98: Poveglia Island
Gina (00:10)
Welcome to I Scream You Scream, your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories, mysteries, and paranormal perplexities. My name is Gina.
Kathryn (00:18)
I'm Katherine.
Gina (00:19)
And guess what? You can now get episodes early and ad-free on our new Patreon tier. It's very exciting
Kathryn (00:25)
Yay!
Gina (00:26)
because what better way to ring in spooky season than to listen to next week's episode today, and without any corporate propaganda whatsoever. So if you wanna
Kathryn (00:35)
Ha ha ha.
Gina (00:37)
join the cool kids on Patreon, like our new friend Lou, shout out Lou, thank you so much for joining. You should totally check it out. Link is in the show notes.
This month we are telling stories about hospitals while we have some vanilla ice cream. So grab a spoon and let's dig in. did change up my ice cream today. Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (00:54)
Okay. Did you? What is
it? Tell me while while I look for a lactate.
Gina (01:02)
The eternal search. it is pear and vanilla.
Kathryn (01:05)
That sounds really good.
Gina (01:06)
I
was very intrigued. So we'll see how it goes.
Kathryn (01:11)
Did you take a bite? How is it?
Gina (01:13)
The texture's horrendous. That's that is not good. it's just not what I expected. It's kind of more like a pear slushy.
Kathryn (01:21)
Ew, I don't like that.
Gina (01:21)
Yep.
Okay. So that's one bite and I'm done.
Kathryn (01:26)
Is the flavor bad too?
Gina (01:29)
it's very sweet. A Like a little too sweet.
Kathryn (01:31)
Ooh. Yeah,
I hate things that are too sweet. I hate, hate, hate it.
Gina (01:37)
Yeah, same.
Kathryn (01:38)
Yeah, this I'm still eating that honey ice cream. So good. I also made 'tis the season and we I have the sugar cookies.
Gina (01:46)
yum
miss those. Those are good.
Kathryn (01:50)
We only make them a few at a time when we make them.
I loaded up when they first hit the shelves and I've just been keeping them in the freezer.
Gina (01:57)
We have Christmas stuff in the store here and so I've been buying some of like the special Christmas
Kathryn (02:02)
Yeah.
Gina (02:03)
snacks that they have and I found they're like you know those pretzel twists
they're cover, it's like a churro cinnamon twist, and they're so good. They're at
Kathryn (02:11)
Ooh, yum. That sounds good.
Gina (02:15)
MS right now. If you're in the UK, run, do not walk. my god, you guys, can't believe this new. It's so good.
Kathryn (02:22)
Are you gonna do an unboxing?
Gina (02:24)
I get so many of those videos. Like, not the earnest ones, like the ones that are satirizing the whole, my
Kathryn (02:27)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (02:31)
god, you guys come with me. I'm obsessed with them. I think they're so funny.
So does Kathryn. She's just not
Kathryn (02:38)
Sorry,
I need I'm eating my cookie. It's very crunchy. Hold on.
Sorry, that was a little alarming. I was expecting it to be I'm not used to eating things when I eat the ice cream. You know what I mean?
Gina (02:52)
We did pick an interesting food to eat in front of microphones.
Kathryn (02:56)
Yeah, I'm surprised more people aren't like mad about it. Although I guess they just don't listen.
Gina (03:01)
Yeah
spooks.
Kathryn (03:05)
That's the neighbor dog. That's the corgi across the
Gina (03:06)
Never mind.
Kathryn (03:07)
street. His name is Cheese Curd.
Gina (03:10)
Cheese curd the corgi. my god, that's precious.
Kathryn (03:12)
Mm-hmm. He's so cute. He's a
he's a mess. I love him so much.
Gina (03:18)
Can't remember what we were saying. I have no idea. It's
Kathryn (03:19)
I was gonna say, I'm so sorry. Cheese curd just derailed that.
Gina (03:24)
gone. But what's new with you?
Kathryn (03:25)
We are doing our best to work our way through our Halloween slash October watch list. Do you guys ever do that? Do you make like a Halloween must movie must must watch situation?
Gina (03:38)
Mm we don't have a seasonal or holiday one. We have a running list that we keep that we know we need to watch, but
Kathryn (03:43)
Yeah, so do we.
So around this time of year, we will like put together a list of, you know, these are the Halloween slash autumn movies we have to watch.
And last year we just were an absolute mess because we did it way too late. And you know, Phil, he's like, we must watch this and this and this. And before you know it, there's like 60 movies, and we have like a couple weeks to get through them.
Gina (04:06)
Yeah.
Kathryn (04:09)
and this year we're, so we'll be out of town for a wedding in a couple weeks, and we just have a lot of things.
Scheduled, we're doing a lot of we don't usually the thing we do is watch Halloween movies, but this year we're like doing a lot of things too. So it's like, okay, the list is capped at 20. And I will not watch a single more, a single movie more. because addition to the movies we want to watch, there's two shows premiering that we really want to.
Which will be out, I think, by the time this is published. So the Carrie show that Mike Flanagan
Gina (04:44)
Mm.
Kathryn (04:45)
is doing will premiere soon. And that Camp Crystal Lake one it's about Mrs. Voorhees from Friday the 13th. It's like a prequel
thing.
so it's like we have shows on this list as well, which is a first for us. So I'm very scared. Very scared about our movie watch list, I know.
Gina (05:04)
That's a lot. Even twenty movies I feel
like is a lot without two shows on top of that. You're gonna be busy.
Kathryn (05:09)
Not in this household, Gina. I'm so tired all the time. I even like watching TV
that much. This is like I I'm the thing it's so I'll share the I'll maybe I'll put the list on Patreon, the full list, a little
Gina (05:21)
Yeah, you should
Kathryn (05:22)
incentive to head on over there. but it's things Phil's got stuff like, you know, the standard slasher movies and stuff. And mine is like Scooby-Doo Zombie Island. Like Halloween.
Gina (05:34)
A classic of a genre.
Kathryn (05:35)
He so he has learned like
So when he starts making lists each year, he just automatically puts on Hocus Pocus, Halloween Town, and Scooby Doo Zombie Island. And then
Gina (05:45)
Good man.
Kathryn (05:46)
the rest is pretty much his.
Gina (05:49)
I still have most of the list that you made me to watch. Recently someone
Kathryn (05:53)
Yeah, I forgot about that.
Gina (05:55)
someone told me that I should watch Jennifer's Body and I was like, that's on the list of Kathryn. Every time someone recommends
Kathryn (06:01)
I was gonna say there's no
way that's not on the list, yeah. Okay.
Gina (06:03)
no, it a hundred percent is. Every time someone recommends
like a Halloween-y kind of scary or horror movie that they think I'll like, it's always on the list that you gave me, and I always get to tell them about the list that you gave me.
Kathryn (06:11)
Excellent. Yeah, that I Phil
had never seen that either and that so that was on our list last year. was a good movie. Ahead of its time.
did I tell you what we're doing this year? I can't believe I don't think I've told you this. It was
Gina (06:26)
Think so.
Kathryn (06:27)
thought this was my early birthday present, but turns out it was just a fun surprise. We're going to see a scream screening, a screaming, if you will, with what's his face? My there's like a QA afterwards with fuck, what's his face? my god, what's his name? David Arquette. He played
Gina (06:49)
Really?
Kathryn (06:49)
Officer Dewey, yeah.
Isn't that funny? I'm
Gina (06:51)
Dude, that'll be so much fun. Yeah, I love that.
Kathryn (06:55)
very excited. It's so random.
Gina (06:57)
That's like one of the most nostalgic Halloweeny movies to me. That's one of the earliest ones I remember watching,
Kathryn (07:03)
That is my all time favorite horror movie.
Gina (07:06)
at the time we're recording this, other mommy is coming out very soon.
Kathryn (07:10)
yeah, see that's the other thing. There's a lot of good stuff coming out in the theaters. Other mommy, I think, is the only thing left on my list for the movie theater this year. Although when we went to see Buddy, there was a bunch of good like Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day trailer releases.
Gina (07:27)
Mm.
Kathryn (07:28)
Ooh, you know what comes out Christmas Day this year? Werewolf.
I'm very excited about that one.
we've never been like a Christmas Day movie type of family, but I kinda want to this year 'cause I'm really dying to
Gina (07:39)
Mm.
Kathryn (07:39)
see that movie. So we'll see. 'Cause we don't go to my parents until the afternoon this year. Or not this year, but like that is the tradition. So I don't know, maybe we'll hit up a little Christmas matinee. We'll see.
Gina (07:50)
I'm very Yeah, Halloween is gonna be great this year. I'm very excited. It's on a Friday, is it not? Am I right? Is it not Aha, okay.
Kathryn (07:53)
Yeah. Yeah. Saturday? No, it's it's Saturday. Yeah, it's a Saturday.
remember seeing something. I don't know if this is true or not, but
That might also be daylight savings because everyone was talking about like, extra hour for Halloween or something like that. But that feels early for daylight savings, doesn't it?
Gina (08:13)
I never know when daylight savings is coming and going. I have no idea. It confuses me every time.
Kathryn (08:16)
I guess I don't either,
Gina (08:19)
I always have to do it so slow in my head, like spring forward, fall back, so that
Kathryn (08:21)
I know. Me too.
Gina (08:24)
means that the yeah, it's not intuitive to me at all.
Kathryn (08:26)
Yeah. 'Cause
fall's the good one. 'Cause you can sleep
Gina (08:29)
Fall is the good one.
Kathryn (08:30)
in, right? Yeah. but I mean none of this actually matters 'cause time isn't real and everything's
fake.
So
Gina (08:38)
Yeah. Including medical care. Should we talk about hospitals?
Kathryn (08:44)
Should we? I don't even want to anymore.
Gina (08:47)
Ha ha ha.
Kathryn (08:49)
Primo transition, sadly.
Gina (08:52)
So sorry about that.
Kathryn (08:57)
I'm I'm really I'm already gonna steamroll myself because this is an intimidating topic for me. I'm I have a bit of a cold open, so I'm I'm
Trying not to I don't think it's even a cold to open. It's just like an actual transition into the story, which I'm not currently doing. Okay, so today. Sorry, we did as I was speaking just now, I did get hit with like a crisp ass fall breeze through my open window and I did lose myself there for a second. So I'm sorry about what just happened.
Gina (09:27)
that's beautiful.
Kathryn (09:29)
Alright. Today we're talking about Paveglia island. has a silent G, just like my good pal lasagna, but I do w I do keep accidentally saying Pavaglia, so I'm sorry if I slip up. Me too.
Gina (09:43)
That's what I've been saying in my head this when you said it, I was like, did I s
what?
Kathryn (09:48)
No, it's Paveglia apparently,
Gina (09:49)
Okay.
Kathryn (09:50)
because that's how you pronounce it in Italian. There are a couple other island names that I'm gonna just do my best because I didn't look them up. so start in advance, everyone. stick around, please. I'm begging you. Okay. So this island is lovingly referred to as the most haunted island in the world. So I'm about to bring the mood immediately down. Nestled in the Venetian lagoon, it is a tiny
Teeny weeny abandoned island in the north of Italy that has nothing but rundown remnants of a former community. It has been overrun with nature because it's been abandoned for so long. it's not to mention a history steeped in death.
For centuries it was used to quarantine people during various disease outbreaks, most notably the plague, and countless people are said to have died there. Later came a hospital, along with stories of disturbing experiments and eventually a reputation for some of the most visceral, ghostly encounters people have had.
The story of Paveglia Island is, as I said, overwhelming to me because one of the most haunting things about the story is how little we actually know for 100% certain, despite the fact that we can trace its origins all the way back to the 400s. Majorly fake number. I know. Remember that crash out I had when you mentioned the 1200? What was it, the 1200s when
Gina (11:23)
Yeah.
Kathryn (11:23)
you were talking about Bedlam? Yeah.
Didn't know that this one can be traced back to the
Gina (11:28)
Holy cow.
Kathryn (11:28)
400s. Not the hospital itself, but the island and kind of its origins. So the earliest record we have of Paveglia Island by name is dated 421 AD, when the island served as a haven for refugees fleeing invading armies during the fall of the Roman Empire, which I also feel like is a fake thing.
Anytime someone
Gina (11:53)
Wow.
Kathryn (11:54)
mentions the Roman Empire, I'm like, Sure, okay. Like, I don't know, I don't
Gina (11:58)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Kathryn (11:59)
know why. It's just like that. The fall of the Roman Empire has like Atlantis vibes to me. I don't know why. I'm sorry. Okay, quote Roman Empire. Anyway,
Gina (12:07)
Yeah, whatever you say, history, sure.
Kathryn (12:15)
so this is where I I make things a little complicated for no reason whatsoever.
Like I said, it is in the Venetian lagoon. It's right next to the Long Island not Long Island. The island of Leto, which is a long island.
Gina (12:31)
Long Island.
Kathryn (12:32)
It's right next to Long Island. but yeah, Leto is like kind of a long stringy island that separates the Adriatic Sea from this lagoon. I am I I'm making this super complicated. Basically, the thing that I want to drive home is this island is pretty isolated considering it is part of a cluster of islands. It is a little bit further out than all the rest of them. so
While it's not out in the middle of sea, it is one of those places where if you are here without a boat, you are basically fucked. Like you are stuck here. It is pretty out of the way. blah. Anyway, so this island was a thriving little community for many centuries. You know, it was very small, close-knit community of fishermen and salt traders.
Until the late 1370s and early 1380s, when Venice and all of Venice's surrounding islands came under attack. So the pavilions who had been living there since the 400s fled to escape this new war, and the island remained either completely or almost completely abandoned, depending on who you ask, until it got a second life.
Or third life, I don't know what life we're on for this little island. when it became part of essentially the immigration process for Venice. That happened in the 1700s. So, like I said, several centuries later. At that point, it was under the jurisdiction of the public health office. And it was one of three islands that served as a quarantine for people who arrived on ships that had cases of plague on board.
Plague? The plague? Which one is it? I've always Okay,
Gina (14:22)
I think either. I'll say either.
Kathryn (14:25)
I'm gonna say the plague. They were plagued with illness.
Gina (14:29)
Ha ha ha.
Kathryn (14:30)
So they got sent to Paveglia. fun fact, this has nothing to do with anything, but I wanted to include it. Venice was one of the first places in Europe slash the world, I think, to practice a formal quarantine process to help control the spread of disease when people moved in and out of the region.
they were some of the first ones to like get that shit on lock like real fast. The word itself comes from the Italian word quarantina, which literally means a forty day holding period of isolation. Yeah. I know, isn't it nice? It sounds really beautiful.
Gina (15:04)
It's also a beautiful name. Quarantina.
Kathryn (15:07)
Yeah. All these Italian words that I'm probably super mis mispronouncing are all very beautiful.
Gina (15:13)
Yeah.
Kathryn (15:15)
but yeah, so Paveglia,
was one of three islands that acted as one of these quarantine stations So in 1776 they built this large hospital known as a Lazaretti or Lazarette. This name comes from Saint Lazarus, who was the patron saint of lepers and
It refers specifically to a place for maritime travelers to quarantine. I just love how all these words are coming from this one little island. This is like
Gina (15:48)
And Lazarette
was the same name of the place where when we did the Mar Mary Russell episode when that
guy was under the floor, yeah, he was in the Lazarette where you would put
Kathryn (15:53)
Yes. When I
Gina (15:56)
storage and plague people.
Kathryn (15:58)
The one that I was so thrown off by because I was like, what the fuck is that? I literally was gonna mention that. Like I I was like, as I was doing
Gina (16:02)
Yeah.
Kathryn (16:05)
my research, I was like, I feel like this I've heard this before, but I don't know why. And it got to a point where I was like, my God, that's literally that weird little space. Yeah, it's it's a holding spot, specifically for maritime it's like a maritime term, in this instance, it refers to like a specific
type of quarantine essentially.
The other two islands were Nuovo and Vichillo, I think is how it's pronounced. I don't know. I'm sorry. Vichillo is what I'm about to say. Sorry. So so those two islands were the main islands used for quarantine. But then in 1793, two ships stopped for their normal health check, you know, trying to get into Venice.
And they discovered several cases of the plague on board. so the first two islands were overflowed at that point. They were already filled up with patients, and these two ships needed to be sent to Paveglia. And from that point on, most ships were sent here instead, partially because of just space availability, but also I think partially because of what I said previously. It is much further away and it is.
much more isolated than the other two islands, which are kind of within the cluster of Venetian islands. So it it it just felt a little safer to people on the main islands to have people further out. So I think starting at this point, Pavilio did become a more primary spot to isolate people.
So, like we were talking about before, this is several centuries after the official outbreak that we all know as like
The Black Death or what else do we call it?
Gina (17:52)
Black plague, black death, yeah.
Kathryn (17:53)
Black Plague, yes, yes, yes.
so that's like the big kahuna. But after that, after things got out of control, there were several smaller outbreaks throughout Europe over the course of the next several centuries.
So this is happening throughout Europe. there is one particularly big outbreak that covered, I think, Germany and like into northern Italy.
All of this is to say, the point I'm trying to make is Paveglia was a primary quarantine station throughout all of these outbreaks. So it did begin to have a kind of a dark and heavy reputation because it was basically just known as the place that was riddled with sickness and death and just where you would send people. Essentially, not to be crass, but it kind of felt like the
Type of place where you just left people to die, especially when it came to the plague. You know, at a certain point there was only so much you could do for people. So if you're quarantined on this island in the middle of nowhere, it it just eventually got this really dark and heavy reputation. in modern times, some people estimate that the number of plague victims deaths
on Paveglia Island specifically would number in the hundreds of thousands over the course of several centuries. Keep in mind, this is a teeny tiny island in the middle of a lagoon, hundreds of thousands of deaths. Is a little bit crazy. So it begs the question: if this is the case, where did all of those bodies go? Depending on who you ask, you will get one of two answers.
Many claim that the island over time essentially turned into just one massive plague pit. it was essentially just a mass grave at a certain point. The arguably more popular and discussed theory is that the bodies were piled up and burned because the island was too small, that there literally wasn't even a place to have like any type of plague pit. They just didn't have space for that type of thing. So it was
speculated that they just burned the bodies instead. And because of the size of the island and the number of people that some people claim died on the island, legend has it that to this day upwards of 50% of the soil on the island is made up of human cremains.
Gina (20:23)
Cool whoa.
Kathryn (20:24)
I was gonna say, I'm gonna
let you react because that is outrageous. I do,
Gina (20:28)
That's wild.
Kathryn (20:29)
I do wanna say it in like more recent years has become clear that this is likely just a rumor. And I say likely, but like we are confident that it is not true and was more
Gina (20:43)
Mm.
Kathryn (20:44)
likely born out of the spooky, haunted reputation of the island and used as a way to kind of describe.
Or I guess like back up the haunting claims of the island. And not not saying that the island isn't haunted. we'll get a little more into the hunting part of it later. But it's just one of those spots where it is so heavy and the energy is so thick and dark that these stories started to grow out of that versus the haunting energy growing out of the fact that that did happen. And we're confident about the fact that this is just a rumor because there
A is no scientific evidence to back up the claims that the soil is any amount of human remains at all. But also simply the number of deaths on this island honestly couldn't realistically be in the hundreds of thousands. it didn't become a quarantine station or specifically like a hospital where people were spent s were sent until the 18th century. And that was well after.
Black Death, like we were talking about. And there just literally weren't hundreds of thousands of plague deaths in the Venice area at all, let alone on this one specific tiny island. Yes, it is true that, like I said, this is a very old island. So some people argue that, you know, this number could be collected throughout the centuries. But remember, before people fled because of the war, this
I this island was completely isolated during the Roman Empire. So anyone who was there then would have essentially already been safe from any plague because they were already quarantined here, basically. You know what I mean? Like they were kind of already in this safe haven. So there were very few deaths on the island in those kind of almost said prehistoric, to me, prehistoric times.
Gina (22:45)
Might as well be.
Kathryn (22:47)
As far as I'm concerned, nothing happened before the fall of the Roman Empire, apparently. Anything that happened before that is none of my business.
Gina (22:53)
huh.
Kathryn (22:57)
but but it just mathematically doesn't make sense. And historians kind of scoff at that number because it is so ridiculous. They say, based on the number of people who lived here throughout history, because remember there were also several centuries where there were no people living there at all. so
you know, the number of people who lived on the island at any given point plus the number of reported plague outbreaks or cases or diagnoses or whatever, they guesstimate the number of deaths was closer to dozens, not hundreds of thousands, which mathematically is a big difference.
Gina (23:36)
Yeah, yeah, I would say that's that's a big difference. I
Kathryn (23:39)
Ha ha ha.
Gina (23:40)
mean that's a ver the whole fifty percent of the soil is made up of hum like that does paint a picture of
Kathryn (23:45)
Right.
Gina (23:46)
the destruction of humanity that happened there, but hundreds of thousands
Kathryn (23:50)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (23:50)
is because I I didn't actually realize this was the island you were talking about. When Tom and I went to Venice, we did take a boat past this
island,
Kathryn (23:59)
I was gonna ask you.
Gina (24:00)
I can't even picture thousands of people on that island, let alone hundreds of thousands, even
Kathryn (24:04)
Yes.
Gina (24:04)
if they were dying and making room for other people. Like it it seriously
Kathryn (24:07)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (24:08)
looks like the water just hiccuped a little bit and a tiny, tiny like it's just not big enough at all.
Kathryn (24:14)
it's barely the size of a small town. Yeah.
Gina (24:16)
Really tiny.
Kathryn (24:17)
Yeah, very small. I forgot that you would have but 'cause I knew you went to Venice. I forgot that you would have I should have like asked you about this. Did they talk about Paveglia at all? Okay.
Gina (24:25)
Well, I didn't know a
little bit like w we took a ferry from one area to a different area and it was the kind of place
Kathryn (24:31)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (24:33)
where like you we went past it and I can't remember if we looked it up 'cause it I thought it was a cemetery. It looked like a cemetery to me or a ghost town or something like that. It had like a weird energy. And so we either Googled it or asked somebody and they told us that it's where they used to
Kathryn (24:43)
Yeah. interesting.
Gina (24:47)
quarantine plague victims. And I was just like, cool and just moved on and did
Kathryn (24:51)
Yeah.
Gina (24:52)
no further research or anything.
Kathryn (24:54)
Okay. Yeah. No, this honestly is validating in some of the stuff that I found because one of the things Some one of the things that I found was that it's very much I don't wanna say it's not talked about because it is, but it's not something it's not something that anyone in Venice is gonna be like.
Paveglia Island, like blah blah blah. Here's the
Gina (25:17)
Mm.
Kathryn (25:17)
like some people do, yes, but it's not something that people are like announcing because it's very much not a place that they want people to go. And we'll get into that later. But they're it they
Gina (25:27)
Okay.
Kathryn (25:27)
don't want anyone curious about stuff on this island, basically. I know that's the exact appropriate reaction. This story's wild. It's one
Gina (25:37)
Tell me more, Kathryn.
Kathryn (25:39)
I'm just like blown away because I'm like, this is
I don't trust any of the information I got about this island, but I'm telling the story anyway. More on that later.
Gina (25:48)
That's where they're hiding Mothman.
Kathryn (25:51)
my god, wait. That's so funny. What if they are? Well, more on that later. Well,
Gina (25:56)
He moved to Italy. Okay, sorry, yeah. Please continue.
Kathryn (25:59)
I should clarify, not specifically that, but theories ahead. We'll talk about Mothman in a bit on his Venetian cruise. Okay.
So, yes, even though the island's dirt is probably not mostly human flesh, doesn't mean that that's the end of Paveglia's dark history and therefore reputation.
It continued to act as a Lazarette until the 20th century, during the First World War, and again, depending on the source or who was speaking, even the second world war.
It acted as a military hospital for members of the Italian military. then in 1922, the island was converted into a long-term care facility for elderly people specifically. but pretty much any very similar, I'd say, to Bedlam, where in any hospital of this era where it like it had its specific purpose, but then also
And et cetera. You know, you could just send whoever needed any
Gina (28:06)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (28:07)
type of long-term care, but like it kind of had nursing home vibes, I would say. And this is where the history gets incredibly shaky. depending on where you get your information from. So I truly looked high and low for more specifics. And this is an era where I'm not used to there being literally no information. Four hundreds, sure, whatever.
You can keep your secrets, none of my business. But the 1920s, it
Gina (28:35)
Yeah.
Kathryn (28:35)
it was very strange that there is a huge lack of information. I reviewed every level of credible source you can imagine, from like sketchy blogs with typos to like official Italian historical sites. And all of them had it seemed like the same level of information.
So that right off the bat kind of adds to the mystique of this place because it's immediately like your reaction just moments ago, like, what the hell's going on there? Like, what are you trying to hide? what we do know is like I said, the hospital opened as a long-term care facility, no longer a you know, quarantine lazarite, whatever, in 1922. And
In addition to the long-term care facility, one of its primary uses was a psychiatric hospital. in you know, 1922, we are fresh off a world war and our knowledge of adequate psychiatric care at the time is very small. Therefore, the most accurate description I found of
the hospital in the few iterations I could find where I like things did go into a little bit more detail. it described the care that was provided to patients as quote, rudimentary at best and at worst completely barbaric.
yeah.
Gina (30:01)
Okay.
Kathryn (30:02)
Just like, and I'm not laughing because it's funny. I'm laughing because it's just like this feels very much like the type of thing that we're gonna continue hearing this throughout the entire month
Gina (30:13)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (30:14)
just because that's like, well, of course, here's another one where they opened this hospital to quote unquote care for patients. And it's not that they didn't want to, it's that they genuinely didn't know how. And because it was a long-term care facility.
It wasn't it wasn't just patients. It was people who were living out the rest of their lives here, but also needed mel medical care to some degree. and it just wasn't provided in the way that these patients needed it to be. And again, like I've I'm already feeling like I'm being redundant redundant. we'll just keep saying that all month long.
one of the worst things for the majority of psychiatric patients in general is prolonged periods of isolation. So right off the bat, the fact that they were sent away to an island literally in the middle of nowhere with no escape was questionable at best. And of course, people didn't know. at the time, in their minds, it was more of a
Like respite, which is also a good thing, you know, for many psychiatric patients. A respite and time for, you know, decompression and rest and lack of distractions can be good. But when you're piled up amongst a bunch of other patients who also need an extreme amount of care, respite can turn to isolation and abandonment pretty quickly. And that is something that is thought to have happened at this hospital quite a bit.
Specifically because there literally was no escape for this patient. Like they couldn't have their family come and like take them for a walk around the neighborhood or whatever, because they were just in the middle of nowhere. top of the fact that this was a place where plague victims were sent to die at one point in history, that's something that kind of contributed to
Claustrophobia doesn't feel like the right word. It feels like it's a little it cheapens it a little bit, but it almost was like, How are we supposed to get better on this place that already has centuries and centuries and centuries of a terrible reputation? Even if you are trying to care for us, like that's kind of an impossible feat.
Not to mention the fact that this isolation meant that the hospital staff had essentially no oversight whatsoever. Being so far away from any governing body meant that they could pretty much do whatever they wanted and no one could stop them. to this day, I
Gina (32:45)
no.
Kathryn (32:46)
know it it's I will say, well, whatever, I'll just sorry, I'll keep going. Okay.
it is said to this day, we really still don't know exactly everything that went on there. so it could theoretically not be as bad as is estimated. the problem is there is no proof that horrible things happen, and there is no proof that great things happened either. And based on what we know about everything I said previously, just people's knowledge of
Mental health, but even just long term health in general. Like healthcare was not great in the nineteen twenties, let alone the mental health care. So based on that alone and the fact that there was a huge lack of oversight, we can surmise that things were not great on this island. A lot of the things that were said to have happened on the island weren't even done with malice. It was just genuine ignorance.
One of the staples in the Paveglia Island lore is Rumors of a chief physician who wasn't ignorant. He was actually just a terrible person with barbaric practices. He is person who made conscious efforts to make sure that.
I don't want to phrase it necessarily like no one made it out alive to tell their tale, but it kind of has that vibe where like he didn't necessarily want people to know what was going on on the island. So he didn't put a lot of effort into keeping these people alive or helping them get well in general. He would just use them as an experimentation device. I w I do want to say we do not know this doctor's name and
A lot of people speculate that this is just a rumor. This is lore that was born out of the fact that this island is so creepy and sinister and has such a dark history. But enough stories have cropped up about this happening that we do wonder, like, could there be some truth to this? Like, could letters have made it to family members about this doctor and he just wasn't named because they didn't want to get in trouble? You know, there's a lot of speculation like that.
One of the biggest claims against this man is that he and his staff would perform unnecessary medical procedures on patients without any anesthesia, just to see what would happen. Yeah.
Gina (35:17)
my god.
Kathryn (35:20)
And most famously, he would perform lobotomies. and it is said that on top of the lack of anesthesia, they also would just use unsterilized tools.
Which that by this time people were sterilizing medical devices. This is not like pre-germ theory or anything like that. This was in the twenties.
again, this cannot be substantiated. I don't I couldn't track down where the origins of these stories were. if it was just local lore or urban legend, or if it is something that was born out of some level of truth. I really don't know. regardless whether or not the stories are true, it is of course the source of the most famous ghost story on the island.
As the story goes, this doctor worked for many years at the hospital and was responsible for so much pain and agony and even death on the island. Eventually, after causing so much darkness and sadness, he started to feel haunted by the memory of all of the pain that he caused throughout his time there. And it is said that the spirits of his former patients drove him completely mad and he
essentially lost it one day. He snapped and he fled and he ran up to the top of the bell tower, at the top of the steeple at the church that is on the grounds, and he jumped from the tower. Legend has it, you can see the silhouette of a man in the bell tower to this day. and he's always there when no one is supposed to be on the island. Like no one has approval to be there. There is shouldn't be anyone on the grounds.
And people have claimed to see him jump off only to discover nobody anywhere to be found. lot of haunted places that we've discussed have the kind of classic whispers and like, I saw something out of the corner of my eye, and then it was gone. but this one's a little different. On Paveglia Island, it is said that people have seen.
full on experience or sorry, people have had full-on experiences with people that look like they are genuinely on the island. It's not a quick flash and it's gone. It's like a visceral there is a human on this island with me and then they disappear. to the point where people are convinced that people are breaking in on a very regular basis, only to find them gone in the blink of an eye.
they also hear full-blown screams. It's not, like I said, it's not like a a whisper situation. it is said that people have heard like screams of agony. It sounds like people are in pain and crying out. and it is worth noting, there is no known animal on the island that would make a sound like that. There are herons and like other seabirds and stuff. but it's not like a
It's not like a bobcat in the woods, you know what I mean? When it's like you can kind of explain stuff like that away.
Gina (38:27)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (38:28)
There's there are bunnies on the island. Bunnies all over the fucking place, everywhere. Yeah. Which, like I guess, but like,
Gina (38:32)
The famous screaming bunnies.
Kathryn (38:37)
but it's so distinctly human, crying out in pain that it's not it's not a bird. You know what I mean? Like, you know what a seabird
Gina (38:43)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (38:44)
sounds like. if you live in Venice, you know, and yeah, like people are confident that that's not what they're hearing.
It it's straight up like a help, please help me. The sound of someone calling out for someone in a great deal of pain. Which would really freak me out if I was like in the middle of a sea and I just heard that randomly.
Gina (39:04)
Dude, I right? You're stuck
on a tiny island in the middle of nowhere with a ghost that's a
Kathryn (39:09)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (39:10)
crazy evil doctor and you hear someone screaming for help. Catch me jumping into the waters as fast as po I become a
Kathryn (39:13)
Yeah, that would be so scary. Into the my god. See.
Gina (39:19)
shark.
Kathryn (39:19)
And even that is so scary to me. That is like, I think that is one of my biggest fears. Like open water, I can't do it. I can't do it. So but even I'm like, yeah, I feel like I would be tempted to do that too. That feels like the lesser of two evils. Yeah, I'll just I'll just sir do my I'm
Gina (39:33)
I'll strap you on my back. I'll be like a sea turtle and you can I don't know why that's like a sea turtle, but
Kathryn (39:41)
like your
Knapsack. Or I could surf on you. I could surf on Gina.
Gina (39:43)
Yeah. It's like that one
It'll be like free Willy. Except not at all in any way.
Kathryn (39:54)
We're los we're losing the plot a little bit.
Gina (39:56)
All right,
all right, all right, and we're back.
Kathryn (39:58)
Yeah,
that's so funny. what's not funny is that there are a lot of sightings of plague victim ghosts. people have reported seeing anywhere from like really I don't know how to say this, but it's like really dense, shadowy figures. So it's not like a mist or this. It's like a human walking, but it just is a shadow.
They've also seen full-body apparitions of people that are thought to be plague victims. and the reason they're thought to be plague victims is their faces are described as having quote twisted look of agony. And they also will often see apparitions that have some of the actual physical hallmarks of someone with the plague.
I'm not gonna go into too much detail, but basically they'll have like those random bumps all over their face and neck and hands that were indicative of the plague because people would have severely swollen lymph nodes. and they also often have skin discoloration because when those bumps would get, you know, too infected or whatever, I don't know the proper term, they would often fill with blood and like pus and stuff. I'm so gross.
Gina (41:16)
Mm.
Kathryn (41:17)
Not I'm so gross. I'm so sorry because it's so gross.
they would eventually turn black and as like the tissue would die. I think it's super interesting that people are seeing apparitions like this and they're so clear that you can see that level of detail. Because it's like if you
Gina (41:35)
Mm.
Kathryn (41:36)
can see an apparition so clearly that you can see its fingers and parts of its body are like discolored, that's wild to me because I'm so used to.
you know, those experiences or stories or whatever of the quick flash and it's gone and you don't really see detail like that at all, even if it is a full body apparition. for them to experience it for so long and so clearly that you can see the actual discoloration on their fingers just blows my mind.
Gina (42:04)
Yeah. It's also for me, it strikes me as like kind of a zombie level of being afraid. You know what I mean? Like 'cause there's there's something
Kathryn (42:09)
Yeah, yeah. That's a good description, yeah.
Gina (42:12)
there there has to be something biologically hardwired into our brains where like we see signs of what we perceive as illness and so we run in the opposite direction. I think it's part of the reason why
Kathryn (42:20)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (42:20)
zombies are freaky from like just an appearance perspective. But seeing like a go I've never thought about that. A ghost
Kathryn (42:27)
Me either.
Gina (42:28)
that it displays obvious signs of like intense illness, that is terrifying.
Kathryn (42:33)
Yeah, and I also hope that it's residual, you know, because I f like how heartbreaking if that's
Gina (42:38)
Hmm. Yeah.
Kathryn (42:41)
how they are in the afterlife.
Yeah, I don't know. I there there are reports of residual hauntings. it's totally possible that the screams are residual. Like I said, it's perfectly possible that the actual apparitions are residual as well. it's just
I don't know, the the combination of the apparitions they're seeing combined with how heavy and negative the energy on the island is to begin with. I kinda wouldn't be surprised if they weren't residual, sadly. Like if they were just like stuck there because it literally was a place where people got stuck, like in life, you know.
Gina (43:25)
Yeah, and it was on the water. Did you told me once that water there's something about water and yeah. What is it again? I can't
Kathryn (43:28)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. my gosh, I didn't even think of that. my God.
Gina (43:33)
remember.
Kathryn (43:34)
Yeah, we talked about it in the Niagara on the Lake episode. It's I can't believe I didn't even make that connection. That's such a good point. So it's basically just water is a conductor of energy, and you need a conductor of energy for spirits to get energy. That's why when you're in a haunted location, things like your battery will run low or electronics start to glitch.
so when you have a lot of water, the spirits or energies have more to feed off of. So places near water are often more haunted than they would be if they were elsewhere.
Gina (44:09)
Okay, so it's like a magnifying glass almost. Kind of. Or magnet or something. Okay.
Kathryn (44:12)
Kind of, yeah, that yeah. Yeah. It's like a the bat the b
yeah. Like it's like the battery the ghosts run on. Or s or
Gina (44:19)
Okay.
Kathryn (44:19)
whatever analogy you want to use for energy. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Gina (44:21)
This place sounds really scary.
Kathryn (44:25)
What was interesting to me, just because this island has so many centuries of history associated with it and it served a very specific purpose for so long.
I found it really interesting that I didn't see any specific accounts of people claiming to see any spirits specifically from the era when it was the long-term care facility. the only story that came from that is the doctor himself. all of the full-body operations that people have described, rephrase, that I have seen.
people describe. It doesn't mean that they're not out there. I just couldn't find any. They've all been specifically plague victims. I do wonder if perhaps like the voices crying out things like that could be patients from the other era, or just that, you know, it was a case of mistaken identity and people are ascribing their idea of it being a plague quarantine location and just assuming that that is what they're seeing.
I don't know. What we do know is there are some experiences that have been documented that are thought to be residual. despite the fact that there is no electricity on the island and there hasn't been since the hospital shut down in the sixties. I don't think I mentioned that. The hospital has been closed up since the sixties. numerous people have claimed that they've seen lights turn on and off in the windows of the hospital.
So that is something that we can pretty much surmise as a residual haunting. But at the same time we still don't know for sure because it's like these things are only seen from afar. So like how do we know there's not stuff like going on in the hospital in the spirit world? You know what I mean?
Gina (46:16)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (46:16)
Yeah, we also have the classic like door slamming, sudden drops in temperature, et cetera, et cetera.
So kind of similar to what you experienced when you passed by the island, I believe that the main kind of haunting trait of the island is just its own land and surrounding water and general history. this is very much a place that feels like it has held on to that energy. And to your point, which again, I didn't even consider the fact that it is surrounded by so much water. it it just it's
Been abandoned for so long and for so much of its history. It didn't have any people on it. It just sat there with like nothing really going on. the buildings are all completely dilapidated and it's completely overrun by nature. not to mention the round the water that it is surrounded by is really murky and dark. the whole thing just reads very ominous.
To me, you know, like having never been there, it it kind of gives me like Alcatraz or Shutter Island vibes a little bit. it was interesting to Yeah, okay. I was gonna ask you. No,
Gina (47:27)
I've thinking about Shutter Island this whole time. Sorry to interrupt, but yeah.
Kathryn (47:32)
I was gonna ask you if that cause like now that I know you were there, I'm like, what was your experience with that? It's it's so interesting to me that you described seeing it as like just it just looks like a cemetery. Because I don't know if there I mean, I'm sure there's a cemetery on the island, but like
I don't know, it that's not like what it was used for, but it also is what it was used for, essentially, you know.
Gina (47:56)
Yeah. I mean maybe it was just the part of the island that we went past because I remember there was a big wall, so I couldn't see anything that was
Kathryn (48:00)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Gina (48:03)
on the island. It was just this big brick wall. And it looked like I don't know, I just got the vibe that it was hiding a cemetery or something behind it that where they wouldn't want tourists like
Kathryn (48:12)
Mm.
Gina (48:12)
ogling at it or oogling, however you say that word. but I wonder if because I do remember seeing one person on the island when we were going past it. They were like going up to go through this little walkway thing.
And at the time I was like, maybe it's just like a landscaper or something, or they're they must be tending
Kathryn (48:29)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (48:30)
to the grounds or whatever. But if it's abandoned and nature has reclaimed it, then maybe it was a ghost.
Kathryn (48:35)
Maybe
it was a ghost. I I don't know. Because I that c that kind of brings me to sort of like we're wrapping up here in present day. not only is it abandoned, but it is completely off limits from the Venetian government. like you'll get in big, big trouble if you go there without permission. That is not to say that no one has ever been there. there there are
Certain exceptions. like paranormal investigation crews have been allowed on the island with supervision. pe there are people who like stop in for various reasons, one way or another. the official documented reason that it has been off limits is because it's simply incredibly unsafe. The structures are in such a state of disrepair that.
It's possible that any of the buildings would collapse at any second. and you'll get seriously hurt. But to your point, a lot of people are like, mm, I don't buy that. What are you hiding? I didn't realize there was this like big wall structure on the island. I'll like share pictures of it for people who haven't seen it or whatever. but a lot of people kind of have that vibe of like.
It's essentially the government is admitting that it's a strange place and something weird is happening there by not letting people on. But then on the other side of it, people are allowed in. You just have to be like supervised and you're not allowed to like go certain places and stuff like that. with that being said, to unfortunately debunked the potential ghost theory, which I still think that maybe you saw a ghost.
The island did go up for auction in 2014 and there was a bit of like a bidding war slash legal battle situation for several years. not gonna go into details and all that because everything I could find was in Italian and I don't really understand what the issue was, but eventually Yeah. La vita bella. Okay.
Essentially, long story short, last summer a like regional organization that I believe translates to Save Paveglia won the bid for the island, or at least part of the island, and was granted six years to implement this like urban park project. They're essentially turning into like a national park situation.
But that's on the northern half of the island. So the way the island is shaped, there's a little, guess you could I don't know what you call it. Like it's like it looks like a little river on the map, but it's just part of the lagoon that runs through the middle of the island, and there's a bridge connecting them. So it's it's all one island with two parts essentially. so they were granted permission to build up the northern half, but the southern part where all of the structures are.
Is still completely off limits. and like that doesn't necessarily prove or disprove anyone's conspiracy theories because it still could just be that, you know, we want to preserve these buildings as much as we can. We don't want anyone touching them. It is dangerous to like be in them, and they don't want to like tear them down or rebuild or anything like that. Other people are still saying.
it's still off limits because weird shit's happening there. So it like kind of doesn't narrow anything down at all. with that being said, I would say I I I don't think the government is doing anything too shady, if at all. which is weird. I know. Are you proud of me? It's only because
Gina (52:24)
Kathryn That's not like you at all.
Kathryn (52:26)
it's only because people have snuck on the island and have lived to tell the tale. So
Unless there's a mind wiping
Gina (52:33)
Okay.
Kathryn (52:33)
situation going on.
Gina (52:35)
Listen, men in black do need a training ground. Could they be in Italy?
Kathryn (52:38)
That's so true.
Gina (52:39)
Venice is a nice place to be.
Kathryn (52:41)
With Mothman. Yeah.
Gina (52:43)
With Mothman.
Kathryn (52:45)
But yeah, there's I'm I'm not gonna read through any of them now, but there there are several like Reddit stories and just internet stories of people hopping onto the island. Word on the street is there's lots of fishermen that you can convince for a certain dollar amount to take you to Pophelia. Not that I'm encouraging anyone going, but should you choose
To do that of your own accord. That is a thing that happens. but besides that, most of the
what's the word I'm looking for? Experiences people witness or ghosts that people see come from either like, you know, the official paranormal investigations that have gotten permission to go on the island or people like you on passing like on boats passing by will see weird things like on their way to their destination. all of this is to say Paveglia's reputation as being like one of the most haunted islands
is warranted. it just seems so dark and heavy and it's like if you look up the most haunted island or most haunted places in Italy, it's like no question asked. It just has a really dark history that people just have latched onto and are really curious about. And I definitely think the mystery the island has a lot to do with that. But I will say lucky for us, it's possible after the next six years
might be able to go and see for yourself. which really pans out because I really wanted to go to Italy this year for our big trip and I'm kinda happy we're not going now because now we'll just wait until they let people on. And then we just like scurry over
to the southern
Gina (54:25)
Ha ha ha.
Kathryn (54:26)
part and see what's going on.
Gina (54:28)
Well, I will say, when you're here for our wedding in a couple of years, there's an airport right by us with direct flights to Venice. Really cheap too, like forty pounds.
Kathryn (54:36)
Girl, don't say that shit to me. Did I tell you? This is so such an aside, but we just had this. I don't think I did tell you because we just had this discussion at dinner the other night. I think we're gonna hop up to Edinburgh for a second while we're over there. Yeah. Yeah.
Gina (54:47)
Really? my gosh, totally do it. Yes, please.
Kathryn (54:51)
Yeah, I think we might do that.
Gina (54:53)
you totally should and take so many pictures. I'm so jealous.
Kathryn (54:56)
Yeah. Wait, I thought you went. Am I crazy?
Gina (54:58)
No, I went to York, not Edinburgh.
Kathryn (55:01)
you went to Edinburgh. Well, whatever. It's not like you have anything going on. Just come. Just come with.
Gina (55:05)
I know. I well,
I do have a little honeymoon or whatever that I have to go on, but you can come with if you want. I don't think you wanna come with on our honeymoon.
Kathryn (55:10)
No.
that's so funny because remember, like when we were first when we first were trying to decide what to do for a honeymoon, you Tom and I were wait, I just remembered something that I never
Gina (55:25)
Mm.
Kathryn (55:25)
told you. I like completely forgot about this. This is such an aside.
Gina (55:29)
Mm.
Kathryn (55:30)
Do you remember way back forever ago, I got that psychic reading.
that I talked about on the podcast and one of the things she said just out of the blue was you need to go to Japan. Do you remember that? I l That's so funny.
Gina (55:41)
Yeah. I was thinking about that psychic reading literally in the shower this morning. Yeah.
Kathryn (55:46)
The reason I remembered that, I literally had completely forgotten about that. The reason I remembered that is because we are going to Japan and I keep all of my ideas in my notes app. So I searched Japan to like find all my vacation ideas. And I was like, what the fuck is this? I opened it up. I was like, my gosh, she literally told us we should go and then we're going. I had completely forgotten about it. Anyway,
why am I talking about this?
Gina (56:10)
No.
Kathryn (56:10)
yeah, while while we were talking, because you and I had talked about how fun it would be to go to Japan.
together after that reading. And like when Phil and I first started planning this trip, we like for a second were like, we should ask Gina and Tom to come. And then we were like, wait, this is supposed to be a belated honeymoon. We shouldn't ask them to come.
Gina (56:32)
I did well when you said you guys were thinking about going to Edinburgh 'cause Scotland is on our maybe list for honeymooning, there was a part of my brain that went, that'd be so much fun. We could all four of us go on a honeymoon
Kathryn (56:39)
is it? Okay. Just do it. Yeah.
Yeah, because like at this point, Japan is like an anniversary trip, not a honeymoon. So that can be our actual honeymoon.
Gina (56:52)
Four-way honeymoon
Kathryn (56:55)
Dude, you know what I think about all the time? I feel like our lives would be so perfect if Phil and Tom just like realized they were in love with each other because then we could be like Grace and Frankie.
Gina (57:05)
my god, Kathryn, I've never thought about that before. I would love that so much.
Kathryn (57:07)
Wouldn't that be so much fun? I was just thinking of it the other day.
Gina (57:10)
Imagine their wedding. Imagine how scary their wedding would be. Imagine how dark and bloody their wedding would be.
Kathryn (57:16)
This has to happen after your wedding with Tom 'cause then we can have three weddings.
Gina (57:21)
Yeah
Kathryn (57:23)
Ugh, that's a dream. Anyway. I was gonna say. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Or you could go anywhere else in the world. I don't know how we covered that. We'll talk about. yeah.
Gina (57:25)
Don't know how we got here from because you could you could go to Venice while you're here for our wedding. Yes. Yes. This sounds terrifying as hell though. my goodness gracious.
Kathryn (57:39)
So I'm so curious about this place. I'm so s I'm I'm sad that I didn't loop you in to this beforehand. I completely forgot that you guys went to Venice.
But yeah, I that's Paveglia Island. It's very spooky and very dark, but also like
Oddly not like like it is, but it's just all of the stories that have come from it, they're so mysterious and there is no proof of anything. We just know it's dark because how could it not be? yeah, I'm just I'm dying to get on that island if I'm being honest with you. Like I really, I really want to see what's happening over there.
Gina (58:12)
How much would I have to pay you to camp there overnight?
Kathryn (58:15)
Where? Like in a tent or in
Gina (58:17)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (58:20)
Is there a boat that is accessible to me?
Gina (58:24)
Mm no, not until morning.
Kathryn (58:26)
No, no amount of money. I would not. I would not do
Gina (58:28)
Fair. Okay, that's fair.
Kathryn (58:29)
I wouldn't I wouldn't do that on a not haunted island. Mm-mm. I don't like that. I don't like that vibe. If it if
Gina (58:33)
Yeah, yeah, fair. Okay. No widows bay for you.
Kathryn (58:38)
if it's like no, if it's not close enough to like swim, even that I wouldn't wanna do. But like in in a pinch, if I can't swim to safety, that's that's a no for me, dog.
Gina (58:51)
Yeah, yep, that's fair. I'll do it for twenty dollars. I'm just kidding, I'm not gonna do it. I don't I d I don't wanna do it.
Kathryn (58:57)
You're like I'm planning, I'm spending thousands of dollars to go do that as we speak.
But no, I I would go I would definitely go for like the day and I would go, depending on what they do with this in the next six years, if there's a place to stay on the island with doors and lockable windows, I would do that. But it's like I don't know. I mean, I would certainly be scared. because it's
Like the ghosts that would scare me. Not that they're bad or mean, but just like that sounds real sad and horrific. I don't know.
Gina (59:29)
I do think turning
a corner and then suddenly seeing a victim of the bubonic plague would really jump scare me, you know? That would be quite quite freaky.
Kathryn (59:36)
Yeah.
Gina (59:37)
Yeah. Goodness.
Kathryn (59:38)
Yeah. Anyway,
do you have something for me? I don't know what you have, so I don't wanna ask if you're gonna lighten the mood in case you're not.
Gina (59:47)
kind of am. It is
Kathryn (59:48)
Okay.
Gina (59:49)
related to hospital ghosts.
It is a story that I got from Reddit, and it's called Someone Came Home From the Hospital with Us.
Kathryn (1:00:00)
no.
Gina (1:00:01)
It's from user Private Poultry, very secretive chicken. And it's from the Paranormal
Kathryn (1:00:04)
Okay.
Gina (1:00:06)
Subreddit, so I think it is a true story. They didn't say it was fiction, so I'm taking this as 100% certain and fact.
Kathryn (1:00:13)
Yeah, that's
yeah, that separates isn't supposed to be fiction, so it's
Gina (1:00:17)
mm
Kathryn (1:00:18)
definitely should be definitely true.
Gina (1:00:20)
I will tell you the story and then we can decide.
Kathryn (1:00:22)
Okay.
Gina (1:00:23)
Okay. This occurred over 20 years ago, but is still fresh in my mind. My son was born early at 32 weeks. We were lucky and he had a few issues, but we were able to bring him home a month after he was born. He came home on oxygen and caffeine due to brac bradycardia. Bradycardia? One of those. Something like that. I don't know what that means. I didn't know you were allowed to give babies caffeine.
Kathryn (1:00:43)
I did not know that was a thing. A caffeine.
Gina (1:00:47)
Yeah, I don't know.
Well
Kathryn (1:00:48)
Well, you're not unless it's yeah, if it's like like you're
just for anyone out there who's like not paying attention to life, you shouldn't. But
Gina (1:00:59)
Give that sucker coffee?
Kathryn (1:01:02)
but but yes, I I had like the same reaction. I was like, wait, like I have heard of that before, but not but it feels fake. It feels like a fake thing. But it's not, I guess.
Gina (1:01:11)
Yeah, I don't
in this story it's true, which we've already established is a hundred percent fact. So
Kathryn (1:01:15)
Who knows? Yeah.
Gina (1:01:19)
Once we were home, strange things began to happen. The cat refused to go in his room, and before he was born, I was forever removing said cat from his room. Our dog would sit at the bottom of the stairs and tilt his head as if he was listening to something. I would be changing his diaper and start talking as I thought his dad just came in the room.
only to turn and find out I was alone. A friend
Kathryn (1:01:44)
Ooh.
Gina (1:01:44)
gave him a peekaboo big bird toy that would say peekaboo when you covered and then uncovered its eyes, and this toy would go off all the time, even after I put it into a box in the closet.
Kathryn (1:01:57)
No way. Fuck that.
Gina (1:01:59)
Hmm I often felt
and Big Bird too, what a betrayal.
Kathryn (1:02:03)
I know. I love Big Bird. He was my favorite when I was little.
Gina (1:02:07)
I like Oscar the Grouch. I liked that he lived in a trash can. Yeah, f made me laugh.
Kathryn (1:02:09)
Of course you did. Yeah.
Gina (1:02:12)
Yeah. also the count. Ha ha ha.
Kathryn (1:02:14)
I was gonna say count as classic, yeah.
Gina (1:02:16)
Yeah,
agreed. I often felt I was not alone in that house. My parents had given us an angel care baby monitor as a gift. This had a pad that was placed under the mattress and an alarm that would sound if it did not detect any movement after a certain amount of time. As our son was tiny, only five pounds when he came home, this alarm would often go off. I would wake up, walk into his room, turn it off and check on him. He was always fine, and I never felt that it was anything but
The fact that he was just so tiny that the pad didn't pick up on his breathing. During this time, I would often dream of a woman I would find in his room. I never saw her directly, but would dream I saw the shadow of a woman with long hair standing and reaching into his crib. The dreams never scared me, but I did find them very odd, but comforting at the same time. I can't remember how long he had been home, but it was at least a month.
He was still on oxygen and still on caffeine. Our bed was to the left of our bedroom door, and I slept on the right hand side next to the door, and my husband slept on the left hand side. I was asleep and was woken up by being shaken roughly on the door side of the bed. I woke up and looked over at my husband and said, Why are you shaking me? Only to realize he was completely asleep, and on the wrong side to have shaken me.
I immediately jumped up and ran to my son's room. I flipped the light on, something I had never done up to this point, and heard a gasp from the crib. Often when babies spontaneously stop breathing, you just need to startle them to begin again. I truly believe that he had stopped breathing, and my turning on the light startled him into breathing again. After this episode, the dreams and strange occurrences with the pets and the toy continued.
Until my son came off the oxygen and caffeine. Once that happened, the odd occurrences stopped. The pets stopped acting weird, and the big bird toy never went off on its own again. I believe that someone came home with him to keep him safe. The feeling I got from my dreams was that it was a young woman, maybe early to mid-twenties and indigenous, and then in parentheses, I'm Canadian.
Kathryn (1:04:32)
Mm.
Gina (1:04:33)
I will always be grateful for them watching over him and shaking me awake that night so I could startle my son into breathing again.
Kathryn (1:04:40)
my god.
Gina (1:04:41)
Right?
Kathryn (1:04:43)
That gave me chills. Wow.
Gina (1:04:45)
Yeah.
Up until this
Kathryn (1:04:46)
So scary.
Gina (1:04:47)
point, I had not really thought about like helpful hospital ghosts, like continuing to provide
Kathryn (1:04:52)
Yeah.
Gina (1:04:53)
treatment and care even in the afterlife. I thought this is a pretty beautiful story.
Kathryn (1:04:58)
Wonder
like who it was. Like w to your point, like was it someone that worked there or are there just spirits hanging around the hospital, like keeping track of who might need them? Like just people, yeah.
Gina (1:05:08)
Forces. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Or even like some guardian angel type something or other. Yeah.
Kathryn (1:05:14)
Yeah. Cause
that was what I was wondering, like, did this person come from the hospital or was is this someone who's always with them? Like, you
Gina (1:05:22)
Mm, mm.
Kathryn (1:05:23)
know, like is this a baby's guardian or her guardian or like 'cause weird stuff happens after babies come anyway. It could have been like a grandmother or family friend or something like that,
Gina (1:05:34)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (1:05:35)
you know?
Gina (1:05:36)
Totally, yeah. But I thought it was nice. Cause when I started
Kathryn (1:05:38)
That's so scary.
Gina (1:05:39)
reading this story, I was very scared. I thought this was gonna turn into a incidents around the house type thing. And then by the end of it, I was like, this is pretty nice. Yeah.
Kathryn (1:05:43)
Yeah. No, I love this.
literally the scariest thing in this story is the fact that babies just fucking stop breathing sometime. That sucks.
Gina (1:05:54)
yeah.
I thought you were gonna say that you can give babies caffeine, which again you shouldn't do unless doctor's orders. But yeah, yeah, that is terrifying.
Kathryn (1:05:59)
Again, don't do it until the doctor says. Anyway.
Anyway.
Gina (1:06:05)
if you have a story you would like to hear at the end of an episode, scary or not scary, up to you.
You can send it to iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com. If you don't want to wait until next week to hear the next episode, just a reminder, you can hear it right now if you go on over and join us on Patreon. Link is in the show notes. Big ol' shout out to Clobear Money Coach for sponsoring today's episode. We appreciate you so very much.
And until next time, little spoons, keep it cool.
Kathryn (1:06:31)
And keep it creepy.
