100: Peoria State Hospital
Gina (00:10)
Welcome to I Scream You Scream, your weekly scoop of the most chilling histories, mysteries, and paranormal perplexities. My name's Gina.
Kathryn (00:18)
And I'm Kathryn.
Gina (00:20)
And if you didn't know, you can now get episodes one whole week early and without any ads whatsoever when you join our new Patreon tier. It's very cool. You would love it. You should totally do it. Link is in the show notes.
Kathryn (00:28)
Yay.
Gina (00:32)
This month we have been telling each other's stories about hospitals while we have vanilla ice cream. So grab a spoon and let's dig in.
Happy hundredth episode. my god. Holy shit.
Kathryn (00:43)
Happy hundred episode! I can't believe you
I can't believe you made through that intro with a straight face. I'm like
Gina (00:50)
I the entire time in my brain like a kid
who's had too much candy.
Kathryn (00:55)
Also,
Halloween, right? Is this Halloween
week?
Gina (00:58)
Yeah, it is, isn't it?
Kathryn (01:00)
Do the first yeah, Halloween week. Halloween is a Saturday, hundredth episode, Halloween week.
Gina (01:04)
Damn. And also,
it's the month of our podcast birthday. Cause we
Kathryn (01:10)
Yes,
Gina (01:11)
first episode was October 1st, 2024. So we're two years old. And also at the time of recording,
Kathryn (01:15)
Two years old.
Gina (01:17)
it's just a few days before your birthday.
Kathryn (01:20)
Sure is.
Gina (01:21)
What a week Hooray
Kathryn (01:21)
Happy birthday to me. What a week, what a month,
what a life, what a time to be alive.
Gina (01:26)
What an era What an era Kathryn!
Kathryn (01:28)
Yeah.
Gina (01:30)
should we talk about what we're doing next month?
Kathryn (01:32)
yeah, you w I never remember if we do it at the beginning or the end. Wait no, we have to rate our ice cream first. Let's rate our ice cream first and then we'll
Gina (01:36)
Me neither. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right, you're right, you're right.
Cool. Do you have a rating for yours?
Kathryn (01:41)
Five. love this ice
Gina (01:42)
Mm.
Kathryn (01:43)
cream. It's so good. As a reminder, I'm eating the honey vanilla from
Blue Bell. and I got an email from my dad. Remember when we were crashing out about what ice cream we ate when we were little? It
Gina (01:57)
Mm.
Kathryn (01:58)
was blue bunny.
Gina (02:01)
can I Google a picture of what those cartons looked like real quick? I think so.
Kathryn (02:03)
Do you remember that? Yeah, it's like the buckets
of ice cream. Probably the same thing that all of us ate when we were little. Did you? Yeah. So thanks for letting
Gina (02:10)
my gosh, yeah, yeah, I remember that. The ears.
Kathryn (02:14)
me know. Yeah. So yeah, this is the blue bell honey vanilla. So
good.
Gina (02:21)
Gorgeous.
Someday we should look back at episodes and figure out what all of the fives were and then have like a March Madness style brackets tournament of
the fives.
Kathryn (02:31)
We should we should have been documenting this as we go. iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com If you have been keeping track,
Gina (02:41)
Ha ha ha.
Kathryn (02:42)
Cause I
Gina (02:42)
Yeah.
Kathryn (02:43)
it's we haven't had a lot of fives.
feel like I'm always scared to say five because then what happens if
The next one I like better was a six. how's that work mathematically?
Gina (02:54)
think it's okay w I don't know. I have complex feelings about the rating system. It's difficult. Yeah, I have
Kathryn (02:58)
You've given me this pep talk. Yeah. You've given this to me before.
We're like, we've tried not
Gina (03:04)
Yeah.
Kathryn (03:04)
to compare month to month, but it's hard.
Gina (03:07)
It is hard when what we're
Kathryn (03:07)
Yeah.
Gina (03:08)
inherently doing is comparing month to month.
Kathryn (03:11)
Which it's so
funny because I'm not someone that li I don't like rating things. I don't like I feel weird
Gina (03:18)
Mm.
Kathryn (03:18)
when I've read a book and I'm trying to log it I don't know, how do you give something stars? It's hard. Who am
Gina (03:26)
Yeah.
Kathryn (03:26)
I? Who am I to judge?
Gina (03:28)
I like asking people to rate things more than I like rating them.
Kathryn (03:31)
Me too. Why did we start a podcast where we write ice cream every month? I hate this. Why did we do this to ourselves? what was yours? What's your rating?
Gina (03:41)
Hmm.
So I'm going to give this a two. Here is my rationale.
Kathryn (03:46)
No.
Gina (03:47)
It would have been smack dab middle of the road three, bang average, because that's what vanilla ice cream is to me. However, I did
Kathryn (03:54)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (03:54)
have that one unfortunate week where I had the pear and vanilla ice cream that I hated
Kathryn (03:58)
Yeah.
Gina (03:59)
so much. And after we finished recording that episode, because my issue with it was the texture. I hated the texture of it. And after we finished recording that episode, I went
Kathryn (04:04)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (04:07)
downstairs and I was chatting with Tom.
And he was like, how is the pear ice cream? And I was like, I really didn't like it. The texture wasn't for me. And Tom goes, Yeah, I was wondering about that, because you don't like the texture of pears. And I was like, yeah, you're right, I don't. So
Kathryn (04:22)
yeah, I didn't even think of that.
Gina (04:24)
it might have just been a me, me thing and not a universally
Kathryn (04:27)
Yeah.
Gina (04:27)
recognized truth that that one ice cream is not good.
Kathryn (04:31)
You know, as opinions famously are.
Gina (04:34)
Well, I'm always right. So it gets tricky sometimes.
But
Kathryn (04:36)
Yeah.
Gina (04:40)
I'm not I'm not mad about this month. I think it was, you know, it was good. I do like vanilla ice cream. I just I'm ready for the next month because it's gonna be very different.
Kathryn (04:49)
Yeah.
Yeah, I've I was fully anticipating mine being a two because I don't love vanilla ice cream. I love vanilla ice cream as a base I want vanilla with cookies in it or you know, whatever.
like just a dish of vanilla ice cream, I'm always like, really? Couldn't think of anything more interesting than that. but the I mean, honey vanilla, that's more interesting. God, that was good.
Gina (05:12)
I'm so I really wanna try that someday. I'm glad you got to experience that. Shout out Jen.
Kathryn (05:13)
Yeah. Yeah, it's good. Me too.
Yeah, thank you so much, Jen. Gosh, Jen. Five for Jen. This this month I'm dedicating dedicating
Gina (05:20)
Five for Jen. Yeah.
Kathryn (05:23)
this month, Jen. Thank you so much. That was delectable.
Gina (05:26)
I cannot wait for what we're talking about next month. We've my god, I'm so
Kathryn (05:30)
Me too, I'm so excited.
Gina (05:32)
excited. We've been talking about doing this as a month,
since we started this podcast. We're talking about
Kathryn (05:36)
Day one.
Gina (05:38)
circuses. Yay! It's gonna be so creepy. And to
Kathryn (05:39)
Yay Tit Yeah
Gina (05:46)
accompany, we're going to have Italian ice slash slushies. And I did look it up.
And there is a difference between the two of them. Italian
Kathryn (05:54)
Yes.
Gina (05:55)
ice is a solid, and slushies are a little bit melted. So we will transition as the episode goes on from Italian ice to slushy.
Kathryn (06:04)
Perfect.
Gina (06:05)
Yeah.
Kathryn (06:06)
I'm so I'm so excited for this. I and I don't think we mentioned, maybe we did and I just don't remember, but to celebrate each of our birthday months, I chose what we were talking about in October and Gina got to pick November. Do you remember this? I forgot about it too until right now, which is why I don't think we mentioned it.
Gina (06:20)
I forgot about that. my god. Wow.
Kathryn (06:26)
very excited. And so one of the topics for next month, we haven't done a poll in a while just because we've we've done a lot of topics that we've been very excited about and had things for. but one of Gina's topics
is voted on by our Patreon members. So if you want a chance at voting in the future, go and join us on Patreon so that you can do that for next month.
Gina (06:47)
Yes.
And thank you to all of our members for helping me decide because you girl was so very indecisive and you've made my job so much
Kathryn (06:52)
Yeah.
Gina (06:53)
easier.
but speaking of things that we have wanted to do forever, I have been waiting for literally years, multiple years now, for you to tell the story you're about to tell on this podcast. I cannot wait. Please, Kathryn, take it away. For the love of God.
Kathryn (07:05)
Yay. No pressure
whatsoever. This is a make or break. This is like my big break. My name is up in lights. This is my moment.
Gina (07:16)
This is like when Lizzie McGuire went on the stage during that movie. I can't remember what Hey nah. Yeah.
Kathryn (07:21)
Hey now, hey now
it's funny. Okay. Anyway, this is a serious episode. Which actually no, I will say, I would argue last week was maybe not feel good, but it had a happy ending, I would say.
and I was very pleased to tell Gina that this episode is gonna have some good vibes as well. We I do have a content warning.
I'll tell you what it is later because I did it at the end of the episode. So it's not written at the top on my notes, but it's only one little bit of sadness. And then the rest is really exciting. Okay. So today we're talking about the Peoria State Hospital or the Bartonville Asylum, as it was colloquially known when I was growing up. This is a local hometown haunt, literally. This place has a very special place in my heart.
Almost at house! What the hell? Very special place. I
Gina (08:16)
Special place in my house.
Kathryn (08:18)
keep the asylum in my office. it was it it was the place that kids would go to hang out, like in the middle of the night. You'd sneak out, smoke weed, get drunk, and the bravest slash stupidest of us all would break into the asylum.
Gina (08:36)
Yeah.
Kathryn (08:36)
I loved going there, like so much. I went there often.
It feels weird to say now, but it'll make sense later. It always kind of felt like one of my kind of safe spots, you know, it was like the place where I went and just
Gina (08:49)
Mm.
Kathryn (08:50)
felt good. I loved going there. Basically, sorry, mom and dad who are listening, but if I was ever spending the night at a friend's house in high school,
one third of the time we were sneaking out to go meet boys, one third of the time we snuck out to go get drunk in a cornfield, and one third
Gina (09:07)
Hm.
Kathryn (09:08)
of the time
We snuck out to drive out to the Bartonville Asylum. So, like,
Gina (09:14)
Holy Trinity.
Kathryn (09:15)
yes, this is my high school experience. Same
Gina (09:18)
Love it.
Kathryn (09:18)
school kids. Okay. we would go there particularly for the ghosts. Like I said, there was drinking and other illegal things, which I never partook in ever. I was there for the seances.
Gina (09:30)
Ha ha ha
Kathryn (09:34)
This part's all for my parents. Moving on. Okay. So I never went inside the building. sadly, I do regret to say it is not because I respected the grounds or building like I do now. I wish I could say it was. It truly was because I was very scared of both getting in trouble for breaking in, but also I was afraid of the ghosts that were said to haunt the halls of the looming Bowen building.
This is just one building that was on the grounds, but it was the largest. And in my opinion, in the opinion of many others, the most beautiful building of them all. and it was the building that people were referring to when they mentioned the Bartonville Asylum, even though there were a lot of different buildings on the property. A lot of community members absolutely hated it. they thought it was an eyesore. It was
reasonably argued that it was just a place for meddling kids to show up and cause a ruckus. But I loved it. I wanted to be there all the time. It wasn't until my senior year in college that I ever actually stepped foot inside the Bowen.
And I did so for an article that I was writing. at the time I wrote for a regional magazine, which is not even close to as fancy or cool as it sounds. it was essentially like a quarterly newsletter written by journalism
students, and the surrounding farm towns got to read our work, which was more than the student body. So it was very impressive at the time. So
I needed to come up with an article and I had gotten wind that there was this organization called Save the Bowen that was trying to raise money for repairs and renovations so that the Bowen building could be safe and open to the public for like ghosts and historical tours in hopes of saving it from being torn down as a lot of the community members wanted. They wanted the building to just be gone, but there were other people who wanted to save it. I was one of them. I did not want the
building to be torn down. So I decided to write an article on the asylum and like the history of the asylum and ways people could help and blah blah blah. So I took a tour with two of my friends so that we could get like the history of the building so I could get started on my writicle. My writicle? What the hell is that?
Gina (11:59)
Ha ha ha
Kathryn (12:01)
God, we're not even drinking in this episode.
Gina (12:04)
I was going to suggest having a drink too.
Kathryn (12:07)
I know me too, we should have.
Wait, do you wanna do you wanna pause and grab a drink? Yeah.
Gina (12:09)
Do you wanna grab a drink? No, let's grab a drink, yeah.
Kathryn (12:12)
RB.
Gina (12:12)
Yeah,
okay. Bear back.
And we're back.
What'd you get?
Kathryn (12:16)
Just a glass of wine. My parents got me some wine for my birthday. So cracked
Gina (12:20)
nice.
Kathryn (12:21)
into that. What do you have?
Gina (12:23)
Negroni.
Kathryn (12:24)
yay, I was kinda hoping that you were gonna have that again. All right, cheers.
Gina (12:27)
Cheers. Happy birthday and happy birthday and happy
Kathryn (12:30)
Thank you.
Gina (12:30)
hundredth episode.
Kathryn (12:31)
Okay.
Mm. Yum yum yum.
Gina (12:33)
Whew.
Okay.
Kathryn (12:36)
Okay, so
Two thousand thirteen and I was hot on the case.
Gina (12:45)
One sip and we're in.
We're locked the fuck in.
That's beautiful.
Kathryn (12:53)
Anyway, there were all these great stories on this tour. She's walking us through this building. It's stunning. It's so I'm just like living my best life walking through this hospital. I don't remember all of the stories. Obviously, this was a million years ago. one I do remember was a crew member one day was working in the basement.
He was working with some wooden beams or something. And he kept hearing someone call his name, but no one was anywhere around. And when he asked around later, no one admitted to calling out for him. Another one I remember was the fact that people would often lose things while they were there working on the site,
only for their stuff to show up in rooms later that no one had even been in. and there were just a bunch of little things like that, kind of classic weird experiences while working on an old building. Cause a lot of times when you do work like this or renovations or whatever, spirits can get stirred up and disrupted, and there's a lot of activity. So she was just talking to us about stuff like that.
And I had my recorder on most of the time so that I could recount her stories in my what I call it? My writer later. My writical.
Gina (14:07)
You're right ago.
Kathryn (14:09)
So that night I'm feeling good. Living the dream. I
I had to transcribe the recording. This was long before the days of transcription software. so I poured myself a glass of my favorite $3 bottle of Moscato, and I settled in to transcribe my recording so I could get writing. And that's when I heard it. In between the sounds of the tour guide and my friends and I laughing, there was a crystal clear voice on this recording that did not belong to any of us.
The words were so crisp and clear. I genuinely was like, who was that? Like I paused and was like counting in my head whose voices I could hear on the recording. And it was just the tour guide, my two friends, and me. And we were all accounted for. And then all of a sudden there was this other voice. I was like, what the fuck is that? I absolutely froze. I was alone in my studio apartment. And I was so startled. I literally went back and listened to it dozens of times. And
Eventually I realized that I captured what I would consider a pristine EVP on my recording of this ghost tour.
I've never been a skeptic. I would never claim to be a skeptic ever.
But I was like health, I had a healthy dose of skepticism because I had never had like a definitive experience that you could consider proof. And this was it. Like after this, I was like, yeah, donezo, 100% believing in ghosts. People were like, I don't know how to
explain this. This is wild. And like people who are 100% skeptics to this day were like, I literally can't explain that. but
I'm an asshole, so I'm gonna make you
Gina (15:45)
Yeah.
Kathryn (15:45)
all wait until the end of the episode to hear this recording. And I'll play it and I I wanna know what you all hear before we discuss. Do you remember what it says? I've played it for you before. It's Yeah, okay. Mm-hmm.
Gina (15:58)
I think I remember the notion of it, but it's been years since I heard
it, so no, not really. Not confidently for sure.
Kathryn (16:05)
Yeah, this
me playing this for Gina was an early friendship test. I remember that vividly. Because I don't share it with just anyone. Yeah.
Gina (16:11)
Yeah. 'Cause this
is I was telling Tom about this earlier how excited I was for this recording because this is how
Kathryn (16:16)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (16:17)
we bonded about the paranormal. it was fundamental.
Kathryn (16:19)
Ultimately this
is this is how this podcast got started. Yeah.
Gina (16:23)
When you go really far back this is the grandfather's story behind it all. The grandmother's story, yeah.
Kathryn (16:29)
Yes. but yeah, before I share it with everyone, I do wanna talk about the history of the hospital.
the hospital first opened in nineteen two under the name the Illinois Asylum for the Incurable Insane. it operated until the mid
late nineteen seventies. I don't remember the exact year, but it was the nineteen seventies when it closed down. It was a state run hospital.
And its purpose was to operate as a long term care facility, just like I mentioned in the Poveglia Island episode. So basically you would get diagnosed with whatever you had elsewhere, whether it affected you physically or mentally. And if it was determined that you were unable to care for yourself indefinitely, you would be sent here.
The project was approved for funding in 1895 and construction started right away.
The first building was completed in 1897, same year that Elizabeth Packard died. More on her later. Yeah, I know. I'm telling you, this is such a good episode. Yeah.
Gina (17:32)
Okay, damn, all right. Great.
Kathryn (17:36)
right from the beginning, there were foundational issues with the building. Two years to go from funding approval to a full ginormous building is very quick. And I only found one source for this. but it was a credible source, I will say. But there are rumors that the mob was responsible for initial construction. So, like,
Gina (18:00)
Great.
Kathryn (18:02)
yeah, right, just kind of off to a
unusual and rocky start. But the initial issues were not a concern for the likes of the Peoria Women's League, who was the organization responsible for creating the hospital in the first place. backing up a little bit, don't know if you've heard, but in the mid to late 1800s, word started to spread that people in insane asylums
Gina (18:27)
Ha ha ha.
Kathryn (18:29)
Particularly women weren't always treated that well. Particularly in the hospital in Jacksonville, Illinois, where a little woman named Elizabeth Packard was institutionalized.
Gina (18:36)
Hm.
Kathryn (18:41)
So members of the Peoria Women's League heard about what was going on, obviously, as everyone did,
It was the state's main hospital at the time where people in the area would get sent. So they were like, my God, if it's bad here, how bad is it everywhere else that isn't a main source of care for people? So they start traveling around to the smaller hospitals and clinics and homes where people with psychiatric issues were being held.
And they were absolutely appalled at the treatment that these people were getting, or more appropriately, I should say, not getting. So collectively, as a group, they were like, fuck this, these people deserve better. If there's nowhere to send them where they can get better, let's build it. And this is all based on everything that Elizabeth Packard had done.
the Women's League petitioned to the government for funding to get the hospital built, and there really wasn't any pushback from the state government at all. The funds were already there and available, and Illinois was in the middle of the mental health reform, like I said, as a result of the Elizabeth Packard case. Really, the only issue that they faced in
getting this going at all was the fact that they were just a bunch of women trying to get a meeting with the governor. Like, like that was really it. It took them a long time to like actually get in the office because they were like, what are a bunch of homemakers doing trying to talk to like politicians? but once they finally got a meeting with them, which really didn't take that long because they were so pushy.
that it was like that, that everything got approved and like moved forward really quickly. they get the meeting, they get the funding, someone calls the mob, things get going, so on and so forth. big Tony! We got
Gina (20:34)
Big tone. We're trying to take care of the mentally ill.
Kathryn (20:37)
s we got work for you in Botonville. when they realized things weren't going totally to plan,
They decided they needed a head physician who could run things because it was really important to them that they didn't want the government to be too involved, too like hands-on in the situation, because they wanted someone with actual medical
knowledge to have the greater say in the treatment that these people got. Absolutely groundbreaking to think that we should have a doctor.
Recommending medical treatment instead of a politician. Hysterical, if you ask me. But that's what they wanted, and that's what they got. Enter Dr. Zeller.
George Anthony Zeller was born in 1858 in Spring Bay, Illinois. It's a very small town, right on the Peoria River. Current population is about 500 people.
The whole town is about 20 square blocks.
not the type of place you would expect to find a world-class progressive physician with groundbreaking treatment plans.
I couldn't find much about his childhood. What I do know is that he was a military man. He ran all of his medical operations as tightly as you would expect a military man to do. And he had a wife named Sophie, whom he absolutely adored. He he thought Sophie was the brightest, most beautiful, and astounding woman he had ever met. He was just so impressed with her. He she to him was pretty.
Proof that like women were the gold standard of the human race. Like literally. He just he had her on a pedestal, their whole relationship. And reasonably so. I mean, she was a great woman. He just absolutely adored her.
He
Really hated how little opportunity women had at this time because She was one of the most capable women that he knew and he knew in general that all women were capable. and a lot of his personal role models as a physician and mental health advocate were women, particularly Elizabeth Packard. He named her directly, along with a short list of other.
professionals and people in this era. and he referred to her in his autobiography as a quote, once in a generation kind of inspiration. So he really
loved her teachings and followed them through and through. She inspired what kind of physician he wanted to be and would ultimately become. So when the women's league was looking for
a superintendent for their new hospital, they couldn't think of anyone better than Dr. Zeller. His first order of business when he started working at the I'm gonna call it this an asylum because that's what it was called then. When he was working at the asylum was to change the name. Remember, it was the Illinois Asylum for the Incurable and Sane. but he did not believe that any patient was
quote incurable. He truly believed that any patient with the right care and treatment had a chance to progress. So that's when it was changed to the Peoria State Hospital. He also went through the hospital floor by floor and insisted that all of the bars be removed from the windows because this was a hospital, not a prison. And he replaced all of the hard metal chains in the hospitals that were used for restraints with
padded restraints. They weren't like the hard metal handcuffs that had been in there. They were like the soft padded, like kind of tying ones. But he made it a very strict rule that they were only to be used when absolutely necessary. He didn't believe that restraint or isolation should ever be used in any type of treatment. but he understood the value of having it when
Things like safety of the patient or his staff were a concern, which was the case sometimes, but it was never to be out of like anger or frustration, and it was never to be for long periods of time. It was only meant to be used as like an emergency situation. He also initiated what was more or less like a buddy system.
for I don't want to say lack of a better phrase because I like that phrase, but I don't know what he officially called it. But basically what he would do is pair up two patients that had some kind of combination of either like a similar diagnosis or similar likes and interests or background or upbringing or life experiences or whatever. And these two patients would either room together or find each other at lunch or just
Any it was kind of like camp, like anytime you were going anywhere or doing anything, it was like find your buddy, you know? And
Gina (26:26)
Mm.
Kathryn (26:28)
he did this because he understood how important empathy is to the human condition. And he realized that if you could show each patient that there were other people out there like them that they could find kind of common ground with, that would significantly improve the patient's quality of life.
he he honestly he really just simply cared about his patients as not just patients but individual people. He was known to take long walks with each patient, one at a time out on the grounds, so that they could be in nature and just walk and talk and get to know each other. He he wanted to know what they needed straight from them. He would privately ask their opinions on how things were being run, how they felt about what was going on at the hospital.
if they needed to disclose anything negative to him.
Even though they did have a well-being department where patients and employees could file official complaints if they were like being mistreated or something was happening, he found that it was easier for a lot of people, obviously so, to do so privately and kind of unofficially. So he would talk to them and get to know them and basically make it clear to them that it was safe to confide in him if there was something going on.
He he wanted to personally help them get better. Like it could be anything from so-and-so up on floor, whatever is mistreating me, to, can we get a different flavor soup in the kitchen? Like whatever they wanted, he wanted to hear them out and do what he could to make things better for them. This was their home and he wanted to make them comfortable. he also, as I said earlier, cared specifically about helping elevate women and their success. So
Part of the reason he wanted the Bowen building, the main building, to be so big and grand and beautiful was because he wanted to appeal to young women who were interested in studying nursing. And he wanted their parents to feel comfortable sending their daughters away to study there. So it operated essentially as a nurse's training camp. the women would work in the hospital and get schooling at the same time for nursing while they were there.
was kind of like a win-win for everyone. Like they got officially, you know, licensed as a nurse, and he got world-class nurses that were trained by his staff, whom he trusted, to work at the actual hospital. He also expanded the grounds from just that main building to create a cottage-style housing system so that patients were no longer housed in these little rooms that.
We have so often compared to prison cells. They actually got their own home, essentially. They were small cottages and there would be a few to a cottage, but everyone had their own space. It truly was a place where you were sent to live. It was more like a retirement home at that point than a
Gina (29:22)
Hm
Kathryn (29:23)
prison type hospital, but still with the medical care that they needed. In the early days of the hospital, before this cottage system was created, the Boeing Building.
Housed not just the nurses who were studying there, but also women who were deemed quote criminally insane. So they lived in the same spaces as the nurses who were going to school there. So a lot of people were like, Well, what the fuck? That's dangerous. They're criminally insane. What are you doing? This sounded very scary and is honestly the root
of a lot of the ghost legends that would come from this place. But gonna call them quote unquote criminals.
These criminals were women who were living in poverty and had to steal food for their children to survive. They were abused women who had fought back and were sent to prison for doing so. They were women yeah, weird. Weird, weird, weird.
Gina (30:18)
Mm. Mm mm mm
Kathryn (30:21)
They were women who had become violent, as a direct result of mistreatment.
At other care facilities, quote unquote care facilities. These were not mindless monsters who just randomly murdered everyone around them, as rumors would have us believe. These were just women who needed help. And a lot of them weren't even like mentally sick. They were just down and out and had nowhere to turn. But those who did have severe psychiatric issues, most of them were as a result of trauma.
Like direct one plus one equals two. He understood that they literally just needed some love and care. He also, and this blows my mind because I didn't even know that this is something that people still don't understand. he also knew the trauma that could be slash is inflicted on a child.
When they are not properly cared for in the early stages of development. So he insisted that if any woman who came to the hospital had children or came to him pregnant, all babies and toddl would stay with their mothers until the age of five. If she was unable to care for them while she was at the facility, like if she had something going on that made her genuinely
I'm gonna say quote unquote an unfit mother. I hate that phrase, but like if it was impossible for her to give them the care they needed, the nursing staff would be put in charge of making sure that they got the care they needed, but they would still stay with the mother as long as was safe for the child. And they would keep the children with their mothers until the age of five. And then at the age of five, either another family or close family friend.
would come and take the child or the child would go into the orphanage system, which he also tried to prevent as much as possible. that's part of why he would keep them until five. It wasn't just developmental. It was to make sure that they had time to find someone who was legally fit to care for this child
Dr. Zeller would eventually retire and ultimately pass away in 1938, but the hospital would continue to run for the next forty-ish years after his death. And eventually it did close down due to underfunding and overcrowding.
But as far as records show, they really did continue on with Dr. Zeller's vision as well and for as long as they could. I found some interviews with former employees that worked there from like the 50s to 70s-ish, and they all seemed like really kind people who genuinely cared for the patients, and they cared about what they were doing and the impact they were having. And they seemed to leave a legacy behind that really was very positive. But
The legacy that the hospital was left with would be very different. And it really was simply because the Bowen building was this large looming limestone building. Like it just had kind of this eerie aura about it. It was this ominous and intimidating old hospital. Classic haunted hospital vibes. And that's like a very creepy, spooky thing. So over the years.
This hospital that really did great things and had great people and truly cared about everyone in it slowly got this reputation as this like spooky, creepy place where bad things happened and you know, the people
Gina (33:51)
Mm.
Kathryn (33:51)
were sick and awful and blah blah blah blah. So while I was growing up, the stories of this place were not of love and empathy. It was of like trapped spirits desperate to get out and stories of violence and blah blah blah, all that kind of stuff.
And one of the stories in particular is the story of the woman in white. We have a woman in white.
Gina (34:12)
huh.
Kathryn (34:13)
the woman in white is said to gaze out the window of what was locally referred to as the lobotomy room. More on this later. She would gaze out across the
The grounds longing to be free. And if you dared to go inside, she just might attach herself to you and possess you so she could live your life instead of the one she was imprisoned to have in the hospital. So this is one of those stories that we would go and we would look in all the windows searching for the woman in white. I couldn't definitively trace where the legend of the woman in white came from, but
Based on just like context clues and things other people said and just my own suspicion based on what were the prominent stories of this hospital. My guess is it was born out of the story of a woman named Rhoda Derry.
I'm going to share her story now, and it is a true story. And I found it really heartbreaking and tragic. So this is where I wanna give that content warning that I mentioned. There is some extremely graphic depictions of self-inflicted harm that was due to severe mistreatment at a different hospital, not this one.
Rhoda was said to be a beautiful young woman who, quote, lost her mind to love when, as the story goes, her mother objected to her marrying the man that she was engaged to and madly in love with. She started lashing out and acting all crazy, quote unquote. And the local newspaper described it as, quote, all at once, poor Rhodie changed from a merry girl to a raving maniac. All because
She couldn't get married. Yeah. She just
Gina (35:56)
Wow. All right. Okay.
Kathryn (35:59)
absolutely went bonkers, so we had to toss her away forever.
Gina (36:03)
Nice that it was reported in the paper as well. That's great. Okay.
Kathryn (36:06)
Yep. Yeah.
So she was sent away to a different psychiatric hospital. I believe she was sent to Jacksonville. at least part of the time. She kind of bounced around a little bit. So I'm pretty sure she was in the same place that Elizabeth was. and she once she was sent away to
psychiatric facilities. She was kept in a Utica cage most of her life. And did you talk about Utica cages in your episode? Do you know what that is? Okay.
Gina (36:30)
What's a yu no, what's a what's a Utica cage?
Kathryn (36:33)
It is horrendous. It is a bed, quote unquote. An adult sized bed, but with a cage on top of it. It looks like it looks
Gina (36:43)
mm.
Kathryn (36:44)
like a baby crib, but half the height. Like you can literally lay down and that's it. You can't even roll over.
Imagine like a coffin, but it's a cage. And that is where she was kept. For always. She was left there. Yeah. And this and this was
Gina (36:55)
And how long was she in there? my god. Jesus.
Kathryn (37:02)
a common practice. This was a thing that was done to people because she was very quote unquote violent and out of control and dangerous, etc., etc. So she was just kept in there and she would get like food and stuff. Technically, she was just left there to rot. And
Sorry, this is the graphic part. As a result of her mistreatment and her already existing psychiatric issues, she did gouge out her own eyes. Yeah,
Gina (37:33)
Ooh, okay.
Kathryn (37:35)
I'm sorry. there is no content warning that I can give that would like encompass how awful that is.
Gina (37:42)
Yep,
Kathryn (37:43)
And she
this is also bad, I'm sorry, but she over the years like gnashed her teeth so bad that she eventually like ground them down to nothing. everyone viewed this as like, my God, she was so heartbroken that she went crazy. And that was part of it. Like she was experiencing a lot of depression and all of that as a result of just life experiences.
But it also is reported in her official file that she and her mother repeatedly claimed that witches were out to harm them and they could see them like flying around all over the place. And there were stories of her mother like running around the house, literally shooting her gun at the witches that were trying to get her, but like no one could see anything. So just based on these context clues and
everything that was going on and the era in which we are and the way that she was acting and all of these things, we can, use our big girl brains and realize that they were probably suffering from some type of genetic psychosis.
Dr. Zeller heard about her case and
heard how she was being treated. And he immediately was like, okay, she's not being cared for the way she needs to be. She needs to come here right away. So he had her officially transferred to his hospital.
And the first thing they did was give her a bath, which she had not had in God knows how long, probably never. And
Gina (39:09)
Mm.
Kathryn (39:11)
they like treated her with for all of the wounds and issues that she had, And they also gave her a bed with a real mattress that wasn't metal or a cage. And immediately.
Literally the moment she got to the hospital, she settled down and stopped lashing out. some stories even say that when she laid in the bed for the first time, she smiled for the first time in decades. could
be a rumor. I certainly believe it. If she could still smile, like
that is a reality. It's possible that she wasn't even able to. But the point is, like, they noticed an immediate difference in her. Like she was.
Certainly not cured. She endured an amount of trauma and a type of trauma that would always be with her. But she was comfortable finally after four decades. And she would pass away shortly after being transferred to the hospital. Just natural causes. Considering everything that happened to her, she lived a pretty long life. She was around 70 years old at this point.
Gina (40:10)
Mm.
Kathryn (40:13)
After her funeral, Dr. Zeller said.
Quote, the nurses who cared for her in life were at the side of the grave when the last honors were being paid to her. When they returned to their duties, instead of feeling a great burden had finally been lifted off their hands, all were crying. The institution is better for having cared for her.
Gina (40:34)
my heart.
Kathryn (40:36)
literally gonna cry. Like this is how he like thought of that. I'm literally I need a moment.
Gina (40:39)
Yeah.
Kathryn (40:40)
Cry break. Wine break.
Gina (40:41)
Drink
Kathryn (40:45)
God, Anna two? And a sip? Yeah.
Gina (40:45)
and a one and a two and a cry and drink
Kathryn (40:49)
So I will say this. I do believe that there is a woman in white who haunts this hospital. Partially just for funsies, partially because
Gina (40:58)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (40:59)
I it could be Rhoda. I like to think it's Rhoda. Not because it's a malevolent, spooky, torturous spirit that wants to steal your life.
But I believe that if it is her, it's likely that she wanted to stay, not because she was trapped, but just because this was the place that gave her genuine love and care and comfort for the first time ever in her life, right before she died. Why would you not want to stay? I would, if I were her.
Gina (41:27)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (41:28)
So I do believe in the woman in white. Don't believe that she's trying to take her life. Another famous story takes place in the cemetery.
That is on the grounds. The cemetery was reserved for patients who either didn't have any family or did have family who didn't want to claim them because they were quote unquote crazy. So the hospital claimed them as their own and they would be buried and have a proper funeral. Everyone would attend, patients, staff, everybody would come and pay their last respects as they buried anyone who died there.
This story is about a man named Manuel A. Bookbinder, aka old book.
I know, isn't that so cute? I love it. What a great name.
Gina (42:12)
Wow. I
you know what else while we're on the topic of ranking things, we need to rank the names we have heard in this
Kathryn (42:19)
Yeah.
Gina (42:20)
pod, 'cause that might just be the new number one.
Kathryn (42:23)
This is my new favorite. This is my number one. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Gina (42:26)
Manny Bookbinder? That's crazy. That's great. Wow.
Kathryn (42:29)
And they called him old book.
So
Old Book was a patient who worked for the burial crew while he was there. And just as a quick aside, I didn't mention it earlier. This was another thing that Dr. Zeller did. He wanted to give his patients a sense of purpose. those who were physically able would help out around the hospital as part of their official treatment. So, for example, those who enjoyed cooking would help out in the kitchen. Those who enjoyed gardening would be part of the landscaping trick crew, blah, blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera.
And they got to choose what they did. This wasn't forced labor. Nobody was forced to work. It was just like, if this is a thing that would make you happy, do it, you know? So old Book really enjoyed like being outdoors and physical labor and all this. So he was part of the crew that would help out during burials. Old Book was unable to speak. So before coming to the hospital, people assumed he was just stupid.
For lack of a better phrase, he didn't understand anything, he was dumb, blah, blah, blah. But this was not even remotely the case. He was one of the most empathetic and emotionally intelligent people at the hospital. The staff just absolutely loved him. Every time they had a funeral for one of their patients, old Book would stay behind long after the funeral was over. Everyone left.
The body was buried and he would just lean against an old elm tree on the property and quietly cry for his fellow patient who had no one to cry for them. I know, I literally can't with this.
Gina (44:01)
my god.
Kathryn (44:04)
So when old Book died, Dr. Zeller himself claims that he and numerous other patients and staff saw the apparition of their beloved gravedigger.
Leaning against the elm tree and quietly crying at his own funeral.
In fact, Dr. Zeller had numerous strange experiences while he was working at the hospital that he published in this short book called Befriending the Bereft, where he recounted a lot of his experiences that
I don't know if he I didn't have time to read this. I found out about this book about three hours ago. I'm very sad that I didn't see it until recently because I would have loved to read it.
So like God only knows what other I wanna say God only knows exactly what other experiences he's had, because you can know if you read this book. Anyway. So God knows yeah, it's like super accessible online, but we'll never find out, I guess. It's a mystery. I don't know. Who's to say?
Gina (44:56)
God knows what he says in there. Who the f
Kathryn (45:07)
All of this is to say the connotation these two and many other stories about this hospital have were always
really sinister. There was always a really dark and negative spin on everything. A man weeping in a cemetery, hello, that's terrifying, you know.
Gina (45:24)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (45:25)
But when you know the story of the actual place and you understand the people who were there and who were trying to help and what their goal was and what they were doing, it's honestly not that sinister at all. It's really just a place that had such love and care and empathy, and the energy was so strong around there that, yeah, like I said with the woman in white, why would you not want to stick around? This was a great place to be.
Unfortunately, part of the reason it does have such a sinister reputation is because in the early 2000s it was visited by a famous ghost hunting crew with a famous ghost hunting show.
Gina (46:03)
Mm.
Kathryn (46:03)
And they
just made it out to be the scary, demonic, awful, torturous place, which is the complete opposite of everything it was and what they truly achieved while they were in operation. And of course, local teenagers like myself didn't help by spreading these rumors without fact checking anything. My bad. I am sorry. Do regret this. I didn't know.
The research for this episode has been extremely validating to me personally because when I did visit the Bowen building for that article, sorry, that writicle. I'm gonna call it that from now on. When I was when I was working on that writicle in college, I got
really good vibes while I was on this tour. I didn't it didn't feel heavy or sinister or anything like that. It felt really bright and lovely.
But there were several rooms that we went into that felt I'm gonna say like thicker. I feel like I've used that phrase a lot lately, but just like the energy felt bigger. my ears would pop. It was almost like that weird claustrophobic feeling you get when you're just like in a spot that has a lot of paranormal energy. It wasn't the whole building, not everywhere felt that way.
But there were specific rooms that did. And when I was transcribing my recording, I realized every time we were in one of those rooms where I had that feeling, the recorder would get staticky. You would hear whispers. There like was activity in the room. Like it truly was a one-to-one. Everywhere I felt it, you could hear it on the recording. Now I am gonna share that one clip now.
Everything else that I just described, I'm gonna do my best to pluck all of them out in individual recordings. If not, they'll all be in one and you'll have to find them. That will be posted on Patreon for all of you to hear. But I am gonna play that one recording now. And I just wanna give some additional context before I play it for you, so you like understand what's going on and what you hear. We were told.
On this tour, which I no longer believe, more on that
in a second, but we were told that the room we were coming out of was the lobotomy room. This likely wasn't the case because this was the building where the nurses stayed, and there really weren't any, I don't think there were any procedures done in this building at all. There was a lot of debate whether lobotomies were actually performed at this hospital.
It's possible they were in the later years because I do unfortunately have to say that a lot of the records were destroyed when the hospital closed down in the 70s. Based on Dr. Zeller's principles, we are confident, and I don't even want to say just based on his principles, based on his principles, but also based on the fact that lobotomies weren't really a thing until like the 30s and 40s.
long after he was gone, he didn't perform any. but but we officially do not know for sure. So this room was thought locally to be the lobotomy room and outside of the room there was this don't know what you'd call them. It was like you know in malls when they close for the evening, those like chain garage doors that they pull down?
Gina (49:21)
Mm, mm.
Kathryn (49:22)
It was that.
Per the tour guide, that was a cage that they would pull down in case one of the hospital patients escaped the lobotomy room.
That is likely not the case. Based on how those doors were used throughout the years, it was more likely a spot where the nurses would disinfect after a day of work before they went back to their own quarters.
that was the context that we had on this tour
so in this recording, what is happening is I walked out of that room, followed by the tour guide, and my two friends were behind me. And as just a little ha ha, she was like, Now I'm gonna show you something, you know, whatever. And she pulls down that garage cage thing. And my one friend who was super afraid of ghosts made like a god.
no type face. So you hear me laugh and say like, don't worry, like we'll let you out. And then we were all laughing and the tour guide said something else. And then you hear a whisper.
you hear it?
Gina (50:39)
Trapped? We're trapped?
Kathryn (50:41)
Yeah, that's what I hear. Yes.
Gina (50:43)
my fucking god, that's terrifying!
Kathryn (50:46)
Yes. Yeah, it's so clear, isn't it? Do you want to hear it again? It kind of snuck up. Mm? Yeah.
Gina (50:50)
Yes, please. 'Cause it sounds like just a person. Like a person is just there whispering.
Kathryn (50:55)
Let me play it again.
I know, it's so clear.
Gina (50:59)
Okay, tell me who you think that was. Because if it's not, the yeah.
Kathryn (51:03)
So, so yes.
So that's a great question. I so one thing I don't know if I said This lobotomy room is the room where people see in the window the woman in white. So when I first heard this, I was like, my God, it's her. It's a woman in white. Blah, blah, blah, blah. So sinister, like she has us trapped, all these things. And
I now, knowing what I know, I think it still could be her.
but I'm like reframing the message. I included this in my writical that I wrote. And
Gina (51:36)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (51:36)
I literally ended with some sinister, like, whether she's talking about my friends or the spirits at the hospital, we will never know. Like I made it very dramatic.
But now I'm wondering if it was the woman in white. She does very clearly say either like you are some people here, you are trapped, they are trapped, we are trapped. Like some the word trapped is on this recording. And I'm wondering if that is what she says, but it is within the context of astonishment. Like that is not a thing that happens here.
What are you doing? Why are you trapping them? Do you know what I mean? Like, my
Gina (52:12)
Mm mm Yeah.
Kathryn (52:16)
God, they're trapped. Like help them get out. Why are you doing this? That's how I am interpreting it now with my current knowledge.
Gina (52:25)
Especially if it was the room 'cause you said it w it was potentially the room where nurses would what what did you say that they did in the room again?
Kathryn (52:33)
So
It's basically like a prep space for people, like,
Gina (52:36)
Prep space, okay.
Kathryn (52:37)
yeah, like something like that. Like when because it was also by a set of stairs. So it's
Totally possible that the nurses would be out in like the exam rooms and on the other floors working with the patients one-on-one, and then they'd come up through those stairs, stop in this caged area, and like hose down and basically like
a shower space so that they didn't contaminate their own personal quarters when they got onto that floor. Mm-hmm.
Gina (53:02)
Okay, that makes sense. Because I was thinking,
if, especially if you see someone trapped in a room where there should absolutely be well, I mean there shouldn't be any trapping anyway.
Kathryn (53:10)
Right.
Gina (53:10)
But like that has nothing to do with restraints or confinement or really like active treatment in
Kathryn (53:16)
Mm-hmm.
Gina (53:17)
any way. It's like the
the work that goes on around the treatment that someone would be like,
Kathryn (53:20)
Right.
Gina (53:20)
someone's trapped. And also it additionally makes sense because if this was the kind of environment
where Zeller was so
Like if something is going on, say something about it. Like you need to be like feel free to come
Kathryn (53:31)
Yeah, yes.
Gina (53:33)
to us and tell us what's going on. It makes sense that the woman in white would be like, they're trapped. Someone needs to help them, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
Kathryn (53:37)
my god, Dr. Zeller, someone get them. Yeah, exactly.
Yes. and remember, I'm sitting alone in my studio apartment, drunk on Moscato, the first time I heard this. So this was very alarming to me, okay? But
Gina (53:46)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (53:48)
now with these fresh eyes, I'm like, my God, that probably was a patient looking
out for us, you know? just way better vibes than when I first did it.
Anyway, so I just to quick wrap up, a few of the buildings on the ground are still standing. Unfortunately, I am so heartbroken to say the Bowen building was demolished in 2017. they
Sorry, a little drunk now. I'm about to start talking mad
Gina (54:14)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (54:15)
shit. Basically, long story short, the guy who ran Save the Bowen is currently in prison for embezzlement and money fraud. so essentially
Gina (54:26)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (54:29)
all the money, everyone, including my poor college self, donated to help save this building that we all loved so very much.
He didn't put toward the building at all. And he is currently in prison for embezzling hundreds of thousands of dollars. So fuck that guy. It makes me so sad.
I I was heartbroken when I learned they took this building down. I I was so sad for I'm still sad about this, but
Even though the big beautiful building isn't there, the grounds still are, and other structures on the grounds are still there. And it is under new ownership of a different organization that does seem to be working on the preservation of the site, or at least what's left. So you can still book a historical tour of this place. and also I believe a paranormal tour. You can, it is still they do still acknowledge like the paranormal activity on the other.
locations throughout the grounds. I'm unfamiliar with whoever owns it now, so I'm not gonna like promote or not promote whoever it is. but I do want the remaining structures to not go away. So I am going to suggest that whoever can make their way out to Bartonville do visit this place. It's really the only reason anyone needs to go to Bartonville. So if you're passing
Gina (55:46)
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn (55:46)
through central Illinois, even though the Bowen building isn't there, I do
recommend a stop just to check out the grounds. The grounds are still really well, the grounds aren't that pretty, but worth worth visiting. I'm just so sad.
Gina (55:59)
I would love to visit.
Kathryn (56:01)
I'm so sad the the
Bowen's not there anymore. But
Gina (56:04)
Yeah.
Kathryn (56:05)
we did our best to save her.
Gina (56:06)
Damn, I love this story so much. This feels so nice. I'm so happy
Kathryn (56:09)
we do, isn't this so good? I know.
Gina (56:12)
that we are bringing Hospitals Month to a close on such a positive, patient and care-focused note.
And I
Kathryn (56:20)
Me too.
Gina (56:21)
also did not realize how huge of a role women played in mental health care in America. And I love that I know that now.
Kathryn (56:26)
Me either.
too. What a great factoid. I will not ever
Gina (56:33)
Right.
Kathryn (56:33)
shut up about that the rest of my life. Yeah.
Gina (56:36)
Yeah, and now I
know Bookbinder is a last name that people have.
Kathryn (56:39)
Girl, I didn't change my last name when I married Phil, but I might change it now. That's a great name.
Gina (56:45)
Kathryn Bookbinder.
Kathryn (56:47)
my god, what a great name.
What about you? Do
you have anything
to close us out? End of our birthday month?
Gina (56:54)
I do
I do I have a good old fashioned scary fucking story.
Kathryn (57:00)
Good.
Gina (57:00)
So this is called The Window. And it's cred by a guy named Josh H. Credit to Josh H, whoever that is.
Kathryn (57:08)
All right, shout out Josh H.
Gina (57:10)
In my head I was like Joshua hookbinder, but that's probably not what it is.
Kathryn (57:14)
Well now I'm like,
okay, Josh H. Josh ends with H. So is it Josh H or is it just Josh?
Gina (57:23)
Hey, the name is Josh
Kathryn (57:27)
Ha ha ha
Gina (57:30)
Beautiful. Alright, story goes. I was in my bedroom, doing the typical at-home teenager thing, staying up late, digging around the depths of the internet, and generally not paying attention to anything other than what was on my monitor. It was early in the morning, around two o'clock, and everyone in my house was asleep but me. The room was nice and warm, despite it being the dead of winter, since we had the windows replaced last week.
We had been losing a lot of heat, especially in my bedroom, through some old storm windows, but the bitter cold was now kept outside. I don't remember what I was doing. I think in the terror that has since consumed me, I must have forgotten. But I heard a noise at my window. Not the sound of a bug flying into it, or the shrubs brushing against it. No, this was an odd noise, a thumping sound, something I had never heard before.
I didn't think anything of it initially. Whether that was because I genuinely believed it was nothing, or because I didn't want to find out what it was, I can't say. But I sat there for a moment and just listened to it. It was distinctly rhythmic. Thump, thump, thump. It only lasted fifteen seconds or so, and then it stopped. I shuddered, but I shrugged it off and
After spending another hour or two browsing and consciously not looking towards the window, I turned my computer off and fell into an uneasy but uneventful sleep. This morning, after the sun had been up for a few hours and things that go bump in the night were doing whatever they do during daylight hours, I walked to my window and spent a few minutes trying to replicate the sound I had heard. I tapped the window, bumped it with some soft objects, even locked and unlocked it,
But I couldn't for the life of me figure out what had made that sound. Nothing I did was even close. I figured that the event had been a fluke and the day was normal until this evening. My dad arrived home from work at the usual time and decided that the house was too stuffy. So he came into my room and went to open the window. We're in Texas, so winter evenings are sometimes very comfortable, as was the case today.
My dad forgot to unlock the window before trying to open it, and when he pulled up, it produced the same noise I heard last night.
Kathryn (59:52)
Hmm.
Gina (59:53)
my window only has handles on the inside.
Kathryn (59:59)
no
Gina (1:00:01)
Yes. Good old fashioned scary story.
Kathryn (1:00:05)
my god.
Gina (1:00:07)
Terrifying, isn't it?
Kathryn (1:00:08)
my god, I hate that. That's so scary.
Gina (1:00:12)
Mm-hmm. I'm so sorry.
Kathryn (1:00:14)
Ew.
Gina (1:00:16)
I did try to find I tried to find something birthday themed and I tried to find something themed around the number one hundred. And I couldn't find anything in those categories that I wanted to read on the podcast. So I picked this. Did not go well at all.
Kathryn (1:00:25)
Okay. I was gonna say s seems like that did not go well. my god.
Gina (1:00:34)
but yeah.
Kathryn (1:00:35)
Hey, that's awful.
Gina (1:00:38)
Yeah, super terrifying. So sorry that I did that to you, but also not sorry at all. happy 100th episode to us, happy birthday to you, happy birthday to us. If you have a story you would like heard at the end of the podcast episode, feel free to send it to iscreamyouscreampod@gmail.com. If you simply can't wait for the first episode of Circus Month, it is available now on our Patreon page.
Kathryn (1:00:59)
Yay!
Gina (1:01:00)
Link is in the show notes if you want to join us.
If you are enjoying the podcast, it would be amazing if you could leave us a rating or a review wherever you are listening.
Huge shout out to Clo Bear Money Coach. Thank you so much for sponsoring today's episode. And that's all we have for you guys today. So until next time, little spoons, keep it cool.
Kathryn (1:01:20)
And keep it creepy.
