Ep. 24 - The Legend of Dogman

Demons

25 Mar

Gina (00:10)

Hello and welcome to I Scream, You Scream, your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories, mysteries, and true crime. I'm Gina.

Kathryn (00:19)

I'm Catherine.

Gina (00:20)

And every month we choose a new topic and a new flavor of ice cream to go along with it. This month we're talking werewolves and we're having blue moon ice cream, which I think Catherine has an exciting update on. So grab a spoon and let's dig in.

Kathryn (00:35)

Yay! I have some this time! Fourth time's a charm. I've not tried it. I made some. It's very soupy. It's blue. I added some Halloween sprinkles on it just to make up for the fact that I haven't had any. So let's see if I did an okay job.

Gina (00:38)

Yay. And you haven't had any yet. Yeah. Okay.

It's very you.

Kathryn (00:57)

Okay is precisely how I did. It's not exceptional. This is not going to be a five-star month, but it's edible. It's sweet and edible. Yeah. Yeah, I did an okay job considering.

Gina (01:01)

Yay!

But you know what, sometimes, okay is all you need, you know?

Kathryn (01:15)

All things. Yeah, it's edible. Phil did try some before I came up here and he said

Gina (01:16)

Mm-hmm.

Kathryn (01:23)

He wasn't sure if it was Blue Moon, but it is good. He goes, he goes, yeah, I would eat that. And then there was pause and he adds, willingly. So honestly, yeah.

Gina (01:37)

Do you mean,

you mean Phil, your husband?

Kathryn (01:41)

yeah. ⁓ yeah, okay. So remember a couple episodes ago, everyone at home, we made a big deal about me getting married and then we did not mention it at all in the follow-up episode. Sorry. Definitely did get married, just forgot to mention it. Things did go according to plan. So yes, I do mean my husband. We recorded last week's episode, I think what, a day after or two days after?

Gina (01:42)

That you married?

You

something it was right after.

Kathryn (02:11)

Yeah,

because we did it Friday and then we recorded I think, yeah, we did record Sunday. And we did not even talk, like we talked about it for like a second and then we were like, let's go. Yeah, we talked about it.

Gina (02:18)

I Well, I think that was the thing is because we talked about it before we got

into the recording. And so by the time we were recording, we were like, okay, well, that's done. Just move on. But congratulations.

Kathryn (02:26)

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So anyway, yes, I did get married.

Yeah, very small. Just us and our parents. It was great. It was bomb. I was showing people pictures and it was described to me as spooky chic, which like wow. Thank you.

Gina (02:46)

It was, it so was,

yeah.

Kathryn (02:48)

I was very

proud of that. That's- I didn't- It's not- It was not intentional. It was just vibes.

Gina (02:56)

Not intentional.

Those black candles on the mantle just got there by themselves.

Kathryn (03:03)

thought it was elegant with our Baphomet statue in the middle. That was Phil's idea.

Gina (03:06)

love that. I love it. The pictures are so good. Yay.

Kathryn (03:13)

Now it was so much fun. Yeah, I a great time.

Man, this ice cream tastes weird. It just tastes like vanilla with like a little aftertaste of almond and then something else, which is lemon. But you can't really tell it's lemon. I didn't have raspberry, so I couldn't put it in there. Sorry, I'm just like focused on this ice cream because it was such a long road. Anyway, I just had to.

Gina (03:31)

I'm...

I'm so relieved that you have

some now because I have opinions about this flavor and I've been biting my tongue for the last few episodes because I didn't want to like color your opinion of it. We don't have to rate the ice cream now, but I think we both are going to be perhaps on the lower end, maybe.

Kathryn (03:43)

hey.

Okay, I appreciate that. I was gonna ask you. Okay.

Okay.

want to make you decide if we rate it now or later. Why don't we do it now? We're talking about it.

Gina (03:56)

Let's read it now, let's get it out of the way. Okay,

I'll go first.

Kathryn (04:01)

What are your, tell me your thoughts because you've been sitting

on them for a month.

Gina (04:06)

It's a weird fucking ice. Listen, it's a one from me. No hate to anybody who likes Blue Moon. Totally cool and fine by me. This personally is just not to my taste. It reminds me too much of bubble gum and there are no bits of any variety in it. Also, it turns my tongue and my teeth blue, which is probably a manufacturing issue on my end, but.

Kathryn (04:11)

Mm-hmm.

You

Yeah.

I didn't think of that.

Okay, I think I'm good. Yeah, I didn't think of that. Yours was really blue that first time. Let me see.

Gina (04:33)

Yeah, my tongue's definitely blue.

and it's gotten more like bubblegummy ever since.

Kathryn (04:42)

yeah, yours is bluer than- I don't think yours is bluer

than mine, it's just like...

Well, I don't know. Maybe it is. I can't tell. I think mine looks more blue on camera. Mine's like a very, very light blue.

Gina (04:50)

Yeah, I was surprised.

It kind of looks like, almost like blue Play-Doh. You're one like that shade of blue, yeah.

Kathryn (04:59)

Mine does?

It's definitely not that blue in real life. That's, I think, just the camera. Yeah, it's like a very light blue. I was afraid to put too much. I don't have very much food coloring and I don't use food coloring for anything ever. So don't know why I was worried about running out. just like, I didn't want this to be the thing I used all my food coloring on because I already used like half of what I had on the last batch that ended up all over my floor.

Gina (05:04)

Okay.

You

Kathryn (05:26)

which I also spilled again today. I just made this earlier today. I'll just jump right in. This is also a one for me. It would be zero if not for the fact that like I enjoyed the other things I ate this month that were not Blue Moon Ice Cream. I knew that I wasn't gonna like the flavor. I was hoping that me straying from the original recipe was gonna be a little bit helpful.

But it just tastes like vanilla with a little bit of a mystery flavor, which I think is what it's like a gentle Blue Moon flavor, you know? So like I already knew I was not a huge Blue Moon fan. I really just did it for the bit.

Gina (06:06)

Hmm.

Kathryn (06:12)

But while I was making it today, there was some more spillage, which like the one is more about like the experience of trying to make the ice cream was full on zero, like negative 10. So today, ice cream maker worked. Everything with the ice cream maker was good. Everything was fine. But when I like first step in the entire thing, I got my carton of

milk out of the refrigerator and I went to shake it and the cap was not on all the way. Yeah, you know, when the screw part gets stuck on the wrong one and it's like, yeah, it was like sideways and I didn't realize that. I thought I had picked up the one that I hadn't opened yet. So I thought the thingy was still on it. So I was going to shake it and then open it, but it

Gina (06:42)

No! my god!

It's like wonky, yeah.

Yeah.

Kathryn (07:01)

I must have recently just, it felt full, so I must have recently opened that one. So, and I just like didn't realize it. Yeah, so my floor is sticky again, but not as bad as it was.

Gina (07:15)

The

universe just does not want you to have Blue Moon.

Kathryn (07:18)

Did

not. The universe was like, I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to help you out. You're not going to enjoy this. But that's OK. The ice cream, big no. Big no from me. But everything else about this month was great. That first one, that fake one I did using the raspberry and they mixed in some lemon and almond and vanilla. That was bomb. That was so good. I loved it. But it didn't taste like bubble gum at all.

Gina (07:23)

You're not gonna like it.

Yeah.

I believe it.

Kathryn (07:48)

It didn't taste like Blue Moon at all. Yeah.

Gina (07:49)

This, my one is so bubblegummy and bubblegum

is one of my least favorite flavors in the world. I hate bubblegum flavor. It was for the bit. It was for the bit. Yeah.

Kathryn (07:57)

Yeah, I don't know why we... I mean, I know why we did this to ourselves. It was for the bloom... It was for the moon. Yeah. ⁓

Are we telling people what we're doing next month?

Gina (08:09)

to tell people what we're doing next month because I'm so looking forward to that ice cream flavor that I can't contain it.

Kathryn (08:14)

That's what made me think of it.

Yeah, I was gonna say very excited for next month now that I know my ice cream maker does in fact work and it was just a user error last time. I'm very excited. Do you wanna share? I don't remember whose idea this one was. I think it was yours again. Oh, it was, yes. Okay.

Gina (08:26)

Mm-hmm.

It was a collaborative idea.

Yes.

the story goes. So, okay. Our topic next month is demons. Hooray. Yay. Demons. And when we were talking about an ice cream flavor for it, at first I suggested cinnamon because something, you know, red stereotypical like devil demon color.

Kathryn (08:43)

Yay!

Yeah,

we were we felt pigeonholed and it needed to be something spicy. We were like, we're gonna have to do a spicy sweet situation, which neither one of us wanted to do. So Gina came up with the brilliant cinnamon pivot.

Gina (09:01)

Mm-hmm.

And then I asked if there was something we could do with apples because like the fruit of original sin and all that. And Catherine said, why don't we just make like a fucking apple cinnamon, apple pie ice cream situation. So that's what we're doing and that's gonna be delicious.

Kathryn (09:15)

Mm-hmm.

I really just took both of your brilliant ideas and put them into one sentence. Gina was basically like, I don't know, maybe it should be spicy. What about cinnamon? Could we do something with apples? I was like, yes. Let me propose this idea that you just said. Yeah.

Gina (09:31)

And what a brilliant idea it was!

It's gonna be so good. Apple anything is like my favorite

dessert.

Kathryn (09:53)

Me too! That was okay, that was one thing I was gonna say like about when we got married so we just went out to dinner with our parents afterward and my mom asked me do you want me to make a cake like should we get a dessert from somewhere so we can bring it in blah blah blah I was like no because your girl already checked

dessert menu that's like how I made the decision of what restaurant to go to. And I bring that up because they had an apple tart... Did I tell you about this thing? Okay, okay, okay. Okay, yes, yes. It was an apple tart with a scoop of cherry ice cream on top. Can you even imagine how wonderful that tasted?

Gina (10:21)

You did, yeah. You sent me a picture, I think.

Mm.

The most Catherine dessert

ever.

Kathryn (10:38)

So good,

so good. Highly recommend Morrell if you're ever in Milwaukee. Delectable. So anyway, that's like where our heads were at when we were talking about the flavor. But we've already done stuff with cherries, so I wasn't ever gonna propose that. I think like just a classic apple cinnamon pie situation. So good.

Gina (10:45)

you

which is perfect

because it's currently March and I am so very much in the mood for autumn that I can't stand it so this is going to give me the energy I need I think.

Kathryn (11:07)

Mm-hmm. I know.

Anyway, I'm very excited.

Gina (11:10)

But yeah, before we get

to demons and our new favorite ice cream ever, we do have one more episode of werewolves.

Kathryn (11:16)

Oh.

We do. We do.

Gina (11:20)

And I believe

rumor is you have a story for moi.

Kathryn (11:26)

I don't know why I always do this. Every time you go into such a beautiful transition, I'm like, what? What else do we have for them? It's literally just the episode. I was so excited. Did you see me? I was like, what else do we have?

Gina (11:41)

to surprise you with something. I don't know what. And I don't know if you're going to like it.

Kathryn (11:43)

God, no, because that's going to that's going to finally be the day where I'm like, yeah, we have an episode. Okay, well, today's story starts in Wexford County in northern Michigan. So buckle up, because we're bringing it back

The Legend of Dogman Begins

to the Midwest. Wexford County is a very small and

Gina (11:49)

Yes. I have a story to tell. We have a schedule to keep.

Hell yeah.

Kathryn (12:12)

heavily wooded area in the state of Michigan. It was founded in 1840 a different name that I cannot pronounce, but it was renamed to Wexford County in 1843. And it was named for County Wexford in Ireland. Michigan as a whole has a very large Irish population.

shout out to my mom's family because they're one of them and is yours too, right? Or no? Okay, I didn't think so. Okay. But do you have family in Michigan though, right? Am I making that up? Okay. Classic. Okay. don't know why I said that. Classic German Italian.

Gina (12:41)

No, no, the Irish side of my family is, yeah, no.

I have family from Michigan, yeah, but they're Italian and German.

Classic!

Kathryn (13:02)

think it's because I was going to be like me too, but there's zero German in my family anywhere.

basically, around this time, there was a huge influx of Irish immigrants coming into the United States,

they would come into the US from Canada via Detroit a lot of the times, as opposed to more popular...

destination, which was Ellis Island in New York City. There was a big concentration of people coming in through Detroit. Fun fact that my aunts will want me to mention is Detroit is the only city in the United States where you need to travel north from Canada to get into the United States.

Gina (13:43)

Wait, what?

Kathryn (13:43)

Does that

fuck you up? Yeah, I'll share a picture of it. But yeah, you have to like from Detroit, you have to travel south to get into Canada. It's the only spot in the United States where that's the case. Because it like kind of loops around. Yeah, like Detroit's like north of the river to yeah, we'll share a picture. Anyway, I just that's a fun fact. So wanted to share. So that is actually relevant to, you know, the way people kind of traveled and migrated from one country to the next.

Gina (13:46)

Okay.

⁓ that is a fun fact. Geography.

Interesting, interesting. Okay, that is fun.

Kathryn (14:13)

because people would come into the US from Canada and they'd be in Detroit. Now, like, where do they go? The whole rest of the country was moving west at this was when that, like, Manifest Destiny era was kind of starting. And that meant that if you kept going north from Detroit, the world was your oyster. No one was moving that direction. Everyone else was headed west.

So it was just this kind of wide open, empty, ginormous, like wooded oasis. So the people who moved north found a lot of opportunity in like logging and forestry because there wasn't a lot of competition. You kind of had like your pick of the land as far as settlers were concerned.

Gina (14:49)

Hmm.

Kathryn (15:05)

To this day, agriculture and forestry is one of the biggest in the state of Michigan. Outside of auto industry, I feel like everyone thinks of the auto industry, but like further north, a lot of other stuff going on and most of what's going on is forestry and like logging and stuff like that. So because of the focus on the like logging industry and just forestry in general,

Gina (15:14)

Yeah.

Kathryn (15:30)

a lot of the men who were among like the early settlers in the area worked as lumberjacks. it's kind of where our story starts. As the legend goes, one day to lumberjacks whose names I could not find. So immediately I like don't know about the validity of any of this. Yeah, too, like I'm imagining like Paul Bunyan type.

Gina (15:47)

Probably like, Hottie McHoderson and sexy, sexy face.

Kathryn (15:55)

just like strapping young fellas, you know? Yeah. And it

Gina (15:55)

Yes. Just punches a tree and it falls down, yeah.

Kathryn (15:59)

just like, yeah, like eats the twigs for like, because it can't find any chewing tobacco. Exactly. You know you die. Yeah.

Gina (16:03)

Yes. That

is hot, man. I'll tell you what.

Kathryn (16:11)

Listen,

people always ask me how I feel about Phil's beard and I just say, you're welcome because that's all me. Just need a little encouragement sometimes. Okay, so they're out in the woods doing whatever the fuck lumberjacks do.

When all of a sudden they come upon a beast. It was described as being at least seven feet tall, had amber eyes and appeared to be a canine like animal standing upright on its long muscular hind legs. And it had the torso of a man, which I'm kind of like, wait, did we not just describe all the lumberjacks that way? Like, was it just a little lumberjack? I don't know.

Gina (16:50)

Hahaha!

They were just like, brother! My friend!

Kathryn (16:53)

it's like, hello, you are a beast.

Yeah, right? So when the beast noticed the lumberjacks, it let out a quote, fearsome howl that sounded like human screams.

Gina (17:10)

Shit.

Kathryn (17:12)

Yeah, so maybe not a lumberjack. Or maybe...

Gina (17:14)

I don't think Lumberjacks make

that sound.

Kathryn (17:16)

Which actually I'm kind of thinking of it now, it's like, if it just sounded like human screams, could they have just come upon a human screaming? I'm like immediately like, I'm just jumping way far ahead, like I'm just cracking into all my theories now. Yeah, like that's it, that's the story. Thank you for coming to I Scream You Scream.

Gina (17:24)

a really hairy guy.

We've debunked dog man. I will say right

off the bat, this sounds very beast of Bray Road.

Kathryn (17:41)

let's talk about that for a second because I'm going to be talking about that. There is a lot of overlap between the two stories. If you tuned in last week, you know that I was going to do something different, but then I decided upon researching Beasts of Bray Road, I wanted to learn more about Dog Man. So that's why we're here doing this right now. So we can blame it on the Beasts of Bray Road. They do have very similar stories. So that's.

Thank you for mentioning that because that's why this might be this might be a little shorter episode because it's going to mostly be like, all right, go back and listen to episode. Whatever. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah, there is for sure. And it's definitely different, obviously. Otherwise, I wouldn't be doing it. But yes, huge, huge overlap. this is the original story throughout the next several decades. The Beast.

Gina (18:10)

anytime.

get why people like, yeah, I get why there's a connection. Totally.

Kathryn (18:35)

remained nameless. It was just some anonymous weird thing that these two lumberjacks saw and, you know, people believed them and were afraid of, you know, whatever was out there. But it wasn't, it didn't really grow from there. It just was these two lumberjacks saw this weird thing and what the F? Okay, that's it. Nothing more really came from it. Until a full century later in 1987.

a man named Steve Cook was a radio DJ for a station in Traverse City, Michigan. And Traverse City is, from what I could tell, like 45 minutes to like an hour drive north of Wexford County. So still in that same kind of region of northern Michigan before you get up into the Upper Peninsula. It was April Fool's Day and he decided to have some fun with the concept of local legends. So he wrote a song

that he played on the radio called The Legend of Michigan Dog Man. So this is the first time we're getting a name. In this song, he details the lumberjack story. in addition to that original story, he had a number of other sightings kind of woven throughout. I'm gonna tell a couple like snapshots of other alleged sightings that he had in the song.

Gina (19:39)

you

Kathryn (19:56)

He had more, but I'm not, I'm just not gonna read the whole song to you. So I'll paraphrase a few, but we'll link the song so that people can read the lyrics and or listen to it if they wish. So the first one was about a farmer in a town called Buckley, Michigan, who was found dead and he was slumped over his plow and surrounding his plow was a bunch of dog prints and the

From what I could understand, it wasn't like a violent scene. He just was dead and surrounded by dog tracks. This happened in 1897, so 10 years after the lumberjack story. 20 years after that, in 1917, a sheriff was out walking and found a wagon that had no driver, the horses were found dead nearby. The horses all had wide-eyed expressions on their faces.

Gina (20:32)

Hmm.

Kathryn (20:52)

as if they had been very startled and it again it wasn't violent there wasn't blood or anything like that was like they died of fright basically and no one ever found the driver's body. I believe they also found dog tricks dog tricks what the hell's the word dog tracks dog tracks at that scene as well. In 1967 a group of

like young people, they were describing the song as hippies. So young people with a van were camping in a van in a national park. I don't know which one, but a national park in Michigan.

So they flagged down a park ranger in a panic and told him that they had been awakened in the night by the sound of scratching at the van window, which no thank you. And when they checked to see what it was, they saw a half dog half man creature staring back at them. And it is said that it had a smile on its face, which I don't love, but makes a good story. So there were other

Gina (21:41)

Oooh.

Mmm.

Kathryn (21:59)

counts, like I said, chronicled in the song, but this is just a sampling I plucked out to showcase a couple of things. from what I could find, none of these stories can be found, published or told anywhere before the lyrics of these songs, of this song were created. appears that they were written for this, like...

I don't know if these legends or stories or rumors existed before Steve guy wrote this song. Maybe verbally it could be one of those like local legends that, know, urban myths or legends or whatever. But in the greater internet world, the source that people track all of these stories to is this song.

Also, another fact you can kind of pick up from the song itself based on these alleged sightings, Dogman makes an appearance in Michigan every 10 years on a year that ends in seven. So that was never explicitly stated in the song, but he kept naming years that these things took place and they were

every each decade in years that end in seven. So the first one was 1887. And then every 10 years from there, there would be another dogman sighting. So if we're like in the world, yeah, if we're like in the realm, we're like, this is a true story. This kind of supports the whole Beast of Bray Road being dogman and there's like a migration pattern because Beast of Bray Road, none of those sightings ever took place on a year that's ended in seven.

Gina (23:16)

It's almost time!

Yeah.

Kathryn (23:33)

So there could be something to that. Yeah.

Gina (23:36)

⁓ I'm in. I'm

Kathryn (23:38)

Yeah, I know. I love that.

needless to say, this Steve guy has played a pretty big, if not like the main and potentially only, role in the development of this legend. I shouldn't say only because once this song was released, It was not like...

presented as fact in any way. This was very clearly like a full April Fool's Day thing. was a prank. People knew that. Despite that, people of responded to it and were like, I had an experience that kind of matches what you're describing. like, people started talking about Dog Man by name. And even though the stories in the song couldn't be strongly substantiated,

a lot of, I guess, substantial stories did come out as a result of it. So it kind of turned into like a, you know, was this based on something? Or did he like accidentally like capture something that is real that people have seen and he just accidentally gave it a name? It was started as a joke and people were like, ⁓ wait, no, this is real. Or is it

Gina (24:34)

Thank

Kathryn (24:48)

one of those things where, I don't know, what is the, there is a name for like, people they see something just because they're kind of told that it is an option of a thing to be seen. Do you know what I'm trying to say? It's like, you wouldn't have, it was like, a lot of the stories were like, hey, I saw something weird.

Gina (25:03)

⁓ yeah, I know what you're trying to say.

Kathryn (25:10)

never would have thought about it. It did look like a weird dog, but now that I know there's a possibility of there being a dog man, maybe that's who it was. And like, it just the faith in that just kind of grew over time. There's a phrase for it, some psychological something or other. Regardless, like it does kind of beg the question, where all of these other stories were coming from.

Gina (25:20)

I can't think of the word for it, but I know what you mean.

Kathryn (25:33)

The stories themselves, like people's response to this Dogman story and just, you know, this radio DJ as a whole, it all stayed very local until Linda Godfrey started researching Beast of Bray Road. She got wind of it while she was doing research, trying to figure out what the beast could be. She learned about the song and learned about like this whole

local legend over in Michigan, which is very close by to Wisconsin, particularly northern Michigan, the culture is very overlapped. And that's kind of where things started to pick up steam because she wrote about it, she used him as a store as a source when talking about who the Beast of Bray Road could be. And Dogman kind of grew from there. So they kind of grew in tandem, they they they each supported each other.

as their own individual local legends, but like separately. Do you know what I mean? Like they like complimented each other. you can almost think of them as like, if they're not the same being, the legends themselves are like kind of cousin cryptids, you know? Like they have very similar backgrounds and they grew into local lore and grew nationally kind of in the same way.

Gina (26:33)

Mm-hmm.

Aww.

Where does Dogman live?

Kathryn (26:54) Part of what I think helped them grow is Beast of Bray Road is exactly that. It is a beast that is seen on one road in one state in the country. Dog Man, there's a lot more, a lot more space to kind of speculate who and what it is outside of Beast of Bray Road. So we'll like just separate ourselves from that story for a second.

Dogman sightings have happened in many states. We'll link the map, I found a really fun dogman sighting

I believe the states that have the highest concentration of dogman sightings are of course Michigan is number one, followed closely behind Wisconsin, then Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Illinois. So like kind of upper Midwest Great Lakes region, and then it trickles down into the South and then moves out West. you can see dogman's been seen everywhere.

which kind of again sort of begs the question of like, is this just one singular little cryptid? Or is this a weird type of animal that people are seeing? Like, is this like a supernatural thing? Or are people just seeing weird dogs or weird wolves or whatever it might be? You know what I mean? Steve himself has been very clear that he does not ascribe to the Dogman story being real, which

makes sense because he literally made it up. Like he is literally the one who like put a name to So it makes sense that he wouldn't necessarily believe in quote a dog man. But similar to what we talked about, you know, like Linda Godfrey in the Beesip Ray Road episode, he does believe that the people who've come forward with dog man sighting since the song was written, he does believe and support the fact that they have

Gina (28:20)

Yeah

Kathryn (28:45)

scene thing so he's not just like ⁓ you know blah blah blah it's not real blah blah they're just the legend of quote a singular dog man creeping around the area is and i'm speaking for myself now i i think it's a little harder to ascribe to just because of how many sightings there have been and well we'll read a couple here in a second but

A lot of the sightings have been a little bit different. So it's just one of those things where it's like, a lot of the stories are very similar in the way people encounter these beasts, but it's not like you see the same one all over the place everywhere you go. You know what I mean?

Gina (29:27)

Mm-hmm.

Kathryn (29:28)

so if it is all a joke, could people actually be seeing? I know like we just kind of dove into that a little bit, but think specifically with the lumberjacks, I want to go like all the way back and like what everyone could have been seeing because that like there was no rumor, there was no song at that point, there wasn't any

indication that they could have seen anything weird. One of, think, I don't want to say most popular explanations, because the most popular explanation is, it's just dog man. Like they just saw a weird dog beast. There's not much discussion on what other type of beast they could have seen. There is some talk of Bigfoot in the area. Like that is, that is like a Bigfoot

What's the word I'm looking for? I would! That's what I was trying not to say! Like, I was trying to, like, find, like, a more, like, on-the-nose... Yes, like, that's the Bigfoot Stomping Yeah. Territory is the actual word I was looking for, but yes, stomping ground is what I wanted to say. Yes. ⁓ territory. But yeah, so there's... It's definitely one of those areas that, like, you'll be driving down the street and there's, like, a Bigfoot's gift shop or whatever, like, you know?

Gina (30:19)

Would you say it's his stomping ground?

What, territory?

Okay.

Kathryn (30:47)

don't know, have you spent a lot of time in northern Michigan? Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just very... it's just for our listeners who haven't, like, not much has changed since 1887 in northern Michigan. Obviously, it's a lot more populated just because the whole world is a lot more populated, but it's still very rural. lot of, like I said, forestry is still the number one industry up there. I think one of the

Gina (30:49)

I have definitely been to places like that, yeah.

Kathryn (31:15)

close seconds is just tourism, a lot of like lake houses, kayaking, you know, it's just very like nature-y and shit. Anyway, so... I myself am an indoor girl. I like nature. I do like nature. I don't like

Gina (31:27)

Sorry, I loved that. Okay. Sorry, keep going.

Kathryn (31:38)

Well, I can't say I don't like camping because I've never been camping. I just... I'm scared of the dark. I don't know what else to say. Like, why would I want to put myself in a position where I'm vulnerable in the woods in the dark when I could just be in bed, you know?

Gina (31:42)

Reported encounters with Dogman

So I'm going to share a few, ones I'm going to share I got from a website called dogmanencounters.com. Extremely straightforward. This site is great. We will link it. The stories. Yeah,

Gina (38:15)

I'm gonna open it.

Kathryn (38:18)

it's organized in a really great way because if you go to encounters, it's organized by state and then if you click on the link for each state, they're organized even further by county. So it's really easy to see if you have any in your area. If you're listening instead of watching, Gina is flipping out right now.

Gina (38:32)

God

I'm gonna spend

all evening on this site.

Kathryn (38:37)

Yeah, it's interesting. lot of it. Well, before I jump in, I do want to say a lot of the stories are very similar. And I also have to say the stories are like, so American, like for our listeners, like, and I do not mean this in like a negative way at all. feel like usually that has not a connotation. But I feel like they really paint a picture of the areas that these take place. like one of them, I don't know, something like, you know,

I live off of highway whatever the heck that intersects with blah, blah. And I never leave my house without my 10 millimeter on my hip. Like truly, which like, yes, that is like fully what happens up in the Northwoods for sure.

Gina (39:11)

That's so American, yeah. home.

Kathryn (39:21)

So the person who runs this website does do a couple different things. They have a Dog Man podcast, to my knowledge, based on what I read. There's also a Bigfoot show as well. full credit, to this website.

fun resource if you're interested in some more Dog Man stories, but I'm going to read a couple of them here. So the first one is from an anonymous sender. The account happened on July 20th, 2015. So just about 10 years ago.

It was late at night after a small barbecue slash party at my uncle's farm miles north of Ann Arbor. I was coming out of the barn to get some more food when I heard sticks breaking in the tree line to my right. My first impression was that one of the dogs got outside, so I went to go see if this was the case. I walked toward the sound and remember hearing the creature flinch because the movement stopped as I approached. I called out for the golden retriever and peered into the trees.

house and with a white paint job on it, they created a glow that allowed me to see better. About seven feet off the ground, a long muzzle poked through the trees, followed by the full figure of this creature. It was only 20 feet from me.

So I got the full picture. It was tall and lean, but very muscular. It had distinct brown pelt on its body with blackish fur on its shoulders. It had huge paws for feet, but its hands looked like they had five fingers, so they resembled long human hands instead of paws, except for the fur and claws on them. Its head was the scariest. This thing had a huge set of canines.

It looked like it was snarling, but I believe it was trying to smile. Kind of like the hippie van. Just FYI. I don't know. I couldn't make out exactly what its eye color was because of how dark it was, but they pierced into my soul. As the creature came into full view, I remember saying out loud to myself, werewolf. I backed up slowly and the creature stood there. Right? Okay. Like, help me out. How do we think that this person said this?

Gina (41:18)

Hmm.

Pfft.

Kathryn (41:41)

pause. So I remember saying out loud, to myself, werewolf. Do we think he like yelled it? Because definitely not chill. But was it like a werewolf? Or was it like, werewolf? Because that to me, like a scream implies not to myself. Like I'm trying to alert.

Gina (41:47)

Werewolf!

think he was chill about it.

Maybe a panicked, yeah, yeah, maybe something like that.

Yeah, yeah.

But I also think the way that you remember yourself saying it retrospectively might not be what actually, like he might have thought that he just said it to himself, but he actually screamed it. You know what I mean?

Kathryn (42:07)

people around me.

Or maybe like, yeah, I do know what you're saying. Kind of like, yeah, that's definitely like a fright thing. Like when you're so scared, you're like scared speechless. Maybe he was trying to say it for everyone else, but was like, were were were you know, like that type of thing. Anyway, werewolf. That's what that is. OK, I've got like two sentences left. So.

Gina (42:25)

Yeah.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like to think that he was just like, werewolf. Sorry, okay, keep going. I'm good, I'm zoned in, I'm ready.

Kathryn (42:48)

He says this thing to himself some way, somehow. Then it says, backed up slowly and the creature stood there like a proud man standing over a deer he had hunted. It watched me for about 30 seconds, but it felt like 30 minutes. That's when my father, uncle, cousin, and grandfather all came out of the barn. When I tell you this thing ran, I mean it ran, it turned around.

dropped on all fours and leapt into the forest making only a slight noise. I told my cousin about it, but he didn't believe me.

Gina (43:21)

that's fucking creepy

Kathryn (43:21)

so that's spooky.

Yeah, right. That's like a they full on described like actually a werewolf as it as they look in like CGI horror movies. Is that what you're imagining? Like actual like Wolfman post CGI what the Benicio del Toro? That's what I was imagining. Have you seen? Wait, I don't think it's out yet. There's a new Wolfman coming out that I really want to see. It looks gory though, which I don't love but

Gina (43:32)

Yeah, that's what I was picturing, Yeah. Yes.

Might not be for me. I have not seen Wolfman.

Kathryn (43:50)

love the Wolfman movie. Yeah, maybe it's out.

I don't know. I'll tell you about it when I see it. It looks good. It looks very good. Anywho, so the next one is my favorite. I really, really like this one. It is from someone named Sue and it took place in July 1975, which also had to point out neither of these took place in the seventh year. So yeah, yeah.

Gina (43:59)

Okay.

gonna say? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Kathryn (44:17)

So that also

lends to the maybe they're just regular werewolves or something else. Yeah. Okay. So it says, I was newly married about 21 years old and had a small baby. My sister who was a teenager was visiting us. I know I was going to move past that. I was going to just move to have it. So this was 1975. I know that that's still kind of young for 1975, but like

Gina (44:21)

We acknowledge, we acknowledge and we move on.

Sorry, sorry. 21, okay.

Kathryn (44:47)

Man, can you imagine having a baby at 21? I could, I literally couldn't even pump my own gas at 21 practically. like I'm joking, but emotionally. Shortly after, yeah.

Gina (44:55)

Yeah, no. You, you, no, you didn't know me when I was, you knew me when I was 22 and you remember what that was like.

Yeah, no. There's no fucking way I could have had a baby. Okay. I'm so sorry I keep interrupting you with my social commentary.

Kathryn (45:09)

That's okay.

No, was gonna try to move past that and I was like, there's no way she's gonna let me go on. There's just no way. Well, also because, okay, sorry, now I'm interrupting my own self. One of my favorite things about all the stories we talk about when it comes to people in their 20s is like stories that take place in like the 1800s. like, they were 30 years old and you're like, 30? What a baby. It's like, no, they were like almost a grandma at that point.

Gina (45:15)

I couldn't, I couldn't hold it in.

Kathryn (45:39)

That is like one of my favorite recurring things in all of our episodes is us acting like 25 is like a newborn in 1850. Like this woman has seven children at this point.

Gina (45:44)

I know.

It's such a- I can't contain that reaction though. Like it just pours out of me.

Kathryn (45:57)

Yeah.

I think I almost have the opposite reaction. Anything before my lifetime, I'm just immediately like Stone Age. Like those people were like child brides at 13. Like, so 1975, I'm kind like, all right, 21. Like, that's normal. That is still young for 75, though, I will say. Like, no judgment or anything. I just like the average age of having children had moved up. I feel like this is more like

Gina (46:10)

You

Kathryn (46:26)

our parents were born, their parents were like 20, 21.

Gina (46:31)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, one of my grandmas

got married when she was like 14 or something crazy like that. So it's, yeah, it happens.

Kathryn (46:36)

Yeah, which

in that would have been earlier than this, but like, not by much, no.

Gina (46:41)

think it was actually

16. Well, she had my dad and yeah, no, it would have been way before this. Yeah, it would have been way before that.

Kathryn (46:44)

I was gonna say 14 was still young for, yeah. But 16

wasn't, 16, 17, 18, that was all normal. Because

Gina (46:51)

Yeah.

Okay, sorry, sorry. Yeah, you got one sentence in. Please read me the story. Okay, okay.

Kathryn (46:56)

I'm gonna read it again too, so

yeah, just be prepared. Okay.

Gina (47:00)

I'm ready this time.

Kathryn (47:26)

loud howls slash yell. I mean, it was so loud, it made my chest vibrate and my ears hurt. The sound was not human, but had a guttural human like sound mixed with what sounded like a wolf. We were living in a mobile home at the time and it held just outside our back door in the hallway near our bedroom. We jumped out of bed, looked at each other and both said at the same time, what the hell was that?

My husband was an avid hunter. He wasn't the kind of guy to scare easily His face drained of all color. My sister came running down the hallway white as a ghost and said what was that? I told her I didn't know my husband said he was getting his rifle and grabbed it out of the closet He opened up the back door and yelled out into the wind. You better get the bleep out of here or I will blow your head off Hell yeah

Gina (48:20)

Hell yeah.

Kathryn (48:23)

Welcome to Northern Michigan.

He listened a moment before I yelled at him to please shut the door. He did and we never heard anything anymore after that. Needless to say, we stayed up all night afraid to go to sleep. I've never forgotten that howl. There's no way it was a dog or coyotes. I've heard both of them howl.

It wasn't a guy joking around either. It was so loud there is no way a human could have made a sound like that.

That's it.

Gina (48:55)

Even

though I kind of giggled a little bit when you were reading it, I do think it was very brave that the husband tried to yell it off.

Kathryn (49:01)

Yeah, I think especially so let's even just say it was just your standard wild animal. That's why I would not go outside, you know what I mean? Like, you never know.

Gina (49:10)

Me neither, no, yeah. I'd be hiding in my closet

or hiding under the blankets doing the whole if it can't see me, you know.

Kathryn (49:15)

Right.

Yeah, I agree. Anyway, as a reminder, those are both from DogmanEncounters.com. We will have those linked in the show notes. So check that out if you want to read some more. Yeah.

That's pretty much it. That's the history of Dogman and the Dogman legend. It is surprisingly short and straightforward. Literally just started with some Traverse City, Michigan DJ in Northern Michigan, like pulling a prank. That was literally it. And it just grew. And now it's like part of cryptid lore, basically.

Gina (49:48)

I respect that.

That's such an interesting evolution because like writing a song about there being a cryptid, spurring tons and tons of discussion about said cryptid is very funny, but the stories and the number of sightings make me deeply uncomfortable and make me feel very uneasy because that's very scary.

Kathryn (49:58)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, because I think... I think a quote-unquote werewolf sighting would be so terrifying because of the...

connotation we have based on like horror movies or just stories and legends and blah blah blah. But in reality, would it be, and this is a genuine question because obviously I don't know, like would it be that much different from just running into a wild animal? Like just

Gina (50:31)

Hmm.

I don't

think so.

Kathryn (50:49)

Because like, feel like running into like a bear or something would be just as scary, you know what I mean? Because the only, the only thing that I can, I feel like it's that whole, the fear of the unknown, you know what I mean? Like I am significantly, that's another reason I don't want to go camping is I'm afraid of encountering a bear because I don't have any survival skills whatsoever. So I would be significantly more afraid of that situation than someone who's like a wilderness explorer.

Gina (50:55)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Kathryn (51:18)

or something, you know, who like has those skills and understands. But if a werewolf is not even confirmed to exist in any capacity, it's like no one knows what to do when you encounter one, you know what I mean?

Gina (51:21)

Yeah.

Yeah,

then you could, yeah, I think the encounter I imagine would be very, it would be hard to think critically in that moment, because fight or flight would kick in so fucking hard. But I feel like a really difficult part of it would be the aftermath when you try and be like, okay, what was that thing? Like, what the fuck did I see? And then trying to tell people about it maybe they don't believe you. I think that would be, like the psychological damage that that could cause would be pretty significant, I think.

Kathryn (51:40)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

That's a good question. If you saw a werewolf, if you saw, let's say you had that first encounter where you know for a fact what you saw standing in front of you outside of a barn, the lighting was clear, you know what you saw, would you tell someone and who would you tell? And... Okay.

Gina (52:19)

Yeah, you.

Kathryn (52:21)

Yeah, I guess I knew the answer. Maybe that's subconsciously why I wanted to ask.

like, would you so for like, would you try to like convince other like, yes, you would tell me take me out of the equation because I'd be like, fuck yeah, did you get pictures? Not for proof. I'm just curious. Like, was he cute? I don't know.

Gina (52:30)

Okay.

Ha!

Yes, I would try and tell people. I would try and package it in a way that didn't make it sound like it was a werewolf. I would probably make it sound like there was just a dangerous wild animal because I would get concerned about attacks. like, yeah. So like if it was in a campground, for example, that I saw this thing, I would want to get everyone else out of the campground in case this thing became violent. So I would try and find a way to, like, I might just say there's a wolf and then deal with the fact that it was a werewolf later.

Kathryn (52:50)

Mm-hmm.

Like I saw this weird thing kind of thing. Okay, yeah.

⁓

Smart.

Okay, interesting. So yeah, it wouldn't be about trying to convince people you saw a werewolf. It would be like, hey, this is spooky.

Gina (53:17)

Yeah, but then later on, I definitely would for sure try and convince people I saw a werewolf.

Kathryn (53:22)

I don't know what I would do.

Gina (53:22)

once I knew that there was not like

an imminent danger of someone getting eaten or something. Yeah, what would you do?

Kathryn (53:28)

I know, I'm gonna be totally honest. think, I'm so sad to say this out loud, but I honestly think I would be even nervous to tell you. Because it would catch me off guard so much and I think I would question it so hard that I think I would be more inclined to like, call my therapist. Like, then believe it.

Gina (53:37)

Really?

Kathryn (53:55)

But I don't know,

Gina (53:55)

I get you.

Kathryn (53:55)

I don't, I guess like... But then me in reality, I don't think, that's like what I'm afraid would happen. I don't think in reality that would, I think I would actually.

tell you slash fell. I think I would be so scared of what I saw that it would be very realistic of me to just think I had gone in shock and like, blacked out and had a weird daydream, you know what I mean? Because like,

Gina (54:22)

Hmm.

Kathryn (54:27)

Again, I don't have any survival skills. But then you know what? I think back to when we saw that bear when Phil and I were in the UP. And like my first thought was like, my God, like, what do you feel? Like, can I pet you? Like, how close can I get? Like, I immediately was like, sweet baby, cutie boy. Like, immediately. So like, I guess I don't know. See, I'm telling you, no survival skills.

Gina (54:34)

Mm-hmm.

hahahaha

Okay, so don't do that.

Okay, so you're not, yeah, don't go camping alone ever, maybe. If you do go camping, yeah.

Kathryn (54:57)

No, I can't because I've seen those

videos of like, you know, the big national parks and like, what was that video? There was like a grizzly that had been following people on the trails. Did you see that? There was like a period of time last summer. I don't remember where they was in like Yosemite or something like that where like it was very like high traffic. And this bear was just like really irritated with everyone and it kept causing problems. And like even just watching that video.

Gina (55:06)

Mmm... Mm-hmm.

I don't remember.

Kathryn (55:26)

Like I think I would have a heart attack if I saw a bear fall, a grizzly bear following me. When we saw the black bear in the UP, we were like unreachable and it was cute. Like it was a small black bear. Yeah, like it was not threatening. Like it was definitely, yeah.

Gina (55:38)

Black bears are like, you they're fine. no bear is a fun bear

to encounter in the wild, but black bears are, like American black bears are pretty fine.

Kathryn (55:47)

Yeah,

I just wouldn't trust myself in that situation. So, I don't know. I think like...

Gina (55:52)

I get that.

Kathryn (55:55)

If I encountered a werewolf from like my car or something, if I was in a spot where it could not get me, hun-no pee, I would tell everyone I ever met. Like, but I think like if I was in measurable danger, I think I'd be like too scared to say anything. You know what I mean? Like I don't know if I'd process properly.

Gina (56:10)

Like wouldn't, yeah, yeah. That makes me wonder.

Makes me wonder how many sightings haven't been reported. If this thing is real, if werewolves are real, how many people are just keeping it to themselves because it's, because it's so difficult to like, when you see it alone. It's like we were talking about that a few episodes ago when there's no one to verify that you saw what you saw and tell you that, hey, you're not crazy, that thing was real, you know?

Kathryn (56:19)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah.

There is a time where I genuinely thought I saw a unicorn. From the bottom of my heart, I was in the car with Adam and we were driving down the road and I saw what I thought looked like a strange horse. So I said, hey, look at that horse. I go, it like clicked before my mouth could catch up with my brain.

I spat the words, my god, no, that's a fucking unicorn. And I was so sure and so confident and so like, it just came out of my mouth because I was like, that's what I'm seeing. That's what my eyes are seeing. Anyway, it turned out to be a donkey and it was none of those things.

you

I think it was standing in front of something that like, do you know what I mean? We were in a moving car going 60 miles an hour on a country road. It was one of those and I saw it from afar and we were coming up close to it. But that process of verbally communicating happened so quickly. I was just sharing what I was seeing in real time and Adam was just driving like, what the fuck? What is happening? Yeah.

Gina (57:31)

⁓ okay, yeah.

Hmm.

I love that.

Kathryn (57:58)

if I was in a situation like that, I would for sure share that I saw a werewolf. contrary to what I just said, I'm usually very good at spotting animals. Like while I'm driving, That one unicorn situation was an outlier. I don't know what was going on there.

Gina (58:15)

I'm horrible at spotting animals.

I'm the worst at it.

Kathryn (58:17)

Yeah,

I'm pretty good. I'm like surprisingly good considering I like don't pay attention to a lot of stuff. Like I'm pretty good at... Yeah. But I wonder now that I'm saying it out loud, I've never like talked myself through this out loud, I wonder if I'm like subconsciously looking for like a crypt. Like if I'm searching for like the beast. Do you know what mean? Like I think that might be part of it. Yeah, I'm always... Yeah. Maybe I'm Van Helsing. I don't know.

Gina (58:24)

That's my problem. I'm not observant at all.

It never turns off. The hunt is always on. not the hunt. The search.

Yes, Catherine Van Helsing. it's like from what we do in the shadows. Guillermo. You're Guillermo. Yeah.

Kathryn (58:46)

Yeah.

My god, yeah, Guillermo.

God wait, I love Guillermo. But like I wouldn't want to be Guillermo. But definitely the best one. Me too.

Gina (58:57)

Me too.

Me neither, but I love Guillermo and I love the actor who plays Guillermo. Yeah.

Kathryn (59:06)

Man, I miss that. Did you finish watching that show? Okay. Okay. I feel like it ended so well. love to that show. Nadia is like Nadia remind me Nadia, not Nadia. Sorry. Nadia reminds me so much of you. Like so much.

Gina (59:05)

my god. We did. I think we did. I'm pretty sure we did.

Yeah. I.

That

is so nice. ⁓ my God, thank you. Because I'm in love with Laszlo, like Matt Berry in general, in love with him.

Kathryn (59:24)

Yeah, I know. I know.

my god,

Yeah.

Gina (59:34)

I don't think that, I mean,

I guess if I had to pick a character that reminded me the most of you, it probably would be Nandor.

Kathryn (59:41)

Okay, that's kind of what I was hoping for, but like, I don't think I'm any of them, but I do feel like, I feel like I'm...

Gina (59:47)

You're the most like

Nandor I think.

Kathryn (59:50)

Because he's very like, I don't mean this as an insult to myself, but he's very like, just kind of basic. But he's got a lot of fun ideas. I like his ideas.

Gina (59:59)

I meant it in like,

he has such a combination of like happy-go-lucky, really kind of adorable when he's exciting about something, very charming, but extremely bloodthirsty and very, very dangerous. That's you. Yeah.

Kathryn (1:00:09)

He's adorable, yeah.

Okay, yeah, I feel like I love that vibe. Yeah, I

like Nandor. I always hesitate to say Nandor is my favorite character because I don't mean basic in a negative way, but there's nothing like... they all have very specific types of funny and he's kind of like baseline. Like he's kind of like the foundation.

Gina (1:00:31)

Yeah.

But he's so funny.

Kathryn (1:00:37)

I just love him. think he's like, I think he is actually my favorite character, but I also think it might just be because of that. It's like, I actually relate to him. He also like is a little bit of a tantrum thrower, which so am I. I like the fact that he literally just like will not set Guillermo free. Like I would do that shit. Like if someone's helping me, I'm not gonna turn you into a vampire. Like who's gonna help me? Yeah, I fully relate to the end part. It's such a-

Gina (1:01:03)

I need to re-watch that show now.

Kathryn (1:01:06)

Good show. I actually that is like one of the few shows that I'm like so happy with the way it ended. I think they did a great job. I think that they wrapped it up in a way that did it justice. It just ended. It literally just ended this fall. So if you yeah.

Gina (1:01:07)

It's a great show.

don't know if I did finish it because I can't remember how it ended. Yeah, I don't know. Then no, I don't think I think I watched

all everything except for maybe the last season.

Kathryn (1:01:27)

Yeah, it's a great season. They did a good job. really highly, highly, highly, highly recommend.

Gina (1:01:30)

Okay.

I have my work cut out for me.

But thank you for the story about Dog Man.

Kathryn (1:01:36)

Well, you're welcome. That's it.

It's kind of short. I felt kind of bad that like, you know, it really just is as straightforward as it seems. Yeah. Me too.

Gina (1:01:46)

I dig it. I dig it a lot. And I think that was

a great way to end Werewolf Month because that is such a classic tale. it's a very classic cryptid tale, so I think that was excellent. And I'm very much looking forward to Demon Month.

Kathryn (1:01:53)

It is, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Before we get to Demon Month, we do have a little surprise next week. We're gonna do a little palate cleanser before we jump into the demons. We're not telling you what we're gonna be doing. It's a surprise. But just fair warning, if you tune in next week, definitely worth joining us. Don't wanna miss it. But we will not be jumping immediately into Demon Month. So.

Stay tuned. More to come. Join us on Instagram or Facebook if you want to know what we're going to be doing. And yeah, as a reminder, rate and review. I feel like I forgetting to remind people to follow us. are, I almost said functional. What's the word? We're active on the socials. So give us a follow. We're functional, sort of. Give us a review.

Gina (1:02:30)

Yeah.

We're functional on social media.

Kathryn (1:02:54)

wherever you listen to podcasts, that would really help us out. And yeah, until then, spoons, keep it cool.

Gina (1:03:02)

Keep it creepy.

Werewolves

I Scream You Scream

Ep. 24 - The Legend of Dogman

The Legend of Dogman Begins

Where does Dogman live?

Reported encounters with Dogman

Ep. 26 - Lilith

Ep. 25 - Amityville