meaning of her name falls somewhere between old witch and wise grandma. That's the spectrum. Yes. Yes, exactly.
Gina (18:52)
Okay.
Okay, sounds about right. Yep.
Kathryn (19:12)
They also say that her story is likely a remnant of pre-Christian pagan traditions and she likely represents one third of the triple goddess archetype, aka maiden mother crone. So, and that's something you can kind of see, you know, we see that in folklore all the time and, you know, her stories are folktales, so that's a pretty safe assumption, I would say.
Gina (19:20)
Nice.
What does Baba Yaga look like?
Kathryn (19:33)
physical descriptions of her very widely, but all of the descriptions that I've ever read embody kind of the classic wicked witch of the wood type archetype. So that's a starting point. That's something that, you know, when people say Baba Yaga, the evil witch of the wood is where people's brains tend to go first. What that looks like exactly is different depending on, you know, where you are and what
culture this story is being told But as I said, she's described as kind of an old crone. And one of the more interesting things that I found was she's described as kind of skeletal and emaciated with really bony legs and arms, which immediately that's not where my head goes when I think of which of what I think of like plump little grandma type. Yeah.
Gina (20:23)
Me too! Yes.
Yeah, like Hansel and Gretel, kind of.
Kathryn (20:25)
Yeah.
Did you ever read the book ⁓ Strega Nona with the spaghetti? OK. Let me send you a picture of it real quick because I feel like you'll recognize the book cover.
Gina (20:31)
No.
What is this? OK.
yeah yeah yeah yeah, I recognize this. Yes.
Kathryn (20:46)
Yeah, so she's like a little, she's not a witch really. Or I mean, maybe she is kind of, I don't know. But she's not an evil witch, this little old lady in the storybook. But that's why I always imagine as like the witch of the wood, like plump apron, kerchief, cauldron, you know? And right off the bat, Baba Yaga is kind of the opposite of that. Like you see her and it's immediately like, very angular and sharp, you know? ⁓
Gina (21:03)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (21:14)
And she also is often described as being very small and kind of hunched over. She often has very long, like razor sharp teeth. Sometimes it goes so far as to describe her as having literal razors for teeth, like iron blades in her mouth. Yeah. I know, right? Like, it's weird to think. Yeah, it's weird to think because she's supposedly like...
Gina (21:31)
god. Dope.
I love that.
Kathryn (21:43)
I don't want to say it's supposedly a real woman in real life, but she's supposed to just be a regular human who is a witch. the witch description appears to be, there's a lot of liberties taken with what a witch is, as we know, obviously. But it's just interesting. And then the classic very long and pointy nose.
Gina (22:01)
Yeah.
Kathryn (22:08)
Again, just very sharp and angular in all regards, nothing warm and cozy about her. She's not like a plump friendly grandma. Basically, her appearance has changed as her story has been told throughout the centuries. Like I said previously, and as the years have gone on, her appearance, can kind of see in different stories about her, her appearance changes little by little depending on, again, where the story is being told.
and what the story is actually about and what is the thing that people are supposed to fear as a result of the story. ⁓ As an example, one of the reasons you can kind of deduce for her being kind of bony and underfed back in the 1700s, back when her story first started gaining a lot of traction and ⁓ she was first in print and all that, was it was...
considered unappealing back then for a woman to be too skinny because that insinuated that she was undernourished and unable to carry a child. So the insinuation is that that's part of why Baba Yaga ended up in the woods alone by herself, no family or loved ones, is because she couldn't like, quote, sustain a family, you know? And then know, yeah.
Gina (23:28)
That fucking sucks.
Kathryn (23:32)
And then in more modern depictions of her, sometimes you do see her as being kind of that like plump grandma type, only still like very scary looking, which like that's like kind of more the modern insinuation. We're kind of on the other side of the spectrum. However, many decades or centuries it's been like, quote unquote, not OK to be overweight, because in those stories, it's often associated with the concept of like greed.
You know what I mean? the... That's a big like Hansel and Gretel theme, you know? Like the kids are greedy for the candy, they get all flat, fat and plump and she pops them in the stew or whatever. So that's kind of the more modern connotation of what she looks like. Basically, we can kind of surmise that the purpose of her description is just to indicate that she is whatever is the most hideous version of a woman you can encounter.
Gina (24:00)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (24:27)
Alone in the Woods. That is how she is described in each of these stories throughout history. But what's interesting is I feel like that is kind of why we are now in a period where she's often depicted in a much nicer way because I'm going to reference the Lilith episode again and I'm probably going to keep referencing it because I feel like this is just the crone version of the Lilith episode. ⁓
they can both be considered two different parts of the, you know, triple goddess. ⁓ And we're a lot more empathetic to witches in general nowadays. And I think that, you know, we're in an era of life where people are starting to empathize with the bad guys, quote unquote, that, you know, didn't really get a lot of empathy previously. You know, those stories about all the evil witches that
eat kids or curse you in the woods. It's like, well, what the hell were you doing on their property in the first place? You know what I mean? So I feel like that's kind of the era we're in, societally, at least parts of it. And so you often hear stories about her told from a different lens. She's, you know, sometimes she's still scary, but the fear she induces is not meant to be.
Gina (25:26)
huh.
Kathryn (25:44)
fearsome to those who have good intentions. She's no longer just this blanket statement, black or white, good or bad, evil, nice, you know. She has a lot more nuance now and a lot of the negative depictions of her have a positive spin or have a more realistic spin. No one is inherently good or evil. That's a spectrum, you know, and she very much reflects that in the stories told about her.
Baba Yaga’s hut & companions
With that being said, one thing that has not changed in her stories is her infamous hut. ⁓ As previously stated in the intro, it is said that she lives in a house that stands atop two giant chicken legs. So just imagine like a chicken, but instead of a body, it's a house. And when a visitor or often more appropriate per her stories, an intruder approaches her property, the house will like...
get up on its legs and spin, basically to avoid letting the person into the door. know, like it will just keep, yeah, it will just keep turning around to make sure that people can't get into it. It's also protected by a white picket fence, except instead of wood, the fence is made out of human bones. ⁓ Yes, yes. And if, you know...
Gina (26:46)
need one of those.
Kathryn (27:05)
You stumble upon her hut in the deep, dark depths of night. Don't worry, because she also has lanterns sprinkled around her property made out of human skulls. They're like glowing in the eye, in the eyeballs. Yes, exactly. Yeah. What is, ⁓ what is that? Reduce, reuse, recycle? Is that still a thing? Yeah.
Gina (27:16)
Hmm... No waste.
Love it.
Root to STEM, baby.
Kathryn (27:32)
So one of my favorite things that I did not know about her, I really was only familiar with her hut, it said that when she does leave her hut, which she doesn't often do, she rides around in a mortar and she uses a pestle as like basically an oar to like get her through the woods. Yes, yep. And obviously the regions that this story was originally being told, very snowy, particularly in the winter months, so.
Gina (27:48)
What? Really?
Kathryn (28:00)
A lot of the imagery of her is kind of like gliding through snow banks, like using her pestle to like push herself through the woods and she's basically using it as like a sled. Yeah. And then obviously the witch and her broom is a classic image, ⁓ very important trope in the witchcraft community.
Gina (28:09)
Fuck yeah.
Hey.
Kathryn (28:24)
So in a lot of versions of her story, she does have a broom with her when she's riding around in this mortar. But instead of riding it, because she already has a ride, she uses it to sweep away the track that's left behind her so no one can follow her.
Gina (28:41)
that's so smart.
Kathryn (28:44)
Yeah, I just love that image of her, like... Because they do that, you know what that reminds me of? They do that in 101 Dalmatians. Do you remember that? When they're running from Cruella de Vil? That's what... It's like the quaint version of what she does.
Gina (28:51)
Yes, I do, Uh-huh. ⁓
I just feel that would be such a pain in the, with a big ass pestle and it's like making troughs in the snow, that's gotta be a serious broom.
Kathryn (29:03)
Mm.
That's different from just footsteps. Yeah, that's like it. must be that all sounds very heavy, which is interesting because she's supposedly bony and emaciated. You'd think that she'd be beefy as hell. Right.
Gina (29:10)
Yeah.
A lot of upper body strength. Baba Yaga's fucking buff. Buffa Yaga!
Kathryn (29:29)
Oh my god, wait, that's fantastic. I can see that as like a gym shirt. Oh my god, if you want Buffet Yaga merch, let us know. iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com.
Gina (29:34)
I would wear that, yes.
Kathryn (29:44)
So as any good, or I guess I shouldn't say good, as any evil witch does, she of course has some companions or I don't know if they would be considered ⁓ familiars, but she's got little helper people. In some stories, she has these, I couldn't visualize them and I couldn't find any images.
Show them to me, so I'm not fully understanding, but the way I'm understanding it Please correct me if I'm wrong is she's got these hands That like creep and crawl around for her think of like thing from the Adams family Yes, it is my understanding that she has a pair of hands and you know they're her little helper guys and In a lot of stories ⁓ she also has what are known as kind of her servants
Gina (30:21)
Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking of.
Kathryn (30:38)
who manifest as spirits in the woods. ⁓ And these are kind of more ambiguous. They appear and manifest as very different types of things and depending on which story you're hearing. it's basically just a spirit that permeates the woods that kind of allows her to have eyes on the woods at all time. One story they literally manifest as riders.
who like kind of go throughout the wood and just keep watch on who's wandering through the woods, but they appear to just be men on horses. In others, it's wild animals. So, you know, it could be a fox or a deer, just whatever might be out there. Sometimes it's just the elements, you know, she could be in the water, the wind, just what, could be anything really. And that's one of the ones that I did have to boil it down because it almost feels like every single story.
I found of hers, it manifested as something different. So I don't know if they're, think the hands are the only things that are consistently the same quote unquote creature or thing or whatever. Everything else, the spirits are kind of just whatever she needs them to be depending on what's happening.
Gina (31:52)
Those hands sound useful.
Kathryn (31:53)
Yeah, I'm the only... I'm going to be telling a story here in a second and it's funny because in the stories I found that included the hands, they kind of just pop up at some point. Like they're not really doing anything but like being a menacing presence. So this is one of those things that if any of you listening out there do have a concrete and more in-depth...
Gina (31:54)
Very handy.
you
Kathryn (32:20)
explanation on the hands or hand or whatever they may be and the spirit in general. I would love someone to send it my way because I'm so curious about them, but they are really
Vasilisa the Beautiful
So the story is called, I think her name is Vasalisa the Beautiful. I'm to be saying Vasalisa because I don't know how to pronounce it. I did Google all of these things ahead of time. want everyone to know. just, my brain doesn't work. And I got like seven different answers for all of these. So once upon a time. I know me too. That's yeah, I think that's why I landed on it because.
Gina (32:48)
I just keep hearing Vaseline. Sorry. Okay.
Kathryn (32:55)
I'm like, that's easy for me to like say, Vasilisa. Yeah. It's probably like Vasilisa or something. I don't know. Anywho, once upon a time, there was a merchant who had a beautiful wife and a lovely daughter named Vasilisa, probably. They were very happy and they loved each other very, very much. Everything was wonderful. Just great vibes all around. Eventually, sadly,
Gina (32:56)
Yeah.
Mm.
Kathryn (33:24)
As it goes in fairy tales, mom dies. Classic. So she had gotten very sick. It was wintertime and she came down with something tragic. I don't know what it was. And it was kind of a long, slow death. But before she died, she gifted Vesalisa a doll. And the doll had been blessed with the mother's love.
Gina (33:28)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (33:51)
So Vasilisa would never be lonely after her mother died. And this doll wasn't just any ordinary doll. Like I said, it had been blessed. And when Vasilisa fed the doll a little something to eat, maybe a cookie or a nice treat, the doll would essentially, I'm going to say come to life and help Vasilisa in times of trouble. So after her mother's death,
The days turned to weeks and weeks turned to months and eventually the merchant grew lonely and he decided that Vasilisa needed a mother so he ended up marrying a widow who had two daughters. Not sure if this story format is familiar to anyone else.
Gina (34:33)
I was just thinking that.
Kathryn (34:37)
So he didn't want, you know, Vesalisa to grow up with a mother. He was afraid that she was going to be lonely. But she wasn't lonely because she had her doll. And as she got to know her new stepmother and stepsisters, she realized that the doll was a much better company than they could ever be because the stepmother specifically, but also therefore her daughters as well, deeply disliked Vesalisa for no other reason than she was beautiful and kind.
And the stepmother just basically knew that she could never be as loved as much as Vasilisa was. As punishment for this stepmother's ⁓ lack of self-confidence, she assigned all of the most difficult and painful chores around the house to Vasilisa. These were things like chopping wood, cleaning the fireplace, going to hunt for vegetables and wood things.
Gina (35:13)
Okay.
Kathryn (35:36)
While the stepsisters barely needed to do anything, they would occasionally like wipe a counter and that would be enough for their dainty little fingers. What the stepmother didn't know is that the doll was helping Vesalisa with all of these chores. And the doll was basically keeping her company while she would work and then when she would get too tired or sore or sad, the doll would step in and help her and they'd basically tag team everything.
So this was just how her childhood was. This is what was happening moving forward. As years went on, Vasilisa grew into a beautiful and lovely woman who had countless young suitors practically banging down the door trying to call for her. But the stepmother sent all of them away, was just like pretending it wasn't happening. She didn't want anyone calling on the stepdaughter of hers before her own daughters.
They just kept calling and calling and calling until the stepmother devised a plan to keep Vesalisa from finding a suitor. One day, when the merchant left for one of his long trading trips, he'd be gone for months and months and months at a time, the stepmother packed up the family and she just moved them all to a different house. Yeah.
Gina (36:50)
Thank God.
Jesus.
Kathryn (36:52)
I know, I was
like literally gonna pause here because what the fuck? So she moves them to the edge of the forest and the reason she's picked this spot is because she knew that it was right on the edge of the forest near where Baba Yaga's hut was. So what she would do is she would send Vesalisa into this part of the forest to look for wood and other supplies, basically just, you know, what her chores.
Gina (36:55)
you
Kathryn (37:18)
typically were, but this time she knew that she was searching and foraging nearby Baba Yaga's hut, which was thought to be unsafe, So, Vasalisa would go and do her chores, but she always had the doll with her.
So no matter where she would go, the doll would guide her away from Baba Yaga's hut because she was helping her. So finally the stepmother grows frustrated and she demands that Vasilisa go directly to Baba Yaga's hut because the wood that she had been collecting was not good enough for the fire that they needed. And she wanted to go, she wanted her to go and like ask Baba Yaga directly for some wood.
for the fire or something, a lantern or something like that. So Vasilisa goes into the forest with her doll in her pocket and she's hoping that the witch is nowhere to be found. Along the way, she comes upon these three horsemen dressed in white, red and
And they guide her to Baba Yaga's house surrounded by her fence of bones and skulls to light her way. It's very quiet and very dark in the forest and she's not sure if she should approach the bones, but the doll guides her forward. So she's like, okay, if my doll is helping me, then I guess it's safe, but she's still very like nervous and doesn't really want to do it. As she gets closer to the gate,
the witch comes crashing out of the woods, like into the clearing where her house was. And she is riding on the mortar and she's like waving her broom and waving her pestle and she demands to know why Vasilis is
at her door. So Vasalisa explains her stepmother's request for evening light and Baba Yaga agrees to give her something to help light their house in the middle of the night, but under one condition. Vasalisa must work as a servant for Baba Yaga to earn the light. And if she doesn't complete the task to her liking, she will die a terrible, tragic, painful death.
Gina (39:33)
That
does not seem worth it.
Kathryn (39:36)
Right? Yeah, I know. So, Vasilisa agrees because she's like, I don't have much choice. It's either,
Gina (39:37)
That's a whole lot of work.
Kathryn (39:46)
be in physical pain here or like go home to my stepmother for more emotional pain. So she's just like, whatever at this point, who cares? So she agrees, the bones open up and the doors lock behind her and the hands come out and like guide her into the house and like show her what she's supposed to be doing. So Baba Yaga has given her the full list of tasks to complete. That's like what the hands were.
Gina (40:04)
Aw.
Kathryn (40:15)
like describing to her. But with the help of the doll, she was able to finish everything to perfection in like an astonishingly small amount of time. As she's finishing, the three horsemen from the wood approached and like basically surveyed the house and upon their nod of approval that like signified to Baba Yaga that she has done, you know, what
she was supposed to do the way that Baba Yaga would want it to be done. And there was no funny business or anything like And Vasilisa, at this point, she's realizing these aren't just any old three horsemen, weird shit going on with the hands. So she asks Baba Yaga who the horsemen are, what's up with the hands. And Baba Yaga responds saying that they're spirits who help keep watch in the forest and they help her know
going on, but she demands that Vasilisa not ask any more questions specifically about the hands or she will be eaten for prying into Baba's business. So that's why I don't know a lot about these hands because this is how like so many stories go. So, you know, upon the nod of approval from these three horsemen, Baba Yaga gives one last review of Vasilisa's work.
Gina (41:23)
⁓ Okay, wow. Goddamn.
Kathryn (41:42)
And she asks her how she could possibly have accomplished all these tasks so well. She's like impressed with Vasalisa. She was not expecting this to be the outcome. So Vasalisa tells her about the blessing her mother bestowed upon her and Baba Yaga immediately recoils and throws her out of the house because she wants nothing to do with those who have been blessed.
Gina (42:04)
Ha ha ha ha ha, love it. Okay, sick.
Kathryn (42:08)
But before Vasilisa leaves, before she exits through the bony gates, Baba Yaga holds up her end of the bargain and gifts Vasilisa a skull with eternally burning eyes to use as a lamp. And Vasilisa wants to get rid of it. She wants nothing to do with the skull. She's at this point, she's like so freaked out. She's like, this like is cursed. I don't want it.
So when she's made it far away enough, is that right? Far enough away from the hut so as not to disrespect or, you know, yeah, I guess disrespect Baba Yaga by like tossing it into the woods. That's what she plans to do. But the skull like basically telepathically warns her that if she does reject Baba Yaga's gift, the spirits are watching and she will have a treacherous fate.
Gina (43:02)
Okay.
Kathryn (43:02)
another ambiguous thing. Probably she will get eaten. So she keeps the skull. Yes, yeah, you didn't have to warn her. So when she gets back, her stepmother is astonished to see her because she thought for sure she was going to get eaten. But she was kind of gleeful at the fact that she was like dirty and exhausted and very clearly experienced some wild shit and trauma in the witch's hut. So.
Gina (43:06)
nice sculpt.
Kathryn (43:30)
Vasalisa hands the skull to her stepmother and she's like, okay, I have to have this stepdaughter, but at least, you know, she did bring back light. And she's looking at the skull and she's completely mesmerized by it. She was not expecting to see a lantern like this. And as she leans closer to get a better look at the ember eye sockets, it bursts into flames and
it incinerates the stepmother and the two stepdaughters in explosion of fire.
Gina (44:06)
awesome
Kathryn (44:06)
Yeah.
Yeah. So Vasilisa takes the skull, buries it outside and flees out of the woods and back into the city closer to where they used to live. And she ends up taking up work as a clothmaker. And that's where she just is while she waits for her father to come back from his trading trip. And Vasilisa does such great work with the help of this doll.
making the finest, most luxurious fabric that it gets the attention of the king, who calls on Vasilisa so he can ask how she makes such fine fabric. And when she gets there, he takes one look at her and falls madly in love. And then they wait for her dad to come back so that they can have a royal wedding. And then they all live happily ever.
Gina (44:47)
Mm-mm-mm.
Kathryn (44:57)
is a weird fucking story, but I love it. This was like my favorite one that I read.
Gina (45:00)
I do. love that Baba
Yaga's not the bad guy. Really far from it.
Kathryn (45:06)
She's
not, but it's interesting because so many consider her, like she's an evil witch in this story. the time that this was written, I'm not gonna fall too much down a rabbit hole here, because this is one of the things that I could talk about forever, but at the time.
this story was being told as like an oral tradition, it was so awful of her to like murder the head of the household, you know, like this, don't, yeah, like you don't, right, as you should, because what a bitch, but like you don't disrespect your elders, doesn't matter how they are toward you, you know what I mean? Like now, there's some leeway with that, but when...
Gina (45:38)
I didn't even think about that. I was just like, kill the bitch.
Hmm.
You're a lumpa.
Kathryn (45:57)
this story was created, she was an evil monster for doing this, but then you also had sympathy for Vasalisa, so of course she's also going to get her happy ending, you know what I mean? That's why it's so layered, because no one viewed this as good for Baba Yaga. That evil stepmother had it coming. They viewed it as, my God, how dare she commit this murder? You know what I mean? ⁓
Gina (46:05)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Kathryn (46:25)
Yeah, like I said, this is my favorite one that I read and I only read a few. There's many stories about Baba Yaga, but it's my favorite for a couple of reasons. One, I just love a princess fairy tale. We love the Cinderella vibes over here in my household and by my household I just mean me. But Baba Yaga's role in this story, the other reason that I love it is because of what we just described. Her purpose is so layered and...
Gina (46:41)
I'm
Kathryn (46:52)
I really really love the layer of her like rejecting the blessing because that's such a fun detail that means something so different nowadays than it did back when it was being told. You know what I mean? Like that one little detail is my favorite because she was impressed with Vasilisa and you know she was kind of being nice before she learned about the blessing and then she was like, ah get out of here, get out of here. I just like...
Gina (47:08)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (47:23)
I know, I feel like that's such a vibe and I respect it and I hope to be like that someday.
Gina (47:27)
could see that for you someday when you're living on chicken legs in the woods. I really love the idea of your evil stepmother sending you out for like a light bulb from Home Depot and you come back with a flaming fucking skull that explodes her. I think that's hilarious.
Kathryn (47:30)
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Duality of Baba Yaga
Story. It's it's one little fairy tale, but it's got a lot in it. ⁓ This is such a great example. I mean, we've already talked about this, ⁓ but I think I feel like we could talk about it forever. This is such a great example of Baba Yaga's duality and also how she's changed, you know, throughout.
Gina (47:53)
It does.
Kathryn (48:09)
different cultures and time periods and just how society has changed. She's kind of proof that people can be both feared and respected. ⁓ She's someone who punishes people. But an important piece of that that we recognize now that they maybe either didn't recognize or chose to ignore back then is that she only punishes those who have earned that punishment.
you know, when Vasalisa even teeters on the boundary between what Baba Yaga deemed like appropriate versus not appropriate to talk to her about, she warned her and she said, you know, don't ask about my hands or I'm going to kill you. You know, like like she sets boundaries and she makes it very clear what's going to happen if you cross those boundaries. And, you know, boundary setting is a
Gina (48:55)
boundaries.
Kathryn (49:06)
big hot topic now, feel like this is a, you know, we're in a time period where people are like learning it's okay to set boundaries and you don't have to, you know, live with an evil stepmother who hates you if you don't want to and it's okay if you choose not to. But yeah, I think this is a really, really good example of a story that has inspired people to take a second look at Baba Yaga and instead of just viewing her as
an old evil witch who just enjoys being evil. can think of her more as like someone who is going to hold people accountable and like not let them get away with being horrible
one of the things that she represents is kind of the boundary between life and death, good and evil. And I like that. I like that so much of her story does have to do with boundaries and like maintaining those boundaries. And yeah, I think that she's kind of just a reminder that we're all like nuanced people with good and evil inside of all of us. And that's Baba Yaga.
Gina (50:16)
And some of us have more evil
than others. Mainly us. We have most of the evil. Everyone else does. Yeah. We're the emergency. It's like how the US has like an emergency stockpile of like, I don't know, seeds or something. Or maybe that's a global thing. Yeah, there's some place. No, God, no. No, I'm not in the mood to talk about missiles today. There's some organization. I can't remember if it's the US or if it's like an independent thing.
Kathryn (50:19)
Yes, yes we do. We have all the evil.
Do we? I thought you were gonna say missiles.
Gina (50:46)
Or they have like, it's like, they have seeds from like, if there was an apocalypse, what would we need to whatever agriculture. We are that but with evil.
Kathryn (50:46)
You know what? I think I know what you're talking about. Go ahead. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't think that's our government. I think that that's a private entity, but that's just my hunch.
Regardless, wouldn't that be so awesome if we actually did hold the power over all the evil in the world and we could just divvy it up? I would definitely redistribute.
Gina (51:13)
Yeah.
my gosh, that would be interesting. There's so many different types of evil. Even evil is nuanced.
Kathryn (51:19)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (51:22)
Well, that was fascinating. Thank you very much. I enjoyed that. ⁓
Kathryn (51:23)
Anyway, you're welcome. Do you perhaps
have something you would like to share?
Scary on Top
Gina (51:30)
I do have something for you today. We got an email from our friend Brooke.
Kathryn (51:35)
Yes! Yay yay yay! Okay, cool.
Gina (51:37)
and
I'm going to read it to you. It says, spooky ladies, first off, I think it's wild that you've been around for a year, heart agree. It's also crazy that your birthday is my wedding anniversary. Happy anniversary. Me neither. That's great, that's, that's a great anniversary. ⁓ She goes on to say, I have a small little story that happened a lot while I was pregnant.
Kathryn (51:52)
I didn't know that wait.
Happy anniversary! Yeah.
Gina (52:06)
I'm not sure how much you know about the hat man, but once you know about him, once you know about him, he sticks with you. While I was pregnant, I had the worst insomnia. There were many nights I would take Benadryl just so I could get some sleep. And usually that would knock me out, but no, it just made me groggy and go in and out of sleep. During those nights when I would open my eyes,
Kathryn (52:10)
⁓ Jesus. ⁓ God.
Gina (52:35)
I would see the hat man in my closet, and seeing him would give me the eeriest feeling and I would struggle to sleep after. There were a couple nights where I would see the hat man, but able to go back to sleep, but would wake up again to see the figure closer and closer to me each time. The night after one of these nights where he would get closer, I usually wouldn't sleep much at all. I would dread seeing the hat man because being pregnant
You have to pee all the time. And I would have to pass my closet to go to the bathroom. Not a fun time when you don't want to get out of bed, but absolutely need to pee. I know it has been a thing that people take Benadryl in hopes to see the hat man, and I think those people are insane. I didn't know that was a thing.
Kathryn (53:24)
I
never knew that. Fuck that. What the fuck? Who is doing that? iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com. Let us know if you do that. Are you okay? What the fuck?
Gina (53:26)
Fuck that, no way.
Yeah, you
don't need to take cough syrup to summon a fucking demon. There are other routes you can go down. There are people who can support you. Anyway, ⁓ a couple topics that always come to mind when I'm thinking about the Hat Man are Uncanny Valley and the Dream Man. If you haven't seen a picture of the Dream Man, look it up and then think back to your dreams. And if you haven't seen him in your dreams yet, he's probably coming. I would love to
Kathryn (53:39)
You
Wait, I don't
know about the dream man, do you? I don't know about this.
Gina (54:01)
I don't know about the dream man either, but that's perfect because the next
thing she says is, would love to hear your takes on the hat man, uncanny valley and the dream man. Happy spooky season and happy birthday, stay spooky. Here is a pic of my baby girl in her first pair of spooky pants. I'll send it to you.
Kathryn (54:17)
Wait!
Gina (54:20)
I just texted it to you. She's so cute.
Kathryn (54:21)
I haven't seen the baby.
Gina (54:26)
And she's wearing little ghost trousers. I know. No. She's so cute.
Kathryn (54:26)
Listen. ⁓ stop. She's so cute. We're not going to show all of you out there, but trust, she's adorable. So
cute. Yay. That's our first pod baby.
Gina (54:40)
Why is our first blue pod laying a true little spoon?
Kathryn (54:45)
Listen, Brooke, we've been patiently waiting for spooky pregnancy stories because all pregnant women have weird experiences and we just fully trusted that you would have some too. I am not familiar with dream men though. Like sh-
Gina (55:01)
Me neither. I wasn't familiar with the hat
man. I had to look that up. Yeah.
Kathryn (55:05)
my god, really? Okay, Hat Man
fucks me up. hate stories about the Hat- Like, I love stories about the Hat Man because they're so scary, but I hate hearing them because I'm so scared that the more I hear them, I'm scared- He's never come for me. I've never seen Hat Man and I don't want to. And I'm scared that- Yeah, I'm scared the more I hear about him, I'm scared he's gonna come. I don't like- I don't- Ugh. Hat Man really scares me because so many people experience him combined with like sleep- He's a-
Gina (55:16)
⁓
You're gonna summon him.
Mm.
Kathryn (55:34)
big like sleep paralysis guy and I'm just like man I don't want I just don't want to see it.
Okay. I'm looking up Dream Man.
Gina (55:43)
Yeah, not a huge fan.
So I just Googled it. I do know what this is. I have heard it. I didn't know that it was like known as Dream Man, but yeah. Yeah, it's freaky.
Kathryn (55:50)
I don't like that picture. That scared me. ⁓
I don't know about this. Why did that startle me so bad? There's like an...
Gina (55:57)
Just, it's a freaky, it's
definitely an uncanny valley face. I fucking love uncanny valley shit because I think it's interesting to pick out specifically what parts of the thing are uncanny valley, like what takes it from looking real to looking just slightly off, but this is unsettling.
Kathryn (56:02)
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
OK, I'm internally losing my mind because in the images tab on Google, there is one with Dream Man with a side by side with George Clooney, which is a wild thing to do. Like, I'm not going to click on that link because I don't want to see more. But the illustrations aren't so bad, like the big ones, the illustration. But it's the ones where he's been created into like a real person that I don't like.
Gina (56:33)
That is so funny.
Yeah,
those are creepy.
Kathryn (56:44)
Which I feel kind
of bad because he also like looks like he could just be some guy. I feel like he'd be in in like he'd work in like a call center or something.
Gina (56:52)
But there's something about the face. It's not right. It's not quite right.
Kathryn (56:54)
There's something about the shape, yeah.
He looks like he's in one of those, ⁓ like fishbowl lens... things. I don't... Go ahead.
Gina (57:04)
Yes. Yeah. Or like.
I was going to say, have you ever seen the, what if Bert and Ernie were real? What would they look like? That's what it's freaky and it looks like that. Yeah.
Kathryn (57:15)
God, do. I've not and I don't want to see that. That is nightmare fuel. Yeah, no, I don't
ever want to see that. Yeah, I like. I like reading about the psychology behind uncanny valley. I don't like seeing things that are uncanny valley because they don't. I don't like that electroshock type of fear. And that's what it gives me. You what talking about? You feel like
Gina (57:37)
it's interesting.
If I saw an uncanny
valley thing in real life, yes, but when I'm just like in the safety of my little computer looking at pics, I feel like I'm okay.
Kathryn (57:52)
See, that's interesting because I'm the opposite. If I saw an uncanny valley person in real life, I'd just be like, that's unfortunate. But like, people are too creative on the computer for me. You know what I mean? Like if it's like. I don't know. I also think it's like within the confines of I understand that I'm looking at something that is supposed to be creepy, where if it was just out in the wild.
Gina (58:07)
Mm.
Kathryn (58:21)
I would just assume it was a very ugly person. You know what I mean? and I would like...
Gina (58:24)
See, I would assume that it
was like a doppelganger, or a changeling, or a mimic, or like something, you know, that's like taking on the form of a human.
Kathryn (58:29)
Yeah, that's fair.
Yeah, I guess I should, yeah, I shouldn't say I would feel this way, because I really don't know. I've never been in this situation. But yeah, me too. But I have one of the, does it ever happen to you where like your algorithm is totally normal and then once the sun goes down, it's like, why am I getting all this paranormal, like actually scary paranormal stuff all of a sudden? Does that happen to your algorithm? Yeah.
Gina (58:40)
I hope we never are.
Actually, no. No, because I've trained my algorithm
out of trying to scare me.
Kathryn (59:00)
I was just gonna say I don't know how to do that, but I do it's because I need to stop looking at scary stuff But I like it I like it during the daytime, but it doesn't serve any of that up in the daytime I have to go looking for it at the daytime what in the daytime and then You know, I'm trying to look at baby hippos and you know Cute cats after the lights are out, but it's like nope now we're ready Yeah
Gina (59:04)
Yeah, stop looking at it. Stop engaging.
Mm.
Kathryn (59:30)
Anyway, I would honestly, yeah, I would I could talk about uncanny Valley and all that for a long time. So thank you for asking, Brooke. We should do something. Is there a theme that we could do for uncanny Valley? I guess that would just be uncanny Valley.
Gina (59:39)
Yeah.
It'd be a great mini scoop for Patreon, I think.
Kathryn (59:48)
yeah, we could do that. don't know, honestly, we would have to just do a whole bonus episode on that. I could talk about that for days, but we should do, we should start with a mini scoop. We'll have like five mini scoops on it.
Gina (59:57)
Hell yeah.
Yes, yes, I like that. Mini Scoop series. A flight of Mini Scoops. A flight, a Scoop flight. I like that too. But yes, thank you for sending this in, Brooke. And thank you for the picture of your adorable little baby girl, thank you. ⁓ Me too. Yeah, but I think, ⁓ we should talk about what we're doing next month, shouldn't we?
Kathryn (1:00:02)
Yeah. A flight, a scoop flight. I love that. Yeah. Cool.
Yeah, she's so cute. Very cute. I love a spooky baby.
yeah, we raided our ice cream and then moved on. Yes, what are we doing next month? What's happening?
Gina (1:00:29)
We are telling stories
about small towns. Creepy, spooky, eerie small towns. And we are having, do you want to do the ice cream since I did the topic?
Kathryn (1:00:44)
Okay, yes. Sure.
Gina (1:00:49)
Sure, Gina, I sure can. ⁓
Kathryn (1:00:50)
Sure, Gina, I totally remembered
what we were doing and did not just need you to tell me and subsequently edit it out. We will be having ice cream from our favorite local ice cream brands. So that will obviously be different for each of us. We have very different locales. up for interpretation. ⁓ We might be eating different things this month, but who knows?
Gina (1:01:05)
All right.
it and find out.
Kathryn (1:01:19)
Focus is local.
Gina (1:01:21)
Anyway, that's all we have for you today. Until next time, little spoons, keep it cool.
Kathryn (1:01:24)
Cool. And keep it creepy.
